I just copied and pasted this article because registration is required to read it on the website. West stays patient in center pursuit Grizzlies keeping tabs on Warriors' Dampier By Ronald Tillery Contact August 1, 2004 Grizzlies president Jerry West hasn't given up on a pursuit for free-agent center Erick Dampier. Not yet. Advertisement Just like West's NBA legacy, his patience apparently is quite long. Proof is in the amount of time and energy West has used in an attempt to acquire Dampier since July 1 when free agency began. A month later, West is now away on a pre-planned vacation but the Griz are still fishing for Dampier. "It's been frustrating," West said in a telephone interview. "But this (summer negotiating) is the fun part. I haven't lost patience. You have to be persistent. We're still trying." Memphis is negotiating a sign-and-trade deal with Golden State - Dampier's former team. So is New York. So is Indiana. Atlanta, which has money to spend under the salary cap, is waiting to hear if Dampier will accept its recent offer. Should we expect the Griz to vie for Dampier's services until the former Mississippi State big man officially leaves the free-agent block? "Yes," West said, "but who knows what will happen?" The exercise has been trying, and as even West acknowledged, could ultimately prove fruitless. Much like the Knicks, the Griz have tried to entice the Warriors with countless offers. The New York Post reported recently that Memphis and Atlanta had a pre-arranged deal. Atlanta would sign Dampier and trade him to Memphis in December when free agents can be moved by their new team. But such a scenario is risky given Dampier's history of injuries. Also, Atlanta could decide to keep Dampier should he perform better than expected. It is believed that the Griz were close to orchestrating a three-team trade last week. Although the third team is unknown, the Griz would send the Warriors three players and receive Dampier. None of the potential deals have included Griz forward Stromile Swift, a restricted free agent. Golden State is believed to want Swift, presumably making the price for Dampier too high for Memphis to pay. West offered no specifics. "All I can say is we're still working," West said. "I would say that things are very busy but very quiet. There have been a number of times when we thought we were in a good position to get something done. "But we need a lot of cooperation to get this done. We need us, an agent and another team. Nothing is looming. But we're hopeful." Dampier is represented by Dan Fegan, who reportedly has tried to steer his client to New York. Last month, Dampier expressed a desire to play in Memphis and told The Commercial Appeal: "I could be a very important piece for (the Griz)." The Grizzlies' stated goals following a 50-win season are to improve defensive rebounding, interior defense and perimeter shooting from the bench. After weeks of phone calls and negotiations, West's lone free-agent acquisition is former Golden State forward Brian Cardinal. The 6-8 big man signed a six-year deal and will likely supplant Bo Outlaw as the hard-working defender and rebounding forward/center off the bench. Cardinal, unlike Outlaw, will bring much-needed offense in reserve. Still, adding Cardinal essentially gave the Griz another versatile role player. West has worked the past few summers mainly searching for a center with more size. The Griz played the past three seasons primarily with Lorenzen Wright in the middle. Wright and backup, Swift, are considered undersized at that position. Despite their productivity, Memphis ranked 25th in defensive rebounding last season, and was 28th in that category during the 2002-03 campaign. Dampier is coming off his best professional season. He averaged 7.3 defensive rebounds in 74 games. Overall, Dampier averaged 12.3 points, 12 boards and 1.8 blocks - statistics only rivaled by those from his second season, in 1997-98. West said the Griz would soon pursue "another area that we feel good about" if a Dampier resolution doesn't come soon. "We're not desperate," West said. "We have a good team and a lot of depth. We may be desperate internally to do something. But we're not desperate to do something that's not wise."
I wonder what 3 players they were offering the W's. Must have been junk. Do they think Mully is a fool?
I don't know if Chris Mullin is a fool with the Fisher signings for 6 years? Jeez, if Fisher goes down that's just wasted cap space. Maybe Mullin isn't foolish, just generous because he used to be a player. Thx for the article, cmb628. BTW what players would you want from Memphis? I'd take Battier even though its for 6 years. The defense and versatility is worth it I think. I'm not sure about the cap, but screw it. We got one of the largest markets for sports next to LA, NY, and Cleveland and others. They can afford to go over and still make money. Cohan's gotta grow some pebbles and start spending.
I've pretty much given up with the speculation. I just can't wait until something DOES go down. When and what players will be involved, is still up in the air.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post"> BTW what players would you want from Memphis? </div> Take Stromile, Watson, and Wright. Swift is one of the most underated players in the NBA, Earl Watson(since you jinxed Fisher), and Wright will give you those rebounds you need. Behind J-Rich, Dunleavy, Murphy, and your "Superstar" Adonal Foyle you should be very nice competition in the west.
If only it were that easy... Mullin would do that trade in a heartbeat, but West is very reluctant to give away Swift, let alone 2 other sevicable players.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting sactomofo:</div><div class="quote_post">Isn't Swift still a free agent though?</div> So is Damp. It'll be a sign and trade so the contracts have to match and both players will have to agree on it.
Swift is a restricted free agent, who's not signed because Memphis has stated that it will match any offer made by another team. Since most teams can only offer the midlevel, it's a good deal for Memphis who won't have to overpay to keep him. I'd be surprised if West folded his hand and gave up Swift, he's still trying to get Damp without losing him.
I wouldn't want to take on any long term contracts unless it is for a very good player. The Warriors have no use for Swift now that they have Biedrins (and I'd take Biedrins over Swift because if he puts on 20 pounds he can play center, Swift will always be 6'9"). As for Fisher and Foyle's contracts, if the Warriors can move Eschmeyer in a deal for Damp while only taking on expiring contracts, then that will make up for the money Mullin overpaid those two. By the way, I believe now that Battier signed his extension, he's a poison pill, so any trade for him would be more complicated. I'll keep saying this, other than Gasol (and maybe Williams) there is no player on the Griz that would not be a duplicate of a player already on the Warriors. I'd much rather let Damp walk to the East and use his cap space next year (which will still be considerable even though they signed Fisher and Foyle).
You don't want Battier? He's one of the league's best defenders. He almost gets a block a game, he can shoot from the outside, he gets steals, he plays smart, and he's versatile at the guard or forward spots. His numbers are down only because he was willing to play off the bench. If you ask who is the better Dukie I think its Battier by far over Dunleavy. I'd rather have Battier for 6 years than Dunleavy for 1.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">You don't want Battier? He's one of the league's best defenders. He almost gets a block a game, he can shoot from the outside, he gets steals, he plays smart, and he's versatile at the guard or forward spots. His numbers are down only because he was willing to play off the bench. If you ask who is the better Dukie I think its Battier by far over Dunleavy. I'd rather have Battier for 6 years than Dunleavy for 1.</div> I absolutely do not want Battier. While he's a better defender than Dunleavy, he's certainly not better than Pietrus. Battier is a good role player, but let's not kid ourselves, when he came into the league he was about as good as he was going to get. He'll never be an allstar, he's a 24 minute a night hustle guy. I said last month that Cardinal and Battier are about equal talentwise, and judging by the contracts he offered them, Jerry West seems to agree with me. From both a talent standpoint and an economic standpoint, I'd much rather have Dunleavy, Pietrus, and Richardson playing 32 minutes a night than those three plus Battier playing 24 minutes a night. Richardson, Dunleavy, and Pietrus all deserve to be playing more than 24 minutes a night. Having them sitting on the bench just means you're wasting money. While the Warriors are thin at the 3 if Dunleavy or Pietrus go down, I'd much rather take my chances with having to sign a sf to a 10 day contract than pay Battier 48 mil over 6 years to be Dunleavy's back up/insurance policy. No matter how you look at it, the simple fact is that if the Warriors traded Damp to Memphis, the Griz would be getting the better end of the deal, no matter who they got in return (unless it was Gasol). So why would the Warriors do it? There is no one on Memphis' roster that is significantly better than anyone on the Warriors roster. As far as Dunleavy goes, I'm willing to give him a clean slate. Rude and I see potential in Dunleavy, other posters here do not. The one thing we should all agree on though is that Musselman had Dunleavy on a very short leash for two years and Dunleavy didn't respond well. I think Montgomery will give Dunleavy much more freedom this year and we will see some very positive results. My confidence in Dunleavy is a big reason why I don't want to waste that much money on Battier who would probably be a 20 minute a night back up.
As always walker, I agree with everything you have said. You just are able to put it into words better than I can.
Great post Walker, I agree 100%. Im glad there are 4 of us that are supportive of Dunleavy. This is not the only board that bashes him either. Like I have said and many others have said before. Last year was basically his rookie year since he did not play hardly at all his first season, and Walker's right, he was on a short leash and would get yanked for making 1 bad play. This will be his breakout season for sure.
From the economic standpoint I can see why we'd want to avoid a 6 year deal when you got Pietrus that could be a possible starter someday in addition to Richardson. But man I just can't see it in Dunleavy. The same way all you guys think about Battier, I think Dunleavy's as good as he can get. I mean the coach put him out there and he can't nail open jumpers, he always settles for wide open 3's and blows them rather than nail a shot closer to the rim. They say he plays smart but manages to always do something really dumb like pick up cheap fouls or blows a layup inside. He always manages to lag behind too when it comes to getting out on perimeter shooters. But I don't know we'll see if his fine offensive game/ court vision can make up for his lack of physical abilities by this year or I've totally given up on him. I just think Battier would make that kind of impact we need to be a good defensive team than Dunleavy or Richardson ever would. Right now we suck and I just wonder what kind of team are we trying to make because Dunleavy seems like the odd man out if he can't score or defend and we got Murph or Foyle who can hustle for rebounds as starter. I pray we have some kind of plan like to become the Detroit Pistons or the 85-86 Celtics or atleast establish or own genre by making Dunleavy play some more point guard and start posting up his defenders. Nice post Wtwalker and thanks for the article cmb628 vbmenu_register("postmenu_302448", true);
[quote name='wtwalker77']There is no one on Memphis' roster that is significantly better than anyone on the Warriors roster. Being a Grizzlies fan i might be totally off base here but I see a huge diference between the Grizzlies and Warriors rosters. Sure you can match up James Posey and J-Rich (J-rich may actually have the advantage) but other then that I see a whole lot of miss matches. For example, are you saying that Dunlevey is as good as Mike Miller? Pietrus as good as Bonzi Wells or Shane Battier? or even making the stretch to say Clifford Robinson is as good as Pau Gasol? I will admit that the point guard situation is about the same but the 2,3,4's the Grizz have a signifigant advantage. That's just my veiw point tell me what you think.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting cwillgrizz41:</div><div class="quote_post">[quote name='wtwalker77']There is no one on Memphis' roster that is significantly better than anyone on the Warriors roster. Being a Grizzlies fan i might be totally off base here but I see a huge diference between the Grizzlies and Warriors rosters. Sure you can match up James Posey and J-Rich (J-rich may actually have the advantage) but other then that I see a whole lot of miss matches. For example, are you saying that Dunlevey is as good as Mike Miller? Pietrus as good as Bonzi Wells or Shane Battier? or even making the stretch to say Clifford Robinson is as good as Pau Gasol? I will admit that the point guard situation is about the same but the 2,3,4's the Grizz have a signifigant advantage. That's just my veiw point tell me what you think.</div> Dunleavy (11.7/5.9/2.9/45%/37% 3s/74% FTs) vs Miller (11.1/3.3/3.6/44%/37% 3s/72% FTs) Significant advantage? If any, they are wash. Also, West always wish to acquire Dunleavy ever since he entered NBA. He would have replaced Miller. There is no question that Bonzi or Battier is better than Pietrus now. But, watch out for his growth this year and next year. His offense is still very raw, but his defense is already being compared to Artest by many NBA analysts. Some fans also consider his potential higher than Richardson. And, he was also rumored to be West's rader in draft day, along with Richardson 3 years ago... Richardson over Posey. After all, Richardson is our go to guy. Signifnicant advantage at PF for Griz. After all, Gasol is Memphis' go to guy. Currently, Griz is better than Warriors. I am still skeptical on 10 men rotation, because sooner or later, somebody will complain about lack of mins. If that happens, we will see what West and Hubie will do...
Good post Kwan. But I've always felt stats are only relative to the type of role the players assume or are forced to take under a coach's system. You can analyze season stats and see simlar numbers between two different types of players with different roles on their team, but the bottom line is do they fit into that role well? You'd have to know by watching them and within the context of the system and team they are on. Like Gasol and Richardson have a lot of physical and mental game advantages that a lot of nba players don't have, making them prime "go to guy" candidates, but there are always checks and balances to these types of players that coaches can substitute to take those players out of the game. Also the stats that Dunleavy had this year could be irrelevent since he could be a big part of our new coach's system for next season. Now I don't like Dunleavy very much because of he's kind of slow and not that energetic, but some see Dunleavy as a real big setup guy and potential star player, someone that can score and get others involved with strong fundamentals and size. He had a real strong second half of the season and he did pretty well in putting up numbers with his first couple of games when Richardson wasn't there. It's easy for some to give Dunleavy a second chance because the bottomline was that his rare talents weren't being used properly with the type of system (or lack therof) that former W's coach, Eric Musselman was using. Same thing with Pietrus who only got minutes until late in the season. Therefore I tend to believe that Pietrus and Dunleavy's stats were pretty meaningless because of the minimal role they were forced to play under Musselman. But everyone could see their ability to create some impact. Like Mike Miller Dunleavy can play point guard, some shooting guard, or small forward. Although he's not as athletic as Miller, Dunleavy can rebound pretty decently and he passes well and will probably play a major role under Montgomery's system with some help in the inside. When I contrast Dunleavy's potential under the new coach to Hubie Brown's system I see Miller as kind of the same guy to take an occasional big shot or play some point at duty. Keep in mind I'm not knocking Mike Miller or the grizzlies, They are definitely a good team, better than the warriors as a team overall and they've got a great coach that deserved the COY recognition for getting the franchise to make the playoffs for the first time. But it seems the 2/3 spots for both teams doesn't really make one have an advantage over the other if you consider the kind of potential Pietrus/Dunleavy have that could have been translated into some scoring stats if Musselman had utilized them properly. Also, like Kwan said with the Grizzlies there's a big question of who should get the minutes and who is willing to settle for being a role player. Posey could be a very good player. Bonzi Wells could be a star shooting guard. Miller and Battier are good small forwards. They all deserve minutes, but they know there are only a limited number of touches and everyone has to play defense and do the things that don't show up on the stat sheet. So if they all have minutes to fight over and only one guy can shoot the ball at a time, it forces the rest of the guys under Hubie Brown to be role players and then everyone else's stats will have less meaning because a lot of times they don't include how many shots these guys are taking and what game situations they're up against. I mean the stats show they are capable of putting up those numbers, but it's more important to think about how Dunleavy could have a really big role (even though I'm not a fan) as a big passing man under Montgomery's system that could add to the same team point production that any of the small forwards on Memphis could accumulate. And then Pietrus could develop a good offensive game with his already talented style of defense. Keep in mind some teams look great on paper and some don't (2002 Clippers), but the bottomline is does everyone fit into their role and do they fit under the type of system that can help the team win games. After all it's both a coach's game and a game of mismatches. And Dunleavy had a coach with no system last year and he wasn't used as that huge mismatch enough. The team chemistry was also off and on and we got rid of that headache and shipped him to Portland.
Awesome post by both..... Yes it's true that West was after both Pietrus and Dunleavy during their drafts but both went before our pick. Like custodianrules2 said I believe it all has to do with the situation the players are put in. I'm not sure that someone like Pietrus could all of a sudden blossum as say Posey did ( I know there is a talent difference but just saying in perspective).I think the warriors players do have the potential they are just inexperienced so thats why I would rate the grizz's 2-3s better now, but in a few years who knows. Also, I think the 10 man rotation can really wear down teams but I'm not sure how much longer we are going use it. Depending on what we have to give up to get a center will be the deciding factor on that. Their is a lot of talk of us loosing Bonzi or Battier. Thus, freeing up time for Posey, Miller. But If the players are ok with the 10 man rotation I think go for it because we have so much depth in every position, but I do think Gasol and Posey have to get their time because they are our stars. So are people really thinking so highly of Pietrus. I haven't seen to much of him but the way you describe his game it sounds like he could be another Posey like player.
