<div class="quote_poster">Quoting jiggax23:</div><div class="quote_post">mcgrady doesn't force his shots just so he can extend a streak like kobe did... and let me reiterate kobe did this on more than one occasion to keep his streak going... kobe admitted to force up shots in order to get 35 points in order to extend his streak... thats why that streak sucks and is pointless (voted #2 most pointless streak/record by espn), just like david robinson scoring 71 to pass up shaq for the scoring title, just like ricky davis shooting at his own basket to get a triple double, and just like bob sura missing on purpose to get a rebound for his 3rd consecutive triple double...</div> What makes you think that Jordan and the other guys that hold the record didn't do the same thing? They just didn't admit it. And as far as Sura and Davis go, those incidents shouldn't even be compared to what Kobe did, because their actions were ridiculous, and all Kobe did was score. The opposing defense couldn't stop Davis shooting at his own basket, nor could they get a rebound that Sura angled off the rim right to him...but they sure could've stopped Kobe from scoring 40, or he would be doing that every single night.
I think TMac is gonna prove that he's better than Kobe this year. Also TMac is "less" ignorant than Kobe is this is why the Big Man/SG combo is gonna work better in Houston than it did in LA. TMac wants to play with Yao and Yao wants to play with TMac. I used to hate TMac because im a Raps fan but when you think about it TMac dominates Kobe.
McGrady wouldn't play with Shaq. Jordan wouldn't play with a guy like Shaq. Their personalities will not allow them to. Kobe sacrificed, and knew that the offense was best to be ran by Shaq. Just like TOlbert said, he said u guys are seeing only half of Kobe, and that's incredible, imagine when he plays his full potential as the primary offense, it's gonna be scary. We all saw that game between Magic and Lakers, in OT. That's the difference between Kobe and McGrady. 9 straight with 40+ with a better FG% than Jordan. Watch Kobe Bryant bloom. Just wait and watch. Kobe is faster than T-Mac Better defender More moves More leadership More fire More competitive More clutch More money More records Kobe and Shaq were amazing, I still can't believe they won 67/68 games in their first championship run that's like 4/5 games away from being 72-10. In would've been dope to see T-mac/Yao vs. Kobe/Shaq matchup. It'll be the greatest western rivalry ever. Ratings for the NBA would be sky rocketing...Ain't gonna happen though.
Ok to answer all these Shaq/Kobe comparisons is just complete B.S. For one thing, if Yao Ming can actually go into the weight room, and actually look like he has flesh on his bones rather than look like Shawn Bradley, maybe he'd have a chance to be dominant someday. If Yao Ming can actually take Patrick Ewing's words into perspective, and actually learn how to be aggressive on both sides of the court, beig physical with his opponents, and not allow people to walk all over him, then maybe he'd have a shot of developing into a dominant center one day. I watch Yao Ming all the time, and you people making Shaq comparisons are just unbelieveably crazy. Yao Ming looks spectacular one night, then the next he looks like a reject. Read the facts fellas. Don't believe the hype. Until Yao can look at my facts that I pointed out, then he'd wear a ring one day in his life. As for the McGrady/Kobe comparisons, it's a good argument. Kobe has three rings playing alongside Shaq, and Tracy has zero. But one thing you can't take away from Kobe is his heart. How many times did Kobe Bryant save the Lakers this season and in the past? Do you actually believe Tracy McGrady will rally his team from huge deficits to win a basketball game, or would he just sulk on the bench like a quitter? Kobe and McGrady can be selfish players at times when they shoot ridiculous numbers from the field on any given night, but when Kobe is zoned and focused into the game, he's much more of a team player and distributes the basketball whenever neccessary. Remember how in the playoffs he went away from his game and allowed Gary Payton to get into the flow of the offense? And why do you think TMac won the scoring title for consecutive seasons? Did he EVER pass the ball to his teammates or trust his teammates?? Exactly my point. McGrady and Yao are a playoff team, but no way are they close to being a title contender. If anybody in their right kid of mind is willing to have Juwan Howard start for any franchise, that GM is disturbingly sick.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post">What makes you think that Jordan and the other guys that hold the record didn't do the same thing? They just didn't admit it. And as far as Sura and Davis go, those incidents shouldn't even be compared to what Kobe did, because their actions were ridiculous, and all Kobe did was score. The opposing defense couldn't stop Davis shooting at his own basket, nor could they get a rebound that Sura angled off the rim right to him...but they sure could've stopped Kobe from scoring 40, or he would be doing that every single night.</div> What record does Jordan hold that he had to force himself to get? He didn't go out and force himself to get 10 scoring titles, he earned them. He didn't go in to the all-star game and force himself to get a triple-double. He didn't make all those threes against portland cuz he forced those shots up, those shots were there for him. Kobe forced himself to get 40 every night, and he went on record as saying that he forcefully put up unneccesary shots towards the end of games to keep the record going. That in itself makes it a pretty lame record. And even if he did get it in a more legit manner, he still doesn't hold the record, so it's not even a big deal.
Yao's gonna be the best 7'5" plus player to date. Hes already miles away from Shawn Bradley. He already put on some weight, hasn't had a top ten dunks on Yao like Shawn Bradley has and Yao's a good passer like all the great bigs, Chamberlain, Shaq, Russell, Walton.... Kobe fans are obviously biased and TMac fans are obviously biased. You can't compare them to that extent YET because they've never been in the same situation. However with a TMac/Yao , maybe you will be as this season goes along. I don't think that TMac wants to loose but hes never been in a situation where he was on a good team(he bailed from the Raptors foolishly, Vince is unselfish it's not like TMac would've been his shadow.). On the flipside Kobe has NEVER been on a bad team. And you can't honestly say that the 3 championships that Kobe has were all and only his doing. Everything that happened in the past is history, both players will be in an entirely new situation, watch and enjoy.
I can't comment on Kobe's record because I don't know if his team won or lost those games so if anyone can give me the win/loss... If the team won its all good, if they didn't then its bs.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Philla Fan 22:</div><div class="quote_post">I think a Yao T-Mac duo will make some noise,but the question is how will T-Mac play with Yao,he has to realize that Yao needs to get his shots two,but a second player is what T-Mac always wanted in Orlando.</div> exactly what I was thinking. I am really accustomed to thinking t-mac is an individual player after his team made him carrry the load like that. I haven't read this thread at all, but I think he can dko some good with Yao, but not a Kobe-Shaq type duo.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">How many times did Kobe Bryant save the Lakers this season and in the past? Do you actually believe Tracy McGrady will rally his team from huge deficits to win a basketball game, or would he just sulk on the bench like a quitter? Kobe and McGrady can be selfish players at times when they shoot ridiculous numbers from the field on any given night, but when Kobe is zoned and focused into the game, he's much more of a team player and distributes the basketball whenever neccessary. Remember how in the playoffs he went away from his game and allowed Gary Payton to get into the flow of the offense? And why do you think TMac won the scoring title for consecutive seasons? Did he EVER pass the ball to his teammates or trust his teammates?? Exactly my point. </div> While that is true about Kobe how do we know that Mcgrady couldn't rally his team when he has a low post player to go to? Kobe has always had an option of going to Shaq. He can slack of on both ends of the court and use up little amount of energy through 3 quarters and then turn it on in the 4th. Thats something Mcgrady wasn't allowed to do in Orlando, he has to play for 48 minutes. He had to carry their offense at all times which is why many people consider his defense poor. He just didn't have the energy to carry it on into 4th quarter of games. I guess we will find out If that was the reason he didn't come in big late in games or not. From the games I saw T-mac did trust his team-mates and looked to pass but what use Is that when they refuse to hit open shots? Kobe has always had team-mates to look to. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If anybody in their right kid of mind is willing to have Juwan Howard start for any franchise, that GM is disturbingly sick.</div> Just like no franchise should ever start Samaki Walker through a full season and in the playoffs but we both know that happened Juwan Howard isn't that bad a player no matter what you would like to think.
Kobe and Shaq weren't a dynamic duo in their first 3 seasons together. T-Mac and Yao will eventually be a dynamic duo and it doesn't matter when they will.
Yao's problems are that his conditioning and lack of aggressivness. He doesn't look as skinny as Shawn Bradley or anything like that, but he is the slimest 310 pounder I've ever seen. I was thinking his legs just got bigger and his upper body doesn't look much different from his rookie season and with kinda short arms it shouldn't be to hard to get it a little bigger but it hasn't. I guess he just has to put about 10lbs strictly for his upper body so he can consistently bang inside and be a 22 and 11 man. With the conditioning in tact, Houston should make some big azz noise.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting ADubb20:</div><div class="quote_post">I can't comment on Kobe's record because I don't know if his team won or lost those games so if anyone can give me the win/loss... If the team won its all good, if they didn't then its bs.</div> they went 7-2 during the span he scored 40+ points... <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Prodigy:</div><div class="quote_post">9 straight with 40+ with a better FG% than Jordan.</div> A better FG% than Jordan? He shot 139-280, which is 49%... which is Jordans CAREER shooting percentage... During this streak, he shot horrible in the latter stages of it because he was forcing himself to score 40... this included games of 19-41, 14-31, and 13-34... And if you wanna get really into details, Kobe shot 49.6% during that streak, Jordan is a 49.7% career shooter... Nice try, but.....
Well imo the Rockets got worst defensively, with Kelvin Cato gone, Ming will now have to play alot more on-ball defense against te likes of Shaq & Duncan, and thats going to take alot out of him imo. Stamina seems to be one Ming's biggest problems right now,he gets tired really fast. And now with him having to bang with some of the top big's,trying to guard them more on a regular basis,its going to take him a minute to adjust to that. And he wont be able to use his lenght to effect teams as a weakside help defender as much because he will have to focus on guarding opposing teams best bigs all the time, which will also effect the rockets team defense. And I think the lost of Cuttino Mobley as a peimeter defender will also have some effect on the Rockets team defense. I think he was an underatted defender, & if Mcgrady doesnt give the effort on defense then that will become a hole in the rockets D. Also the point guard slot, Lue gives you the effort on the defensive side. But Lue is giving up alot of size. And gets posted up alot & scored on due to his lack of size. That opens up another option for teams to exploit especially out west were some of the best post up guards like Cassell & GP(yes he will be alot more productive next year & do some ofthe old things use to do) play. Baron Davis(since hornets are going west) also uses his body well. Teams are going to really focus on gettig alot of points in the PG vs PG matchup against the rockets. I do hear the rockets are trying to go after Troy Hudson or Derek Fisher. But neither of those really help them defensively imo. Derek Fisher would be an upgrade but not really by that much. He can pressure the basketball upcourt & draw some offensive fouls, but once you get over half-court he becomes pretty easy to score on. Troy hudson doesnt play defense at all really. And also he will give up some size similar to Lue,so I dont really see that as much of a defensive up grade from Lue. So its going to be interesting to see what Van Gundy comes up with to fill in those holes, that werent really in their defense last year. If he cant fill the holes then the rockets are going to have to see a big jump in their points per game average because they are going to give up more points this upcoming year.
I think theyll have a decent defence, team defence wise. TMac is a decent shot blocker (better BPG than Kobe) and he brings in more athleticism. Hudson and Fisher can't play D thats true but im sure theyll get one of them anyway and the other will go to the Raptors because they have too many things they will bring to the team to compensate.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AllNet:</div><div class="quote_post">While that is true about Kobe how do we know that Mcgrady couldn't rally his team when he has a low post player to go to? Kobe has always had an option of going to Shaq. He can slack of on both ends of the court and use up little amount of energy through 3 quarters and then turn it on in the 4th. Thats something Mcgrady wasn't allowed to do in Orlando, he has to play for 48 minutes. He had to carry their offense at all times which is why many people consider his defense poor. He just didn't have the energy to carry it on into 4th quarter of games. I guess we will find out If that was the reason he didn't come in big late in games or not.</div> Good points. Couldn't agree more. I guess we'll see if he succeeds alongside Yao, but if he continues to be the same old McGrady complaining about teammates, number of field goal opporunities, and so on then I guess my points about McGrady not able to put his team on his back stands true. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting AllNet:</div><div class="quote_post">From the games I saw T-mac did trust his team-mates and looked to pass but what use Is that when they refuse to hit open shots? Kobe has always had team-mates to look to.</div> I disagree. In my opinion, when the Magic went 0-18, he soon realized that he needed to do whatever necessary to get his team a win. Even if it meant going for 50-60 points, and taking over 25 shots a game. His teammates just wasn't making his job easier for him, and to me whenever TMac would get his scoring going and get hot from the field, all his teammates would do is stand like spectators in awe. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting AllNet:</div><div class="quote_post">Just like no franchise should ever start Samaki Walker through a full season and in the playoffs but we both know that happened</div> Samaki Walker was no better than a guy playing 10 minutes a game off the bench. I did start wondering whether huge chances will be made, and soon enough Malone was acquired. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting AllNet:</div><div class="quote_post">Juwan Howard isn't that bad a player no matter what you would like to think.</div> So then why is he constantly being used like trade bait?
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Samaki Walker was no better than a guy playing 10 minutes a game off the bench. I did start wondering whether huge chances will be made, and soon enough Malone was acquired.</div> He still started on a championship team, he might be the worse starter on a championship team of all-time. Still didn't change the fact L.A were NBA champs. Starting Howard won't decide If they are title contenders or not. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> So then why is he constantly being used like trade bait?</div> I've already explained that in full at the other Mcgrady thread.
no not yet, but they're certainly the next best thing...I think TMac is better than Kobe, but Yao still has a long way to go before he will be of Shaq's calibre...but they likely will be the most dominant duo this year...but yes, they are the "new" shaq-kobe, but just not there yet...
look, we're spending too much time deabting kobe vs. t-mac. we should let that rest since it seem like its only the kobe groupies who think kobe is so much better. the big question is what yao has to do to step into shaqs league other than put on muscle.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tripl3:</div><div class="quote_post">they likely will be the most dominant duo this year.</div> Sorry, Sam and KG got most dominant duo pre-ordered.
