Kobe's NBA Finals performance showed that he is no were never MJ,but he is probally the closet to him to this day.
[quote name='balluva']alrite, u c the nba bodies these days, almost all rookies have more muscle than mj had when he first came in. His body was like pure skin when he same in, he had hops, quickness and natural strength that was all he neeed to dominate. Now if ur body is not well conditioned like mj's was, then ur toast, ur dead, look at lebron carmelo wade, then all got beast like bodies, and kobe at 25 was huge. MJ had nice natural ability but if he was in the nba in that body, he'd be totaly meshed. Kobe is better but not by a lot.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting balluva:</div><div class="quote_post">alrite, first of all, jordan couldn't shoot the three til he was like 28 or somethin, 2nd they never played zone then so the middle was totally open, forget stats or awards, today the nba players are 10 times more ready when they get to the nba. theres also more talent and less white bois</div> who cares if he couldnt shoot the 3 til he was 28.... give me a player who can score 30 ppg on 50% fg shooting over a player who shoots 42 percent and scores 30 ppg which includes 3 point shooting... and they didnt play zone back then, but they played "bring your ass in the lane and get clobbered", which is twice as hard to play against than the weak zone the nba allows (if your gonna allow zone defense, dont restrict where players can stand, either let them stand where they want, or dont allow them to play it, its just stupid). players may be more ready now than they were before, but before that, you could use the same argument, so thats just pointless to say. jordan was above all his competition, period... kobe is not head over heels above his competition like jordan was, and to say because his competition is more ready is dumb... people were just as ready back then, but were not as talented, the game will continue to evolve, and one day players like kobe and tmac will be the average nba player <div class="quote_poster">Quoting balluva:</div><div class="quote_post">alrite, u c the nba bodies these days, almost all rookies have more muscle than mj had when he first came in. His body was like pure skin when he same in, he had hops, quickness and natural strength that was all he neeed to dominate. Now if ur body is not well conditioned like mj's was, then ur toast, ur dead, look at lebron carmelo wade, then all got beast like bodies, and kobe at 25 was huge. MJ had nice natural ability but if he was in the nba in that body, he'd be totaly meshed.</div> and if michael jordan were 25 today, he'd be in better condition than all of them, and would still dominate them... that's just the mentality and competitive drive of michael... michael would shut up his critics, kobe has not done that... no one gave the bulls a chance against the cavz, and michael shut them up... they said he couldnt play defense, and he came back and won DPOY.... they said he couldnt shoot and all he could do was drive.... he came back and brought to the game the deadliest fade away jumper EVER
nice way of puttin it, but still, have u watched clips of jordan when he was 25, no one new how to play D. holy crap, everyone assumed u could only drive rite, so when someone defended MJ whenver he faked rite, they would go for it. These days u cant even fake, ur either quick or not quick enuff. If bowen defended jordan at age 25 he would definetily get murked by the way, kobe at age 24 admitted he practised 8 hours a day in the offseason and took 1000 jumpshots. this was after the season he won his third just imagine that determination to upgrade something already amazing. He is truly competitive, and once again the talent and defence is a lot more better and aggressive than mjs time.
and its because of people like jordan that people like bowen had to learn how to play better defense and develop it more... when people started clogging up the middle to keep jordan out, what did he do? he mastered the fadeaway that, to this day, still can't be stopped if the right person is shooting it... but even the best fadeaway shooter today cant shoot it like mike did, and this is many years after he paved the way for it... if you took away jordans fadeaway, he would have developed another way to score <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">by the way, kobe at age 24 admitted he practised 8 hours a day in the offseason and took 1000 jumpshots. this was after the season he won his third just imagine that determination to upgrade something already amazing. He is truly competitive, and once again the talent and defence is a lot more better and aggressive than mjs time.</div> i dont kno why u keep going back to that argument... the point is, mj was so above his competition by such a wide margin, it was just silly... kobe is not that much above his competition and has people on his level, and people above it... and that is not due to the players today, its due to the evolution of the game that mj paved the way for
Just my opinion...Jordan at 25 years old was better than Kobe at 25. However, if Jordan was 25 years old today, Kobe would be a better player.
no but like we're talking bout mj at 25, all this man did was dunk dunk and dunk and shoot the mid range jumper, he didn't really have to do fadeways cause he could shoot straight up and no one could reach that high and blcok him or put a hand in his face. He never see young mj shooting with a hand in his face because he was too quick for players back then. Whenever you c kobe shooting these days always and hand in the face and during the 2002-2003 season he shot a ridiculous 45%. That is amazing for a gaurd. At 25 kobe has 3 rings. That itself says everything. I dont think mj would no how to react if he was second fiddle to shaq. It doens't matter how good MJ ever was, if shaq at his prime was in the same team. MJ would have to to be no.2. Kobe at 25 could shoot threes, fadeway, dunk over people(remember the one over chinaman MING) He has a nasty repertoireof sick and nasty moves. MJ at that time always had defenders who were just not quick enuff. HE'd constantly perform blow bys and dunk. Kobe couldn't always blow by someone in 2002-2003 even with his incredible quickness.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting balluva:</div><div class="quote_post">no but like we're talking bout mj at 25, all this man did was dunk dunk and dunk and shoot the mid range jumper, he didn't really have to do fadeways cause he could shoot straight up and no one could reach that high and blcok him or put a hand in his face. He never see young mj shooting with a hand in his face because he was too quick for players back then. Whenever you c kobe shooting these days always and hand in the face and during the 2002-2003 season he shot a ridiculous 45%. That is amazing for a gaurd. At 25 kobe has 3 rings. That itself says everything. I dont think mj would no how to react if he was second fiddle to shaq. It doens't matter how good MJ ever was, if shaq at his prime was in the same team. MJ would have to to be no.2. Kobe at 25 could shoot threes, fadeway, dunk over people(remember the one over chinaman MING) He has a nasty repertoireof sick and nasty moves. MJ at that time always had defenders who were just not quick enuff. HE'd constantly perform blow bys and dunk. Kobe couldn't always blow by someone in 2002-2003 even with his incredible quickness.</div> is that supposed to be a knock on his game??? you're gonna sit here and say since he was so much better than his competition, he's not as good? like i said, if it wasn't for players like jordan and shaq, defenses wouldnt have developed to what they are today... same goes with wilt... and if you honestly believe kobe was the primary factor in the 3 title runs the lakers had, you dont even deserve to call yourself a true basketball fan... and your chinaman remark is out of line... whats the point of calling him chinaman ming??? i think everyone would know who you were referring to if you just called him yao.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting typemilitant:</div><div class="quote_post">Damn, 30+ppg.. That proves that the players of the past can whoop the players now.. It's like we're sucking as the NBA evolves.</div> Actually, the competition is just tougher now. IMO. Wilt averaged 50+ ppg one season. I'll try to get the rest of his stats. He just monsters over everyone in the NBA even Jordan.... So does that make him the greatest ever?
Back in the late 80s, Jordan dominated basketball...he was what brought basketball back to life. Incredible moves, clutch shots, Slam Dunk contests, All-Star games, and even playing with incredible centers (Patrick Ewing, Hakeem Olajuwon, etc). He played against Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas, Charles Barkley, and Dennis Rodman all waiting for him to drive the lane or make a move to the hoop. Jordan was amazing in the 80s and 90s...nobody was better. However, Jordan's physical play and leaping ability would catch up to him in 2000-present day, because basketball has come a long way since then. He would definitely have to adjust his game...but as of now, Kobe would be better now than a 25 year old Jordan playing today, no doubt. BUT... Jordan in the 80s and 90s > Kobe today...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting typemilitant:</div><div class="quote_post">Damn, 30+ppg.. That proves that the players of the past can whoop the players now.. It's like we're sucking as the NBA evolves.</div> lol wat are you saying??? i honestly HIGHLY DOUBT michael jordan could have dominated the way he did against todays stars... look at how easily players got faked, im sorry.. dont mean to knock the so called "best of all time" but it should be "best of his time" the reason why nba scoring has dropped is because defence has CLEARLY INCREASED a very great deal... not that offensive productivity has reduced.. Also most of the players who were also considered amazing were past their prime... magic johnson, larry bird, etc.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting allstar44:</div><div class="quote_post">lol wat are you saying??? i honestly HIGHLY DOUBT michael jordan could have dominated the way he did against todays stars... look at how easily players got faked, im sorry.. dont mean to knock the so called "best of all time" but it should be "best of his time" the reason why nba scoring has dropped is because defence has CLEARLY INCREASED a very great deal... not that offensive productivity has reduced.. Also most of the players who were also considered amazing were past their prime... magic johnson, larry bird, etc.</div> lets not forget about the bad boys that jordan had to play against... and all time leading shot blocker that jordan had to play against... not to mention, ewing, barkley, the admiral, etc. etc. defenses were around then too, its just people knew how the get the ball in the basket too... teams like the bad boys won titles w/ defense, and teams like the knicks made the playoffs and a few finals appearances because of their defense
aite man, i c ur a huge MJ fan, and u like MJ a lot better. Mj is also my favourite player not because of his tite game but because of what he did for basketball, commcercials, everything, he was just a boost in the economy. But at age 25 of both the amazing stars im going with kobe because he has all the natural talents and abilities that MJ had. What ur explaining to me is what Mj did for the NBA, and obviouslyi what u say and is true and putting enthusiasm on the facts adn events are justified. BUT at age 25, kobe is better than MJ, in terms of skill level and natural abilities. Kobe has and sure he takes more shots than shaq but unlike MJ, he always has a lilttle hesitation of shooting the ball because shaq is always demanding for it. And how he treats and reacts to shaqs actions are really mature. MJ and kobe and 25, KOBE is better. MJ did more for the league, mattafact, the world. but kobe is better than mj at 25. We're talking bout mj and kobe at 25. Kobe was more conditioned, had a greater repertoire, in terms of competition, yeah ur rite. he's not ridiculously above like MJ was, but at 25 Kobe is beter. AI has an awesome dirty sick first step and so does Kobe. MJ had a nice one, but i feel that kobe is quicker at 25. i c what u mean, but like john salley said, a real player who played in and for the NBA. he even mentioned that using elbows as keeping the dribbler in front of u was legel that time. These days u cant even use ur hand even for a sec without getting called reach. The bad bois were pretty much aggressive players but they used a lot of elbws and if they still existed with the exact same players at the exact same age they would not be able to play that kind of harsh defence now without the whole team being fouled out <font color="red">EDIT BUTTON EDIT BUTTON EDIT BUTTON EDIT BUTTON EDIT BUTTON EDIT BUTTON EDIT BUTTON EDIT BUTTON!!!!!!! It is there for a reason! Quit double,triple and quadruple posting. I think you better read/re-read the site guidelines because I don't think you quite grasp the concept of the double posting rule. ~Dre</font>
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting balluva:</div><div class="quote_post">aite man, i c ur a huge MJ fan, and u like MJ a lot better. Mj is also my favourite player not because of his tite game but because of what he did for basketball, commcercials, everything, he was just a boost in the economy. But at age 25 of both the amazing stars im going with kobe because he has all the natural talents and abilities that MJ had. What ur explaining to me is what Mj did for the NBA, and obviouslyi what u say and is true and putting enthusiasm on the facts adn events are justified. BUT at age 25, kobe is better than MJ, in terms of skill level and natural abilities. Kobe has and sure he takes more shots than shaq but unlike MJ, he always has a lilttle hesitation of shooting the ball because shaq is always demanding for it. And how treats and reacts to shaqs actions are really mature. MJ and kobe and 25, KOBE is better. MJ did more for the league, mattafact, the world. but kobe is better than mj at 25.</div> if ur talking about skills, then yes, a lot of people in todays league are more skilled than michael because of what the game has evolved in to... but if you're talking about playing the game, MJ is better than kobe at 25 and anyone else that ever played the game... the things the guy did on the court, regardless of competition, can not be matched... if you're basing this off what people can do physically and skillfully, then thats a total different thing... hot sauce can do things kobe can't do, does that make him better than kobe? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">i c what u mean, but like john salley said, a real player who played in and for the NBA. he even mentioned that using elbows as keeping the dribbler in front of u was legel that time. These days u cant even use ur hand even for a sec without getting called reach. The bad bois were pretty much aggressive players but they used a lot of elbws and if they still existed with the exact same players at the exact same age they would not be able to play that kind of harsh defence now without the whole team being fouled out</div> and using elbows to defend people make it harder for the offensive player... so jordan had to play against harder defenses, and kobe is benefitting because people can't touch him... so obviously, salley is an idiot as we stated at the beginning of this post
yo man i no salley sound like a dumby, but this man actually played in the NBA. All we could do is talk man so i think that salley is more entitled to knowing the more true facts because he was actually in the NBA experiencing all those official rules and whatnot. People who've never been in the NBa talking trash bout ne nba player is not rite
he didnt experience nothing.... he sat on the bench and watched the game just like i sat on my couch and watched the games
he was upfront and attended practices mon, all we could do is watch the games. Being in something is nevertheless way more closer than just watching.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting balluva:</div><div class="quote_post">Mj is also my favourite player not because of his tite game but because of what he did for basketball, commcercials, everything, he was just a boost in the economy.</div> Wow... I sure like players who make commercials, too. -- You gotta think back... back to the playgrounds that Kobe was playing in... trying to be MJ... he's still trying to be MJ. The fact that MJ set, and still holds, the bar pretty much shows that MJ is the better player. I don't see how maturity and Kobe go in the same sentence, either. This offseason, and this past season in general, both show exactly how immature Kobe is. (And don't get me wrong... I'm a kobe fan) He didn't [and continues to refuse to] buy into the team concept... he'll pass it up only when he can't get off his own shot (and really, how often is that?)... and single-handedly drove his coach and his "teammate" off the team that was so successful, and by all means, should have dominated this season. (4 hall of famers and you DON'T win??? gimme a break). And that whole argument about if MJ was 25 in today's league... You can't even speculate that sort of thing. Until Kobe is the "greatest thing that ever happened to basketball"... I'll take MJ anyday... and I think millions of the basketball fans that Jordan brought to the game would agree.
