How come no one has metioned the potential problem of Ray being a shooting guard? We need a small forward to replace Vince in any deal that we make because neither Allen or Rose are capable of defending the position. Neither or them can handle playing the forward spot so it would make our backcourt undersized along with our already undersized frontcourt.
How about Allen and some garbage contracts for Rose and a few picks? It'd be sick if we could pull that off. Allen and Carter are really good friends, so we know Vince would like that. Biggest problem would probably be there wouldn't be enough shots to go around.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Allen and Carter are really good friends, so we know Vince would like that </div> are you joking? last I checked, Vince Carter almost broke Ray Allen's nose in a Feburary game in 2000 cause he didnt make the Olympic team (and later he made it tho) but that was 4 years ago, I'm pretty sure things have changed, correct me if I'm wrong.
If Ray really wanna come to Toronto, then Supersonics might have to whatever we offer... then all they gotta do is make sure they keep Vince here. Come on now, Ray and Vince duo, who wouldn't wanna see that? Also, wasn't Vince the one that kept on complainin about havin another superstar to help him out?
They don't have to trade Ray Allen to wherever he wants to go, they don't even have to trade him...so they don't have to take Toronto's best offer for him.
I think all of you that say Vince for Ray is a fair deal, are smoking crack. Toronto isn't a basketball city, and VC fills seats. Ray ray can't do it like that. Vince scores 20, dimes out 5-6 a game (should be closer to 10), and plays better defence then Ray. And if you ask me, with 3 seconds left on the clock, down by one, i'd rather have the ball in vinces hand then allens. NO WAY THATS A FAIR DEAL. Ray can't fill Vince's shoes.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">Rose can't play defense at any position, it really doesn't matter with him </div> yeah i agree og but at least rose trys, don't know if i can say the same about vince.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting norespect:</div><div class="quote_post">I think all of you that say Vince for Ray is a fair deal, are smoking crack. Toronto isn't a basketball city, and VC fills seats. Ray ray can't do it like that. Vince scores 20, dimes out 5-6 a game (should be closer to 10), and plays better defence then Ray. And if you ask me, with 3 seconds left on the clock, down by one, i'd rather have the ball in vinces hand then allens. NO WAY THATS A FAIR DEAL. Ray can't fill Vince's shoes.</div> A pure biased opinion. Toronto will keep filling seats way passed Vinces time, Vince helps that cause but it will still continue - just look at the seasons Vince has missed, it was a sellout almost every night (2 years ago, an injury year, 40 of 41 home games sold out). As long as all the corporate companies continue to get tickets the franchise would be fine without Vince Carter. Having Ray would be a fair trade, if not, its in favour for us.
Ray Allen wouldn't mind playing anywhere, he was asked about the trade and as always was respectful about the city of who he's been suggested in going to. I think people here are taking his comments too seriously. The deal wouldn't be an upgrade for either team really, Seattle need to get a big man for Ray...not trade him away for another guard.
Heres a Vince and Ray comparison Lets start with D, both are poor defenders but Vinces athletic ability gives him the potential to improve but I don't see it happening. ADV=Draw Shooting-Vince is a good shooter but Ray is a great shooter. ADV=Ray Driving- Well neither seems to do it as much as they should, but when they do do it Vince seems to finisher better just because of his leaping ability, but ray is no slouch when it comes to finishing. ADV=Vince Ballhandling- Ray is able to run the point sometimes while vince can't. ADV=Ray Passing-Both are good passers or atleast have good assist numbers, but Ray seems to have more accurate passes.ADV=Ray Scoring- Both can score but vince can do it in more ways than ray can.ADV=Vince Durabilaty-Vince has had a history of injury but played 73 games last year. Ray has been injury free through out his carrer but encountered a bad ankle injury this past season but came back fine after the surgery. ADV=Ray Overall Avantage Ray=4 Vince=2 and 1 draw According to my comparision Ray is the better player, but based on teams needs it would vary between which you would prefer. I think both teams would be better off keeping there respective stars. btw. any deal involving Ray would need Vince involved
The only way that this trade would ever happen is if carter made the choice. I don't think that the raptors will trade him if he does decide he wants 2 stay.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Xman:</div><div class="quote_post">Heres a Vince and Ray comparison Lets start with D, both are poor defenders but Vinces athletic ability gives him the potential to improve but I don't see it happening. ADV=Draw Shooting-Vince is a good shooter but Ray is a great shooter. ADV=Ray Driving- Well neither seems to do it as much as they should, but when they do do it Vince seems to finisher better just because of his leaping ability, but ray is no slouch when it comes to finishing. ADV=Vince Ballhandling- Ray is able to run the point sometimes while vince can't. ADV=Ray Passing-Both are good passers or atleast have good assist numbers, but Ray seems to have more accurate passes.ADV=Ray Scoring- Both can score but vince can do it in more ways than ray can.ADV=Vince Durabilaty-Vince has had a history of injury but played 73 games last year. Ray has been injury free through out his carrer but encountered a bad ankle injury this past season but came back fine after the surgery. ADV=Ray Overall Avantage Ray=4 Vince=2 and 1 draw According to my comparision Ray is the better player, but based on teams needs it would vary between which you would prefer. I think both teams would be better off keeping there respective stars. btw. any deal involving Ray would need Vince involved</div> Decent analysis, but here's the only problem, I think they're about equal in passing, because if you look, Ray has always been on a dcently fast paced offensive team with good options. This year the Raptors were not fast paced, and the options were god but the offense didn't allow them to play good. If Vince was playing in an offense with options like Ray's, he'd put up about the same passing numbers, and his FG%, scoring numbers, and rebounds (didn't KO not want offensive rebounds, thats about 1 less rebound for Vince) would all go up. I'd like Ray though even though he's a little older, and not better really, but he's a good guy to have, and we'll be running a fast paced offense so we won't screw up his game by trying to play a defensive style
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting norespect:</div><div class="quote_post">I think all of you that say Vince for Ray is a fair deal, are smoking crack. Toronto isn't a basketball city, and VC fills seats. Ray ray can't do it like that. Vince scores 20, dimes out 5-6 a game (should be closer to 10), and plays better defence then Ray. And if you ask me, with 3 seconds left on the clock, down by one, i'd rather have the ball in vinces hand then allens. NO WAY THATS A FAIR DEAL. Ray can't fill Vince's shoes.</div> Strange comments. Since becoming a Sonic, Ray has averaged 23, 5 and 5, notched two triple doubles and exploded in fourth quarters. Both are horrible defenders, but you are overrated Vince and underrated Ray with that post. FWIW, I'm not overly keen on this trade, though it wouldn't be bad. I would really rather try and work it so we could get Donyell is any deal as well (perhaps giving up Radmanovic and Daniels). While Ray's contract situation is up in the air, I'm not super keen on swallowing the remaining four years (I think) of VC's deal, unless there is some sort of assurity VC is going to stay healthy and produce, not just sit on the perimeter and miss games everytime he strains something.
Well healthy can't be guranteed, but he wasn't really injured last year, so very likely won't be getting injured. Now the perimeter thing, the Sonics run a good offense, and with guys on the team who can score, and spread the floor, Carter would likely flourish in the team, in any better offensive system which is all but maybe the Bulls , he'd put up much better numbers than he did this season. If Carter was to go for Ray, I'd like a Carter + Donyell for Ray Allen, Potapenko or Daniels, and Radmonovic.
If the trade were to go down, I'd also like to see Ronald Murray coming over somehow. Last season, there was a stretch where he started and averaged 20 some points I think? He's got game.
HA!!!!! Vince is a very underated defender.. his defence surpasses ray allens by a far extent... I have seen both players play very much.. trust me vince has much better defence not to mentioon better passer. To say vince doesnt drive is to say shaq doesnt slam... just cuz he doesnt do it every posession doesnt mean he doesnt do it.. he drives much more than allen and just cuz you hear he settles for the jump shot (which i dont find is a bad thing since he is a very good shooter even with the defence in his face) he very rarely takes bad shots and lives inside the arc despite what u believe.. he drives more than most know.
I thought this trade to be interesting......COMMENTS?? Toronto trades: PF Donyell Marshall (14.7 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 1.5 apg in 36.5 minutes) SG Jalen Rose (15.5 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 5.0 apg in 37.9 minutes) Toronto receives: C Jerome James (5.0 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.5 apg in 15.2 minutes) SG Ray Allen (23.0 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 4.8 apg in 38.4 minutes) Change in team outlook: -2.2 ppg, -5.2 rpg, and -1.2 apg. Seattle trades: C Jerome James (5.0 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.5 apg in 15.2 minutes) SG Ray Allen (23.0 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 4.8 apg in 38.4 minutes) Seattle receives: SG Jalen Rose (15.5 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 5.0 apg in 66 games) C Elden Campbell (5.5 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.7 apg in 65 games) Change in team outlook: -7.0 ppg, -1.4 rpg, and +0.4 apg. Detroit trades: C Elden Campbell (5.5 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.7 apg in 13.7 minutes) Detroit receives: PF Donyell Marshall (14.7 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 1.5 apg in 82 games) Change in team outlook: +9.2 ppg, +6.6 rpg, and +0.8 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED Maybe T.O can throw in a pick or something to Seattle
