<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">if anything, rasheed is underrated He can give a 25, 11 and 4 nite</div> Rasheed give you that a night? What basketball are you watching, he's never averaged 20 points, more than 8 rebounds, or up to 3 assists a game. When that 25, 11 and 4 happens, call me up. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Vince Carter is by far the most overrated player in the NBA. I really am surprised that nobody said his name yet. It is not even close. He is supposedly the best player on the Raptors, and the Raptors play better when he is injured. I truely believe if he did not have that dunk contenst, not as many people will be talking about him. What besides the dunk contest has he won? Umm...nothing.</div> The Raptors were 0-9 when he was injured this year, doesn't look much better to me, does it to you? To say all he's done is win a dunk contest is not too smart. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">tony parker, did you see him in the los angeles/spurs playoff games 1st 2 he did good, last 4 he did shit. he choked on free throws everything i mean ya he did good in the season but championships are won in playoffs and he choked</div> Tony Parker is only overatted when people think he's a top 5 PG which is just stupid, apart from that he's not, but their are people that think so. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting s@bz:</div><div class="quote_post">By doing that, he is showing up his own teammates, which will eventually lead to on the court issues. Nobody else got asked about their opinion about a new coach hiring, but Vince Carter wants to be included?</div> I think that's relative to him being the franchise player, and the management promising to include him in the decisions, but I guess not. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting kevinduncan_21:</div><div class="quote_post">Thank You Chungster, I been tryin to tell everyone how underrated he was! If he was on the lakers everyone would say vince carter is the best player in the world!......Which leads me to say KOBE BRYANT, Steve FRANCIS and TRACY MCGRADY are way too overratted...ppl say kobe is da best in the league....if taychaun prince can guard him anymone can! And t-mac he's overrated because he da scoring champ...I think they should make a rule where u cant average more points than your WINS!!!!!!!!!Steve Francis just suks he's a great player but he averages 15 ppg, and i never seen him hit a clutch shot....ive jimmy jackson...not him....he never seems to take over games..defenses are not meant on stopping him...he's not A THREAT.</div> You need to watch more basketball, Steve Francis has hit clutch shots, and the reason he averaged 15 PPG is because of Van Gundy's new system, maybe you should look through his career and see all his numbers. Tayshaun is at most an average defender, it was the whole Pistons defense that shut him down, and Kobe himself lauching from the perimeter too much, not just Tayshaun. Tayshaun was jsut a puppet in the master plan. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post">Sorry VC fans, but I'm going with Vince too. He was ROY, and he won a Slam Dunk contest...but the man hasn't done much since. His Slam Dunk performance was the best I've ever seen...but just because he won, it doesn't make him great. Come on...Brent Barry won it. Desmond Mason won. Dee Brown. JR Rider. These guys aren't great players...good...but not great. Don't get me wrong...I'm not putting him in the same category as them, but Vince could'nt spell out consistency on a piece of paper...and you can put him on a team with Yao and McGrady, and he wouldn't be the top player from there. That's where his All-Star votes catch up to them...he's like a Highlight Reel, and he gets those votes for his energy in games...but he's nowhere near the best clutch player, the best shooter, or even overall player in the NBA right now...</div> Vince got his popularity form the dunk contest, he didn't get named a good player because of that. He got named a good player and a top SG because about 3 years ago the top SG's were Vince, Iverson and Kobe, and their were the others. Also if you check out the players, Carter was no less consistent than Paul Pierce, Allen Iverson, or Tracy McGrady, common. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post">Carter has a huge vertical, correct? You can say he can pull down boards over Kobe...so why does Kobe pull down 5.5 rebounds a game, while Carter only pulled down 4.8? What about passing? Carter's assists are lower, also...and this is the same guy who should be drawing "triple teams" like you say...and passing out to wide-open players. It's not that way...when he gets doubled, or defended really well, he will take it in anyways. Kobe has hardly ANY shooters on his team...especially this year and in the playoffs...so his only option is the aging Shaq.</div> Kevin O'neil the Raptors coach told the players not to go after offensive boards, Carter has always been more of an offensive rebounder than defensive, hence the drop in rebounds per game, but how many people care enough to find out? He's passing out to wide open players who can't make shots, the Raptors were 23rd in the league in FG attempts, and 28th in FG%. If you want to compare, the Lakers were 4th in the league in FG%, and 7th in FG attempts. More shots being taken, and your team hitting a higher percentage will usually lead to more assists, wouldn't it? When your team plays a defensive style with the wrong players for that style, and you also have players like Milt Palacio and Micahel Curry who can't make a shot if their lives depended on it getting minutes, then it's not as easy. Also when all the team runs is Isolation Carter or post up Jalen Rose with no ball movement, nothing, it doesn't help either. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post">Also considering the stress Kobe had to absorb this last season...he still came out and put aside everything to give the team 110%...but Carter doesn't always do that, does he? If you do actually watch the Raptor games, you'd know what I'm talking about...because the only three teams I watch are the Lakers, Raptors and Cavaliers...here recently anyways...because I have NBA TV. I really think that Carter needs to turn it up a bit, and stop trying to feed off of hype and how well he can jump...because his whole persona right now is his dunking ability. He's doing well, but the Raptors aren't winning, and he definitely isn't outperforming Bryant...and by the way, the word "clutch" isn't drawing a "triple team" as you claim, and then passing it out to a guy to shoot it...I could do that if I was in the NBA. How about a three pointer on a smothering Ruben Patterson? Or another one, fading back, catch and shoot...on two defenders? How about one on Rip Hamilton in the Finals? What about a half-court shot, or a 20-footer on the Hornets? Haha...Vince isn't close to clutch compared to Kobe...and he's not even close to being a great player.</div> Carter doesn't try to feed off the hype of how well he can jump, if you think all he does is dunk or he tries to dunk a lot, you really don't watch Raptors games, just the little NBA TV 2 minute feeds, and NBA TV doesn't even show Raptors games much unless it's Raptors NBA TV which it won't be considering your area. To say his whole persona right now is his dunking ability is just ignoarant, sorry but that's all it is. I don't know what this has to do with Bryant, when was anyone saying Carter was better than Kobe, when did the media ever say that, people don't even consider him a top 5 SG, how is that being overatted, doesn't even make sense. I doubt you'd be triple teamed , no for on the real, I wouldn't say he's more clutch than Kobe, thats stupidness, but to say he's not clutch is blasphemy in itself. Some plays were the shot he hit over Dion Glover, the spinning layup and 1 against Atlanta in crunch time, blocking Jason Terry's possible game winner, hitting a three to win the game agaisnt NOH, half court bank to end the half agaisnt NOH too I think, and many more, so he also made big plays, but who really cares. You're making yourself sound like on of those people that say all Carter can do is dunk, yet his 2nd and 3rd years in the league he shot 40+% from three point range, he has a career 38.6% three point accuracy, career numbers of 24-5-4, and averaged 21-4.8-4.8 this year.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You call him getting all those technicals as having passion? I call it not being able to control yourself and being foolish. He knows he is hurting his team by getting ejected. How is he helping his team at all by not having him on the floor? If he was any kind of a leader or team player, he would sacrifice himself for the team and losing your temper is not the way to do that.</div> It's hard for players who play on emotion to completely stop the habit they have gone through. The guy is very passionnate which causes the techinals. Luckily for Detroit he has calmed himself down, alot of that is due to having a great coach to teach him. Mo Cheeks just isn't a good motivator. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">No way is he underrated. He's still considered to be one of the best power forwards in the league. A statement that I think is untrue but nonetheless that is how he is seen as. You mention that he was the missing piece, but how many players in the league couldn't have filled that role? The Pistons were already a very good team and title contenders because of their already stifling defense without him there. Just because he filled a role in a championship team doesn't mean that he is as valuable as some might think. Rip, B. Wallace and Billups were much more responsible for them winning the championship than Rasheed was.</div> How many players could fill that role? NOT MANY...Rasheed's defensive abilty was the reason in the big turn around. It's obvious all you do is look at the boxscores when making your opinion on Sheed. He does alot more than what shows up in the boxscore each game. His offensive game isn't the most important thing for the Pistons, It's what he does on the defensive end that wins games and yes Sheed is more underrated than overrated as you seem to think, his defense is overlooked..has been his whole career but In Detroit he has taken that to a whole new level. Basic fact, the Pistons would not of got close to an NBA title without Rasheed Wallace. He's a difference maker on both ends. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Back when he was with the Blazers, he was the leader on a very, very good team. But where did he take them to? He was incapable of leading a team then as he is now.</div> He took them to the playoffs every season and was 1 game away from the NBA finals in 2000, I say thats quite a successful little run he had there.
Kobe Bryant- Everyone keeps calling this guy the next Micheal Jordan just because he knocked down three clutch shots all of a sudden. The guy is insecure about his game having childlike reactions to the media where he jacks up a ton of shots one game and then takes none because of the media. The guy has kicked off Shaq and Phil Jackson and thats an obvious sign he has some personal goals other than trying to help the team. Peja Stojakovic- Totally an effecient scorer when put in the right system, but Ero's are heavily flawed in other area's of their game. The guy is 6'10 and doesnt even average a block a game. Anyone can cook him on a first step and he's a poor rebounder for his size. He's taller than Ben Wallace for crying out loud! Shawn Marion is 6'7 and is way better than him in every aspect of the game except for shooting. I can't belive he was even a MVP canidate. As far as being underrated I'd have to say Rasheed Wallace. This guy brings alot to the Pistons, being able to score in the post making opposing teams keep an eye on him. His presence and heart has boosted the Pistons' confidence by a boatload because even when they are down 20 points, this dude is always yelling and encouraging his teammates. He's even training Darko and I give thanks to 'Sheed. He's a great defender and he shares the glass pretty well with Ben Wallace. You couldn't ask more from him. I dont know about Vince, he's been in and out of the mix lately.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AllNet:</div><div class="quote_post">It's hard for players who play on emotion to completely stop the habit they have gone through. The guy is very passionnate which causes the techinals. Luckily for Detroit he has calmed himself down, alot of that is due to having a great coach to teach him. Mo Cheeks just isn't a good motivator. </div> The thing about Raheed is that he thinks that all the referees in the league have it in for him. When you yell and swear at the referees at every single call against you, you are going to develop a reputation which is solely Rasheed's fault and no one else's. If he was so passionate about winning and such a team player, did you ever see him once argue about a "bad call" for one of his teammates? I sure didn't and that means he only looks out for himself. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting AllNet:</div><div class="quote_post"> How many players could fill that role? NOT MANY...Rasheed's defensive abilty was the reason in the big turn around. It's obvious all you do is look at the boxscores when making your opinion on Sheed. He does alot more than what shows up in the boxscore each game. His offensive game isn't the most important thing for the Pistons, It's what he does on the defensive end that wins games and yes Sheed is more underrated than overrated as you seem to think, his defense is overlooked..has been his whole career but In Detroit he has taken that to a whole new level. Basic fact, the Pistons would not of got close to an NBA title without Rasheed Wallace. He's a difference maker on both ends. </div> How is it a fact that the Piston's wouldn't have made it close to an NBA title. If I'm not mistaken, the Pistons won their division last season and made it to the conference semifinals finals without him. This year they were already considered title contenders with one of the best defenses in the league; a distinction they had before Rasheed even joined them. Just because he contributed to a championship team, he is all of sudden considered such a good player. You would not be defending Rasheed so vigorously had he not been traded to the Pistons and won a championship. Can you honestly tell me that you thought so highly of him back when he was with Portland. He might have gotten his temper in check (for now) but he is essentially the same player as he always was. Players don't just change over night. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting AllNet:</div><div class="quote_post"> He took them to the playoffs every season and was 1 game away from the NBA finals in 2000, I say thats quite a successful little run he had there.</div> Why wouldn't they make the playoffs with one of the most talented teams in the league? I don't see how he "took" them to the playoffs, when his teammates had something to do with them making the playoffs too. With a payroll as high and a team as talented as the Blazers were, they were expected to make the playoffs every season, anything else would've have been a disappointment.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The thing about Raheed is that he thinks that all the referees in the league have it in for him. When you yell and swear at the referees at every single call against you, you are going to develop a reputation which is solely Rasheed's fault and no one else's. If he was so passionate about winning and such a team player, did you ever see him once argue about a "bad call" for one of his teammates? I sure didn't and that means he only looks out for himself.</div> Rasheed has many times argued a call for his team-mates and gone to the ref asking him about it. He sticks up for his team-mates in every area of the game, he has everyone's back. We all know that Sheed has a reputation with the refs, that won't be changed but the last few seasons he has not got the right amount of fair calls. He is a very passionate player which leads to the techinals, he can't change the way he plays or acts. It's in his heart to play with alot of energy and keep others around him up. His heart and passion should not be questioned <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">How is it a fact that the Piston's wouldn't have made it close to an NBA title. If I'm not mistaken, the Pistons won their division last season and made it to the conference semifinals finals without him. This year they were already considered title contenders with one of the best defenses in the league; a distinction they had before Rasheed even joined them. </div> Yes Pistons won the division title last year but there was simply not enough firepower to get that close to a title or have that inside edge. The defense obviously was very good but not as good as It currently is. Without Sheed, Pistons were not considered title contenders, they were considered a top tier east team that would win one round and out. Which is what would of happened this year If the Sheed trade never took place. Everyone saw the way NJ took last years team apart. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Just because he contributed to a championship team, he is all of sudden considered such a good player. You would not be defending Rasheed so vigorously had he not been traded to the Pistons and won a championship. Can you honestly tell me that you thought so highly of him back when he was with Portland. He might have gotten his temper in check (for now) but he is essentially the same player as he always was. Players don't just change over night. </div> Sheed didn't just contribute to winning a championship, he was one of the main reasons It happened. Rasheed has always been a good player, you are talking as If he is some talented player that never puts up decent numbers or had an impact, when thats clearly not the case. Would I be defending Sheed had he not been a Piston? Of course but not nearly as much..mainly because I never realised how damn good he is on the defensive end. That is what got me to take notice of his game. Rasheed is not the same player he was in Portland, forgetting his temper aside, his overall production on both ends has by far more importance than it ever did with the Blazers. Stats on the boxscores don't ever tell the full story about a player. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Why wouldn't they make the playoffs with one of the most talented teams in the league? I don't see how he "took" them to the playoffs, when his teammates had something to do with them making the playoffs too. With a payroll as high and a team as talented as the Blazers were, they were expected to make the playoffs every season, anything else would've have been a disappointment.</div> Yes the Blazers have always had talented players but they needed Sheed to get there. Infact without him most years, they would be fighting for a top 10 pick. He got all the defensive pressure every game and had his handsfull matching up against the elite west power forwards. He actually helped made their defense respectable.
If "rating" is based on All-Star ballots, the most overrated are 1) Steve Francis (Shouldn't have even made the team) 2) Vince Carter (Hollow numbers, lives on reputation) 3) Yao Ming (Come on, he's not better than Shaq) If "rating" is based on money paid to the guy vs. what he's done 1) Grant Hill 2) Alan Houston 3) Penny Hardaway 4) everyone else on the Knicks (hehe)
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AllNet:</div><div class="quote_post">It's hard for players who play on emotion to completely stop the habit they have gone through. The guy is very passionnate which causes the techinals. Luckily for Detroit he has calmed himself down, alot of that is due to having a great coach to teach him. Mo Cheeks just isn't a good motivator. How many players could fill that role? NOT MANY...Rasheed's defensive abilty was the reason in the big turn around. It's obvious all you do is look at the boxscores when making your opinion on Sheed. He does alot more than what shows up in the boxscore each game. His offensive game isn't the most important thing for the Pistons, It's what he does on the defensive end that wins games and yes Sheed is more underrated than overrated as you seem to think, his defense is overlooked..has been his whole career but In Detroit he has taken that to a whole new level. Basic fact, the Pistons would not of got close to an NBA title without Rasheed Wallace. He's a difference maker on both ends. He took them to the playoffs every season and was 1 game away from the NBA finals in 2000, I say thats quite a successful little run he had there.</div> Mo Cheeks is a good motivator, just because Rasheed was with Bonzi and they both influenced each other badly, don't come down on Cheeks. Rasheed was the missing piece, and not many players could've filled that role because all the other guys like him are better and Detroit wouldn't be able to get them. His defense has not been ovelooked, just because he's not on a team you support doesn't mean it was, in Portland people knew he was a great defender, but he was always an underachiver. Almost half a season and a playoff run doesn't suddenly make him underatted after all those years of underachieving. If Rasheed was the center on Indiana instead of Jeff Foster he would've been that missing piece too, or the center on the Spurs instead of Rasho or on Minnesotta instead of Kandi and Johnson. The Pistons wouldn't have gotten to the championship without any of their starters. Also Portland had on of the best and deepest teams in the league at every position, that's why they went far, and they should've won a championship.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Mo Cheeks is a good motivator, just because Rasheed was with Bonzi and they both influenced each other badly, don't come down on Cheeks. </div> Thats not what my people in Portland tell me, many say he is a bad coach who is too soft on his players. You need to be a tough minded coach to motivate guys to play. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">His defense has not been ovelooked, just because he's not on a team you support doesn't mean it was, in Portland people knew he was a great defender, but he was always an underachiver. Almost half a season and a playoff run doesn't suddenly make him underatted after all those years of underachieving. </div> Actually many never took notice of Rasheed defense till he got traded to Detroit, obviously he has a better chance to show it there but many experts when talking about Wallace annoyed the fact he was a really good defender. As an overall player he may not be underrated but for what he brings (the little things, that don't show up on the boxscore) to the Pistons, he is by some. Rasheed will always be known as an underachiever, that won't change purely because coming out of UNC he was really expected to be one of the top PF's to ever play the game. He had all the tools to do so but sadly he has never lived up to his talents. Nor has he ever been in the right situation, until now.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post"> Rasheed give you that a night? What basketball are you watching, he's never averaged 20 points, more than 8 rebounds, or up to 3 assists a game. When that 25, 11 and 4 happens, call me up. The Raptors were 0-9 when he was injured this year, doesn't look much better to me, does it to you? To say all he's done is win a dunk contest is not too smart. Tony Parker is only overatted when people think he's a top 5 PG which is just stupid, apart from that he's not, but their are people that think so. I think that's relative to him being the franchise player, and the management promising to include him in the decisions, but I guess not. You need to watch more basketball, Steve Francis has hit clutch shots, and the reason he averaged 15 PPG is because of Van Gundy's new system, maybe you should look through his career and see all his numbers. Tayshaun is at most an average defender, it was the whole Pistons defense that shut him down, and Kobe himself lauching from the perimeter too much, not just Tayshaun. Tayshaun was jsut a puppet in the master plan. Vince got his popularity form the dunk contest, he didn't get named a good player because of that. He got named a good player and a top SG because about 3 years ago the top SG's were Vince, Iverson and Kobe, and their were the others. Also if you check out the players, Carter was no less consistent than Paul Pierce, Allen Iverson, or Tracy McGrady, common. Kevin O'neil the Raptors coach told the players not to go after offensive boards, Carter has always been more of an offensive rebounder than defensive, hence the drop in rebounds per game, but how many people care enough to find out? He's passing out to wide open players who can't make shots, the Raptors were 23rd in the league in FG attempts, and 28th in FG%. If you want to compare, the Lakers were 4th in the league in FG%, and 7th in FG attempts. More shots being taken, and your team hitting a higher percentage will usually lead to more assists, wouldn't it? When your team plays a defensive style with the wrong players for that style, and you also have players like Milt Palacio and Micahel Curry who can't make a shot if their lives depended on it getting minutes, then it's not as easy. Also when all the team runs is Isolation Carter or post up Jalen Rose with no ball movement, nothing, it doesn't help either. Carter doesn't try to feed off the hype of how well he can jump, if you think all he does is dunk or he tries to dunk a lot, you really don't watch Raptors games, just the little NBA TV 2 minute feeds, and NBA TV doesn't even show Raptors games much unless it's Raptors NBA TV which it won't be considering your area. To say his whole persona right now is his dunking ability is just ignoarant, sorry but that's all it is. I don't know what this has to do with Bryant, when was anyone saying Carter was better than Kobe, when did the media ever say that, people don't even consider him a top 5 SG, how is that being overatted, doesn't even make sense. I doubt you'd be triple teamed , no for on the real, I wouldn't say he's more clutch than Kobe, thats stupidness, but to say he's not clutch is blasphemy in itself. Some plays were the shot he hit over Dion Glover, the spinning layup and 1 against Atlanta in crunch time, blocking Jason Terry's possible game winner, hitting a three to win the game agaisnt NOH, half court bank to end the half agaisnt NOH too I think, and many more, so he also made big plays, but who really cares. You're making yourself sound like on of those people that say all Carter can do is dunk, yet his 2nd and 3rd years in the league he shot 40+% from three point range, he has a career 38.6% three point accuracy, career numbers of 24-5-4, and averaged 21-4.8-4.8 this year.</div> 100% accurate.. thank you. and also this is his worst shooting year ever... and its still nothing to be embarassed about.
kobe bryant. he puts up good numbers but brings a team down. he's the reason why the lakers lost in the finals. his ego got in the way of doing the right thing, which is revolve your offence around shaq. jacking up stupid shots in close games is what kobe does best.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Billa_Bong:</div><div class="quote_post">tony parker, did you see him in the los angeles/spurs playoff games 1st 2 he did good, last 4 he did shit. he choked on free throws everything i mean ya he did good in the season but championships are won in playoffs and he choked</div> Hey i Recorded games 3,4 and 5 and it clearly shows Payton holding parkers shirt, kobe slapping at his hand not the ball and Karl using his shoulder to push parker. but while you are talking about choking what about the Lakers that includes Kobe.
Vince Cater all star votes has anyone seen what vince has to go against there is no one expect him that is a superstar in his voting column look at the west Kobe, Manu, ray allen, finley,Carmelo and many more
^^ Manu is not a superstar, and Carmelo is a Forward not a guard. Vince goes against Jermaine O'neal as the only superstar in the East forward group. Ron Artest would also count but he's not a superstar.
I would have to say Allen Iverson as my top overrated player...He jacks up 25 shots a game and makes around 8 of them...He shoots poorly from the floor and he drives to the basket most of the time. I am a Sixer fan and AI looked like he was passing to people in a difficult spot where they can shot...He would drive to the basket a lot and dish it off to say Samuel Dalembert who was like 3 feet away...Putting him in a position with like 3 guys around him to try and shoot the ball. Thats what I think you may disagree with me but thats ok
I agree ^^ He can give you 25 a game, the hard way. By the time he has 25 points, the opposing team already has a big lead.
Why do so many people say Vince is overrated? He's not overrated or underrated. He's garbage right now. Look at the drop in his stats. That speaks for itself.
Allstar votes?? Thats a very dumb arguement first of all because he got more votes than anyone in the league... second of all he is the shortest out of tmac, lebron, melo, kobe, etc. and the only one to play small forward, is that his fault? Next year He might be a 2. Ludacris06 Vince is underrated because this is his worst year and still was up there in many statistic categories including scoring (#7). he ended up being soewhere higher when tmac and AI didnt play the whole season and were takin off the chart. His worst year ever and you say hes garbage? lol its clear your just speaking because you gave no evidence to back up your random claim. Stats drop, still among the best.. I think Jalen Rose is overrated, well Im speaking from what I saw last season since he came to raptors. His defence is not strong, People believe he can run the point as good as another true point gaurd, but he turns the ball over soo much and throws lazy passes, runs down the court and shoots before anyone is tehre for rebound, hardly ever looks for a cutter, The only quality points i saw were posting up smaller gaurds. Im just shocked at how he shoots about 39% and scores 15-17 a game..
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">^^ Manu is not a superstar, and Carmelo is a Forward not a guard. Vince goes against Jermaine O'neal as the only superstar in the East forward group. Ron Artest would also count but he's not a superstar.</div> buy you missed the point manu had 327,109 votes he takes away for kobe or if Vince was it our column plus i know Carmelo is a forward but he was in the group with kobe and manu and you are wrong again Vince was not with Jermaine Oneal and Ron for sure is not a super star at any cost. He just makes news because he is a overpaid dirty player.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Ron for sure is not a super star at any cost.</div> Wait, what did my post say, read it again Vince is listed as a forward, not a guard, so yes he was in with Jermaine O'neal. All the forwards are listed together, and all the guards are listed together, so if people want to vote for two PF's, they can, ex: KG and Duncan. ...anyways, I don't really care that much about this, but even in 2001 when Carter had more superstars I guess, he still won it, people just like seeing the guy, who cares. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting East Forwards:</div><div class="quote_post">Forwards - Vince Carter (Tor) 2,127,183; Jermaine O?Neal (Ind) 1,629,054; Kenyon Martin (NJ) 659,773; Ron Artest, (Ind) 405,326; Scottie Pippen (Chi) 358,035; Shareef Abdur-Rahim (Atl) 273,018; Carlos Boozer (Cle) 226,822; Richard Jefferson (NJ) 226,253; Jamal Mashburn (NO) 221,519; Toni Kukoc (Mil) 193,555. </div> <div class="quote_poster">Quoting West Guards:</div><div class="quote_post">Guards - Kobe Bryant (LAL) 1,759,717; Steve Francis (Hou) 976,841; Gary Payton (LAL) 686,788; Steve Nash (Dal) 582,243; Emanuel Ginobili (SA) 538,522; Mike Bibby (Sac) 483,861; Tony Parker (SA) 346,735; Ray Allen (Sea) 303,337; Michael Finley (Dal) 253,848; Cuttino Mobley (Hou) 219,382. </div>
