alrite, u gotta a good point, mayb went overboard to sound smart by saying kobe was mature. but Like when someone is asked who do u think is better at basketball. Like stats are good but like comparing stats would just be a basic generalization. So we determine their skill level by stating how good they are on the court. Kobe at 25 can shoot the rock with the best of them. MJ basically just slashed to the hole almost all the time already showing that the NBA that time didn't have nearly as much athletism as they do now. Kobe at 25 can dunk, dribble and play d with the best of them. MJ could do that at a time when people didn't no how to play D that well. These days kobe alwayys gets hurt from defenders who play awesome defence. SUch as that cheap bastard Bruce bowen. Always getting those freaking cheap shots on offensive players. Someone really has to blow by him and give his team a fucking facial. But back to the point. Kobe has put up with cheap defenders and still made them look silly and he's also made some offensive players look silly with awesome D. EX: C the lock on hamiltons jumpshot in finals, that was determination.
from the looks of it, no one wants to shed the MJ image its like....MJ fans just cant accept the fact that there will be a player better then him someday even 5-10 years from now there could be a player who averages amazing stats, gets rings but it'll always be the same thing...."MJ changed the game" of course, whats there left to change now? almost every aspect of basketball has been mastard by someone atleast.....unless someone creates an unstoppable brand new shot like a sideways fadeway jumper or something, ppl wont get the "JORDAN" label off the league..... im not a Jordan hater, i love the mans game, i think what he did for basketball was amazing, avergagin 32, along with 8 apg? (correct me if im wrong) amazing. however, i find it comical that some people cant shed the fact that there will be someone better then MJ Kobe at 25 has achieved more then MJ rings wise but the indivisual accomplishments belong to MJ howver, MJ had the team all to himself in the 1980's..... and one fact people will FOR SURE forget next year when the lakers wont get as high as they expected is the fact that it took MJ from 1984 to 1991 to lead his team to the finals and finally win it ppl r so quick to judge Kobe and its getting to the point where its ridiculous....he is driven just like MJ was, he resembles MJ on the court, his only fault is that he cant sue his teammates as well as he should but that takes some getting used to as well.....when BOTH of thier careers are done, then thats when the comparisions should start to compare em now is just dumb cause Kobe would lose out on many aspects...
To answer who's a "better player," what that means needs to be properly defined. Too many people measure how good a player is purely on stats. This is highly misleading when comparing players from different eras who played in vastly different systems. Moreover, for a legitimate comparison to be made, they need to have had equivalent roles on their respective teams. This simply has not been the case. MJ, at 25, was the focal point of his team's offense. Kobe, at 25, shared that designation with Shaq. I'm interested to see what Kobe does next year. I expect that if you adjust his stats to take into account the league-wide decrease in points, assists, and rebounds compared to in the 80s, his numbers will rival MJs. Skill-wise on the offensive end, he has all the tricks MJ had, plus better three-point range.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting balluva:</div><div class="quote_post">alrite, u gotta a good point, mayb went overboard to sound smart by saying kobe was mature. but Like when someone is asked who do u think is better at basketball. Like stats are good but like comparing stats would just be a basic generalization. So we determine their skill level by stating how good they are on the court. Kobe at 25 can shoot the rock with the best of them. MJ basically just slashed to the hole almost all the time already showing that the NBA that time didn't have nearly as much athletism as they do now. Kobe at 25 can dunk, dribble and play d with the best of them. MJ could do that at a time when people didn't no how to play D that well. These days kobe alwayys gets hurt from defenders who play awesome defence. SUch as that cheap bastard Bruce bowen. Always getting those freaking cheap shots on offensive players. Someone really has to blow by him and give his team a fucking facial. But back to the point. Kobe has put up with cheap defenders and still made them look silly and he's also made some offensive players look silly with awesome D. EX: C the lock on hamiltons jumpshot in finals, that was determination.</div> MJ slashed to the hole all the time because it couldnt be stopped... and it wasn't because defenses sucked, its because they've never seen anything like it before and therefore didn't know how to defend it... when they finally did take it away, what did he do? develop a fadeaway that still has yet to be matched by anyone, and this is years after the bar had been set... And if you think bruce bowen is a cheap player, then you really dont know basketball, this guy plays better on ball defense than kobe bryant, and perhaps anyone else in the league (ron artest included). But defenders like bruce bowen do not work players harder than defenders like joe dumars, who made the opposing 2 guard play hard on both ends of the floor. in response to spawn: there will some day be a better player than MJ, it just doesn't appear to be kobe... if you asked me to pick 1 guy in todays game that will surpass MJ, that will be lebron, because he has done something no one ever has... come in the league right out of hs, and put up ridiculous numbers for an 18 year old... kobe has not shown me anything that even puts him on the level of MJ... From what i've seen in lebron, he should be the best player in the nba before 2010
It couldn't be stopped because no one new how, no one was quick enuff to. We aren't talkin bout his fadeway yet, he dind't really perfect that untill he was like 28 or 29. So u were saying so they finally learned how to stop it meaning all players now no how to stop a first step like his concluding that Kobe is better because he gets past who no how to play wicked sick defence. And joe dumars wasn't as nearly as athletic as Bowen. Bowen cant score but he fairly quick and could jump and he makes his defender or offensive player work on both floors mayb not as much as joe on offence, but on defence he is better.
i agree Bowen is an excellent on ball defender but he is cheap as hell this is the same guy who stuck his foot out right when VC was about to land after taking a jumpshot.....most likely because he was frustrated that Vince was lighting him up in that game (raps were winnin by like 9 then VC was taken out of the game)
lol, jigga, it almost seems to me u have a grudge for kobe. he a wicked sick player with talents like MJ and he will surpass him. You need athletics for super stardom in NBA. Lebron accomplished a lot but that dont mean he better than some other star. Kobe won 3 rings before hitting 23 i dont think ne one has accomplished that feat. wouldn't that make him unique?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting spawn:</div><div class="quote_post">from the looks of it, no one wants to shed the MJ image its like....MJ fans just cant accept the fact that there will be a player better then him someday... to compare em now is just dumb cause Kobe would lose out on many aspects...</div> I definitely agree with that... people like to cling to things... and it's understandable. But as of this very minute, I don't think there's anyone that can hold a candle to MJ and what he's done for the game. -- I was talking about this the other day with a friend of mine... and I think, when it's all said and done... (speculating on the future...) I think Kobe's as close to Jordan as it gets in today's NBA... and by the time he retires, could very well raise the bar. (he's got the same end-of-the-game passion that makes him virtually unstoppable) The only person I'd hold to the same possibilities... is Lebron. He's just plain scary... and I can't wait to tell my kids in a decade about how I watched LeBron turn from an 18 year old rookie, into the king of the league.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting balluva:</div><div class="quote_post">It couldn't be stopped because no one new how, no one was quick enuff to. We aren't talkin bout his fadeway yet, he dind't really perfect that untill he was like 28 or 29. So u were saying so they finally learned how to stop it meaning all players now no how to stop a first step like his concluding that Kobe is better because he gets past who no how to play wicked sick defence. And joe dumars wasn't as nearly as athletic as Bowen. Bowen cant score but he fairly quick and could jump and he makes his defender or offensive player work on both floors mayb not as much as joe on offence, but on defence he is better.</div> what?? seriously... i don't know what you're trying to say here. And also... you gotta put into account that Jordan actually went to College until he was a Junior... so instead of talking "age..." you might want to consider "years in the League." ... just my opinion.
lebron is a pure crazy beast. But like he came 8 years after the first high school player ever came in . i dont think he coudl do as well as kobe or tmac because he dont got there athletic ability. Lebron points are a lot on fast breaks. Rookies fiend fast break point. Look at Vince in rookie season, pure fast break, well not pure most a lot. Lebron has energy and enthusiasm now but look at kobe and tmac they dont run nemore and they still score more than lebron. But who nos lebron just mite get the quickness gift from god and become another tmac. P.S TMAC is too quick for his height
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting balluva:</div><div class="quote_post">lebron is a pure crazy beast. But like he came 8 years after the first high school player ever came in . i dont think he coudl do as well as kobe or tmac because he dont got there athletic ability. Lebron points are a lot on fast breaks. Rookies fiend fast break point. Look at Vince in rookie season, pure fast break, well not pure most a lot. Lebron has energy and enthusiasm now but look at kobe and tmac they dont run nemore and they still score more than lebron. But who nos lebron just mite get the quickness gift from god and become another tmac. </div> Are you kidding?? Try counting how many strides it takes Lebron to get up and down the court. James is quick... just doesn't look like it, because he's HUGE. Just for the record... he came WELL after "8 years after the first high school player ever came in..." Darryl Dawkins, anyone? You should also try watching Lebron play more before you start saying that all his points are scored off fast breaks... it just doesn't come across as a very educated viewpoint (IMO).
^ (referring to the balluva dude) all high shcool rookies depend on athelticm in thier first year in the league because they can use it to thier advantage on the older guys i doubt that KG was playing the way he does now in his rookie year.. for lebron, look at it this way hes only 19, he just came str8 outta highschool yet managed to avg 21, 5 and 5 (correct me if im wrong) read those stats again not to mention the amount of pressure he had on him and he hasnt even developed a consistent shot yet 21 ppg all on str8 fast breaks and mid range J's is pretty amazing... VC had that game in his rookie year and avged 18.... Lebron has more then enough time to devlop his game....in a couple of years, if his work ethic is on the levell of MJ and Kobe's, he will develop an unstoppable J as well as cause havoc on O and D.... howver we still dont know if hes clutch or not, that is a big factor but LBJ= surpasses any other rookie that came outta highschool
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting balluva:</div><div class="quote_post">tx swift for the nice comment u added. But is he really an amazing half court player?</div> He may not be "an amazing" halfcourt player, yet... but 2 points is 2 points is 2 points, you know what I mean? ...This is just an opinion... but there's no doubt in my mind that he's got the work ethic to perfect every facet of his game... (i've read some articles (can't believe everything you read, but...) that saying that he's been working for about 8 hours a day on his low-post moves and continuing to work on his jumper). Also.. he'll be under Larry Brown's wing in Athens... and everyone learns a few new tricks under LB... look out. (History in the making)
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting balluva:</div><div class="quote_post">It couldn't be stopped because no one new how, no one was quick enuff to. We aren't talkin bout his fadeway yet, he dind't really perfect that untill he was like 28 or 29. So u were saying so they finally learned how to stop it meaning all players now no how to stop a first step like his concluding that Kobe is better because he gets past who no how to play wicked sick defence. And joe dumars wasn't as nearly as athletic as Bowen. Bowen cant score but he fairly quick and could jump and he makes his defender or offensive player work on both floors mayb not as much as joe on offence, but on defence he is better.</div> i dont kno why u keep making arguments against yourself... even after they learned how to stop/contain/slow down the slasher jordan, he was still able to blow by his defender when he needed to... look at game 6 of the 98 finals in the final stretches... he took the ball to the rim at will, and still popped the jumper in guys eyes when he needed to... if you dont think joe dumars was a premier defender, you must not have watched him play... people like joe dumars, alvin robertson, mookie blaylock, etc were all great defenders, they were just forgotten because they were never superstars... 5 years after bruce bowen leaves the league, he'll be remembered the same way the guys i just mentioned are remembered (except dumars, since he actually had game). <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">lol, jigga, it almost seems to me u have a grudge for kobe. he a wicked sick player with talents like MJ and he will surpass him. You need athletics for super stardom in NBA. Lebron accomplished a lot but that dont mean he better than some other star. Kobe won 3 rings before hitting 23 i dont think ne one has accomplished that feat. wouldn't that make him unique?</div> i have no grudge for kobe... i openly admit he is one of the top 5 players in the league, and arguably the best guard in the league. you can be as athletic as you want and have nothing to show for it in terms of how great of a player you are... how many players get drafted because of their athletic ability and dont play 5 years in the nba? larry bird wasnt athletic at all, and he'd be the first one to tell you that, yet he is one of the greatest to ever play the game... and lets not get this wrong, kobe didn't win 3 rings before turning 23, he helped win 3 rings <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">lebron is a pure crazy beast. But like he came 8 years after the first high school player ever came in . i dont think he coudl do as well as kobe or tmac because he dont got there athletic ability. Lebron points are a lot on fast breaks. Rookies fiend fast break point. Look at Vince in rookie season, pure fast break, well not pure most a lot. Lebron has energy and enthusiasm now but look at kobe and tmac they dont run nemore and they still score more than lebron. But who nos lebron just mite get the quickness gift from god and become another tmac. </div> ^im not even gonna reply to that post.... nothing there makes sense
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting balluva:</div><div class="quote_post">well sorryy for typing too quickly with these beast like fingers.</div> just re-read before you post...
