My bad the Eddy Curry thing mustve escaped me somehow How could i forget Jordans god o well Still Shaq is 1 of the most acurrate fg shooters in Nba history. It doesnt matter how close he is. So tell me how come Jordan didnt shoot next to the basket then? Jordan couldnt not big enough. and not a center. but Shaq has to get there. He knows he cant shoot far shots so he chooses his shots wisely unlike Jordan who sometimes forced his shots. DAvid Stern was also MJs bitch. I remember the 1996 all star game wen Shaq got cheated of his mvp. ) Shaq had 25-10-1 and Jordan had 20-4-1 and Jordan ended up getting it. Even in the finals against Uthah the refs favored the bulls and this is coming from some1 who isnt rly a jazz fan. David Stern was Mjs little bitch as i see it. I am also aware of MJs 10 scoring titles scoring isnt everything tho but it is a big part. I still say Shaq is better . Mj just got his ass kissed up n down I bet a MJ fans gonna say sometin to this
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Ace-:</div><div class="quote_post"> I bet a MJ fans gonna say sometin to this</div> You are right, and MJ fan is going to say something about this now.... How come no one has even argued my point at all. I have stated there is no GOAT and given several reasons why. Yet, poster after poster comes in here and states "Player A" is the GOAT. No one however has debunked my arguement. I guess that means there really is no GOAT, since no one can argue against me and sunsfans posts.....
The only reason I say that there has to be a "greatest" because that's how life is. SportsCenter did numerous countdowns on greatest athletes, greatest sports moments, etc. but they never considered the different eras to be a factor. It's almost like saying, "Man, LeBron put up great numbers this year, but Luke Walton didn't get to play much and had too many other players on his team" and then handing the ROTY award to Walton because he was on the Lakers and didn't have the opportunity to start or to play as much as LeBron. Everyone is put into a category by numbers these days. In the NBA, you're either a superstar, a star, a role player, or an NBDL prospect...but who knows how good a player is if he's not given equal opportunities like those given to, say, Garnett or Duncan? Look at Flip Murray off the Sonics. What about Manu Ginobili, when he scored 38 points (or something similar) when Duncan was out? This is similar to the different eras. If Wilt played today, where there aren't very many dominant centers, how would he do compared to playing against Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Mourning, and Shaq in the early 90's? It all boils down to a player's disposition...and when you only compare how much of an impact each player had on the sport of basketball, Jordan tops them all. Go to any playground, any age group, and ask the kids or adults there what player comes to mind when you say basketball...and there will be alot more "Jordans" than "Wilts" and that may be because basketball wasn't as big or as publicized back then, but like I said before...guys don't have equal opportunities. Who's to say that Kobe isn't the greatest if he had his own team, like McGrady? Or...he could suck with his own team. What if Garnett was on the Magic by himself? Not considering the missed opportunities and the difference in age and style of play, Michael Jordan wins. If you throw in all the factors, then yeah...there's no way of knowing.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post">If Wilt played today, where there aren't very many dominant centers, how would he do compared to playing against Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Mourning, and Shaq in the early 90's? It all boils down to a player's disposition...and when you only compare how much of an impact each player had on the sport of basketball, Jordan tops them all. Go to any playground, any age group, and ask the kids or adults there what player comes to mind when you say basketball...and there will be alot more "Jordans" than "Wilts" and that may be because basketball wasn't as big or as publicized back then, but like I said before...guys don't have equal opportunities. Who's to say that Kobe isn't the greatest if he had his own team, like McGrady? Or...he could suck with his own team. What if Garnett was on the Magic by himself? Not considering the missed opportunities and the difference in age and style of play, Michael Jordan wins. If you throw in all the factors, then yeah...there's no way of knowing.</div> Wilt played against a load of hall-of-fame centers during his career. That's not enough proof that he can hold his own against high profile centers? The reason Jordan tops mostly everyone (I think Magic and Bird did a better job than MJ) is because the media has grown so much all around the globe. Did Jordan have something to do with that? Of course, however he didn't come up with the technology used that gets his name around the world. Imagine if Wilt was playing in today's media era. Think of the buzz that a freakishly athletic 7'1 center would generate, especially when you add in the fact that he can actually play the game.
By position: Point Guard: Magic Johnson Shooting Guard: Michael Jordan Small Forward: Larry Bird Power Forward: Tim Duncan Center: Wilt Chamberlain MVP: Michael Jordan, only because he was the most competitive of the bunch. Current players: Point Guard: Jason Kidd (reluctantly) Shooting Guard: Tracy McGrady Small Forward: Dirk Norwitzski Power Forward: Tim Duncan Center: Shaquille O'Neal MVP: Tim Duncan. Why doesn't the NBA push him as the player that all young players should imulate? Under 25: Point Guard: LeBron James (could be switched to shooting guard) Shooting Guard: Ronald "Flip" Murray (could be switched to point guard) Small Forward: Carmelo Anthony Power Forward: Amare Stoudamire Center: Yao Ming MVP: Right now, Carmelo Anthony. Besides winning an NBA championship (and a rookie of the year award that he should have gotten), has a kid who has just turned 20 have done any more in his basketball career? He has winner written all over him.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post">By position: Point Guard: Magic Johnson Shooting Guard: Michael Jordan Small Forward: Larry Bird Power Forward: Tim Duncan Center: Wilt Chamberlain MVP: Michael Jordan, only because he was the most competitive of the bunch. Current players: Point Guard: Jason Kidd (reluctantly) Shooting Guard: Tracy McGrady Small Forward: Dirk Norwitzski Power Forward: Tim Duncan Center: Shaquille Oneal MVP: Tim Duncan. Why doesn't the NBA push him as the player that all young players should imulate? Under 25: Point Guard: LeBron James (could be switched to shooting guard) Shooting Guard: Ronald "Flip" Murray (could be switched to point guard) Small Forward: Carmelo Anthony Power Forward: Amare Stoudamire Center: Yao Ming MVP: Right now, Carmelo Anthony. Besides winning an NBA championship (and a rookie of the year award that he should have gotten), has a kid who has just turned 20 have done any more in his basketball career? He has winner written all over him.</div> By position: Tim Duncan over Kevin McHale, Barkley, Hayes, and Malone? Current players: If you put Dirk at SF you mineaswhile classify KG has a SF and put him in that slot instead. Either that or move McGrady to SF and Kobe to SG. There are so many varieties you can do with players today that I don't think it's possibly to have one clear definate lineup. Under 25: I haven't read any of your posts, but from my understanding you are a Sonics fan. Is that the reason for Flip? I would think that is why you put him over Quentin and Jason Richardson, Michael Redd, Joe Johnson, etc.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting sunsfan1357:</div><div class="quote_post">By position: Tim Duncan over Kevin McHale, Barkley, Hayes, and Malone? Current players: If you put Dirk at SF you mineaswhile classify KG has a SF and put him in that slot instead. Either that or move McGrady to SF and Kobe to SG. There are so many varieties you can do with players today that I don't think it's possibly to have one clear definate lineup.etc.</div> I agree with Iron Shiek's list. At the point guard, Magic, and at the 2 spot, Michael Jordan of course. When it comes to the SF position, I'm also going to have to agree with that, Larry Bird. Now, as you said, McHale, Barkley, or Karl Malone should be at the 4 spot when Iron said Tim Duncan. Tim Duncan is one of the most amazing players in the history of the NBA. He is the most fundamental, most enthuisiatic player in the game today. Not Keven Garnett, but him. When it comes to sports writers, all of them rate Duncan first in the game today. http://espn.go.com/nba/columns/stein_marc/1477680.html http://cbs.sportsline.com/nba/story/6602426 Duncan is a franchise player for the Spurs. I remember when he was rookie for the month all the time! November 1998 December 1998 January 1998 February 1998 March 1998 April 1998 You just can't say he's not one of the best.
I would hope Duncan got the Rookie of the Month every single month...because there was nobody in his draft class except Billups, McGrady and Van Horn...and they all pretty much sucked in their rookie year, compared to Tim Duncan. Bump Duncan up to the 1996 or 1998 draft class, with guys like Iverson, Kobe, Carter, Williams and Peja...and he'd be disappointed.
The most incredible player is Jesse Dunn, I read about this enormous talent in slam streetball.......!!!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting All-Star:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree with Iron Shiek's list. At the point guard, Magic, and at the 2 spot, Michael Jordan of course. When it comes to the SF position, I'm also going to have to agree with that, Larry Bird. Now, as you said, McHale, Barkley, or Karl Malone should be at the 4 spot when Iron said Tim Duncan. Tim Duncan is one of the most amazing players in the history of the NBA. He is the most fundamental, most enthuisiatic player in the game today. Not Keven Garnett, but him. When it comes to sports writers, all of them rate Duncan first in the game today. http://espn.go.com/nba/columns/stein_marc/1477680.html http://cbs.sportsline.com/nba/story/6602426 Duncan is a franchise player for the Spurs. I remember when he was rookie for the month all the time! November 1998 December 1998 January 1998 February 1998 March 1998 April 1998 You just can't say he's not one of the best.</div> Everybody has there different oppinions, so I respect your opinions but you can't say that every sports writers think that Tim is the best today when you only give 2 examples of articles which was written almost a year ago. 2 writers isn't every writer. Duncan is the Spurs 'franchise player but KG is also the Timberwolves' franchise player. And I don't believe that anybody can be called the greatest. Alot of the posters on JBB haven't even seen some of the great players play, like me. The players don't even play in the same time, they don't play under the same situations.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Vintage:</div><div class="quote_post">Despite the fact that my handle is derived from MJ, I have this to say: The answer is there is no answer. Wilt, Oscar, Michael, Bill- all are great players in their own right. How can we compare them? Titles? Well, Bill has that then. Points scored in a career? Jabbar has that. Highest scoring average in a season? Wilt has that then. Career points per game? Jordan has that. Averaging a triple double for a season? Oscar has that. So what do we use as a comparison? Someone answer that question. Because I've seen many posters in this thread who think they have the answer to the GOAT question....so if they have that, surely they are smart enough to be able to tell us how they came to that conclusion and what criterea they used. I guess me, sunsfan, and a select few are just not smart enough to be able to name the GOAT. The point is each player has a very legitimate case for being considered the GOAT. There is no way anyone can honestly sit there and say, without a doubt, that one player is deserving of being the GOAT.</div> I am going to keep quoting this until someone proves us wrong. And by us, I mean sunsfan and I.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post">I would hope Duncan got the Rookie of the Month every single month...because there was nobody in his draft class except Billups, McGrady and Van Horn...and they all pretty much sucked in their rookie year, compared to Tim Duncan. Bump Duncan up to the 1996 or 1998 draft class, with guys like Iverson, Kobe, Carter, Williams and Peja...and he'd be disappointed.</div> Kieth Van Horn far from sucked his rookie year even compared to Duncan. And if you put Duncan's rookie of the year in 1997 vs Iverson rookie of the year in 1996. Duncan wins, his stats were gathered inorder to help the Spurs win 50+ games. Iverson's rookie year on the other hand was a case of stat saturation. Johnny Davis let Iverson do what ever he wanted to gather up stats not victories. And during the lockout season in 98', it was a 3-man rookie of the year race for the most part that season,between Vince Carter, Paul Pierce, Jason Wlliams with VC winning the award. They all had solid/good rookie years. But none of those cats had the impact on their teams wins & losses right away that Van Horn & Duncan had there rookie years. Jason Williams help the Kings turn around hs rookie year but not in the fashion Duncan helped the Spurs get back to winning in 97'. Duncan had one of the better rookie years in the 90's. And matches up pretty well against any other players rookie year inthe 90's.
Iron Shieks list is almost like mine, All time C-Shaq Pf- Bill Russel( i believe he can play the bf just fine) Sf- Larry Bird Sg- MJ PG-Magic MVP- Shaq Current C-Shaq Pf- Tim Duncan SF- KG SG- Kobe Bryant Pg- Jason Kidd MVP- Tim Duncan( Shaq is past his prime) I dont think under 25 really matters much and yes Tim Duncan IS better than McHale, Barkley, Hayes
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Ace-:</div><div class="quote_post">Iron Shieks list is almost like mine, All time C-Shaq Pf- Bill Russel( i believe he can play the bf just fine) Sf- Larry Bird Sg- MJ PG-Magic MVP- Shaq Current C-Shaq Pf- Tim Duncan SF- KG SG- Kobe Bryant Pg- Jason Kidd MVP- Tim Duncan( Shaq is past his prime) I dont think under 25 really matters much and yes Tim Duncan IS better than McHale, Barkley, Hayes</div> I agree with your current and agree with most of your all-time but I question Shaq over Wilt. Wilt was simply more athletic(Shaq is an amazing athlete, contary to popular opinion), had more moves and a better game, also was incredibly strong. I think Wilt should be known as superman and Shaq as the Hulk(fits better than vica-versa). I think Barkley was better than Duncan is. Although it is a tough compare even though they play the same position. (I hate using height as an advantage)but here's a clear advantage. Duncan an oversized PF vs. Barkley and undersized one. Also I would consider putting Hakeem Olajuwon over Duncan at the power forward. Hakeem(Akeem rather) played PF alongside Ralph Sampson 7'4" center(coulda had a great career) for a stretch in his early career. And for Larry in the SF spot(I think the forward spots are the hardest to choose all-time) I like Larry there, but consider this. What if Dr.J was on those Celts and Larry was on the Sixers?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting sunsfan1357:</div><div class="quote_post">By position: Tim Duncan over Kevin McHale, Barkley, Hayes, and Malone? Current players: If you put Dirk at SF you mineaswhile classify KG has a SF and put him in that slot instead. Either that or move McGrady to SF and Kobe to SG. There are so many varieties you can do with players today that I don't think it's possibly to have one clear definate lineup. Under 25: I haven't read any of your posts, but from my understanding you are a Sonics fan. Is that the reason for Flip? I would think that is why you put him over Quentin and Jason Richardson, Michael Redd, Joe Johnson, etc.</div> The reason why Kevin Garnett wasn't on my list is because he is a power forward and is not better than Tim Duncan. Dirk has played small forward, power forward, and center for the Mavs. When people think of Dirk they automatically think shooter so that is why I put him at the small forward for this list. He has no offensive weaknesses and is a pretty underrated rebounder and an adequate defender. He might be one of the best shooters/scorers in the league and he is 7'0'' (and only 26). If there was a sixth man I would have given KG b/c of his extreme talents and desire to win. I just don't look at him as being the best post player in the game. Tim Duncan has won two NBA championships in his brief career (the second almost single handedly) and has had the Spurs in contention for a championship every year since he has been there. He was one fluke shot away from probably winning his third championship. All of those players that you mentioned were great players, but if you put any of those players on the Spurs (in their prime) right now I don't think any of those teams would be legitimate championship contenders. I didn't put Shaq on my all time team b/c his greatness ran in spurts. He was only great for the seasons in which he won the NBA Championships (especially 2001). All of the other years he was very good, but had issues w/ conditioning, injuries, and skill development (early in his career) along w/ his issues w/ Kobe Bryant. If Shaq was the greatest center of all time do you think that there would be any question of who was the primary option on offense. Don't you think that his teammates (or Shaq) would have put Kobe in his place, physically? Now I don't have Kobe on my best current team just b/c he isn't good enough not to trust his teammates. McGrady is longer, more of a natural scorer, and if motivated could be just as tenacious of an defender. Plus McGrady hasn't had the luxury of Shaq like Kobe has. Kobe is a great player but having him on a team would be like selling yourself to the devil (b/c of all of the hoopla--some brought on by Kobe--that surrounds Bryant). In my opinion the most solid team that I have is my under 25 team. There are no guards in the league under 25 better than LeBron and Flip (Flip turns 25 later this month). There is no small forward better than Carmelo under 25. Same w/ Amare and Yao. If I had an honorable mention/sixth man I would maybe put Zach Randolph in there but other than that I'm content w/ that team. To be honest w/ everyone I think that Flip is better than LeBron, he just hasn't had the same opportunity. Most people on this site haven't seen too much of Flip but I guarantee that in three seasons you will hear his name associated w/ the best players in the league.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post">By position: Point Guard: Magic Johnson Shooting Guard: Michael Jordan Small Forward: Larry Bird Power Forward: Tim Duncan Center: Wilt Chamberlain MVP: Michael Jordan, only because he was the most competitive of the bunch. Current players: Point Guard: Jason Kidd (reluctantly) Shooting Guard: Tracy McGrady Small Forward: Dirk Norwitzski Power Forward: Tim Duncan Center: Shaquille O'Neal MVP: Tim Duncan. Why doesn't the NBA push him as the player that all young players should imulate? Under 25: Point Guard: LeBron James (could be switched to shooting guard) Shooting Guard: Ronald "Flip" Murray (could be switched to point guard) Small Forward: Carmelo Anthony Power Forward: Amare Stoudamire Center: Yao Ming MVP: Right now, Carmelo Anthony. Besides winning an NBA championship (and a rookie of the year award that he should have gotten), has a kid who has just turned 20 have done any more in his basketball career? He has winner written all over him.</div> TRACY MCGREEDY???...IM NOT EVEN GOING TO READ THE REST!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Boston_2004:</div><div class="quote_post">TRACY MCGREEDY???...IM NOT EVEN GOING TO READ THE REST!!!!!!!!!!!!!</div> Well, I would think you would like a greedy player considering that Ricky Davis is your favorite player (by the way I am a fan of Davis, too). I'm not a big Kobe fan so that is why I put Tracy on the list. Tracy plays big in big games, he just hasn't played in too many of them.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post">Well, I would think you would like a greedy player considering that Ricky Davis is your favorite player (by the way I am a fan of Davis, too). I'm not a big Kobe fan so that is why I put Tracy on the list. Tracy plays big in big games, he just hasn't played in too many of them.</div> Jordan has to be the best without a doubt because he was a fanstastic player on the court...he could do anything including save his team from a loss....he used to hit major shots that were tough and just freaky...Kobe might just be the next MJ
Again, Jordan is the greatest. He did the most for his sport. Eras don't even come into the equation. Jordan did the most for his sport. Why didn't Russell and Chamberlain do more for their sport than Jordan? It's because they didn't :
