<div class="quote_poster">Quoting allstar44:</div><div class="quote_post">Allstar votes?? Thats a very dumb arguement first of all because he got more votes than anyone in the league... second of all he is the shortest out of tmac, lebron, melo, kobe, etc. and the only one to play small forward, is that his fault? Next year He might be a 2. Ludacris06 Vince is underrated because this is his worst year and still was up there in many statistic categories including scoring (#7). he ended up being soewhere higher when tmac and AI didnt play the whole season and were takin off the chart. His worst year ever and you say hes garbage? lol its clear your just speaking because you gave no evidence to back up your random claim. Stats drop, still among the best.. I think Jalen Rose is overrated, well Im speaking from what I saw last season since he came to raptors. His defence is not strong, People believe he can run the point as good as another true point gaurd, but he turns the ball over soo much and throws lazy passes, runs down the court and shoots before anyone is tehre for rebound, hardly ever looks for a cutter, The only quality points i saw were posting up smaller gaurds. Im just shocked at how he shoots about 39% and scores 15-17 a game..</div> That BS Vince is he his own special Column. ASSOCIATED PRESS Dec. 26 ? Vince Carter, Toronto, 1,134,147; Jermaine O'Neal, Indiana, 872,476; Kenyon Martin, New Jersey, 336,888; Scottie Pippen, Chicago, 192,083; Ron Artest, Indiana, 189,532; Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Atlanta, 134,929; Carlos Boozer, Cleveland, 125,792; Richard Jefferson, New Jersey, 114,594; Toni Kukoc, Milwaukee, 95,828; Lamar Odom, Miami, 79,475 Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers, 936,281; Steve Francis, Houston, 465,982; Gary Payton, L.A. Lakers, 399,979; Steve Nash, Dallas, 347,180; Emanuel Ginobili, San Antonio, 327,109; Stephon Marbury, Phoenix, 217,665; Mike Bibby, Sacramento, 214,049; Tony Parker, San Antonio, 202,889; Michael Finley, Dallas, 154,228; Ray Allen, Seattle, 116,015. Tim Duncan, San Antonio, 885,872; Kevin Garnett, Minnesota, 877,622; Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas, 334,836; Karl Malone, L.A. Lakers, 297,283; Carmelo Anthony, Denver, 287,476; Pau Gasol, Memphis, 214,951; Peja Stojakovic, Sacramento, 185,792; Chris Webber, Sacramento, 184,592; Antoine Walker, Dallas, 162,959; Malik Rose, San Antonio, 116,131. S. Abdur-Rahim/Atlanta Ron Artest/Indiana Boozer/Cleveland P.J. Brown/New Orleans Caron Butler/Miami Vince Carter/Toronto 1: superstar Chandler/Chicago Drew Gooden/Orlando Al Harrington/Indiana Howard/Orlando Richard Jefferson/New Jersey Toni Kukoc/Milwaukee Jamal Mashburn/New Orleans Antonio McDyess/New York Lamar Odom/Miami O'Neal/Indiana 2: superstar Pippen/Chicago Glenn Robinson/Philadelphia Kenny Thomas/Philadelphia Tim Thomas/Milwaukee Keith Van Horn/New York Antoine Walker/Boston Corliss Williamson/Detroit you only have two superstar to vote for look at the west Carmelo Anthony/Denver 3/4: superstar in the making Elton Brand/L.A. Clippers 3/4: superstar in the making Tim Duncan/San Antonio 1: superstar Mike Dunleavy/Golden State Kevin Garnett/Minnesota 2:superstar Pau Gasol/Memphis 3/4: superstar in the making Matt Harpring/Utah Andrei Kirilenko/Utah 3:superstar Rashard Lewis/Seattle Corey Maggette/L.A. Clippers Karl Malone/L.A. Lakers 3/4: was a superstar Shawn Marion/Phoenix Mike Miller/Memphis Dirk Nowitzki/Dallas 4:superstar Zach Randolph/Portland 3/4: superstar in the making Peja Stojakovic/Sacramento 5: superstar Amar? Stoudemire/Phoenix 3/4: superstar in the making Wally Szczerbiak/Minnesota Rasheed Wallace/Portland Chris Webber/Sacramento 6:superstar no wonder vince carter had so many vote it almost looked like Vince was in WNBA column. don't get me wrong but thats what i call overrated by a landslide.(only in the allstar voting)
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">Wait, what did my post say, read it again Vince is listed as a forward, not a guard, so yes he was in with Jermaine O'neal. All the forwards are listed together, and all the guards are listed together, so if people want to vote for two PF's, they can, ex: KG and Duncan. ...anyways, I don't really care that much about this, but even in 2001 when Carter had more superstars I guess, he still won it, people just like seeing the guy, who cares.</div> here is the link http://famulus.msnbc.com/famulusspt/apmega...712.asp?spt=nba i dont see carter with that many votes. but what i am saying is that i think Vince Carter is overrated when it come to all star voting because there is no one there like in the mighty powerful western teams. Is there a harder choice in the West forwards? How do you pick two from this list: Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Dirk Nowitzki, and Zach Randolph?
^^^ What are you comparing too? For some reason you put in West guard, but you're comparing to West Forwards, like I said, even when he had "good players" in his categoty, he still won, who cares. Also you just explained why Elton Brand is underatted through you calling him a superstar in the making, he's not in the making, he's already there. Kirilenko isn't a superstar at this moment in his career, he was even arguably an All-Star. I like how you really neglected the East, I guess Lamar Odom, Kenyon Martin, and Shareef Abdur Rahim <font size="1">(he was in the East till after All-Star game)</font> aren't good players, you included Randolph, so Odom and Martin have to be in. Richard Jefferson is also arguably a "superstar in the making", and Antoine Walker was considered one when he was in the East, but he doesn't count, he' in the West. Jamal Mashburn would be considered one every other year but this year where he was injured and doesn't look to ever be coming back to being a star player. Plain and simple, it happened when Jermaine, Mashburn, Antoine Walker, Shareef, Grant Hill, Kenyon, Glenn Robinson and Spreewell were East Forwards <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Is there a harder choice in the West forwards? How do you pick two from this list: Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Dirk Nowitzki, and Zach Randolph?</div> How don't you, always Duncan and KG, the others don't compare.
I wouldnt call Vince overrated, he just inst lucky he would be one helluva player today if he wasnt always injured..he used to an all around great player, but now all he can do is dunk.. Rashard Lewis is overrated also, he can dunk and one night he can pour in 15 points, but the next 3 games he will put in just 9, 11, and 13..he is far too inconsistent and that is really hurting him, I am looking for him to become a solid player this year. Erick Dampier is overrated, he got up this year because it was his contract year and he wanted some dough..lets see how he plays once he gets his contract, the old Erick where he could give a rat's ass about the game? Or last years where he loved it because he was in teh running for a big pay day?
[quote name='og15']^^^ What are you comparing too? For some reason you put in West guard, but you're comparing to West Forwards, like I said, even when he had "good players" in his categoty, he still won, who cares. Also you just explained why Elton Brand is underatted through you calling him a superstar in the making, he's not in the making, he's already there. Kirilenko isn't a superstar at this moment in his career, he was even arguably an All-Star. I like how you really neglected the East, I guess Lamar Odom, Kenyon Martin, and Shareef Abdur Rahim <font size="1">(he was in the East till after All-Star game)</font> aren't good players, you included so Odom and Martin have to be in. Richard Jefferson is also arguably a "superstar in the making", and Antoine Walker was considered one when he was in the East, but he doesn't count, he' in the West. Jamal Mashburn would be considered one every other year but this year where he was injured and doesn't look to ever be coming back to being a star player. Plain and simple, it happened when Jermaine, Mashburn, Antoine Walker, Shareef, Grant Hill, Kenyon, Glenn Robinson and Spreewell were East Forwards but your still missing the whole point VINCE CARTER IS OVERRATED IN THE ALLSTAR VOTING and i was not yelling it. I was just tring to show you that was what I have been saying for awhile. The West is loaded at guard or forward. which means the more superstars you have its less votes. so if you have all these great superstar and superstars in making they are taking votes from each other which means why Vince Carter gets so many vote. put him in the west and you will see he won't be in the top 3 plus someone that can take your team to the next level(like Kirilenko) is a superstar. you will see what Richard Jefferson will do now that K_Mart and Kittles are out. Richard Jefferson can not take over a game now. maybe in a few years but he is not a superstar. H
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">^^^ What are you comparing too? For some reason you put in West guard, but you're comparing to West Forwards, like I said, even when he had "good players" in his categoty, he still won, who cares. Also you just explained why Elton Brand is underatted through you calling him a superstar in the making, he's not in the making, he's already there. Kirilenko isn't a superstar at this moment in his career, he was even arguably an All-Star. I like how you really neglected the East, I guess Lamar Odom, Kenyon Martin, and Shareef Abdur Rahim <font size="1">(he was in the East till after All-Star game)</font> aren't good players, you included Randolph, so Odom and Martin have to be in. Richard Jefferson is also arguably a "superstar in the making", and Antoine Walker was considered one when he was in the East, but he doesn't count, he' in the West. Jamal Mashburn would be considered one every other year but this year where he was injured and doesn't look to ever be coming back to being a star player. Plain and simple, it happened when Jermaine, Mashburn, Antoine Walker, Shareef, Grant Hill, Kenyon, Glenn Robinson and Spreewell were East Forwards How don't you, always Duncan and KG, the others don't compare.</div> but your still missing the whole point VINCE CARTER IS OVERRATED IN THE ALLSTAR VOTING and i was not yelling it. I was just tring to show you that was what I have been saying for awhile. The West is loaded at guard or forward. which means the more superstars you have its less votes. so if you have all these great superstar and superstars in making they are taking votes from each other which means why Vince Carter gets so many vote. put him in the west and you will see he won't be in the top 3 plus someone that can take your team to the next level(like Kirilenko) is a superstar. you will see what Richard Jefferson will do now that K_Mart and Kittles are out. Richard Jefferson can not take over a game now. maybe in a few years but he is not a superstar.
^^ I guess he is, but so is Ben Wallace with the next East center to him being Alonzo Mourning, but who really cares? Actually last year when Kmart and Kidd were out Jefferson was averaging 24.4 PPG, 7.6 RPG, and 6.4 APG, and still shooting 52.7% from the field, so no he doesn't need those guys (Kenyon and Kittles) but it would be good to have them.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting allstar44:</div><div class="quote_post">Ludacris06 Vince is underrated because this is his worst year and still was up there in many statistic categories including scoring (#7). he ended up being soewhere higher when tmac and AI didnt play the whole season and were takin off the chart. His worst year ever and you say hes garbage? lol its clear your just speaking because you gave no evidence to back up your random claim. Stats drop, still among the best.. </div> Still among the best? Who? T-Mac and AI? If their stats drop all together they are still considered the best? Entertaining, yes. Winning, no. He increased from 1 turnover a game to 3 while only playing 4 more minutes a game. He even had a game where he had 10 turnovers. His game is all over the place also. He can go for 50% and have like 30 points one game and play horrible the next game or 3. Poor rebounder, poor defender, and the only stat thats worth looking at after this season is the points. Tracy Mcgrady against Raptors 30ppg Allen Iverson against Raptors 35.5ppg Paul Pierce against Raptors 24.75ppg Yeah, that defense is real nice. Compared to the other gaurds and forwards in the league in effenciency, here's where he ranks. Tracy Mcgrady 23.75 Predrag Stojakovic 22.99 Kobe Bryant 22.68 Shawn Marion 22.48 Ray Allen 20.91 Sam Cassell 20.68 Paul Pierce 20.49 Jason Kidd 20.45 Stephon Marbury 20.27 Baron Davis 19.81 Corey Maggette 18.93 Richard Jefferson 18.84 LeBron James 18.77 Steve Nash 18.51 Vince Carter 18.38 <---34th in the league. Allen Iverson 18.19 Being one of the top scorers is one thing, but being an effcient player is another. Of corse players do some things that aren't recorded on the stat sheet, but his team didnt make it to the playoffs. Everytime I see Vince on Sports Center, he usually just has a towel over his head in dissapointment. Vince is playing like crap right now and to still consider him one of the best as of this moment? Laughable..
Vince would not lead the league in All-Star votes if he was in the Western confrence. If he did, fans just cut of a bunch of deserving players. Like that other guy said, Vince in the NBA is like Vince in the WNBA in terms of All-Star votes.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">^^ I guess he is, but so is Ben Wallace with the next East center to him being Alonzo Mourning, but who really cares? Actually last year when Kmart and Kidd were out Jefferson was averaging 24.4 PPG, 7.6 RPG, and 6.4 APG, and still shooting 52.7% from the field, so no he doesn't need those guys (Kenyon and Kittles) but it would be good to have them.</div> hold on a second teams adjust. and will double team him and stop him. you can't compare a few games to a whole year. he can't take over a game like Kobe, Tim or KG. you have to play on bothends of the court
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting ludacris06:</div><div class="quote_post">Vince would not lead the league in All-Star votes if he was in the Western confrence. If he did, fans just cut of a bunch of deserving players. Like that other guy said, Vince in the NBA is like Vince in the WNBA in terms of All-Star votes.</div> thank you someone know what I am tring to say. Vince is overrated when it come to allstar voting.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Oneinpower:</div><div class="quote_post">hold on a second teams adjust. and will double team him and stop him. you can't compare a few games to a whole year. he can't take over a game like Kobe, Tim or KG. you have to play on bothends of the court</div> I agree. It isnt hard to adjust your team to stop or contain one person. I can give a very good excuse why Jefferson had those numbers. Teams were used to seeing Kidd, K-Mart, and Jefferson together. When they were out, the Nets had to play a whole new game and make Jefferson a go to man.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting ludacris06:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree. It isnt hard to adjust your team to stop or contain one person. I can give a very good excuse why Jefferson had those numbers. Teams were used to seeing Kidd, K-Mart, and Jefferson together. When they were out, the Nets had to play a whole new game and make Jefferson a go to man.</div> I Agree
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting ludacris06:</div><div class="quote_post">Still among the best? Who? T-Mac and AI? If their stats drop all together they are still considered the best? Entertaining, yes. Winning, no. He increased from 1 turnover a game to 3 while only playing 4 more minutes a game. He even had a game where he had 10 turnovers. His game is all over the place also. He can go for 50% and have like 30 points one game and play horrible the next game or 3. Poor rebounder, poor defender, and the only stat thats worth looking at after this season is the points. Tracy Mcgrady against Raptors 30ppg Allen Iverson against Raptors 35.5ppg Paul Pierce against Raptors 24.75ppg Yeah, that defense is real nice. </div> If you had spent any time watching Raptors games (which you obviously haven't) you would know that Vince doesn't guard those guys the majority of the time. The Raptors usually rotate their defence against those guys and it's usually a combination of Alvin/Mo Pete/Vince that are guarding them, so that stat is not relevent at all. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting ludacris06:</div><div class="quote_post"> Compared to the other gaurds and forwards in the league in effenciency, here's where he ranks. Tracy Mcgrady 23.75 Predrag Stojakovic 22.99 Kobe Bryant 22.68 Shawn Marion 22.48 Ray Allen 20.91 Sam Cassell 20.68 Paul Pierce 20.49 Jason Kidd 20.45 Stephon Marbury 20.27 Baron Davis 19.81 Corey Maggette 18.93 Richard Jefferson 18.84 LeBron James 18.77 Steve Nash 18.51 Vince Carter 18.38 <---34th in the league. Allen Iverson 18.19 Being one of the top scorers is one thing, but being an effcient player is another. Of corse players do some things that aren't recorded on the stat sheet, but his team didnt make it to the playoffs. Everytime I see Vince on Sports Center, he usually just has a towel over his head in dissapointment. Vince is playing like crap right now and to still consider him one of the best as of this moment? Laughable..</div> It's funny that you mention the efficiency rating, where does Rasheed Wallace rank in that list, a player that you list as "underrated" in this thread? 47. Rasheed Wallace (Detroit Pistons) 68 17.09 So either that stat is useless or you're contradicting yourself, pick one. Considering Vince is ranked 34th and Rasheed is way down there at 47th. If you base your opinion that Vince is "garbage" on that efficieny stat than what does that make Rasheed? You also mention that "players do some things that aren't recorded on the stat sheet, but his team didnt make it to the playoffs"....where did Portland go this year, a team that he spent the majority of the season with? Nowhere. I'm tired of all this crap about Rasheed all of a sudden being so passionate and such a team player now that he has won a championship. People see him differently just because of 22 games? I guess to you people, if Vince was the one who won a championship with the Pistons he would be considered such a better player in your eyes.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting ludacris06:</div><div class="quote_post">Still among the best? Who? T-Mac and AI? If their stats drop all together they are still considered the best? Entertaining, yes. Winning, no. He increased from 1 turnover a game to 3 while only playing 4 more minutes a game. He even had a game where he had 10 turnovers. His game is all over the place also. He can go for 50% and have like 30 points one game and play horrible the next game or 3. Poor rebounder, poor defender, and the only stat thats worth looking at after this season is the points. Tracy Mcgrady against Raptors 30ppg Allen Iverson against Raptors 35.5ppg Paul Pierce against Raptors 24.75ppg Yeah, that defense is real nice. Compared to the other gaurds and forwards in the league in effenciency, here's where he ranks. Tracy Mcgrady 23.75 Predrag Stojakovic 22.99 Kobe Bryant 22.68 Shawn Marion 22.48 Ray Allen 20.91 Sam Cassell 20.68 Paul Pierce 20.49 Jason Kidd 20.45 Stephon Marbury 20.27 Baron Davis 19.81 Corey Maggette 18.93 Richard Jefferson 18.84 LeBron James 18.77 Steve Nash 18.51 Vince Carter 18.38 <---34th in the league. Allen Iverson 18.19 Being one of the top scorers is one thing, but being an effcient player is another. Of corse players do some things that aren't recorded on the stat sheet, but his team didnt make it to the playoffs. Everytime I see Vince on Sports Center, he usually just has a towel over his head in dissapointment. Vince is playing like crap right now and to still consider him one of the best as of this moment? Laughable..</div> First of all poor rebounder? Carter is more of an offensive rebounder than defensive, Kevin O'neil didn't want the Raptors getting offensive rebounds because he wanted them getting back on defense, hence the drop in rebounds, common luda, expected better. In the beginning of the season he was going on the offensive glass and getting put back dunks etc, but stopped that a few games later, coaches orders, if he had his normal offensive glass crashing he would've averaged about one more offensive rebound which would push his average to 5.8 RPG. Poor defense, no, his defense is not good but it's about average, but not poor, he's not a garbage defender just not a good one mostly due to effort. Vince doesn't guard Iverson when the Raptors play Philly. Also don't put up stuff like this without showing both sides: Carter averaged 28.0 points, 4.5 rebounds, and 7.0 assists against the Celtics, and shot 48.8%, great D by Pierce there right? Agaisnt Philly 22.8 - 5.5 - 6.5, but shot garbage at 39.5%, but sucked against Orlando averaed 16-4-7, but what a bad measure, just showing what others scored on him Efficiency, weren't you just saying he doesn't compare to AI, then you bring up efficiency and he beats AI, isn't AI 36th? Really though, Orlando was garbage, Philly had the same record and were doing better without AI <font size="1">(means nothing)</font>, and Boston beat the Raptors by 3 games, and when Vince was out for 9 games the Raptors were 0-9. Then turnovers? I know you watched some Raptors games, if you did you'd know why when the team didn't move on offense, and all it was was pure isolation (coaches will). You'd also know that Michael Curry is garbage, he was on the Pistons, and Milt Palacio and Robert Archibald suck, and only on player on the Raptors bench Jerome Moiso who hardly played shot over 40%. Pierce was 3rd in the league in turnovers, shot worse than Carter, and shot 29% from long range, much more impressive, and he only averaged 0.3 more assists. Iverson led the league in turnovers, and shot worse. Also consistency? If you actually look at consistency throughout all the star SG's, you won't even bring that up. He's maybe even more consistent than Pierce, and not any more or less than the other guys, I'll show you if you want.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Eclipse:</div><div class="quote_post">If you had spent any time watching Raptors games (which you obviously haven't) you would know that Vince doesn't guard those guys the majority of the time. The Raptors usually rotate their defence against those guys and it's usually a combination of Alvin/Mo Pete/Vince that are guarding them, so that stat is not relevent at all. It's funny that you mention the efficiency rating, where does Rasheed Wallace rank in that list, a player that you list as "underrated" in this thread? 47. Rasheed Wallace (Detroit Pistons) 68 17.09 So either that stat is useless or you're contradicting yourself, pick one. Considering Vince is ranked 34th and Rasheed is way down there at 47th. If you base your opinion that Vince is "garbage" on that efficieny stat than what does that make Rasheed? You also mention that "players do some things that aren't recorded on the stat sheet, but his team didnt make it to the playoffs"....where did Portland go this year, a team that he spent the majority of the season with? Nowhere. I'm tired of all this crap about Rasheed all of a sudden being so passionate and such a team player now that he has won a championship. People see him differently just because of 22 games? I guess to you people, if Vince was the one who won a championship with the Pistons he would be considered such a better player in your eyes. </div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If you had spent any time watching Raptors games (which you obviously haven't) you would know that Vince doesn't guard those guys the majority of the time. The Raptors usually rotate their defence against those guys and it's usually a combination of Alvin/Mo Pete/Vince that are guarding them, so that stat is not relevent at all.</div> Well that explains how bad Vince's defense is. Why would they rotate defenders if they were to supposed to have one good defender? That rotation must of been wack because those guys still laid the law on on your Raptors. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">It's funny that you mention the efficiency rating, where does Rasheed Wallace rank in that list, a player that you list as "underrated" in this thread? 47. Rasheed Wallace (Detroit Pistons) 68 17.09</div> Pistons record after Rasheed Wallace landed in Detroit: 34-11 Yes, Rasheed is underrated because he is the ultimate team player. He said it himself. He knows what he can and cannot do, but he doesnt care about averaging points or whatever as long as he is helping the team. Thats what the whole Piston roster contains, team players. Lets just say, Portland doesnt contain "Team players".
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Accord:</div><div class="quote_post">Shaquille O'Neal.</div> Na Shaqs not overrated. Leading a team to 3 consecutive titles isnt overrated if you ask me. Hes a top 3 player in the league right now. Shaq is basically what people see him as not underrated or overrated. Not to mention hes the most dominant player ever. lol My guess is that you were trying to bring up a discussion by saying Shaq.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">First of all poor rebounder? Carter is more of an offensive rebounder than defensive, Kevin O'neil didn't want the Raptors getting offensive rebounds because he wanted them getting back on defense, hence the drop in rebounds, common luda, expected better. In the beginning of the season he was going on the offensive glass and getting put back dunks etc, but stopped that a few games later, coaches orders, if he had his normal offensive glass crashing he would've averaged about one more offensive rebound which would push his average to 5.8 RPG. Poor defense, no, his defense is not good but it's about average, but not poor, he's not a garbage defender just not a good one mostly due to effort. Vince doesn't guard Iverson when the Raptors play Philly. Also don't put up stuff like this without showing both sides: Carter averaged 28.0 points, 4.5 rebounds, and 7.0 assists against the Celtics, and shot 48.8%, great D by Pierce there right? Agaisnt Philly 22.8 - 5.5 - 6.5, but shot garbage at 39.5%, but sucked against Orlando averaed 16-4-7, but what a bad measure, just showing what others scored on him Efficiency, weren't you just saying he doesn't compare to AI, then you bring up efficiency and he beats AI, isn't AI 36th? Really though, Orlando was garbage, Philly had the same record and were doing better without AI <font size="1">(means nothing)</font>, and Boston beat the Raptors by 3 games, and when Vince was out for 9 games the Raptors were 0-9. Then turnovers? I know you watched some Raptors games, if you did you'd know why when the team didn't move on offense, and all it was was pure isolation (coaches will). You'd also know that Michael Curry is garbage, he was on the Pistons, and Milt Palacio and Robert Archibald suck, and only on player on the Raptors bench Jerome Moiso who hardly played shot over 40%. Pierce was 3rd in the league in turnovers, shot worse than Carter, and shot 29% from long range, much more impressive, and he only averaged 0.3 more assists. Iverson led the league in turnovers, and shot worse. Also consistency? If you actually look at consistency throughout all the star SG's, you won't even bring that up. He's maybe even more consistent than Pierce, and not any more or less than the other guys, I'll show you if you want.</div> Argueing with you is making me loose credibility here. Nah, just kiddin. I'm not comparing Vince to AI, T-Mac, or Pierce. I'm pointing out all the things wrong with Vince Carter. I shouldnt have called him a poor rebounder,but he's dropped from almost 6 rebs a game to almost 5 a game. If he keeps dropping, he'll be saying hello to Allen Iverson in that category.
