<div class="quote_poster">Quoting explosive:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm thinking of going to the Houston-Orlando game in the regular season just to boo T-Mac. He's worthless as far as I'm concerned after what he did this past off-season.</div> Tracy McGrady may have given the fans a few 'oooohs' and 'ahhhs,' but what has he really done for the franchise? He's done nothing but take the easy way out and complain along the way. Yes, he's dropped 50 points and amazed the fans, but thats about it. He's great for the fan attraction, but in reality he didn't help the franchise as much as some of our former players. He was also pretty good with the media; "It's great to finally get to the second round," "5% of the NBA players are homosexual." He's a great talent, but he wasn't a great player in Orlando. Oh well, he's gone. Hopefully his move to Houston will change his attitude and work ethics, because I wish him all the best. If we're going to complain about missing anyone, it should be Darrell Armstrong. Flash led us to a 42-40 season with his 'Heart and Hustle.'
In defense of T-Mac, some of his quotes were taken out of context. I'm going to the LAC-ORL game for sure. Probably the LAL one too. I'm guess they're tickets won't be as expensive now that the Big Diesel is gone.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Ice:</div><div class="quote_post"> Tracy McGrady may have given the fans a few 'oooohs' and 'ahhhs,' but what has he really done for the franchise? He's done nothing but take the easy way out and complain along the way. Yes, he's dropped 50 points and amazed the fans, but thats about it. He's great for the fan attraction, but in reality he didn't help the franchise as much as some of our former players. He's a great talent, but he wasn't a great player in Orlando. </div> Can you name one player that did something for our franchise besides Shaq? By your reasonings, it seems like Shaq was the only great player in Orlando.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Einitials:</div><div class="quote_post">Can you name one player that did something for our franchise besides Shaq? </div> Darrell Armstrong. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">By your reasonings, it seems like Shaq was the only great player in Orlando. </div> And from your logic in every single post, you make it seem like Tracy McGrady is the only great player - EVER.
What did Darrell Armstrong do for the franchise? He led us to a first round exit. What a great accomplish! According to your criterion, Shaq is the ONLY great magic player because he is the only player who has done something for the team. He took the magic to the finals and eastern conference finals. Can you name another player that took us that far? Heck, can you name another player that took us pass the second round? I think not.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Einitials:</div><div class="quote_post">What did Darrell Armstrong do for the franchise? He led us to a first round exit. What a great accomplish! </div> WOW, that sounds familar. *cough cough* Tracy McGrady. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> According to your criterion, Shaq is the ONLY great magic player because he is the only player who has done something for the team. He took the magic to the finals and eastern conference finals. Can you name another player that took us that far? Heck, can you name another player that took us pass the second round? I think not. </div> I'm not talking about how far someone took us nor how many points they have scored. I'm talking about leadership, hustle play, ETC. Players that actually get their teammates involved, and don't talk trash about them if they make a mistake. As far as I'm concerned, Tracy McGrady failed to become the vocal leader and since DA left, we were expecting him to do just that. He sported the 'C' on his uni, but sure as hell didn't play like one. I'll keep naming players to make you feel better though.. Nick Anderson was one of the best players we had back in the day. The true Magic fans know what he did to our franchise, and we appreciate him for that.
Why are you talking about Tracy Mcgrady? I haven't mention Tmac once in any of my posts, but since you keep bringing Tmac up, here is a little fun fact. 2000-2001: Led his team in Pts (26.7), and Ft (5.5 ). Second in Asts (4.5), RB (7.5), Blocks (1.5), St with (1.6). 2001-2002: Led his team in Pts (25.6), Asts (5.3), RB (7.9), Blocks (1.0), and Ft (5.5). Second in St with (1.6). Third in 3p with (1.4) 2002-2003: Led his team in Pts (32.1), Asts (5.5), RB (6.5), St (1.7), 3p (2.3), and Ft (7.7). Second in Blocks with (0.8) 2003-2004: Led his team in Pts (28), Asts (5.5), St (1.40), 3P (2.6), FT (5.9). Third in Rb (6.0) BlK (.6) (looks like tmac did more for the team than just score 50 points in a couples of games ) I seriously doubt a lazy, heartless, undevoted player would be capable of doing this for his team. I can post the same question about all of the other magic players to invalidate them as being great MAgic players. What has anyone really done for the franchise? Besides shaq of course. Darrell Armstrong and Nick Anderson never took us anywhere. Why should they be consider great Magic players? They played hard each game and they both possess leadership qualities, but in the long run we either ended up ias a medicore team or worst.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Einitials:</div><div class="quote_post">Why are you talking about Tracy Mcgrady? I haven't mention Tmac once in any of my posts, but since you keep bringing Tmac up, here is a little fun fact. 2000-2001: Led his team in Pts (26.7), and Ft (5.5 ). Second in Asts (4.5), RB (7.5), Blocks (1.5), St with (1.6). 2001-2002: Led his team in Pts (25.6), Asts (5.3), RB (7.9), Blocks (1.0), and Ft (5.5). Second in St with (1.6). Third in 3p with (1.4) 2002-2003: Led his team in Pts (32.1), Asts (5.5), RB (6.5), St (1.7), 3p (2.3), and Ft (7.7). Second in Blocks with (0.8) 2003-2004: Led his team in Pts (28), Asts (5.5), St (1.40), 3P (2.6), FT (5.9). Third in Rb (6.0) BlK (.6) (looks like tmac did more for the team than just score 50 points in a couples of games )</div> Stats don't matter!! I'm not mentally ill, I know what he's done, in case you didn't know I follow the Magic very closely. I could go to nba.com and pull up the very same stats you are throwing at me. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I seriously doubt a lazy, heartless, undevoted player would be capable of doing this for his team. </div> Darling, I never said he was lazy, heartless, or undevoted. However, I did say he lacks the leadership skills that players such as Darrell Armstrong, and Nick Anderson had. Thats the point I was trying to make but you obviously didn't pick up on that. Thats the point I'm trying to make - You don't have to score a billion points to earn respect from most diehard fans. It's all about the 'little things' that make a player important to a team. Overall McGrady is the better talent and thats very obvious. However, I have more respect for Darrell and Nick, for putting it out on the court every single night. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What has anyone really done for the franchise? Besides shaq of course. Darrell Armstrong and Nick Anderson never took us anywhere. Why should they be consider great Magic players? They played hard each game and they both possess leadership qualities, but in the long run we either ended up ias a medicore team or worst.</div> And in the end we were medicore with McGrady as well. Actually, we were worst than medicore last season. Anyways, I really don't understand the point you were trying to make. McGrady is a superstar and these other players I've mentioned (Anderson, Armstrong) are medicore. And the difference between McGrady and the others is that they possess qualities McGrady doesn't.
T-MAC: 46 points, 10 Rebounds, 13 Assists...16-27 in a game. Not untypical of Mac's abilities in the least. For in the entire scheme of things, he was a scapegoat. I think the roster has gotten worse every year. Look at guys Gabriel passed on, and guys he picked. Passed: Zach Randolph Jamaal Tinsley, Tony Parker and Gilbert Arenas Ron Artest, Andrei Kirilenko, Emmanuel Ginobili, traded Horace Grant and two future second-round draft picks to Seattle for the draft rights to Corey Maggette along with Billy Owens, Dale Ellis and Don MacLean. This would have been a marvelous trade, had they not given up on Maggette after just one year. Orlando reacquired former pick Johnny Taylor, along with Ron Mercer and Chauncey Billups in exchange for Tariq Abdul-Wahad and Chris Gatling. None of the players remained with the team the following season. Billups went on to become an star point guard in Detroit. The Penny/Webber trade finally pays off with the 5th pick in the draft, courtesy of the Golden State Warriors. Unfortunately, it?s the weakest draft class in the last 10 years and the Magic draft a shooting guard from South Dakota. Everyone knows the story. The Magic took a chance on injured free agent Grant Hill. I think it?s safe to say that move hasn?t quite worked out. As part of the acquisition of Hill, the Magic traded Ben Wallace and Chucky Atkins. In lieu of resigning Wallace, the Magic decided to keep Bo Outlaw, and John Amechi. I?d say that backfired To replace Atkins in the backcourt, Orlando signed Troy Hudson. Then of course, like Atkins, let him go two years later when they signed Jacque Vaughn. Oh, I almost forgot. In a move that helped redefine the center position (cough, cough), the Magic traded Matt Harpring for future Hall of Famer, Andrew Declercq. That one is still paying benefits. Coming off a sub par season once filled with promise from the signings of Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady, the Magic looked to solidify their frontcourt weaknesses and shore up their need for a young point guard. Enter Steven Hunter. Who? And Jeryl Sasser. John Gabriel had the audacity to refer to Sasser as a ?point guard stopper?. If by ?point guard stopper?, you meant he stopped you from drafting Jamaal Tinsley, Tony Parker and Gilbert Arenas ? you were right. With the point guard position still unresolved, the Magic re-upped Troy Hudson. He went on to have a great season with the Magic, who ? shocked they had developed yet another young point guard to take the reigns from Darrell Armstrong ? decided not to resign him. So that?s Chucky Atkins? gone. Troy Hudson? gone. Nice call, Gabe. What?s past is past, right? The Magic know they need a big man. They?re going to go out and draft one. Sure, they screwed up and gave away the 9th pick in the draft, along with Bo Outlaw for sweet stroking swingman, Jud Bucheler. And of course, the Grant Hill thing hasn?t really panned out. But they need a big man. They know this. traded for Rashard Griffith ? some fat guy who hasn?t been good enough to play in the NBA the past 7 seasons ? and Mario Kasun ? some foreign guy that wasn?t good enough to make the team after summer workouts? Phew. For a second there I was beginning to think he really blew it. And by all accounts this is pretty much Mac's fault that the team is mediocre right?
In case you didn't get the memo, John Gabriel was FIRED or what they call, "stepped down." I agree with almost everything you said except for 3 points: 1) FIFTEEN or more teams passed on those same players during the draft so go post the same crap on their message boards. And Doc can also be blamed for those horrendous picks. So go to the Celtic Boards and complain. 2) I've said this a million times but 95% of the GM's would've traded Wallace for G.Hill at the time. It was a freak injury. It's all hindsight. 3) The Penny/Webber deal finally paid off? It paid off NINE years ago when he and Shaq took us to the NBA Finals. Webber hasn't even been there in his career! Why are you complaining over someone who was FIRED months ago?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting crazytown:</div><div class="quote_post">In case you didn't get the memo, John Gabriel was FIRED or what they call, "stepped down." Why are you complaining over someone who was FIRED months ago? </div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree with almost everything you said except for 3 points: 1) FIFTEEN or more teams passed on those same players during the draft so go post the same crap on their message boards. And Doc can also be blamed for those horrendous picks. So go to the Celtic Boards and complain. 2) I've said this a million times but 95% of the GM's would've traded Wallace for G.Hill at the time. It was a freak injury. It's all hindsight. 3) The Penny/Webber deal finally paid off? It paid off NINE years ago when he and Shaq took us to the NBA Finals. Webber hasn't even been there in his career! </div> LOL, did you get the memo. Gabriel was demoted to player scouter, which is another horrible move by the Magic IMO. 1. Doesnt matter who passed on them. The truth is, the Magic could have used all of those players to help them, and instead picked up scrubs who arent even in the L anymore like Jeryl Sasser, Ryan Humphrey, lol Steven Hunter, Jacques Vaughn, Corey Hightower, etc.... and I can go on. I also agree Doc was partly to blame, but then again management wasnt all that bright anyhow. 2. Unwritten rules in the NBA, never trade a big for a small. Never give an injured player a max contract. You say 95% of the GM's would've traded Wallace for G.Hill at the time, but everyone wasn't exactly jumping at the opportunity to get him anyhow. It wasnt a freak injury, but he didnt take care of it right trying to comeback too early, and managed to get 93 mil from a team he's played less than a season for, and somehow managed to play less games than a guy McDyess who's broken his knee and had surgery about 3 times in the past few years. You say hindsight, but I say, if you start off wrong you end up wrong. 3.It paid off losing in the finals, and having the most dominant player in the game bolt your team, then you lose Penny, then you pick up a guy with a broke leg, and get turned down by TD. Some luck huh. All in all, blame Mac is you will, but it was the Magic mangement that got it's hands on 3 nice superstars/all-stars (Penny/Shaq/McGrady), and now have ended up with Francis Mobley and Cato. Enjoy!
1. Oh, I'm not denying they were AWFUL picks. I didn't like any of those picks at the time. BUt I'm not the GM so all I can do is complain about them. I said Hunter was a flop the moment he got drafted. Now he's a FA with no team interested in him. 2. Ummm..you trade a big if the guy is an All-Star. Nobody thought Big Ben would be THIS good. And there were only TWO Hill as willing to sign to, the Magic and the Piston. I think the Bulls were the ONLY team who had enough money to pay him but he didn't want to play there. It WAS a freak injury. Nobody expected him to be out this long. People thought it was a simple sprain. He was mis-diagnosed. BTW- The Magic are a better TEAM now without T-Mac. And I stress the word TEAM because T-Mac has no clue what that word means. Who is your "team" anyways? Probably wherever T-Mac goes. Because 3. I don't much about C-Webb but can you tell me how Finals he has been to in his career. The guy is a choke-artist. Even you know that. BTW- The Magic are a better TEAM now without T-Mac. And I stress the word TEAM because T-Mac has no clue what that word means. Who is your "team" anyways? Probably wherever T-Mac goes. Because It's obvious you don't much about the Magic except what the General Public already knows.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting crazytown:</div><div class="quote_post">1. Oh, I'm not denying they were AWFUL picks. I didn't like any of those picks at the time. BUt I'm not the GM so all I can do is complain about them. I said Hunter was a flop the moment he got drafted. Now he's a FA with no team interested in him. 2. Ummm..you trade a big if the guy is an All-Star. Nobody thought Big Ben would be THIS good.</div> Big Ben, just like Maggette and other players were given the chance, and as I said, they could have helped. Instead the bungling management does what it always does, run from real talent. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And there were only TWO Hill as willing to sign to, the Magic and the Piston. I think the Bulls were the ONLY team who had enough money to pay him but he didn't want to play there. It WAS a freak injury. Nobody expected him to be out this long. People thought it was a simple sprain. He was mis-diagnosed.</div> Hill's injury wasnt freak. He was playing in the season and playoffs with a hurt leg, most likely damaging it even more. ALL COMMON SENSE tells one, that you DO NOT give a hurt player a max contract. DET obviously didnt want Hill at the time being that they took a couple of non all stars from ORL. It's almost like DET has Jerry West for GM and ORL got raped in the end. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">BTW- The Magic are a better TEAM now without T-Mac. And I stress the word TEAM because T-Mac has no clue what that word means.</div> You can say they are a better team now because of Mac actually, because not only would non of those players ever have come over to play for the Magic, but it was Mac's value that helped land the main core. Even then your starting guard didnt want to play there. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Who is your "team" anyways? Probably wherever T-Mac goes. Because 3. I don't much about C-Webb but can you tell me how Finals he has been to in his career. The guy is a choke-artist. Even you know that.</div> What difference does this make? It has nothing to do with the blunders of the Magic management, and how they failed to put together a complete team, but instead changed it year after year until it broke down, then they used Mac as the scapegoat. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">BTW- The Magic are a better TEAM now without T-Mac. And I stress the word TEAM because T-Mac has no clue what that word means.</div> And your point for repeating this is....what? Please give me some proof. He did what he was asked to do. Unfortunately he buckled under the pressure of something we all already know, no one player can win it all. Why couldnt the team realize that simple fact and get the man some help? They are probably smart enough to know that right? Or maybe they are resting on the hope that Johnny "moral victory" Davis will lead them past the 1st round? Mac just about led the team in every category, so what you're saying is just to slam his name with no kind of proof whatsoever, which invalidates that statement. Actually if not for him, ORL probably would have had to sell the team. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Who is your "team" anyways? Probably wherever T-Mac goes. Because It's obvious you don't much about the Magic except what the General Public already knows. </div> Right, although I just broke down for you what the management has done down the years, named players noone even knows exist anymore that played in ORL, knowing the team was in discussion to be sold for some time, knowing the current team, coach, gm, player scouter, and owner, ex-star players, etc... But I know nothing. It's obvious I dont know more than the general public. Thank you for sharing your exalting enlightenment with me, because it's obvious I dont know more than you do.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And your point for repeating this is....what?</div> That was a typo. I was copying and pasting. I didn't realize the my whole post was out of sequence. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">DET obviously didnt want Hill at the time being that they took a couple of non all stars from ORL.</div> You really don't much about how trades work, do you? The Pistons wanted to get whatever they can get for Hill as he announcd he was not going to sign him. He wanted to get a max contract and Pistons were the only team that can do that. It's called a Sign and Trade. Go look it up. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">DET obviously didnt want Hill at the time being that they took a couple of non all stars from ORL. </div> Off topic, but comparing rape to a a sports trade is pretty stupid. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What difference does this make? It has nothing to do with the blunders of the Magic management, and how they failed to put together a complete team, but instead changed it year after year until it broke down, then they used Mac as the scapegoat.</div> Look, nobody in the Magic Management or REAL Magic Fans regret trading C-Webb for Penny. So quit crying about it. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Why couldnt the team realize that simple fact and get the man some help? They are probably smart enough to know that right? </div> Once again, you really don't know about NBA trades, contracts, players, etc, do you? How can they get T-Mac any help when they have a player who doesn't play and eats $93 million? It's called a salary cap. Go look it up. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Right, although I just broke down for you what the management has done down the years, named players noone even knows exist anymore that played in ORL, knowing the team was in discussion to be sold for some time, knowing the current team, coach, gm, player scouter, and owner, ex-star players, etc... But I know nothing. It's obvious I dont know more than the general public. Thank you for sharing your exalting enlightenment with me, because it's obvious I dont know more than you do.</div> You come out of nowhere, post all these things we ALREADY KNOW ABOUT. All you did was preach to the choir. We know J.Gabriel made some awful decisions. The Magic have Weisbrod making the key decisions. You really think because Gabriel is a "scout" that would mean he'd continue drafting our players? He might give some input but I'm sure the Magic will put very little credence to it. You didn't "break down" anything ground-breaking. BREAKING NEWS: The Earth is round.
