<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Banks:</div><div class="quote_post">Wrong. The Suns have more talent then the Lakers, Mavericks and Jazz and I believe they'll finish ahead of them 3. They're an uptempo team now with Nash running the point and with JJ off the bench. The offseason is not over yet. Chris Mihm could still sign, so can Dampier...they're a lot of possibilities. As of now, it looks like Voshkul will take the job. You don't need him doing much. He'll bang around and guard the 2nd best big man, as Amare will guard TD, KG, Randolph, Brand, C-Webb(or Marion). Marion is very versatile and can guard any posistion. Shawn is also very quick with his feet and hands and is a threat to block or steal the ball any time. Marion, Stoudemire and Q will provide the rebounding, so you dont much from Voskul, except for the little things. Their starters should look up heavy minutes, so players like Barbosa, Jacobsen, Lampe can contribute when needed to give rest. Of course, they will get more depth, its just a matter of who. With their starting 5, I think they can be a 6th-4th seed.</div> Ok i may have underrated them by saying the hornets are better lol. Still the Lakers and Jazz have more depth and talent than the suns. People over look the Lakers now that Shaqs gone including me. The Lakers are not as bad as everyone thinks. They got a superstar in Kobe. A great 6th man in Caron. A great player an all star arguably in Odom. Along with many others. The Suns have no real leader. I guess I would say their leader is Nash and he isnt really that good of one. The Suns will get torn apart though trust me. Just wait and see. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Bahir:</div><div class="quote_post">Well it has certainly gotten some discussion, so why dont you stfu and stop throwing suckerpunches in a normal discussion, when I havent even offended you in any way. Shows just how smart you are..</div> LOL no need to get so mad and I never said it didnt get discussion. I said its stupid to even consider the Suns winning the title. Read my post more carefully if it isnt too difficult for you. lol I also see no reason for me to stfu. And yes it shows how smart I am thinking the Suns have absolutley NO chance at the title when any sain person can see the same. Carry on with your "interesting" post.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post">You can't be a real Spurs fan, because if so...you'd know what I was talking about with Duncan's knees. After knee surgery, it doesn't take long for your knees to start hurting once again...and plus, didn't Duncan mess his left ankle up this last season? Expect more injuries the upcoming season. Back to topic.</div> What are you talking about "Duncan's Knees" he didn't hurt both Knees just a knee but he is ok now. I guess two MVP after he hurt his knee means that he is still hurting. and yes he did hurt sprain his ankle just like Parker and Manu did but who hasn't. thats no excuss Kobe was hurt so was Malone that's just something that is part of the games so what. Your alway talking about the lakers this and the laker that but this is about the Suns. there is a chance that if they(Suns) sign Dampier then they will be better then the lakers. sorry Spurs hater fan
My man Ace2k2, come on man. You talk about a comparison with the Lakers and Suns. "They got a superstar in Kobe. A great 6th man in Caron. A great player an all star arguably in Odom. Along with many others. The Suns have no real leader. I guess I would say their leader is Nash and he isnt really that good of one. The Suns will get torn apart though trust me. Just wait and see". The Suns have a star (Amare), A better sixth-man (JJ, or Q), 5 possible all-stars (Amare, Matrix, JJ, Q, Nash), and many leaders. Leadership is good to have but not valid in your arguement. Give me an example of how the Lakers have better leaders then the Suns. Vlade is a great team guy yes, but so is Amare (who is one of the only guys I have heard of that fly to Dallas and recruit). Nash and Kobe are about the Same leadership wise and Nash is a better leader on the court. Nash gets teammates involved, Kobe wants the ball always (which cannot always be a negative thing but can aso be a negative thing) Leadership is not valid and it just seems like you ran out of things to say so you threw it in there. The Suns are better then the Lakers at 3/4 positions with the Center position being a tie, but if you were forced to give an edge to someone at the 5 it would be the Lakers (remember free-agenct is not over yet). Nash is a better player then GP. Kobe is better then JJ and Q, even though Phoenix is very deep at that position. Marion is better then Butler or Odom or Fox or whomever you throw on the court. Amare is better then any 4 on your team, period (he will overpower anybody). I think we can agree that old, slow, and experienced (Vlade) is about even with Young, undersized, yet hard worker (Little Jake). I mean where is the arguement. If you want more of one read page 2 on this post for more on the Suns. But please come up with something valid before ripping a team you know very little about.
I love the Suns, they will be a player, but not in the upper tier. They will be a really fun team to watch, I'll tune in to watch my man Steve Nash dishing it to all the young athletes on that team. Steve will set the tempo and lead this team. To the Laker guy who said the Sun's don't have a leader, heck, Nash is a great leader. Who do the Lakers have? Kobe? When's he ever been a leader? Payton? Right. Now you wanna compare the Suns to my Mavs.... Nash vs Terry/Devin Harris => Edge to Suns, but barely, Mavs are deeper and younger Q/JJ vs Daniels/Howard => Advantage Mavs. Love Q, Love JJ. Not in Marquis league though. I know I'm jumping the gun, but just wait and see. Marion vs Finley/Stackhouse => Advantage Suns, but the Mavs are deep Amare vs Dirk => Advantage Mavs, yeh, no D in Dirk, but come on, he's a top 10 player Center vs Center => Well, we both lose. What does it mean? In one game, these two teams will light each other up. It will be great ball to watch. High ratings. David Stern's dream. Could go either way. In a series, the Mavs superiour depth would win out.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting emannen:</div><div class="quote_post">My man Ace2k2, come on man. You talk about a comparison with the Lakers and Suns. "They got a superstar in Kobe. A great 6th man in Caron. A great player an all star arguably in Odom. Along with many others. The Suns have no real leader. I guess I would say their leader is Nash and he isnt really that good of one. The Suns will get torn apart though trust me. Just wait and see". The Suns have a star (Amare), A better sixth-man (JJ, or Q), 5 possible all-stars (Amare, Matrix, JJ, Q, Nash), and many leaders. Leadership is good to have but not valid in your arguement. Give me an example of how the Lakers have better leaders then the Suns. Vlade is a great team guy yes, but so is Amare (who is one of the only guys I have heard of that fly to Dallas and recruit). Nash and Kobe are about the Same leadership wise and Nash is a better leader on the court. Nash gets teammates involved, Kobe wants the ball always (which cannot always be a negative thing but can aso be a negative thing) Leadership is not valid and it just seems like you ran out of things to say so you threw it in there. The Suns are better then the Lakers at 3/4 positions with the Center position being a tie, but if you were forced to give an edge to someone at the 5 it would be the Lakers (remember free-agenct is not over yet). Nash is a better player then GP. Kobe is better then JJ and Q, even though Phoenix is very deep at that position. Marion is better then Butler or Odom or Fox or whomever you throw on the court. Amare is better then any 4 on your team, period (he will overpower anybody). I think we can agree that old, slow, and experienced (Vlade) is about even with Young, undersized, yet hard worker (Little Jake). I mean where is the arguement. If you want more of one read page 2 on this post for more on the Suns. But please come up with something valid before ripping a team you know very little about.</div> -Amare isnt a star yet -No way is Joe Johnson an all star especially in the West or Quentin. - Jake against Vlade? Even at this stae in his career Vlade is better than a scrub. - Gary is better than Nash. The triangle slowed him down. I know your going to say Im talking bs but Im not. GP still has enough juice in him to out manuever Steve Nash. -lol ripping on the Suns? How? By saying they have absolutley no shot at the finals? - Lakers are better PERIOD. I am not a Lkare fan either so you cant say im bias. Your a Suns fan so I know your bias. -Marion is the only all-star you got on your team ands hes arguable. Same with Amare. Theyre no starting material on The West. Odom is just as valuble as Amare at this point. They both will continue to get better. - So maybe YOU need to learn more about what your talking about. -Your talk is cheap. -Wait til the Season starts and youll see how well your precious Suns do. -Your team looks good on paper but they will have absolutley no chemistry what so ever.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Ace2k2:</div><div class="quote_post">-Amare isnt a star yet -No way is Joe Johnson an all star especially in the West or Quentin. - Jake against Vlade? Even at this stae in his career Vlade is better than a scrub. - Gary is better than Nash. The triangle slowed him down. I know your going to say Im talking bs but Im not. GP still has enough juice in him to out manuever Steve Nash. -lol ripping on the Suns? How? By saying they have absolutley no shot at the finals? - Lakers are better PERIOD. I am not a Lkare fan either so you cant say im bias. Your a Suns fan so I know your bias. -Marion is the only all-star you got on your team ands hes arguable. Same with Amare. Theyre no starting material on The West. Odom is just as valuble as Amare at this point. They both will continue to get better. - So maybe YOU need to learn more about what your talking about. -Your talk is cheap. -Wait til the Season starts and youll see how well your precious Suns do. -Your team looks good on paper but they will have absolutley no chemistry what so ever.</div> If I remember correctly Nash has been an all-star as well and yes if you have seen JJ and realize that he is 22 and has the game he has he definetly has the ability to be an All-Star. Q does as well, 17.2 last year and 6 boards and is only 24, he has improving to do. I'm sorry Payton is old and done. He does not defend like he used to and the playoffs are a great example of that. Why do you think Payton took the 5.5 million? Because he could have maybe got half that somewhere else, GMs realize he is aging and fading. GP can't give a team what Nash can. Nash is a floor general, he will past first, hit the big shot, make the open J, hustle down the loose ball, and play his hear out. GP is not that player, he cries about the offense, complains about the team, complains about the coach, gets torched on D. Come on man, no comparison. Yes I may be a little biased but you can't compare Amare to Odom either. Look at their career stats. Amare YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG 02-03 PHO 82 71 31.3 .472 .200 .661 3.00 5.70 8.80 1.0 .76 1.06 2.30 3.30 13.5 03-04 PHO 55 53 36.8 .475 .200 .713 2.90 6.20 9.00 1.4 1.16 1.62 3.22 3.40 20.6 Career 137 124 33.5 .474 .200 .686 3.00 5.90 8.90 1.1 .92 1.28 2.67 3.30 16.3 Odom 99-00 LAC 76 70 36.4 .438 .360 .719 2.10 5.70 7.80 4.2 1.20 1.25 3.39 3.80 16.6 00-01 LAC 76 74 37.3 .460 .316 .679 1.40 6.30 7.80 5.2 .97 1.61 3.47 3.10 17.2 01-02 LAC 29 25 34.4 .419 .190 .656 1.10 5.00 6.10 5.9 .79 1.24 3.34 3.10 13.1 02-03 LAC 49 47 34.3 .439 .326 .777 1.20 5.40 6.70 3.6 .86 .84 2.86 3.70 14.6 03-04 MIA 80 80 37.5 .430 .298 .742 2.00 7.70 9.70 4.1 1.06 .89 2.95 3.40 17.1 Career 310 296 36.4 .440 .309 .719 1.70 6.30 8.00 4.5 1.02 1.18 3.21 3.50 16.2 Amare is just a better player. You will see Amare continually improve and average 20-25 ppg and 8-10 boards. The best you will ever get out of Odom is 18-20 and 8-10. Yes poll the entire forum Amare is a star in this league. The Lakers are not better then Phoenix. No way. Suns have better players and thats the bottom line. And remember this too. Kobe's record without Shaq is a little over 500. Just keep that in mind for the upcoming season.
Two points Amare is a star, that should be pretty clear The guy averaged 20 and 9 last season without a jump shot and many post moves inside. He overpowers teams, just wait till he learns more about facing up to the basket. Payton is better than Nash? GP is one of my all time favourites but he is old and past it. His defense is terrible, we all saw how Billups abused him in the finals. He can't hit the open shot anymore and his attack and dish is not what It used to be. The guy moans all the time about minutes and shots, instead of just playing the game. Nash is still a great shooter, passer and floor general. He is a team guy, he proved that last season. With Dallas add add more offensive weapons in Walker and Jamison he had to become even more of a pass first player. Many times he never looked for his shot, he did what was best for the team. He never moaned about lack of shots or anything close to that. He is the prefect player to have on your team. And whats this about Lakers having leaders? the only leader that team has or had was Karl Malone. And he is not likely heading back to L.A. It's more likely for there to be chemistry problems in L.A than Phoenix.
Phoenix has no chance to make a run for the title. Who do they got that is a decent center? They picked up Quetin Richardson when they already had Joe Johnson who looked like a very very nice player after the Marbury trade. Phoenix didnt even draft a big man in the draft. Also on Sports center when they asked why Mark Cuban didnt resign Nas Cuban said because he treated his body with reckless abandoment so that will effect Nash's effectness as a basketball player.
Ok I'm going to try to break this down. Pheonix was a horrible team last year even with Marbury. Does Nash counter act that loss? I think so, he seems to be a better fit with pheonix. They have a lot a good scorers but had no one to get them ball thats where nash comes in and nash is a good three point shooter aswell. Did they overpay for him? Yes. Did they give him too many years? Yes, but he still fills a big need so I would call it a good pickup Richardson, this doesn't make sense at all they did not need another sg, and I would take Johnson over Richardson any day of the week. They would of been better suited going after Swift or Dampier. Bad pickup. Now JJ is likely to leave after the end of the season. If Amare is healthy they will be a better team for sure, and I expect him, marion and jj all to improve. So they will be better team. Will they be a playoff team? I don't know. There will be three other teams competing for that last playoff spot in west(Mavs,Lakers,Jazz) and N.O. could also be competing. They could do it but it will be a real struggle. It's to early to tell. But they certainley will not make a run for the trophy.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting jetlee6509:</div><div class="quote_post">Phoenix didnt even draft a big man in the draft.</div> I didn't know Vroman wasn't a big man. 6-10, 220 seems pretty big to me. Either way, I agree with your main point. The Suns aren't championship contenders until they get an atleast slightly better than average center. It doesn't have to be someone like Eric Dampier, it just has to be someone solid enough that it isn't a glaring weakness because Amare is the low post man for the Suns and I don't see why they would need another force downlow (not saying I wouldn't take one if the opportunity came along, just saying they don't exactly need one). As for the Richardson signing...I was skeptical of it at first, but then I realized that I like the Suns getting Q for a somewhat reasonable price rather than giving someone like Dampier the $10 million a year that he wants. It's much better to make the backcourt deeper than to overpay for a frontcourt player like the Suns have in the past (see: Googs).
Steven Nash will fit very well with the Suns system. He may have been overpaid, but he's still a great PG and he could play very well with the players surrounding him. He's a pass first point guard, meaning he can set up either Amare, Q Rich, JJ, Marion, etc. The Suns are loaded with offense, and Nash is one of the best PGs to provide for the other players. Amare is a star, theres no question about that. However, he's built to play PF, NOT center. He's held his own against some of the elite power fowards, and it needs to stay that way. Amare is not big enough to match up against the centers, and playing at his natural position will fit him best. In the end the Suns will be a much improved team. Playoff contenders? Yes. Title contenders? No. They need to get a solid center and improve their defense before they could be considered title contenders. Right now they remind me of the Dallas Mavericks - Loaded with offensive options, but lacking the defense to go that step further.
Phoenix looks strong this year, I will admit that. I was thinking the same thing to myself the other night. But this team is not a title contender by any stretch of the imagination. Nash and Richardson are going to bring a lot to the table, but not enough to take Phoenix from a team that couldn't make the playoffs to a title contender. I will say this though, the Suns are making a great move by building around Amare. I think that this year if he can stay healthy (I know he can), that the Suns should have no problems getting far in the playoffs, but I just can't see them making it all the way to the Finals. Maybe in a couple years though.
NO ONE THOUGHT THE PISTONS WERE GOING TO MAKE A RUN FOR THE TROPHY THE FINALS PEOPLE PROJECTED AFTER A MONTH A PLAY WOULD BE LAKERS VS PACERS. tELL ME HOW JJ CAN GET BOARDS LIKE Q. TRADE JJ WITH 2ROUNDER GET A GOOD BIG GUY AND THE SUNS WILL DOMAINANT!
Why the caps? I can read without them.... Anyway, the freaken west is just too deep. I would love for the suns to do well...but i can't see them getting a title this year...maybe 2 years from now.
This is the bottom line. THE PHOENIX SUNS ARE A PIECE OF THE PAST PRESENT AND FUTURE. they will have a team of all-stars, and will contend 4 the title. tell me where u can find so many talented players. u guys say the heat r contenders, nice team but all they have is the big fella, but i might point out shaq's words i have seen the future of the NBA " and his name is AMARE Stoudemire. phoenix r every shot 2 win the tite if they are healthy and have chemistry. which they will. They are one of the most talented teams in the nba. AND WILL BE A LEGIT CHANCE TO GO FAR IN THE PLAYOFFS. wen we have a center, we will make ur heads spin! Go suns. ps. how is 2 all star olympians in the frontcourt a weak frouncourt lol wat a joke go Suns!!!!!!!!!!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting baz1988:</div><div class="quote_post">This is the bottom line. THE PHOENIX SUNS ARE A PIECE OF THE PAST PRESENT AND FUTURE. they will have a team of all-stars, and will contend 4 the title. tell me where u can find so many talented players. u guys say the heat r contenders, nice team but all they have is the big fella, but i might point out shaq's words i have seen the future of the NBA " and his name is AMARE Stoudemire. phoenix r every shot 2 win the tite if they are healthy and have chemistry. which they will. They are one of the most talented teams in the nba. AND WILL BE A LEGIT CHANCE TO GO FAR IN THE PLAYOFFS. wen we have a center, we will make ur heads spin! Go suns. ps. how is 2 all star olympians in the frontcourt a weak frouncourt lol wat a joke go Suns!!!!!!!!!!</div> Could not agree more. I hope people realize how talented the Suns really are.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting baz1988:</div><div class="quote_post">This is the bottom line. THE PHOENIX SUNS ARE A PIECE OF THE PAST PRESENT AND FUTURE. they will have a team of all-stars, and will contend 4 the title. tell me where u can find so many talented players. u guys say the heat r contenders, nice team but all they have is the big fella, but i might point out shaq's words i have seen the future of the NBA " and his name is AMARE Stoudemire. phoenix r every shot 2 win the tite if they are healthy and have chemistry. which they will. They are one of the most talented teams in the nba. AND WILL BE A LEGIT CHANCE TO GO FAR IN THE PLAYOFFS. wen we have a center, we will make ur heads spin! Go suns. ps. how is 2 all star olympians in the frontcourt a weak frouncourt lol wat a joke go Suns!!!!!!!!!!</div> The Key word is when. Centers are very rare to come by in this league. Its also much easier said than done. So please tell me who do you have in mind for the Suns to get? Not many legit big man available. So your telling me the Suns are better thhan the Heat? Pfffft Shaq could destroy any single person on the Suns at will. Dwyane Wade, Eddie Jones, And Wesley Person arn't exactly scrubs either. Wesley Person is a great 3 point shooter. Maybe if you actually watched some of his game wuo would know. Dwyane Wade a super star in the making. Eddie Jones a great player but past his prime but neverthelsee he is still good. Nash is the only one who will keep the Suns in the Hunt. A front court of people and neither can average a double double at this point in their career. and don't give me this crap about 2 Olympians. Emeka Okafor made it is he a all-star now? I don't thnik so. If Emeka Okafor can make the team at this point in his career. There are at least 30 players who can at LEAST . Also Chemistry is going to be hard as a lot of new people are here. I expect Steve Nash to handle it though and keep the offense organized. The Heat have Shaq as a great leader and Dwyane Wade who is capable of leading the team too. All the Suns have is Steve Nash as a leader.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Ace2k2:</div><div class="quote_post">The Key word is when. Centers are very rare to come by in this league. Its also much easier said than done. So please tell me who do you have in mind for the Suns to get? Not many legit big man available. So your telling me the Suns are better thhan the Heat? Pfffft Shaq could destroy any single person on the Suns at will. Dwyane Wade, Eddie Jones, And Wesley Person arn't exactly scrubs either. Wesley Person is a great 3 point shooter. Maybe if you actually watched some of his game wuo would know. Dwyane Wade a super star in the making. Eddie Jones a great player but past his prime but neverthelsee he is still good. Nash is the only one who will keep the Suns in the Hunt. A front court of people and neither can average a double double at this point in their career. and don't give me this crap about 2 Olympians. Emeka Okafor made it is he a all-star now? I don't thnik so. If Emeka Okafor can make the team at this point in his career. There are at least 30 players who can at LEAST . Also Chemistry is going to be hard as a lot of new people are here. I expect Steve Nash to handle it though and keep the offense organized. The Heat have Shaq as a great leader and Dwyane Wade who is capable of leading the team too. All the Suns have is Steve Nash as a leader.</div> Again you are wrong. This is the second rime I have responded to a post of yours about leadership. How many leaders do the Suns need. How many do the Lakers have? Very vague post on leadership. Shaq is the most dominant player and 3rd best player in the league right now (Timmy, KG), in my opinion. What do you mean Shaq is a leader. A leader leads by example. What did Shaq do in L.A.? He always cried about getting the ball, did nothing for team chemistry, openly critized managment, did not maintain a good playing weight. He did'nt lead on the court. Yes you can make the case he led by example (i.e.-how he played) but is A.I. a great team leader? D. Wayde? An excellent player but I have not seen any evidence that he is a great team leader. Nash is definetly a leader, Amare and all he did this summer for the Suns this summer in recruiting Nash and Q is a leader. What is leadership in the NBA anymore anyway. Give me your humble opinion and how it will help the Heat so much and hurt the Suns. I'm sure many other posters would like to hear your very humble opinion on the subject. Okay and now you say the two Suns players do not deserve to compete for their ountry. If anything D-Wade does not deserve to be there (he wasen't a last minute selection for nothing). Let's compare numbers last year MATRIX YEAR G GS MIN FG FG% 3P 3P% FT FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS 2003-2004 79 79 40.7 7.5-17.0 .440 1.1-3.4 .340 2.9-3.4 .851 2.11 1.3 2.0 2.6 2.7 6.6 9.3 2.7 19.0 AMARE YEAR G GS MIN FG FG% 3P 3P% FT FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS 2003-2004 55 53 36.8 7.5-15.7 .475 0.0-0.1 .200 5.6-7.9 .713 1.16 1.6 3.2 3.4 2.9 6.2 9.0 1.4 20.6 D-Wade YEAR G GS MIN FG FG% 3P 3P% FT FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS 2003-2004 61 56 34.9 6.1-13.1 .465 0.3-0.9 .302 3.8-5.1 .747 1.41 0.6 3.2 2.3 1.4 2.7 4.0 4.5 16.2 Yes a very good year but not up to par with either of the Suns represenatives. So if these two Suns players should not be in the Olympics should D-Wade? Also I guess you are saying that Amare former ROY, Matrix former All-Star do not deserve to be respected. Typical no-nothing. Also comparing the Suns to the Heat. Give the Suns a little respect. Five players on ths team are capable All-Stars and two have been already. The Heat have 3 possible All0Stars and two have been already. So the talent for the Suns is their. And please do not even give the arguement that W. Person is a great or legit player. I respect the man, former Sun, great shooter. He is the same player as a gut like Casey J. He averaged 6 points for the Hawks last year (The Hawks, that WNBA team in Atlanta)! He is nothing to be estatic about. Please respond to this post with your opinion because I have already gave you part of mine.
