u cant say russel he was a great defender and player but if ur doing it from titles u cant do that becasue he had many other great players on his team such as cousy
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post"> Only player to have a triple-double in an all-star game Hit 28 game-winning shots in his career Has posted 28 career triple doubles Highest PPG for an NBA Finals series (41.0 PPG) 173 games with 40 points or more Two Olympic Gold Medals All-time playoff record for most steals Only 40 year old player to score over 40 points in a game What else is there to say about MJ? He's not 7'4"...he doesn't weigh 300+ lbs...yet he's a guard who played in an era where PG's and SG's dominated the league. Guys were drafted and predicted to be the "next Jordan" right out of college. Him and Vince Carter made the Slam Dunk contest exciting...MJ made the NBA exciting...so why even argue about who's the greatest?</div> When you state these records I hope you know that Wilts dominated MJ's and Wilts are still standing. Wilt's wasn't 7'4", he did not weigh 300+ How many game winners did he miss? Wilt Chamberlain carrer high in assists one game 21. Best scoring games 100, 78(3 overtimes), 73, 73, 70. (Jordan's high was 69(1 overtime)). Record 55 rebounds in a game. (more unbelievable than 100 points.) 4029 points in one season.(50.4ppg) 37.6 ppg as rookie. 58 points as rookie. 271 games 40 or more points. 118 games 50 or more points. Consecutive games 50 or more, 7, 6 and 5 twice. Thats enough for now, unless you wanna post more Jordan records. Wilt was never in a position to do anything for McDonalds, Gatorade etc. Hell they never even televised his 100 point game.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting tmacfan:</div><div class="quote_post">i don't give a crab about who wilt was playing against 100 points is a heck of alot of points that's 50 fieldgoals in 48 min</div> Frank Selvy scored 100 points in an NCAA game. Dajuan Wagner scored 100 in a high school game, and there were 12 other high school kids to do it before him. If it doesn't matter who Wilt was playing against, it shouldn't matter who these guys were playing against either. Scoring 100 points is something everyone will make a big deal about...but any prolific scorer can do it if he just finds his shot and keeps the ball every play, much like Wilt did.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting ADubb20:</div><div class="quote_post">When you state these records I hope you know that Wilts dominated MJ's and Wilts are still standing. Wilt's wasn't 7'4", he did not weigh 300+ How many game winners did he miss? Wilt Chamberlain carrer high in assists one game 21. Best scoring games 100, 78(3 overtimes), 73, 73, 70. (Jordan's high was 69(1 overtime)). Record 55 rebounds in a game. (more unbelievable than 100 points.) 4029 points in one season.(50.4ppg) 37.6 ppg as rookie. 58 points as rookie. 271 games 40 or more points. 118 games 50 or more points. Consecutive games 50 or more, 7, 6 and 5 twice. Thats enough for now, unless you wanna post more Jordan records. Wilt was never in a position to do anything for McDonalds, Gatorade etc. Hell they never even televised his 100 point game.</div> So if you compare his stats to Wilt's, then you must be saying that yesterday's basketball (meaning Wilt's time) is just as difficult and challenging as it is now...or even in the Jordan era. That's not true. All I was saying was that Jordan did have the most impressive stats when you consider the two most dominant decades (the 80's and 90's) that he played in. Guys today wouldn't let someone like Kareem and Wilt to get off the hook shot, let alone get close enough to the rim to score 100 points. Give Shaq the paint in his prime, and give Wilt the ball in his prime and I guarantee this: Wilt would be held to under 30 points...not bad though, but still not 100.
Wilt was a better defender than Shaq and less fat. Also incredibly strong, more mobile... If you read my other posts I gave more detail about comparing eras, because you can't. If the talent was so bad back then, why was Wilt that dominant in it, Wilt was also born back then its not like he was put back into the future to dominate an old league.
JORDAN IS THE BEST NOW AND WILL ALWAYS BE There is nobody that can duplicate what MJ did for the NBA as far as states and fans. Jordan went up against Magic,Bird,Barkley,Ewing,Shaq,Olajuwan Not to mention he is 6'6 210 pound SG. Not a center when you about 2ft from the basket. Wilt was great in his days but was almost forgotten when MJ took over the league and dominates on and off the court. There is never going to be a MJ maybe statically but not with the Heart and the mind of a champion JUST READ THE SIG
All of the legends are almost forgotten because, people only care about what they have seen and are not open minded enough to look at the history of the NBA and read and understand about what all went down. If stats mean nothing and anyone coulda dominated, then Bill Russell. Was the GOAT. However Jordan has a much greater skill set etc. Jordan is by far the greatest of the 90's but it is unfair and unrealistic to compare era's, too many variables. All-Time doesn't work. 40's- Joe Fulks/George Mikan 50's- George Mikan/Bill Russell 60's- Oscar Robertson/Bill Russell/Wilt Chamberlain 70's- Nate Archbald/Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 80's- Earvin Johnson/Larry Bird 90's- Micheal Jordan/Hakeem Olajuwon 2000's- Shaquille O'Neal/Kobe Bryant/?...
ADubb, just give up. No one is going to listen to what you say. They're just going to keep finding excuses to call MJ better than every other person who has stepped on the hardwood. I've tried too many times on this board to do what you're doing and it hasn't worked.
ADubb is right, there is no way to settle this dispute. we can only name the great players of the different decades. none of us have gone through playin in the different timelines.
Despite the fact that my handle is derived from MJ, I have this to say: The answer is there is no answer. Wilt, Oscar, Michael, Bill- all are great players in their own right. How can we compare them? Titles? Well, Bill has that then. Points scored in a career? Jabbar has that. Highest scoring average in a season? Wilt has that then. Career points per game? Jordan has that. Averaging a triple double for a season? Oscar has that. The point is each player has a very legitimate case for being considered the GOAT. There is no way anyone can honestly sit there and say, without a doubt, that one player is deserving of being the GOAT.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Vintage:</div><div class="quote_post">Despite the fact that my handle is derived from MJ, I have this to say: The answer is there is no answer. Wilt, Oscar, Michael, Bill- all are great players in their own right. How can we compare them? Titles? Well, Bill has that then. Points scored in a career? Jabbar has that. Highest scoring average in a season? Wilt has that then. Career points per game? Jordan has that. Averaging a triple double for a season? Oscar has that. The point is each player has a very legitimate case for being considered the GOAT. There is no way anyone can honestly sit there and say, without a doubt, that one player is deserving of being the GOAT.</div> Ah, I can always depend on Vintage to say what I try to say in a way that more people can understand.
You guys are leaving some peole out of eras What about Isaih Thomas, one of the best small guards of all time? What about Sir Charles? You cant forget people like that. ADubb, you have a ? on your list for best of the 2000's era: Easy enough isnt it? Kevin Garnett.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting sunsfan1357:</div><div class="quote_post">Ah, I can always depend on Vintage to say what I try to say in a way that more people can understand.</div> I finally understand you now. When you said it was a lost cause to try to explain to many the other great players throughout history, you were right. I could post Wilts stats, like I already did, over and over again. It won't matter. "There weren't big men back then..." You just cannot win. Too many Jordan fans. Too little in numbers are those who fully appreciate how Wilt and many other greats dominated in their respective time. The NBA did not start in 1990. So why do many continue to ignore the past? I don't have an answer for that.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting KG-MVP:</div><div class="quote_post">You guys are leaving some peole out of eras What about Isaih Thomas, one of the best small guards of all time? What about Sir Charles? You cant forget people like that. ADubb, you have a ? on your list for best of the 2000's era: Easy enough isnt it? Kevin Garnett.</div> How is Garnett the best player? How do we determine if he is better than, say, Tim Duncan. MVP's? Duncan has two. Garnett one. Rings? Duncan has two. Garnett has zero. Points since 2000-01 season? Garnett has 7368. Duncan 7331. PPG since 2000-01 season? 23.35 for Duncan. 22.60 for Garnett Rebounds since 2000-01 season? Garnett has 4143. Duncan 3941. RPG since 2000-01 season? Garnett has 12.71. Duncan 12.55 So.... Duncan and Garnett have nearly identical stats. In reality, the only thing that sets them apart in this comparisons, are the championships. Now to the question I have....How is Garnett the best of the 2000 decade thus far? Because to me, Garnett AND Duncan both have very, very similar production. So, in conclusion, no.... its NOT "easy enough isnt it? Its Garnett."
This isn't even a debate.. Michael Jordan.. Most titles.. most mvps.. most scoring titles.. most everything. Only other 2 would be Johnson and Bird..
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Deadlock:</div><div class="quote_post">This isn't even a debate.. Michael Jordan.. Most titles.. most mvps.. most scoring titles.. most everything. Only other 2 would be Johnson and Bird..</div> No. Russell has more championships. And yes, its a debate. Read my posts above and explain to me CLEARLY how we can lable one player as the GOAT. Please. How can one player be considered the GOAT?
I know im going to get flamed for this but so here it goes Shaq MVP:1 NBA titles:3 All NBA First team: 6 All Nba 2 team:2 I will not include 3rd team because it was only added in the late 80s i think pardon if m wrong. He may not of scored as much as some1 like Wilt but Shaq was a winner and Wilt wasnt. He may not of won as much as Kareem or Bill Russel but he has 28 teams to compete against not like 10 or 15. He has 2 scoring titles on his lap and barely missed 4. Has won a finals MVP for 3 consectutive seasons which i dont think any player has ever accomplished. In shaqs rookie year he was about the 7th best player in the league and at that time there were 3 dominant centers, Hakeem, Patrick Ewing, and The Admiral. They were some of the leagues best centers. Shaq eventually surpassed them all and not before they were old and suked wen they were going downhill and Shaq continued to develop. And no shit like they were old cuz in Shaqs 2nd year he averaged like 29 points any of them do that? dun think so and that year Shaq had competition so no shit like he has no competition they were all ood then. By 1998 he dominated them all. It took Ewing 9 seasons to get to the finals. It took O Neal 3. They both had a good supporting cast so no shit like that. Every year Shaq played ecxcept his rookie season and recent season he has came in the top 4 in scoring. He is also a very good fg % shooter. Ya ya ya i know theyre so close but how does he get so close? Dominance and power and size. Ranks #1 in fg% and has held the title since he gained it in 1998. He also came first in 1994.Shaq is one of the most accurate shooters in history. Before Shaq came to Orlando theyre record was 21-61 pretty good eh? When he came he ncrease their record by 20 wins to have a 50% record. But most of all Shaqs post season is why he is the best center. Other than this playoffs he abosoulutley dominates them.In his first finals game ever he almost had a triple double with 26 points 16 rebounds and 9 assist. But Nick Anderson lost them the game. Shaq to Kareem They both have different play styles. Kareem was a fineese player and Shaq is a power player. Id much rather have Shaq on my team. They are both 2 of the best 5 players in NBA history tho. I feel Shaq needs to continue wat hes doing for him to be called officially better. Shaq to Wilt Shaq is bigger and quicker( not faster) than Wilt,Wilts athletic abilty was far more superior tho and he had more basketball skills prolly. I feel the GOAT is Shaq then Wilt then MJ bigmen were a need for every great team except Jordans Bulls. Wilt never won as much. But his stats were far better but i feel its only because of his time. Shaq wouldve owned the game in the 60s. Wilt is better thn Shaq defensivly tho. Must say that. Too lazy to do another comparison to another center. That is why i thik Shaq is the Goat heres my list of the top 10 players of all time IMO 1- Shaq 2-Wilt 3-MJ 4- Bill Russel 5- Kareem Abdul- Jabbar 6- Larry Bird 7- Magic 8- Big O (didnt he average a triple double once?) 9- Tim Duncan 10- Hate to say it but Bob Cousy Remember this is IMO
I am not going to flame you, because even though I disagree, you put time, thought, and research into your post. But one correction: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Ranks #1 in fg% and has held the title since he gained it in 1998. </div> Eddy Curry led the NBA in that category in 2002-2003
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Ace-:</div><div class="quote_post">He has 2 scoring titles on his lap and barely missed 4. Has won a finals MVP for 3 consectutive seasons which i dont think any player has ever accomplished. Shaq is one of the most accurate shooters in history.</div> Okay...just a few things. Jordan has 10 scoring titles. Jordan won the Finals MVP three consecutive times...but he did it twice, six times altogether. And Shaq is accurate until you put him 10 feet away from the basket...then statistically, he sucks.
