T-Mac & Yao: the new Shaq and kobe??? so the Big sleep is officially a rocket!! I saw this question proposed at NBA.com I was wonderin what everyone thought. T-Mac is a better player than Kobe no doubt but Yao hasn't shown that he can be like Shaq yet. He's a enourmous human being though and only seems to get better since he's been in the league. I wouldnt rule it out. ONe thing that has to happen if the ROckets are to take the next step is T-mac has to realize he has some serious help now and not only doesnt have to carry the team. He has to realize that if Yao takes the individual next step and becomes a superstar big man, than T-mac is the second option and needs to worry more about feeding the wall than looking for his own shots. T-mac, like kobe will be there for the clutch shots and to take over games when Yao is struggling or in foul trouble.
McGrady is nowhere near Kobe's league. T-Mac puts up good numbers because he has no other player to pass it to, so his stats are shot up. Put him with Yao or Shaq and his "game" won't be so impressive. Look at how he performed with Carter. McGrady is like Iverson...and as for Kobe, his stats are nearly the same, yet he's had Shaq on his team for his whole career, yet in the 2002-2003 season...he was close to beating McGrady for the scoring title. If Kobe played for the Magic and McGrady was on the Lakers with Shaq, Kobe would be putting in 36 ppg and McGrady would have around 20. McGrady is overrated compared to Kobe Bryant...and as far as Shaq and Yao go, Yao has an edge over Shaq, and it's called age. He's got a better shot, but that won't be winning games. Shaq/Kobe will always be remembered as one of the most dominating duos in the history of the league, along with Magic/Kareem, and Jordan/Pippen. McGrady/Yao? I don't think they will even be able to work together, let alone be successful...but I guess we'll see soon enough.
uh......no If anything Kobe's overrated BECAUSE he plays with shaq. are you KIDDING me?? you think Kobe would put up those numbers on ANY other team! let me explain something. when teams play the lakers, their NUMBER 1 concern is slowing down shaq! kobe rarely faces a double team and when he does he struggles. Heck, Paul Pierce does better against the double team than kobe does. Kobe will put up numbers like Pierce or even Michael Redd when Shaq is gone because Teams can focus entirly on stopping him. You shouldnt need me to tell you that. Youve whatched the lakers. Kobe gets whatever he wants. but look what happens when I team knows how to pay attention to him and shaq at once (see: 2004 NBA finals) Meanwhile McGrady has averaged 30 points a game over the last two seasons and he was the Magics ONLY scoring threat. You think teams have come in to orlando saying "gee we gotta stop Shawn KEMP!!!" Yao will only help Mcgrady if Tracy can pass the rock more. He may score less points but he'll have a higher fg% and he'll certainly win more games. But i guess I shouldnt even be trying with you. you have a sig banner that puts Kobe in the same league as MICHAEL JORDAN
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post">McGrady is nowhere near Kobe's league. T-Mac puts up good numbers because he has no other player to pass it to, so his stats are shot up. Put him with Yao or Shaq and his "game" won't be so impressive. Look at how he performed with Carter. McGrady is like Iverson...and as for Kobe, his stats are nearly the same, yet he's had Shaq on his team for his whole career, yet in the 2002-2003 season...he was close to beating McGrady for the scoring title. If Kobe played for the Magic and McGrady was on the Lakers with Shaq, Kobe would be putting in 36 ppg and McGrady would have around 20. McGrady is overrated compared to Kobe Bryant...and as far as Shaq and Yao go, Yao has an edge over Shaq, and it's called age. He's got a better shot, but that won't be winning games. Shaq/Kobe will always be remembered as one of the most dominating duos in the history of the league, along with Magic/Kareem, and Jordan/Pippen. McGrady/Yao? I don't think they will even be able to work together, let alone be successful...but I guess we'll see soon enough.</div> mcgrady is the next best thing to kobe, and can very well be looked at as better than kobe next year if his team can win and kobe can't do it by himself... kobe had his opportunity to prove his game w/out shaq last year, and he wasn't averaging close to 36 points. Kobe is not nearly as good a scorer as tmac, he's more clutch than tmac, and plays better D, but he can be contained on the offensive end, tmac cannot. Kobe benefitted hugely from shaq, and mcgrady now has that opportunity w/ yao. Although mcgrady won't benefit as much as kobe because yao is not as dominant as shaq. My bet is, next year, people will be saying Tmac is the best 2-guard... but from what has been shown/proven, Kobe is the better of the two right now.
Whoa, he didn't prove he was good enough without Shaq? Does anyone remember his performance in the 2002-2003 season, when he scored 9 or 10 straight 40+ point games? Sounds like McGrady? No...nobody else on the team to score...except Kobe was scoring much more points. And scoring isn't all they do, anyways. Kobe obviously has better defense...nobody can argue about that. As for the Finals this year, Kobe's poor performance (which wasn't that bad) came about because guys weren't playing the triangle correctly (cough*MalonePayton*cough) and Shaq felt as if he could take over...when actually, Wallace was killing him in the paint as far as crashing the boards, and even in the last game, he was scoring. The AMAZING Shaq has no defense...ask Rip or Billups, who had about 300 layups on him in the series. Kobe did everything for the Lakers, yet he doesn't get the credit he deserves. It'll all show next year...
shaq has no defense........ oh yea he's worse than derek fisher. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! !! Kobe cost the lakers that series. Shaq WAS dominating. remember game 4 when Shaq was 36 and 20 and Kobe was 8 for 25?? the lakers onlly lost that game by 8. if Kobe just gives up 7 or 8 or (heaven forbid) 10 of those precious CHUCKS to Shaq than shaq scores another 8-10 points NO QUESTION and the lakers win that game. thats just the beginning. Oh yea kobe proved him self without Shaq in 02-03. he led the lakers to a 2-10 start!!! INCREDIBLE
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting olskoolFunktitude:</div><div class="quote_post">shaq has no defense........ oh yea he's worse than derek fisher. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! !! Kobe cost the lakers that series. Shaq WAS dominating. remember game 4 when Shaq was 36 and 20 and Kobe was 8 for 25?? the lakers onlly lost that game by 8. if Kobe just gives up 7 or 8 or (heaven forbid) 10 of those precious CHUCKS to Shaq than shaq scores another 8-10 points NO QUESTION and the lakers win that game. thats just the beginning. Oh yea kobe proved him self without Shaq in 02-03. he led the lakers to a 2-10 start!!! INCREDIBLE</div> Oh yea mcgrady proved himself without anyone in 03-04. He led the Magic to a 0-18 start!!! INCREDIBLE Do some research...the Magic lost their first game against the Lakers, and they didn't even have Kobe. McGrady had...35 points. In the second game, Kobe was available, and the Magic still lost. McGrady had 37 points in 48 minutes, while Kobe played 44 minutes and put in 38 on McGrady, who played pretty much the whole game. Man...that's crazy...since Shaq always somehow scores all the points and wins them the game, yet Kobe saves them with clutch shots that Shaq can't shoot, because...well...he can't shoot. Thanks to Yao being available to McGrady...maybe he can lead the league in rebounds now, having to pull down all the offensive boards he'll need to for the Rockets to be successful.
wow. u really havent done your homework have you? McGrady had a much better fg% this year than Kobe! and that was during a MISERABLE season by the magic where the defense had NO one to worry about but TMAC!! yea the magic had a terrible year. and the year before they made the playoffs. kobe could never get the lakers into the playoffs with the cast Mcgrady had to work with that year. Mcgradys just plain better. how many more times does he have to prove it?
Here goes another Kobe vs T-Mac dispute but anyways it depends on Yao. If Yao can get into shape where he can play 38 mpg without looking like he'll pass out then they have a chance at being like another version of Shaq and Kobe. Tracy will do his thing and Yao has to at least be a 20 and 10 guy this coming season if they wanna be real serious contenders.
McGrady's FG% - .417 FT% - .796 MPG - 39.9 min Kobe's FG% - .438 FT% - .852 MPG - 37.6 min I did my homework.
both are great players in their own right... as of right now though, I believe Kobe's game is more developed than Tmac's, while Tmac's is less refined (although both palyers have tons of raw talent no doubt)... of course this is because Kobe has been playing on the Lakers w/ Phil, while Tmac's by himself in Orlando, as far as poential/raw skill goes, who knows if Tmac's better or Kobe's better, but as far as being an all around team player, than Kobe's more developed right now... ie: when Jordan first acme in the league, no one could argue he wasn't a good player, but not until he grew older/more experienced (though he lost some of his flight) he was a complete dominant player that led the bulls to their championships.
Look, I see where the defense would focus on McGrady like you said...that's obvious. But...when you try and compare his stats to Kobe's this year, you just can't. Kobe played with a loser PG that attempted to take over the whole team, a PF that was injured half of the season (ironically, the second half, where Kobe performed better), and a bench that wasn't hitting any shots all year long. Kobe had the defense pulled towards him by Payton, and this was because GP was running the triangle incorrectly and cutting to the basket in the wrong direction. The screens set for McGrady are great...but anyone that knows anything about basketball will tell you that the Lakers screens set for Kobe were weak and collapsable, leading to the constant double teams and a wide open shot for George for three, or a Malone jumper, which everyone knows that their shots rarely fell for them when they were open. McGrady wasn't the only player in the league suffering from smothering defenses. Also, it looks to me that McGrady didn't have trouble scoring in games, so why was he shooting so poorly? Maybe because he got the ball constantly, and that is why the Magic lost so many games. Ewing was expected to carry the Knicks to a ring, just like Iverson and McGrady are today...but it never happened for him, and it won't happen for these two because they can't. If Kobe is still contibuting to the team with no help, and even with a scoring machine in the paint like Shaq and he's still putting in 24 ppg, then that's what I call a great season. I'm not saying McGrady sucks...I'm just saying he is nowhere near Kobe when it comes to ability, success, and determination. You can just see it in T-Mac's eyes...he doesn't want it enough. He would've play until he had IV's stuck in his arm for dehydration and exhaustion. He wouldn't fly back and forth halfway across the country to attend two events in the same day. It's just that everytime I try and give Kobe some credit, or make it obvious, people come along and kill him off like he's nothing without Shaq...but it's not true at all.
Kobe has played with the most dominating force in NBA history all his career, he has never been put in a situation where he has to carry a team for a full season. People don't realise how different It is when all the defensive pressure is on you every single minute of every game. Teams worry about Shaq far more than Kobe. I would expect Kobe to shoot around 40% If he was in the situation Mvgrady has been stuck in the last 4 seasons. Kobe may be better than Mcgrady but it is very close, to say Kobe is on another level is very stupid and It's always the groupies who state this. Kobe needs to prove he can win and put up the numbers without Shaq as so far Mcgrady has carried a team with no talent to the post season 3 times. As I said in another thread, Mcgrady is now entering the Kobe Bryant world...the world of playing with a big man. You will be surprised how different and easier It is playing with a very good big man. To answer the orginal question, the Yao/Mcgrady duo will take a few years to take into effect in terms of winning a title but with the right guys around them I see no reason why they can't win quite a few titles togeather.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post">McGrady's FG% - .417 FT% - .796 MPG - 39.9 min Kobe's FG% - .438 FT% - .852 MPG - 37.6 min I did my homework.</div> one has to understand that kobes field goal percentage is also a bi-product of having a guy in the post who demands double and tripple teams. that greatly increases the quality of the shots kobe took. kobes fg % would have been even worse last year (self-inflicted off court issues) without the presence of karl malone or gary payton.
I think a Yao T-Mac duo will make some noise,but the question is how will T-Mac play with Yao,he has to realize that Yao needs to get his shots two,but a second player is what T-Mac always wanted in Orlando.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">anyways. Kobe obviously has better defense.</div> You can't necessarily say that. When your McGrady and TRYING to get your team involved, and still managed to try and score 35-Points just so your team can at LEAST have a CHANCE of winning, I don't think you will have much left energy to play defense. Let’s face it McGrady is no Rip Hamilton. But for NOW in a way we can say that Kobe is a better defender, but you still have to wait and see what McGrady can really do on the defensive end before anybody tries to exaggerate this matter. Well as for the McGrady and Yao being the next Kobe and Shaq. I think time will tell. For Kobe and McGrady case, it's arguable but Shaq and Yao. That's a no-brainer, Yao is obviously not in Shaq's league, but since Yao and McGrady are both young, they have the potential to be the next Kobe and Shaq, or quite possibly better than Kobe and Shaq. Personally, I believe Shaq and Kobe could have compliment each other a little better, they're chemistry was okay, but it could have been a little better. Depending on how McGrady and Yao chemistry works out, they can quite possible surpass Kobe and Shaq dominance quicker than we think.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post">Whoa, he didn't prove he was good enough without Shaq? Does anyone remember his performance in the 2002-2003 season, when he scored 9 or 10 straight 40+ point games? Sounds like McGrady? No...nobody else on the team to score...except Kobe was scoring much more points. And scoring isn't all they do, anyways. Kobe obviously has better defense...nobody can argue about that. As for the Finals this year, Kobe's poor performance (which wasn't that bad) came about because guys weren't playing the triangle correctly (cough*MalonePayton*cough) and Shaq felt as if he could take over...when actually, Wallace was killing him in the paint as far as crashing the boards, and even in the last game, he was scoring. The AMAZING Shaq has no defense...ask Rip or Billups, who had about 300 layups on him in the series. Kobe did everything for the Lakers, yet he doesn't get the credit he deserves. It'll all show next year...</div> During that streak you are talking about, Kobe most of those games w/ 9 straight 40 point performances, 6 of them were w/ shaq on the floor, and 10 of the 13 games w/ 35+ point performance were w/ shaq... and towards the end (the last 3-5 games or so) he was forcing himself to score 40 points and he got much heat from it because he was just worried about himself extending his streak... he forced up two or three shots in a matter of seconds versus seattle when his streak ended cuz he only had 34 points... and shaq definitely was not the reason the lakers lost... the lakers lost as a team, but if you had to pinpoint it on one of the two big superstars on that team, everyone, except you people who wanna get in bed w/ kobe, would point their fingers at kobe, and rightfully so.
Okay just one more thing. Some of you guys are acting like McGrady is the only guy getting double teamed...wrong. Does anyone actually watch the games? Having NBA TV, I get to see all of the games, and each time I watch McGrady, he's scoring most of his points from creating his own shot one-on-one, or from a three pointer that he is left wide open for. Sure, he's got a great shot and can hit threes, and he gets on a streak from it...that's why he's racking up all the points. Kobe, on the other hand, relies on his mid-range jumpers, leaners, and drives...and is everyone forgetting where Shaq is? He's in the paint...where Kobe loves to drive and penetrate. If Shaq is getting triple teamed like everyone says, then so is Kobe when he drives. When Shaq gets the ball, even if he's doubled or tripled, there's a 90% chance that he will take it up himself and try and draw the foul, NOT pass back out to Kobe...and it's because he can do that because he's huge. You can't say that Shaq is the one that creates an opening for Kobe, because he doesn't pass back out. The only time I see Shaq pass is on a cut, where he'll throw it behind him as a backdoor, or an alley oop. Kobe works harder than McGrady and that's a proven fact... As far as the Magic go, they have pure shooters that can shoot when given the opportunity. People are saying that all of the focus (defensively) is on McGrady, but that's not true. If that was the case, he'd be leading the league in assists, and the Magic would be in the playoffs. Howard, Lue, Gooden, Gaines...all of these guys are able to hit a shot wide open. So which is it...T-Mac is selfish and won't pass when he is triple teamed, or he's not really being doubled or tripled as much as everyone says? Here's what I find funny about all the replies so far. Almost everyone is "correcting me" and saying that my statements can't really be proven facts or are inappropriate to say, but then these guys go on and say, "As of NOW Kobe is better" and "McGrady may not be as good, but he is close" and whatever else...meaning that all of my points are actually true.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting jiggax23:</div><div class="quote_post">During that streak you are talking about, Kobe most of those games w/ 9 straight 40 point performances, 6 of them were w/ shaq on the floor, and 10 of the 13 games w/ 35+ point performance were w/ shaq... and towards the end (the last 3-5 games or so) he was forcing himself to score 40 points and he got much heat from it because he was just worried about himself extending his streak... he forced up two or three shots in a matter of seconds versus seattle when his streak ended cuz he only had 34 points... and shaq definitely was not the reason the lakers lost... the lakers lost as a team, but if you had to pinpoint it on one of the two big superstars on that team, everyone, except you people who wanna get in bed w/ kobe, would point their fingers at kobe, and rightfully so.</div> Oh, but McGrady doesn't force his shots for his 50+ point games? Put the two supermen of the East (Iverson and McGrady) on a West team with another star and a good coach (Popavich and the Spurs, for example) and see how many shots they'd be tossing in the air then.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post">Oh, but McGrady doesn't force his shots for his 50+ point games? Put the two supermen of the East (Iverson and McGrady) on a West team with another star and a good coach (Popavich and the Spurs, for example) and see how many shots they'd be tossing in the air then.</div> mcgrady doesn't force his shots just so he can extend a streak like kobe did... and let me reiterate kobe did this on more than one occasion to keep his streak going... kobe admitted to force up shots in order to get 35 points in order to extend his streak... thats why that streak sucks and is pointless (voted #2 most pointless streak/record by espn), just like david robinson scoring 71 to pass up shaq for the scoring title, just like ricky davis shooting at his own basket to get a triple double, and just like bob sura missing on purpose to get a rebound for his 3rd consecutive triple double...
