You raise some valid points....Shaq doesn't work hard and yes his mindset is a bit off but think about it...if u were 7'1, 320 lbs and dominate the league...would you take a little paycut to watch Kobe make $136.4 million in 7 years while you make $30 million in 5 years?
All these posts about how Kobe will resemble Penny and such...In my eyes it's ridiculous. I can see you drawing a few comparisons, but Kobe is a special ballplayer. Kobe is very versatile and he brings a certain energy to the game. Now of course Kobe's performance was interedependant on Shaq in some ways last season, he can still perform at a very high level without the big fella. Kobe is unbreakable because his talent has no limits and his work ethic is undisputedly high, he exhibits this into the games and you get an amazing performance night in and night out. Kobe has an unlimited figure of dimensions to his game thus I feel Kobe will still be outstanding even without Shaq.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting pchotsauce:</div><div class="quote_post">You raise some valid points....Shaq doesn't work hard and yes his mindset is a bit off but think about it...if u were 7'1, 320 lbs and dominate the league...would you take a little paycut to watch Kobe make $136.4 million in 7 years while you make $30 million in 5 years?</div> Yes I would, because at that age and by making more than enough money than I could possibly spend, the only thing worth playing for would be titles. Aging players willing to take a backseat to the upcoming stars have all enjoyed success in their later years, and were even more respected by the basketball community. The last example is David Robinson. He recognized right away the talent Tim Duncan had, and he was willing to play a lesser role so Duncan could become an MVP in the league. Prior to Duncan's arrival, David Robinson was one of the leading scorers in the league. He gave it up to be the defensive force inside for the Spurs.
well not to make an excuse or anything but Shaq and Kobe doesn't get along so of course Shaq won't recognize that...he feels he still has a few more years to excel and win a ring....
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting pchotsauce:</div><div class="quote_post">well not to make an excuse or anything but Shaq and Kobe doesn't get along so of course Shaq won't recognize that...he feels he still has a few more years to excel and win a ring....</div> Is it the fact him and Kobe don't get along, or is it his ego and stubborness being the catalyst for him not recognizing it? I think Shaq does and has realized Kobe is the future of the team and his ego cannot handle it. I also think their feud is blown out of proportion and they have good chemistry on the court. Shaq said many times last season, Kobe was the MVP during the regular season and he's an amazing talent. Shaq would lead you to believe he has been disrespected, but for Shaq it's all about the benjis and nothing else. He might have a few more years, possibly 4 more if he gets back in shape, but with his salary demands he's going to be hard pressed to win another title.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SCBrian:</div><div class="quote_post"> i personally think you and crazytown are morons with iq's of about 120 but i wouldn't say that...oh wait...i just did...</div> you know, 120 is not bad at all... genius level starts at 133. 118 is average iq for college graduates. other than that, enjoyed the argument.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting cubanballer:</div><div class="quote_post">you know, 120 is not bad at all... genius level starts at 133. 118 is average iq for college graduates. other than that, enjoyed the argument.</div> i dont think i have very many friends with IQ's below 130...but yah =P thats beside the point...and 133 is a very low figure for 'genius' level...true genius level should start at 160...at my elementary school alone, the IQ cutoff to get into the program was 145...and i don't think there were very many genius' in that class -.-...i'll just say this much though...by whatever standards you wanna put the genius cutoff at...i am still way past it ;( so im tired of this rpitiful and crazyidiot talkin smack to me...they're not even on my level...not even close...and so to you two...until you can construct an actually well formulated argument...do not post in direction to me, do not post about me...i have torn you both to shreds on numerous occassions and the only reason you guys don't get the point is because you're too dumb to realize what happened... umm pchotsauce...you said that shaq was set to make 30 million over 5 years while kobe was to make 137 or wuteverz in 7...shaqs contract right now for the next 2 years is 29.4 million and 32.4 million respectively...there were no talks of a 30 million over 5 years...he wanted an extension starting at 34 million per season for 3-5 years...or at least 2...in the final, and highest paying, year of kobe contract, he will earn just under 25 million for that final season and the first year starts at just over 14 million...so how is not paying shaq 2.5 times the amount of kobes contract disrespecting him? shaq is a selfish whore...and they needed to trade him, but like i said before in this thread, they were 2 years too late...
Okay...I'm now the Lakers GM. I'm thinking, "Who do I keep...Shaq or Kobe?" I'll look at age: Kobe came into the league in 1996, Shaq in 1992...and Kobe came out of high school. Then I make that a factor with salary. Shaq is obviously making too much, while other teams would love to drop below the cap to sign Kobe. I think of guys named Hakeem, Pippen, Ewing, Barkley, and even Jordan...all who were eventually traded by the team in which they were dominant players for. None of them had a chance of making the NBA Finals once they were traded...maybe Barkley, but only because he joined Hakeem and Drexler in Houston at the time (before Hakeem was traded to the Raps). Then I think to myself, "What injuries will hold this player back?" Shaq had a bad toe and missed for it, and then strained his calf after his toe problems were healed...and missed a few games for that also. Kobe had shoulder surgery over the summer, re-injures it and sits out for a few weeks, then returns. Okay, this is a shoulder injury...well, he gets hit and hurt again, but seeing that the team's playoff spot is in jeopardy, he wears a shoulder pad/supporter and plays with it injured, when he was supposed to be out for at least another 3 weeks. In the playoffs, he ends up getting treated for dehydration and exhaustion with IVs and fluids...all the game after he flew to Denver and back to make the playoff game. Shaq's free throws lose us the game most of the time, when we have to pull the guy out of the game because he is continually fouled...but who is our other center? We had NONE. Shaq became a liability...in 4th quarters, he was benched for 5 fouls half of the time, and the other half, he was getting bruised up and hacked at by guys constantly...say he shoots 50% that night. That means he just lost us...around 8 points, in a game where he would shoot 16 free throws (this has happened before). Then I shift my focus to Shaq and Kobe's defense. Shaq plays great defending the paint against Yao, Garnett, etc...but what about Billups, Parker and Francis? When Payton was blown away by these young and fast PG's, they would make their way into the paint (Shaq's second home) and would easily lay the ball in on him. Where's the huge shot-blocking force? Also, when Olowokandi grabs boards and throws them down on Shaq (he dunked on Shaq badly in the Minnesota/Lakers series), then you know that he's not so dominant anymore. On the other hand, Kobe is one of the excellent defenders in the league, but he can't hold Payton's man and his at the same time. Kobe's defense only carries so far...running up and down the court FAST and getting back on defense FAST...it wears everyone down. Finally, let's consider Shaq's competition in the West. Yao Ming is developing well, playing Shaq. He's got a jumper, which kills Shaq everytime because Shaq can't do anything outside of 5 feet. Garnett, who can play the paint and pretty much jump over Shaq these days...or Duncan, throwing shots easily off the glass, or his near-game-winner in Game 4 against the Lakers...remember? It was a no-look shot on Shaq...from 15 feet away. Not so dominant, is he? Kobe has more potential...he's younger, he's quicker, and resembles Jordan more than anyone in the league. I never said he's just as good, but he's the closest. For two guys who can't get along, how can both be starters in the All-Star game, have stats that are at or near the top of the league, and win championships together? They were forced to put up with each other...or, you could say Kobe was forced to stick it out with a guy who wanted the ball 24/7. But, now that he's already losing his abilities to block shots and his court awareness is deteriorating, so is his value. Why throw away a guy that has been nothing less than incredible? The ONLY reason would be because of his future...which may be a good one, or may be in prison...but since things are looking up for Kobe, why not look up with him? If he's guilty, the Lakers would be ready to sign away the next season, and will be able to pick up alot of talent...so is the risk of keeping Kobe actually a RISK? I think it was the best decision for the Lakers, for the present and the future of the team. Everyone gets what they wanted, and now it's up to Kobe to take the team to the title once again.
I think the Lakers made the right choice. The Lakers have a fresh new look with young talented players. Im betting that the Lakers will play much better than the media is leading the public to believe...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting trenchteam:</div><div class="quote_post">I think the Lakers made the right choice. The Lakers have a fresh new look with young talented players. Im betting that the Lakers will play much better than the media is leading the public to believe...</div> Agreed, I think they are young, athletic, and now have the ability to be extremely big at every position at times during the game...and most of all, I believe that Caron and Odom are really happy to be here and to have this opportunity so I think this team will also have great chemistry...and team chemistry is something everyone always seems to underestimate
The reason I'm not longer posting in this thread is because someone tattle-tailed on me for "baiting". Anyways, I didn't bother reading those longs posts. So sorry for wasting your time. Which seems like you have a lot of. But I did read his last post because it was suprisingly short. Personally, I think it shows how lame he is by his constant "bragging" about how he's smarter than everyone else. What's really lame is that he does it in a basketball forum. When he's got nothing to say he comes back with, "Well, at least I'm smarter than you." Give me a break. Get off the high horse. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">so im tired of this rpitiful and crazyidiot talkin smack to me...they're not even on my level...not even close...and so to you two</div> Sad, sad, sad. Just sad man. You really need to get out more. You obviously have no social skills, "kid". P.S- If I get warned again then, "He started it!" I think that's what we said when were kids. P.S.S- I'd like to give myself a pat on the back for having one of the biggest threads on this forum. 71 posts! Just representing the Magic. My Final Words
whatever, get out and stay out you know-nothing punk...and as far as my social skills...i am one of the best social networkers in the college-scene...major corporations don't pay you money to tell them about the college-scene if you're not a dominant presence in it...think about that one for a second...loser
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SCBrian:</div><div class="quote_post">i dont think i have very many friends with IQ's below 130...but yah =P thats beside the point...and 133 is a very low figure for 'genius' level...true genius level should start at 160...at my elementary school alone, the IQ cutoff to get into the program was 145...and i don't think there were very many genius' in that class -.-...i'll just say this much though...by whatever standards you wanna put the genius cutoff at...i am still way past it </div> i'm guessing you don't have many friends? because only 8% of the population is projected to be over 133. 133 was the cutoff for Mensa in 1975, before they switched to the percentile method for evaluating potential members (right now you have to be in the top 2%). einstein for example, was 160. there must be something in the school lunch. or maybe you are just full of it.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SCBrian:</div><div class="quote_post">i dont think i have very many friends with IQ's below 130...but yah =P thats beside the point...and 133 is a very low figure for 'genius' level...true genius level should start at 160...at my elementary school alone, the IQ cutoff to get into the program was 145...and i don't think there were very many genius' in that class -.-...i'll just say this much though...by whatever standards you wanna put the genius cutoff at...i am still way past it </div> mmm... apparently Mensa does not agree with you. As you can see here http://www.us.mensa.org/join_mensa/testscores.php3 most IQ scores they accept for membership fall right around 130/132. This corresponds with the top 2%. There must be something in your school lunch. back to Shaq... doesn't he has a clause in his contract that specifies that he has to be the highest player on the NBA? If that's true, you don't need any more proof that he's a bigger baby than Kobe.
not everyone in mensa is a genius...those guys were sending me letters when i was in the 1st grade...my parents said its stupid...and it is...'oh boy...i pay money to be in a club with a buncha people with decent iq's'...and the cutoff for the class that i was in was 145...it was made up of 15 students throughout the san gabriel valley from grades 2-6 (so about 3 per grade...usually only one second grader, i was the one that was accepted coming out of first grade from the san gabriel valley)...145 was the cutoff, but if there were only 2 6th graders in teh class the year before, even if 10 kids tested over 145, only the top 2 scores would be chosen...but yah...someone who is mensa certified doesnt really impress me much...
I think that we can't really know how Kobe will play without shaq but with his desire and motivation I expect to see Him bring his A game every night.He's also only 25 and still developping so i can't see why he will turn out to be the next penny
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SCBrian:</div><div class="quote_post">not everyone in mensa is a genius...those guys were sending me letters when i was in the 1st grade...my parents said its stupid...and it is...'oh boy...i pay money to be in a club with a buncha people with decent iq's'...and the cutoff for the class that i was in was 145...it was made up of 15 students throughout the san gabriel valley from grades 2-6 (so about 3 per grade...usually only one second grader, i was the one that was accepted coming out of first grade from the san gabriel valley)...145 was the cutoff, but if there were only 2 6th graders in teh class the year before, even if 10 kids tested over 145, only the top 2 scores would be chosen...but yah...someone who is mensa certified doesnt really impress me much...</div> interesting again, because mensa doesn't accept anybody under 16 - where they making an exception with you since you were such a genius in 1st grade or those letters were for recruitment way in advance? not that i'm doubting you or anything... but if there's a program somewhere for kids that talented there must be a link to an article or something?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting cubanballer:</div><div class="quote_post">interesting again, because mensa doesn't accept anybody under 16 - where they making an exception with you since you were such a genius in 1st grade or those letters were for recruitment way in advance? not that i'm doubting you or anything... but if there's a program somewhere for kids that talented there must be a link to an article or something?</div> "American Mensa has many members under the age of 14. These individuals apply by submitting evidence of previous intelligence testing." http://www.us.mensa.org/activities/giftedc...en_testing.php3 dunno what those letters were, i never read them...my parents were basically just like 'more crap from mensa...who cares about mensa' -.-v seriously mensa encompasses the top 2% of the intellectual population of the world...thats not exactly the most exclusive crowd around... i've heard things about iq tests resulting in lower scores lately because the group that had an IQ over 145 is so statistically small that it can't accurately reflect something or other i dunno... i also just found out from my sister the iq cutoff for that program was 140...not that that makes a huge difference but yah...and the program was eliminated due to educational funding cutbacks awhile ago... i was iq tested 3 times...if you're really curious as to what those test scores were (i only know one actual number, and that is the lowest one) you can pm me cuz i don't feel like posting em here and having people say i am bragging about 'intelligence' or wuteverz... but im glad you at least did your hw when arguing with me haha
