The season hasn't even started. How can you make comparisions from how Kobe will do compared to Pippen. Bring it up after the season is done.
Well it ain't Shaqs fault that all the great centers were on their downhill or retired. But those are valid points about who they were playing. Either way, it would've been all G.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't think anyone is trying to take away these awards from Shaq. Shaq was the MDE during the the 3 title runs and he did earn all of the MVPs. The analysis was just looking outside the box and asking some interesting questions. 1. With the low level of competition Shaq faced in the NBA Finals, could the Lakers have still one with an above average center? 2. If Kobe faced lesser opponents and didn't have to share the offense with Shaq, would he have put up comparable stats to Shaq? 3. Who's more deserving of the MVP, the player who leads in scoring, or the player who makes the clutch plays, time and time again?</div> I thought that was what realdbneal was trying to do?? Like people said, Shaq wasn't playing against one player, he was playing against 2 or 3 guys, their weren't players as good as him because they played East teams, Shaq already dominated the good guy from the West before they got to the finals. Kobe was playing one on one, but lesser opponents doesn't neccesarily make it easier, I don't know what players would be considered lesser, but Kobe didn't even face any defensive stoppers in any of those, Reggie Miller and Iverson like real likes to use would'nt stop Ron Artest on offense. If the leading scorer wasn't doing his thing, their wouldn't have been those clutch moments for the clutch guy to rise to the ocassion in the first place. Sam Cassell isn't going to get anything over KG because he hits more clutch shots (just an example).
Without Sam Cassell, the Timberwolves wouldn't have had the #1 seed in the playoffs either, and probably wouldn't have gotten past the first round. And why do you keep saying, "They weren't good defensive players" when Kobe himself had to play defense against three great offensive players? I didn't say Shaq shouldn't have gotten all three MVPs...I just made an effort to show who he was playing defensively and offensively during those three years. Sure, maybe Iverson/Miller/Kidd weren't good defensively (Kidd was, to say the least), but what about offensively? Here's the problem with the NBA...nobody gets recognized for effort. Just because a guy scores like crazy shouldn't mean he's the MVP. I think whoever gets the Defensive Player of the Year award should be in the running for MVP, just because he was the best defender in the NBA. Everyone comes in here and tells all the Laker fans, "Told you! Defense wins games!" Well, if that is such a big deal, why is it that Shaq is STILL considered the most dominant player? His defense sucks now...I don't care how many times he scores, he can run like a sloth downcourt and still get bucked on by a driving PG (Billups was burning Payton pretty bad, but he easily drove and got his layup on Shaq, who couldn't jump in time because he no longer has any defensive awareness). So let me ask you this: if the best offensive player in the NBA scored 28 PPG, and grabbed 10 RPG...but had 10 turnovers a game and his defense was considered the worst...would you even consider the guy as an MVP? If so, I really have nothing else to say.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">His defense sucks now</div> Their's the key word, the Lakers didn't win those championsips, <u>now</u> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">NBA scored 28 PPG, and grabbed 10 RPG...but had 10 turnovers a game and his defense was considered the worst...would you even consider the guy as an MVP? If so, I really have nothing else to say.</div> Nope, but what player has ever averaged 10 turnovers a game? Also Shaq's defense was good before, and now it isn't great, but its not the worst, he's still a capable defender, so whats the point?
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">the best offensive player in the NBA scored 28 PPG, and grabbed 10 RPG...but had 10 turnovers a game and his defense was considered the worst</div> Why do you keep arguing that offense wins? Lets go back for a moment. Look at players like Jordan and Pippen. Both 1st Team Defense. *Remember Im not talking offense yet* Without a center they were basically able to win 6 titles because they played incredible defense. Jordan could create a turnover almost at will. The guy was a natural at this. The offense was provided because Jordan and Pippen made key defensive stops. Defense does win games. If Jordan and Pippen were all offense, I guarantee they would not have won 6 titles.
There's a reason why it's called the "Most VALUABLE Player". It's not the "Player with the hardest match-up" award. The MVP is given to the person who's the biggest difference maker in the series. In those series, it was Shaq who was the difference maker.
He's not saying he shouldn't deserve those MVPs...He was the main reason they won...He scored most of the points. but he's saying "don't think Shaq is so great because he won 3 Finals MVP titles"
What's not so great about dominating almost a whole team's frontline? No matter how lean it was? After all, it was a frontline who brought them to the Finals.
