<div class="quote_poster">Quoting balluva:</div><div class="quote_post">well sorryy for typing too quickly with these beast like fingers.</div> that actually made me laugh for some reason lol but yah ur post on lbj didnt really make sense
Who is better? Career wise, its Michael. Kobe is a talented, talented individual. In fact, of all the players in the league, he is perhaps the most Jordan-esque. However, that doesn't mean he is better. There are however, parts of Kobe's game that are more refined than MJ's at a similar age. Range, being one. Jordan has the better percentage, but Kobe has better range on his jumper than Michael did at the same age. Remember, it wasn't until Michael came back from his first retirement that he really worked on this aspect of the game. MJ did hit those several threes in the Blazers series, but he was far from a great long range shooter at that point in his career. What he was, was streaky. He got on a hot streak. But what MJ had, that Kobe didn't, was an amazing display of quickness. Kobe is quick. Very quick. But most people forget, that before Jordan bulked up, he was quite skinny. But he had Allen Iverson type quickness. Injuries began to plague MJ, so he bulked up, and lossed some of that freakish quickness. And MJ has always been a better defender. Kobe is a great defender, but Michael's defense, as well as Pippen's, allowed a "lockdown" of the perimeter unseen since. Sure, Iverson in his rookie year crossed up Michael, but thats bound to happen a few times in such a long career. Jordan displayed an amazing court sense on defense, as well as buying into the team defense theme. Kobe is a great defender in his own right, but Michael edges him there. Both are clutch players. There is no denying that. But one thing that has continued to puzzle me is the finals. Kobe disappeared. Not only that, he wasn't working with Shaq either. Would Michael have disappeared like that when his team needed him the most? Kobe has the killer instinct. There is no denying that. But after watching him in the finals, I begin to wonder, if he lacks "it." I don't know how to describe "it," but there is something different in the way that MJ could propel his team to victory, while Kobe struggled. Kobe is a great, great player. Let me re-iterate that first and foremost. Being called a step below Michael Jordan is not a sign of disrespect. In fact, in the NBA today, the player most similar in terms of skill and mindset to MJ, is Kobe. Until Kobe finishes his career, to which then I can look back upon and compare it, I will take Michael Jordan.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting jiggax23:</div><div class="quote_post">ron harper also played w/ both guys... phil jackson coached both guys... why don't u ask them who is better? john salley has no say, he never PLAYED period... he just happened to wear the same uniform as them... i bet you if you asked him which pistons team had better D... todays pistons or "HIS" bad boys pistons, he'd say his bad boys pistons... but he won't use the stupid argument that they were allowed to be more physical back then... as the game evolves, so do the rules, its not an excuse that they were allowed to do this or not allowed to do that...</div> You know why this is funny, he (Salley) uses this to say Kobe is a better defender, but what about on offense, it means players were more physical on Jordan and it was harder for him to score, and he still shot a higher percentage than Kobe , common say both sides, that's just stupid. Also didn't 39 and 40 year old Jordan after taking a long break off basketball and not being nearly as athletic average 20 PPG against these more physically strong and athletic guys, so how much more would he do at 25, he won't be worse. It's like saying Karl Malone wouldn't be effective in this time, if Karl was still 25 he'd be avraging his 30 PPG. I also hear the argument their were no good defenders or physical enough defenders in Jordan's time , well didn't Jordan play in 97-98, at the age of 35, and averaged 28.7 points, 5.8 rebounds, 3.5 assists, 1.72 steals, and shot 46.5%, and guys like Doug Christie, Eddie Jones (younger), Bruce Bowen, Payton, Ben Wallace etc were all there, I guess they weren't good defenders then. ....even the guys like EJ, Payton, Christie, Dumars, Micahel Cooper etc, Jordan had been playing since the earlier 90's, and if their weren't any good defenders in his time, why were Alonzo Mourning, Dikembe Mutombo and Gary Payton the ones winning defensive player of the year in the late 90's?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Vintage:</div><div class="quote_post">Both are clutch players. There is no denying that. But one thing that has continued to puzzle me is the finals. Kobe disappeared. Not only that, he wasn't working with Shaq either. Would Michael have disappeared like that when his team needed him the most? Kobe has the killer instinct. There is no denying that. But after watching him in the finals, I begin to wonder, if he lacks "it." I don't know how to describe "it," but there is something different in the way that MJ could propel his team to victory, while Kobe struggled.</div> Preach. I love Kobe's game but he did dissapear for 4 outta the 5 games. He only had game 2 and just totally disspeared after. He couldn't find any way to get pass Tays D. I never seen MJ shut down like that in his whole career. This right here is what breaks these two apart. MJ IMO is better then Kobe at 25. It's close, but I gotta go with the great one too. But I do truely believe Shaq meant what he said about Kobe possibly could be better then Mike. Like Shaq said, he just needs to find away to make his teammates better. Those games where Kobe gets points and dimes is what he needs to do all the time. The Lakers always wins when he has a 28 to 30+ and 7 to 10 dimes.
Vintage really put it well, also.... Too many people think because a player is superior in natural talent and ability, they're better, Dominique was a pretty athletic and naturally talented player to, but didn't have the same mental approach to the game as Jordan. The mental aspect of basketball plays a larger part than many are taking it for. Also Jordan is even more athletic than some of the players now. Tracy McGrady is also a guy that has great athletic ability and natural talent, and one of the top in the league, but he isn't the best player even though he's so long, has great ball handling ability, has very good range, is a very good rebounder, and if willing cna be a defensive stopper. The mental aspect. Also some seem to be infering that their were no or very limited athletic guys in MJs time as if everyone was Allan Houston, or as if all the defensive guys now are so much more athletic. Dominique, Spudd Webb, Dee Brown, Larry Nance, Champna, Shawn Kemp before he was fat, Sampson, Miner (for a while), younger Mcdyess played in MJ's older days, David Robinson, Hakeem, and many others, and MJ also played against some crayz big men. Bruce Bowen is no more athletic than someone like Joe Dumars
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Prodigy:</div><div class="quote_post">Man Kobe averaged 30 pts last year, while sharing the wealth with Shaq too...So shut the hell up. What the hell did he do without pippen? Get past the first round...hit a sorry shot against the Cavs... He's great..but Kobe can do whatever he can... *Chris Rose: Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan? **John Salley: I played with both Kobe and Michael. I would have to say that Kobe Bryant is the better player. Kobe has a much better shot, handles the ball better, and just has more tricks to go along with his game. And just look at his career...he already has 3 rings and he's going for his fourth this year. *Chris Rose: Yea because he's playing with Shaq, the most dominant big man ever, right? **John Salley: Wrong. Playing with Shaq of course makes it easier for Kobe, but I don't thing Michael would have done as well as Kobe is, playing with another superstar. If you think about it, Jordan had someone who rebounded for him (Rodman) and brought leadership to the team (Pippen). Other than Jordan, the Chicago Bulls didn't have any real good offensive players. Jordan did the scoring all by himself. Where in Kobe's case, there's Shaq, who's another superstar that wants to score points, or else he gets upset as we've seen many times before. Kobe shares the ball with Shaq, and still puts up big numbers by himself, which is what amazes me. Kobe puts up the same numbers as Jordan did, and Kobe's playing with Shaq. If Kobe was on a team without Shaq, he would score 45 points per game. *Chris Rose: O.K. You made some good points, but you agree that Jordan is a better defender, right? I mean, he won the defensive player of the year award several times. **John Salley: No way, I dont agree! Back in Jordan's days, you were allowed to put your elbows on the guy you were defending. Now in Kobe's days, even if you just touch a player like that, you get called for the foul. *Chris Rose: O.K., whatever John. Well here's my last argument, and if you don't agree with me on this one, we're gonna have to test you for drugs. **John Salley: Man, shuttup. I played with Jordan and Kobe. Did you? *Chris Rose: No, but I do know that when it's late in the game, you want Jordan taking the final shot. **John Salley: How can you say that? You just say that because Jordan made the game- winning basket on your sorry Cleveland Cav's team back in the early 90's. Man, for the next show, we should put a clip together showing Michael Jordan's game- winning shots and Kobe Bryant game- winning shots and compare the two. Jordan might have more game- winners, but Kobe still has 10 years left in this league, and he's not even at his best right now. Another thing of course is Kobe's trial case. I don't think anyone in the history of basketball could do what Kobe is doing traveling from court to court, scoring 30+ points. Nuff said...he played with them...he knows better.</div> John Salley is a noob who can even dunk no more. How would u trust him when he always sat on the bench. What a noob. MJ 100% better than Kobe. Kobe might have shots that go in for him but he's not gonna have legacy like MJ. Trust me 20 years later, you show Kobe and MJ's highlight and they will say MJ played better.
L.James is playin for cleveland. He'll score huge as long as he is there. I think the kid is a bit overrated. Thats just me. I hate hype. Now Melo, he is da man! should have co-rookie of the year with Lebron.
Wow, this is just so surprising, SCBrain hasn't posted his arguement on why he thinks Kobe is better.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting bangofan13:</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe is not better MJ is end of story.</div> Care to back that up any? Why is Jordan better than Kobe?
MJ has better ball handling and plays better D.Their both great cluch shooters, but MJ has more poise. As for what John Salley said about tricks. Look at the Dunk Contest MJ was in, and then say that sentence.
Look, that WAS MIKE's TEAM of course he's gona score, of course he's gonna get the awards. IT WASN't KOBE's team....IT WAS SHAQS...IF THE OFFENSE WENT THROUGH KOBE, HE WOULD PUT UP SIMILAR NUMBERS. Look at his highlights when he was 25....They were dope...but the defense playing him was sorry...Tall skinny, lanky white/black guys were gettin' dunked on...He came before his time... Today, it is a lot harder to drive in and such...The players are more athletic, and physically bigger..more muscle...and it's hard, especially with the zone. During that time he was like T-mac, or AI....ESPN, newspapers, etc. all saying that he can score but can't win the ring.... HE was compared to Clyde Drexler...(Clyde, The dream would beat the bulls...even the 99-00 Laker team would beat the bulls). He was a perfect Salesman for the NBA...and that's what they did...Cheap calls, and lettin' things go for the man...for the $$$$$ BLing bling... I'll bet you that if MJ came out as a rookie today...he would just be like everyone else...Kobe, Pierce, LBJ, T-mac, AI, Vince Carter, etc. He was just way to athletic, his style was ahead of the time. This argument is stupid, because it wasn't even Kobe's team...but in the 02-03 year he scored like 30 pts per game with him not being the primary player...That's dope. We will see Kobe's jordanesque abilities next year. PEACE
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Ace2k2:</div><div class="quote_post">YA John Salley sucks. Ask Ron Harper. Even Phil Jackson would be better than John Salley</div> Just off-topic...but did you know that about three years ago, Phil Jackson was hitting hook shots from the free throw and three-point line during Laker practices? I was watching it in a clip...and it was crazy. Phil would destroy John Salley lol.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Prodigy:</div><div class="quote_post">Look, that WAS MIKE's TEAM of course he's gona score, of course he's gonna get the awards. IT WASN't KOBE's team....IT WAS SHAQS...IF THE OFFENSE WENT THROUGH KOBE, HE WOULD PUT UP SIMILAR NUMBERS. Look at his highlights when he was 25....They were dope...but the defense playing him was sorry...Tall skinny, lanky white/black guys were gettin' dunked on...He came before his time... Today, it is a lot harder to drive in and such...The players are more athletic, and physically bigger..more muscle...and it's hard, especially with the zone. During that time he was like T-mac, or AI....ESPN, newspapers, etc. all saying that he can score but can't win the ring.... HE was compared to Clyde Drexler...(Clyde, The dream would beat the bulls...even the 99-00 Laker team would beat the bulls). He was a perfect Salesman for the NBA...and that's what they did...Cheap calls, and lettin' things go for the man...for the $$$$$ BLing bling... I'll bet you that if MJ came out as a rookie today...he would just be like everyone else...Kobe, Pierce, LBJ, T-mac, AI, Vince Carter, etc. He was just way to athletic, his style was ahead of the time. This argument is stupid, because it wasn't even Kobe's team...but in the 02-03 year he scored like 30 pts per game with him not being the primary player...That's dope. We will see Kobe's jordanesque abilities next year. PEACE</div> I'm sorry but obviously, they didn't play at the same time so all we got to use to compare them is.....Stats. I believe 80's basketball was much much better than now. I might be the only one to think that tho.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post">Just off-topic...but did you know that about three years ago, Phil Jackson was hitting hook shots from the free throw and three-point line during Laker practices? I was watching it in a clip...and it was crazy. Phil would destroy John Salley lol.</div> LOL i would love to see that clip you got a link to it?
Kobe has 8 years of experience at age 25. Michael had 4 years of experience at age 25. Kobe had Shaq. Michael had scrubs. Kobe won 3 championships because of Shaq. Michael won being eliminated because of scrubs. Kobe had inferior statistics. Michael was more consistent in all games specifically in every quarter due to his poise, leadership, and determination. Most of the time, Kobe is lame for the first 3 quarters due to "not trying" and plays like Kobe Bryant in the 4th. Kobe has won 1 individual award which was the allstar trophy which doesn't mean jack. Michael won the best awards such as 1 MVP, 1 DPOY and the ROY. Success: KB due to Shaq Statistics: MJ Mentality: MJ Consistency: MJ Awards: MJ 4-1 MJ. MJ wins.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chungster:</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe has 8 years of experience at age 25. Michael had 4 years of experience at age 25. Kobe had Shaq. Michael had scrubs. Kobe won 3 championships because of Shaq. Michael won being eliminated because of scrubs. Kobe had inferior statistics. Michael was more consistent in all games specifically in every quarter due to his poise, leadership, and determination. Most of the time, Kobe is lame for the first 3 quarters due to "not trying" and plays like Kobe Bryant in the 4th. Kobe has won 1 individual award which was the allstar trophy which doesn't mean jack. Michael won the best awards such as 1 MVP and 1 DPOY. Success: KB due to Shaq Statistics: MJ Mentality: MJ Consistency: MJ Awards: MJ 4-1 MJ. MJ wins.</div> heheheh Ya a lot of Kobe fan boys go along saying Kobe was the main reason the Lakers won those 3 championships and he shouldve got those finals MVP. Shaq was the Man in the Laker dynasty. KObe was his sidekick. MJ never had the big man Kobe did.
