Well the thing about Ginobili is just that he doesn't know what he position he plays. He can't pass well enough to be a PG, he can't shoot well enough to be a SG, so what happens? He comes off the bench. Now I love me some Ginobili, but you can't compare him to Peja. And you pick Dallas to have a better record than Portland? I really can't see that happening. Randolph had one of the best seasons of any player last year and is only getting better. If they convince Shareef to play SF, they have an amazing frontcourt with Theo in the middle. Adding Van Exel, one of the best clutch players in the league, I see the Blazers going around 6th. I'm sorry, but I just can't picture the Mavs in the playoffs next year, that is, unless they end up getting Dampier.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Ace2k2:</div><div class="quote_post"> Amare Stoudemire is better than Peja. Who would you honestly choose Amare or Peja to have on your team? IF you say PEja you are just a biased fan boy.</div> It depends on whether or not you are talking about the past or the present. In the present, I will take Peja. He's a more developed player right now, is the best shooter in the league, and scores the second highest points per game average in the league. In the future, I will take Amare Stoudamire, but that's the future. Right now he's still young, raw, and has a lot of potential yet to be fulfilled. Also, what's this crap about being a fan boy? I am not a fan of Peja Stojakovic nor the Sacramento Kings. I'm a Grizzlies fan who likes Jason Kidd and Pau Gasol. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Lamar Odom is arguable, but I think hes still better. Dwyane Wades future is MUCH better than Peja. </div> We're not talking about the future, are we? There's a chance that Wade may develop into the player than Stojakovic, but you could say that about any second or third year player like him. The fact of the matter is that now he's nowhere near as valuable as Stojakovic. Hell, he was real close to just being tacked onto the Shaq-Odom trade. As for Lamar Odom, Stojakovic is more consistant. Talent aside, he's been around for a number of years and in my opinion is more reliable both on and off the court. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Now Dwyane Wade has the potential to become a top 5 player in the futture. Peja just doesnt. I am basing it on value to a team. How can you even consider having Peja over Dwyane Wade? Maybe if you ever watched him y'd know. Peja can not creat e his own shots if his life depended on it. </div> Stop talking about the future. That's getting really annoying. Peja is good in the present. Of course he'll get old and Wade will reach his prime someday. That's just the way things work in the NBA. Right now Wade is not better than Peja Stojakovic though. If Stojakovic were American, you could bet your ass Wade would not be in an Olympic jersey right now. As for Peja not being able to create his own shots, that's being very hard on him. Just because he doesn't create his own shot often, it doesn't mean that the ability is not there. He and the Kings more efficient doing things the other way around. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">As for Jason Kidd HAHAHAH. An NBA pure point guard with the ability to make all teammates not better han Peja. Also as you said PEja had crappy playoffs this year. You then say his last year play offs were sooo great. Then you turn around and say J-Kidd isn't better than Peja because he had an injury this season. Make up your mind already! Jeez.</div> Jeez yourself. The two things don't have anything to do with eachother. Kidd's injury is very relevant because he may never come back 100% again. He's going to enter next season as an old man with bad knees. Peja's past performance in the playoffs is also very relevant. You were calling him a playoff choker. I still fail to see how I can't talk about both Kidd's knees and Peja's past performance. Please explain yourself. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Jason Kidd had an injury this season. Pejas play offs sucked this season.</div> Yes, but having bad playoffs will not hinder your play in the future quite like a knee injury. Bad playoffs will only motivate you to play even better. What don't you understand about that? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Their overall career so far is what really counts. Kidd is also on my list of top 50 players ever. Peja is far from it.</div> I'm not arguing that. If you would have read through my other post, you would have known that I'm probably the biggest Jason Kidd fan on this board. I have the most respect for him. However, his career up to this point is irrelevant if you don't take into consideration his current shape and condition. That's like calling Michael Jordan better than Kobe Bryant a few years ago simply because he had a better overall career. It just doesn't work that way. Kidd has had an amazing career, but he's old now and has bad knees. Meanwhile, Peja is coming up on his prime. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> You also seem to like mentioning the season a lot. The season is only intended for the seeds. Peja allowed his team to get a high seed. But then what did he do with that seed? Take his team to a 2nd play off exit.</div> The playoffs are a great place to cement your legacy as one of the greats, but it's not the best place to judge players. Tayshaun Prince, Rip Hamilton, and Tony Parker were among the top 20 performers in the playoffs. Are any of them top 20 players? It's really not fair to judge everything on the playoffs. Almost half of the players don't even make the playoffs. What is even more unfair is to judge a certain player on just one playoffs. I've said it a lot already, but in the 2003 playoffs Peja averaged 23 ppg, 7rpg, and shot 48% from the field. The fact that you are still debating the point that he's a bad playoff performer thus is a bad player is laughable. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">J-Kidd has led his team far and good this year. He was only stopped by the Pistons(who won the champinoship) and brang it to a 7 game series farther than any other team has taken the Pistons including the Lakers.</div> Jason Kidd also played in the East with a team that has Kenyon Martin and Richard Jefferson. Do you even remember when he played in the West. The Suns were perennial losers. They'd never make it out of the first round and were even smashed by the Kings in one of Kidd's last years on the team. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Just my 2 cents</div> I'll enjoy hearing your response. A good debate never hurt anyone. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Peja isnt even the best European 1)Dirk 2)AK47 3)Gasol 4)Ginobili 5)Peja Maybe top5 Euro?</div> Samoan, please back up your statements. Peja not better than Kirilenko, Gasol, and Ginobili? Dirk is arguable, but you've still got to state why you feel that way if you make a bogus statement like that. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'd even choose Bibby over Peja, at least he hits his clutch shots instead of throwing up AAAAAAAAAAAAIR BAAAAAAAALLS</div> First of all, performance in the clutch does not measure the talent of a player. Peja Stojakovic is the best shooter in the NBA regaurdless of what he shows in the last minute of the game. Second of all, you seem to be doing what Ace did. You're taking one incident or one playoff series and using that to form opinions on all of Peja's games and series. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">As for Peja, I'm a little biased, but I hate him. Sure he's a great shooter, I won't deny that. But he does nothing else, and gets almost all his points simply because he's on the best passing team in the league.</div> He averaged 6.3 rebounds per game and 2.1 assists per game last season. Those aren't great stats by any means, but it shows that he's not just shooting. Hell, 6.1 rebounds per game is a better average than both Tracy McGrady and Kobe Bryant had. Also, Allen Iverson could be on the Kings and not score as much as Peja while shooting the same percentage. Iverson shot almost 10% worse last season. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm gonna have to disagree, Dirk doesnt get the chance to show that he's clutch because of Finley and Nellie. He will be able to take the mavs to the playoffs, I'll put some benjamins on that.</div> I don't think many players these days can be labled as clutch players or chokers. Dirk hasn't exactly been the most clutch player in the past with the Mavericks, but he has certainly been clutch in the Olympics. Overshadowed by Iverson's desperation shot to win the scrimage against Germany, Nowitzki hit a three pointer that tied the game for his team right before. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Have you seen Ginobili play??? He can't shoot as good as Peja but he can defend, pass, and what makes him better (IMO) than Peja is his ability to create his own shot. Peja is gonna be struggling now that he doesnt have Vlade to give him the ball all the time, but not taking anything away from Bibby.</div> That's too many crazy statements for one paragraph. I believe Ginobili is a hell of a player. In fact, I once found myself in an arguement as to who I'd rather have on my team, Iverson or Ginobili. However, the fact of the matter is that Ginobili only averaged 12.8 ppg, 4.5 rpg, and 3.8 apg. Also, Vlade Divac is one of the decade's best passing Centers, but do you really think that he did all too much last year? Do you honestly think that taking him away will really have enough of a negative effect on Peja to make him "struggle"? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">1. Spurs 2. Wolves 3. Rockets 4. Nuggets 5. Kings 6. Grizz 7. Dallas 8. Lakers</div> Again, support your post. This just seems like biased crap. Be like Jamalicious and list some reasons for your opinions in your next posts. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">peja cant create his own shot. if you want peja to perform at his best, he needs a good passing team. sacramento is perfect. bibby and webber are great passers, and christie aint half bad. brad miller is probably their worst passer, and even he isnt too shabby. peja gets a lot of pick and rolls. wut actually happens is: 1. bibby w/ the ball 2. someone sets a pick near the 3pt line 3. peja utilizes the pick 4. bibby passes to peja 5. peja shoots. if he goes to a team like the Raptors, hes pretty much screwed. the only good passers on the team is jalen rose, and maybe alvin williams. carter is an ok passer, but he will be gone if raps get peja.</div> I understand that a lot of his points are scored off of passes, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have the ability to create his own shot. He's a long, athletic, and extremely small forward. I'm sure he could create his own shot if he wanted to, but for the time being why knock him for hitting pretty much 50% of his jumpers off good passes? Everytime there's a good passer on a team, do you attribute every one of his teammate's points to his good passing? It's a two-way street. Maybe they wouldn't be considered such great passers if Peja wasn't knocking down their shots.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jamalicious:</div><div class="quote_post">Well the thing about Ginobili is just that he doesn't know what he position he plays. He can't pass well enough to be a PG, he can't shoot well enough to be a SG, so what happens? He comes off the bench. Now I love me some Ginobili, but you can't compare him to Peja. And you pick Dallas to have a better record than Portland? I really can't see that happening. Randolph had one of the best seasons of any player last year and is only getting better. If they convince Shareef to play SF, they have an amazing frontcourt with Theo in the middle. Adding Van Exel, one of the best clutch players in the league, I see the Blazers going around 6th. I'm sorry, but I just can't picture the Mavs in the playoffs next year, that is, unless they end up getting Dampier.</div> Ginobili does other things for his team to like play defense, and create his own shots and gets to the basket. Not all SGs look at Iverson, he usally attacks the basket. Peja also has to be on a good passing team for him to score. But Ginobili as the starting SG on any other team and will definately perform. I can see Dallas making the playoffs and not portland. Randolf is good but he cant help them to make the playoffs. Shareef will have a hard time at SF and at guarding other SFs. Ratliff is on the downside of his career and will only give you a few blocks. No one on the blazers will be able to stop finley or daniels or terry. There backcourt is weak. Van Exel maybe clutch but hes all they have. Finley and Nowitzki is clutch. And Nowitzki is an all-star. Ofcourse there going to the playoffs.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">You start Stackhouse, because Stackhouse is a proven player and Daniels isn't. Don't get me wrong, I was very impressed with Daniels. However, the fact of the matter is that Stackhouse is like an 8-year veteran who averaged 30 ppg not too long ago. He's the established player. You never start the young kid over the experienced vet. They are young and have a decent future, but the point is that there are younger teams out there with better futures. The Grizzlies and Nuggets are both more loaded right now and are also younger, just to name a few. Any team that starts Booth at Center is not going to make it very far. The Memphis Grizzlies have a better bench. A deep team is nice, but unless you fully utilize the depth in a ten man rotation like Hubie Brown does in Memphis then it's not as big of a factor.</div> I would like to see Daniels become the second best player on this team. In my opinion, Stack and him don't need to be mutually exclusive. Send a message to Daniels by starting him. Griz and Nugs are young with hugely bright futures. But they don't have Dirk. Yes, Gasol and KMart are good, but not there. We're just lacking a center. Hubie is greatness. I'm hoping the Mavs will play 10 guys, 48 minutes of hell. The nice thing is that they could still light it up, but add some full court press. I think the loss of rebounding may bite us, unless we get a Damp in.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Again, support your post. This just seems like biased crap. Be like Jamalicious and list some reasons for your opinions in your next posts.</div> 1. Spurs-They are basically the team from last year while just picking up a very talented Brent Barry. 2. Wolves-As the same for Spurs, but this time they'll have a healthy Wally for the season. 3. Rockets-Tmac was a great pickup, and Bob Sura will serve as a great backup. And Mo Taylor is a sleeper, no body knows that he can be a force 4. Nuggets-Kenyon Martin is overatted but I think that he is still an upgrade to the already talented Nuggets and Nene will become a premiere forward and Camby is now healthy. 5. Kings-I struggle putting the Kings in 5th but Chris Webber cant suck for that long. And Bibby is a premiere point gaurd and he is the heart and soul of this team. Plus the addition of Ostertag brought them down IMO. 6. Grizz-Still strong and if they are able to bring in either Damp or the swap w/ Wells and Artest then they'll be in front of the Kings 7. Dallas-The Defense has Improved In a lot of our young guys, although I dont see them making a big statement in the beggining look for Quis', Josh, Harris, and Dirk to change a lot of that. Plus Terry could be headed to New Jersey. T-54 days. 8. Lakers-Kobe will struggle but unlike Tmac in Orlando Odom is enough help to get them in the Post Season <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Samoan, please back up your statements. Peja not better than Kirilenko, Gasol, and Ginobili? Dirk is arguable, but you've still got to state why you feel that way if you make a bogus statement like that.</div> Gasol is better for the fact that he can be givin the ball and the team can count on him to score. The same thing goes for Ginobili, Plus these guys can defend the ball, And Kirelenko is better than both of these guys at that(Avg. 2+blk. and 2+stl.) and he can shoot. I'd put him over Dirk if Dirk wasnt such a monster at Scoring. And did you see Ginobili's numbers when he was starting in the beggining of the season.(Avg 20+pts. 5+reb. 5+ast.) Now he'll finally get his chance to start and he will be great. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">First of all, performance in the clutch does not measure the talent of a player. Peja Stojakovic is the best shooter in the NBA regaurdless of what he shows in the last minute of the game. Second of all, you seem to be doing what Ace did. You're taking one incident or one playoff series and using that to form opinions on all of Peja's games and series.</div> THE PLAYOFFS ARE ONE BIG CLUTCH PERFORMANCE, AND WHERE WAS PEJA?????? WHERE WAS HE VOODOO?????(sorry for yelling)
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting samoan-maverick:</div><div class="quote_post">Gasol is better for the fact that he can be givin the ball and the team can count on him to score.</div> I dissagree with you about Gasol being able to score if he gets the ball. Most of the time in the final minutes of the game for the Grizzlies, they draw up plays for Posey, Williams, or Battier. They rarely draw up plays for Gasol because he's almost the anti-clutch. He dropped the ball, missed wide open layups, or traveled in the last 24 seconds last year more than five or six times. After that, we stopped giving the ball to Gasol so often. Peja is far more reliable. How can you not rely on scoring from someone who shoots 48% and is 2nd in the league in scoring? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The same thing goes for Ginobili, Plus these guys can defend the ball,</div> If Ginobili is such a reliable scorer then howcome he only averages about thirteen points per game? Also, Ginobili can defend the ball but not Pau Gasol. He's the worst defender on the Grizzlies. Fundamentally, he's pretty decent defensively, but with his stick-figure body he gets pushed around 99% of the time by guys like Randolph and B.Wallace who are five inches shorter but five times as big. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And Kirelenko is better than both of these guys at that(Avg. 2+blk. and 2+stl.) and he can shoot. I'd put him over Dirk if Dirk wasnt such a monster at Scoring.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">There has been others where Peja has been one of the best players in the NBA, and there will be more where Peja will be one of the best players. </div> I must of been in akoma for the past couple years cuz this was the first time you heard Peja's NAME being mention this post season. Unless you wanna count the AAAAAAAAAIIIIIRRRRRR BAAAAAAAALLLLLLL
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting samoan-maverick:</div><div class="quote_post"> I must of been in akoma for the past couple years cuz this was the first time you heard Peja's NAME being mention this post season. Unless you wanna count the AAAAAAAAAIIIIIRRRRRR BAAAAAAAALLLLLLL</div> I don't speak samoan.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't speak samoan. </div> ME NEITHER
Just noticed the Mavs have 17 players currently under contract. Thats just a few too many. How many does the league let you have at one time on your current roster again? And are there more trades coming?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting grinder333:</div><div class="quote_post">Just noticed the Mavs have 17 players currently under contract. Thats just a few too many. How many does the league let you have at one time on your current roster again? And are there more trades coming?</div> 15. If i was a betting man (which i am) i would put money on a few more moves getting done.
You can have as many guaranteed contracts as you like, but when it comes down to it, a team can only have 15 players on their team, and possibly a couple more if the league gives them a injury exception to add a player to the roster.
going back to the "who i'd take over Peja" argument, I'd have to lean more towards Ace2K2's list... I'd rather take: the obvious - Kobe, KG, Duncan.. I wouldn't take Shaq, he's too old and won't be any good 4-5 years from now.. I'd also take Yao, Jermaine O'Neal, Pau Gasol, Elton Brand, Ben Wallace... because size (with skill) is hard to find in the NBA. Then I'd take AK47 because he does so many little things for Utah - steals, blocks, rebounds, assists, points, etc.., TMac, Wade, LBJ I'm not going to list anyone old or injury-prone because Peja's always been pretty healthy and is still pretty young. Peja's a deadeye shooter and can also rebound fairly well, but he's a liability defensively. I'd rather have one of the above players and pick up a Voshon Lenard, Kyle Korver or Wesley Person as the designated outside shooter. And if I'm Sacramento, there's no way I'd trade Peja for VC aka "Half-Man Half-Season"
