Who said the Suns have no help at the backup pg? Leandro Barbosa, hello! He is an excellent defender and 3-point shooter. He is a little sparatic at the point but the summer leagues and more practicing will only make him a better player. No shooters? Please. Zarko C. is an excellent shooter when he is 100% healthy. Nash is a great shooter, same with JJ. How many great shooters do you need on a team anyway? How many do the Lakers or the Mavs have? The Suns are set with the shooters they have on their team.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SunWarrior:</div><div class="quote_post">YEA THEY WENT TO THE NBA FINALS!</div> Yeah they went to the Finals by ADDING on to the Kobe and Shaq dynasty. Kobe and Shaq had already been the the Finals by themselves. Have Marion and Amare been to the Finals? No. And those are the players that the Suns are adding on to. Has Nash ever been to the Finals? Has Q ever been to the finals (or playoffs? ). So please stop acting stupid.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jurassic:</div><div class="quote_post"> Yeah they went to the Finals by ADDING on to the Kobe and Shaq dynasty. Kobe and Shaq had already been the the Finals by themselves. Have Marion and Amare been to the Finals? No. And those are the players that the Suns are adding on to. Has Nash ever been to the Finals? Has Q ever been to the finals (or playoffs? ). So please stop acting stupid.</div> If I am not mistaken it was the bench and the overall depth of the Lakers that was a weakness not only in the regular season but the playoffs and finals as well. How did the Lakers add players to the Shaq and Kobe dynasty. Also I'm wondering why you think that the fact that no Suns players have been to the Finals means something. Had any of the Pistons's players been to the Finals except L. Hunter (not a major piece of the team)? I don't think so! In the long run these reasons you have stated might impact a teams chances on reaching the Finals slightly. In this arguement though it makes you sound like a man who knows or cares little about Basketball and what teams with great talent (Suns) can do. Just my opinion.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SunWarrior:</div><div class="quote_post">I know I am going to get so much critzicim from Laker and Kings fans but be open minded. I think it is very possible the Suns can win the division. Think about it, the lakers are weak from losing more than half of the line up, and the kings just are ummm well not that great of a team in terms of if they lose bibby or pete/vince(maybe) they well lose composure and break down. Alright take ur best shot </div> They wont win the divission if they trade marion for a big man that averages under 15 points and doesnt get a double double. They wont win the division with this current team either. They have nash, marion, Q, Amare, and Joe Johnson. After that there players are either average or below average talents. Barbosa still is not good enough to handle point guard duties as either there starter or back up imo. He should be either a guy who plays off guard or limited time at the point. Then Jacobson is a valuable trade peace because of "potential" he still has not shown much promise to the team. Then they have Q who without any question is good, but shoots under 40% . He can not hit the jumper consistantly as you would like gets alot of points on the break. He needs to improve his jumper to fully reach his talent capabilities. If your gona say the susn can win the division with 4 good players and a decent above average one. The lakers would have more of a shot with odam, kobe, butler, rush, divac,and grant because they have really got more talent then the phoinex roster does in there bench.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Pure Skillz:</div><div class="quote_post"> Barbosa still is not good enough to handle point guard duties as either there starter or back up imo. He should be either a guy who plays off guard or limited time at the point. Then Jacobson is a valuable trade peace because of "potential" he still has not shown much promise to the team. </div> Barbosa showed that he can play in the NBA Last year, he can be a great backup in the league, and I don't see no reason why he shouldn't be. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Pure Skillz:</div><div class="quote_post">They wont win the divission if they trade marion for a big man that averages under 15 points and doesnt get a double double. They wont win the division with this current team either. They have nash, marion, Q, Amare, and Joe Johnson. After that there players are either average or below average talents. </div> I agree that they won't win the division with their current lineup, but they dont need a roster filled with above average players to win Casey Jacobsen, Barbosa, Voshkul, Lampe are Carpakapa average players and can fill their rotation out. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Pure Skillz:</div><div class="quote_post"> Then they have Q who without any question is good, but shoots under 40% . He can not hit the jumper consistantly as you would like gets alot of points on the break. He needs to improve his jumper to fully reach his talent capabilities. If your gona say the susn can win the division with 4 good players and a decent above average one. The lakers would have more of a shot with odam, kobe, butler, rush, divac,and grant because they have really got more talent then the phoinex roster does in there bench.</div> Q's inside game and rebounding can make up for his outside game. His problem is that he takes too many jumpers and falls in love with it after he gets going, like many players. And your comparasion isnt that good of one with the Lakers. The Lakers have 2 players that can carry a team throughout games, Kobe and Odom. The suns have 5, Nash, JJ, Amare, Q and Marion. They may not be able to all do it individually, but they can feed off eachother and take over games.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Banks:</div><div class="quote_post">The Lakers have 2 players that can carry a team throughout games, Kobe and Odom. The suns have 5, Nash, JJ, Amare, Q and Marion. They may not be able to all do it individually, but they can feed off eachother and take over games.</div> Actually Caron Butler is very capable of taking over a game like he showed in his rookie season and last year when he was healthy. Also Rush can get hot and have a great outting. Divac can control a game with his tempo of posting up and making a sweet pass. Marion may be traded and probably has been specualted as leaving the suns after the olympics in a trade for a big man. So that evens it out to 4-3 in favor of the suns. Then the lakers have atkins who can basically do what JJ does and some times get hot like he did with the celtics in the playoffs. Also if they resign malone thats another guy then they have brian grant cant take over a game offensivly, but can on the boards at times.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Pure Skillz:</div><div class="quote_post">Actually Caron Butler is very capable of taking over a game like he showed in his rookie season and last year when he was healthy. Also Rush can get hot and have a great outting. Divac can control a game with his tempo of posting up and making a sweet pass. Marion may be traded and probably has been specualted as leaving the suns after the olympics in a trade for a big man. So that evens it out to 4-3 in favor of the suns. Then the lakers have atkins who can basically do what JJ does and some times get hot like he did with the celtics in the playoffs. Also if they resign malone thats another guy then they have brian grant cant take over a game offensivly, but can on the boards at times.</div> If Marion Gets traded for a big, than that'll benefit JJ and Q, giving them more scoring oppurtunities. Atkins is not a great comparasion to JJ. Rush has not shown consisntency in his game yet to convince me that he can take over a game. Vlade cannot take over a game, plain and simple Malone won't be a big impact player next year(compared to the Suns 5), like how he wasn't this year. Grant will have to be huge on the boards this year to be an true impact player on how the game is play versus the Lakers.
Pure Skillz. No Skillz. JJ compared to Atkins? Whoa! I'm not gonna even compare on this one. Rush is a great 3 point shooter and helped the Lakers greatly in getting as far as they dide but he is the equivilant of a Casey J. Divac? He can take over a game? He is a servicable big that can pass well and get the team going but in no way can he take over a game. The Suns have 5 legit guys and I'll give the Lakers 3 with Kobe counting as 1 1/2, Odom as 1, and Butler as 1/2 (just for kicks and grins). The Lakers are the ones with problems with their depth, they are very slim especially in the frontcourt in terms of depth. Anything is possible, either team could make a run at the division but if I had to pick a team between the Suns and Lakers it would be the Suns.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting emannen:</div><div class="quote_post">Pure Skillz. No Skillz. JJ compared to Atkins? Whoa! I'm not gonna even compare on this one. Rush is a great 3 point shooter and helped the Lakers greatly in getting as far as they dide but he is the equivilant of a Casey J. Divac? He can take over a game? He is a servicable big that can pass well and get the team going but in no way can he take over a game. The Suns have 5 legit guys and I'll give the Lakers 3 with Kobe counting as 1 1/2, Odom as 1, and Butler as 1/2 (just for kicks and grins). The Lakers are the ones with problems with their depth, they are very slim especially in the frontcourt in terms of depth. Anything is possible, either team could make a run at the division but if I had to pick a team between the Suns and Lakers it would be the Suns.</div> Ok one how you gona coach for Odam as 1 and butler one and a half when they were on the same team last year and Odam scored more points and knotched a triple double when Butler didnt? Rush is much more thans casey jacobson rush has shown much more potential and has had much ebtter games than jackobson has. Not to mention he is not on the trading block. Akins and JJ are basically the same types of player neither shoots well JJ shoots 43 and Atkins 40. Then JJ averages twice as many points as atkins averages 8, but JJ 16. Yet atkins really picked up his scoring when he went to boston. He provides more leadership than JJ does and was a big part in boston even making it to the playoffs. Then when they got there he was one of the only guys that performed. Atkins is a better shoote rthan joe is from three poitn range. As well as a better free throw shooter not by much, but still better. Obviously JJ is the better player, but they are both the same type of players. Then the lakers got that rookie dude who can match leandreo probably. As well as the fact that they may still resign Malone. The lakers have many better players than the suns overall.
I am a huge Suns fan as you guys will soon find out. I don't think they will win the division. It's extremely possible they will make the playoffs as a top 6 seed. They are improving at depth and now need a solid center. After that piece is in place, watch out.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting emannen:</div><div class="quote_post">If I am not mistaken it was the bench and the overall depth of the Lakers that was a weakness not only in the regular season but the playoffs and finals as well. How did the Lakers add players to the Shaq and Kobe dynasty. Also I'm wondering why you think that the fact that no Suns players have been to the Finals means something. Had any of the Pistons's players been to the Finals except L. Hunter (not a major piece of the team)? I don't think so! In the long run these reasons you have stated might impact a teams chances on reaching the Finals slightly. In this arguement though it makes you sound like a man who knows or cares little about Basketball and what teams with great talent (Suns) can do. Just my opinion.</div> Most Pistons players may not have been to the finals before, but Larry Brown had . That is just as important if not more. Also, Sheed had three years worth of playoff experience vs the Lakers. You really dont understand how the Lakers added players to the dynasty? They added GP and Malone. Those two ultimately ruined the playoff run, because Malone was injured and GP didn't show up. Lack of bench depth had nothing to do with it. In fact the Lakers recieved more help from their bench than they had in previous years. -Remember Kareem Rush going 6/7 from three in gm 7 vs the Wolves? - Luke Walton's 8 assists vs the Pistons? The only player that they lost was Horry, but they got increased production from basically everyone else. And they still had Fisher off the bench. How can you say that I "know little about basketball"? What of value have you said so far? Stop making silly, irrelevant excuses. The Suns will not make the finals. Not only due to lack of experience, but also lack of talent, lack of a big man, and lack of chemistry.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Pure Skillz:</div><div class="quote_post">Ok one how you gona coach for Odam as 1 and butler one and a half when they were on the same team last year and Odam scored more points and knotched a triple double when Butler didnt? Rush is much more thans casey jacobson rush has shown much more potential and has had much ebtter games than jackobson has. Not to mention he is not on the trading block. Akins and JJ are basically the same types of player neither shoots well JJ shoots 43 and Atkins 40. Then JJ averages twice as many points as atkins averages 8, but JJ 16. Yet atkins really picked up his scoring when he went to boston. He provides more leadership than JJ does and was a big part in boston even making it to the playoffs. Then when they got there he was one of the only guys that performed. Atkins is a better shoote rthan joe is from three poitn range. As well as a better free throw shooter not by much, but still better. Obviously JJ is the better player, but they are both the same type of players. Then the lakers got that rookie dude who can match leandreo probably. As well as the fact that they may still resign Malone. The lakers have many better players than the suns overall.</div> I am actually saying that Odom is a better player then Caron if you read the post clearly. How has Rush shown so much more potential then Casey J. The stats do not lie. These guys are very similar players. Casey J. YEAR G GS MIN FG FG% 3P 3P% FT FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS 2003-2004 78 13 23.4 1.9-4.6 .417 1.0-2.3 .417 1.2-1.4 .820 0.62 0.1 0.9 1.8 0.5 2.0 2.6 1.3 6.0 Rush YEAR G GS MIN FG FG% 3P 3P% FT FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS 2003-2004 72 15 17.3 2.6-6.0 .440 0.7-1.9 .348 0.4-0.7 .596 0.46 0.3 0.7 1.5 0.3 1.1 1.3 0.8 6.4 The Lakers rookie is also a project. A guy whi is expected to be good in 2-3 years so I don't see him matching Barbosa next year. Also if the Lakers get Malone we will still be better then you 3/5 positions. Nash beats whomever is at point, Marion beats Odom (stats), Amare beats Malone. Also the Suns are going to get at least one more center. They are looking for another big man, and whoever it is they cannot be that much worse then Divac. The Suns are a team that is on the rise. You will see this year. Anything is possible in the NBA.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jurassic:</div><div class="quote_post">Most Pistons players may not have been to the finals before, but Larry Brown had . That is just as important if not more. Also, Sheed had three years worth of playoff experience vs the Lakers. You really dont understand how the Lakers added players to the dynasty? They added GP and Malone. Those two ultimately ruined the playoff run, because Malone was injured and GP didn't show up. Lack of bench depth had nothing to do with it. In fact the Lakers recieved more help from their bench than they had in previous years. -Remember Kareem Rush going 6/7 from three in gm 7 vs the Wolves? - Luke Walton's 8 assists vs the Pistons? The only player that they lost was Horry, but they got increased production from basically everyone else. And they still had Fisher off the bench. How can you say that I "know little about basketball"? What of value have you said so far? Stop making silly, irrelevant excuses. The Suns will not make the finals. Not only due to lack of experience, but also lack of talent, lack of a big man, and lack of chemistry.</div> Bench depth was obviously a big problem in the Finals for the Lakers. Their frontcourt was in need of another big. As a matter a fact I remember Bill Walton saying hoe ravaged the Laker froncourt really was because Grant, and Malone were hurt. They had Slava, and Cooke who are liabilities no matter who you play. They had no depth at the 3,4,5 positions and yes it was a big part of why they lost. I would say Payton played very bad aganist the Pistons. Malone though played better then any PF the Lakers had in any other years in the Finals. Payton also in no means cost the Lakers a chance at a ring. They lost to a better team with more chemistry, dpeth, and hunger. I did'nt make any excuses, I voiced my opinion. That opinion is that the Suns are better then the Lakers. I never said that the Suns were going to the Finals, I never said they were going to win the Western COnference. I just said I thought they had a chance to do so. Also why are the Suns such a bad team. I'd like you to voice your opinion. I will then follow up to your post explaining why the Suns are going to be a good team. The Suns also are going to eather trade for a 5 or sign one in free-agency so. Though I would add that before you said the Suns had no Center. Please respond.
Ok first of all, everything that you said was obvious. Yes, GP played crappy against the Pistons, no sh!t. Did the Lakers lack Depth? Not any more so than they did in previous years, so what's your point? The Suns will be a good team. The Warriors were a good team last year. So were the Jazz and Blazers. Look what happened to them. The Suns will not be better than the Lakers. I wish that they would be, because I hate the Lakers, but I'm also a realist. The Lakers have 3 players that were leaders for their teams last year; Kobe, Lamar, and Vlade. The first two were the best players on their team. Also, you cant start assuming that the Suns will add a center. ANYTHING can happen in the trading market. Dont make assumptions based on a roster that doesn't exist yet. Just imagine if Dallas fans had run around saying that the Mavs would get a ring this year because they would have Shaq? Those fans would feel pretty stupid right now.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jurassic:</div><div class="quote_post">Ok first of all, everything that you said was obvious. Yes, GP played crappy against the Pistons, no sh!t. Did the Lakers lack Depth? Not any more so than they did in previous years, so what's your point? The Suns will be a good team. The Warriors were a good team last year. So were the Jazz and Blazers. Look what happened to them. The Suns will not be better than the Lakers. I wish that they would be, because I hate the Lakers, but I'm also a realist. The Lakers have 3 players that were leaders for their teams last year; Kobe, Lamar, and Vlade. The first two were the best players on their team. Also, you cant start assuming that the Suns will add a center. ANYTHING can happen in the trading market. Dont make assumptions based on a roster that doesn't exist yet. Just imagine if Dallas fans had run around saying that the Mavs would get a ring this year because they would have Shaq? Those fans would feel pretty stupid right now.</div> Wasen't it you in your previous post that said the reason the Lakers lost was because of Payton. I just said GP played bad but he was not the reason that the Lakers lost it was depth. No the Lakers were not as deep in terms of depth as they were when they won 3 rings, especially in the frontcourt. Okay. You say the Lakers have three guys now who led there respective teams. I don't agree but I will act like I do. First of all the Suns are better at the SF position then the Lakers (Marion:Odom). Divac led the Kings last year? He is onlt capable of playing 20-25 minutes max. He is a great passer and team guy. His skills have diminished greatly though. You can't argur Kobe, he is a top 5 player in the league. When it comes down to it though the Suns have better players overall and the Lakers are questionable at positions like PG and PF while the Suns are questionable at the 5. And my assumption with the Center is most likely going to happen. The Mavs getting Shaq was a rumor that many thought was not going to happen. I also did not say they would trade for a Center. They are still working free-agents out and looking at many scenerios. Bryan Colangelo did not say the Suns were not done looking for players for nothing. Please also give me something factual to explain how you know sooo much about the Suns. Obviousy you do not. Also please do not compare the Suns to the Warriors or Blazers, they are not in the Suns league. Many posters can tell you that. My opinions.
In the future use paragraphs, or I will take your posts less seriously than I already do. I never said that GP's addition is why they lost depth, or that his play is why they lost the championship. Please show me where I said that. Please explain to me how Marion is better than Odom? Marion had a couple more points and maybe 1 more steal. But Odom had more assists and boards. You never really proved that Odom wasn't the Leader for his team, so feel free to go ahead and do that. The Lakers also have Rudy T, that is something that people continue to overlook. Vlade was the emotional leader for the Kings, who else would you argue was? You are right, the Blazers and Warriors are not in the Suns league. They are both better teams.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jurassic:</div><div class="quote_post">In the future use paragraphs, or I will take your posts less seriously than I already do. I never said that GP's addition is why they lost depth, or that his play is why they lost the championship. Please show me where I said that. Please explain to me how Marion is better than Odom? Marion had a couple more points and maybe 1 more steal. But Odom had more assists and boards. You never really proved that Odom wasn't the Leader for his team, so feel free to go ahead and do that. The Lakers also have Rudy T, that is something that people continue to overlook. Vlade was the emotional leader for the Kings, who else would you argue was? You are right, the Blazers and Warriors are not in the Suns league. They are both better teams.</div> Let me clarify. I said that the main reason the Lakers lost was not all Payton BUT it was depth. Also some reasons why Marion is better then Odom Marion: YEAR G GS MIN FG FG% 3P 3P% FT FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS 2003-2004 79 79 40.7 7.5-17.0 .440 1.1-3.4 .340 2.9-3.4 .851 2.11 1.3 2.0 2.6 2.7 6.6 9.3 2.7 19.0 Odom: YEAR G GS MIN FG FG% 3P 3P% FT FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS 2003-2004 80 80 37.5 6.1-14.1 .430 0.8-2.6 .298 4.3-5.7 .742 1.06 0.9 3.0 3.4 2.0 7.7 9.7 4.1 17.1 Marion last year had better: ppg, bpg, spg, mpg, fg %, ft%, 3P%. Odom has more rpg, apg, tunrovers, and fouls. Overall Marion's a better player. Also Marion is a more committed player to his team. How many games has Odom missed because of suspensions? How many times has he been arrested? He had a great year last year, Matrix had a better one. Now why do you think the Kings let Vlade go this year? They realize he is an aging player on a team that has already aged enough. You can play the emotional leader card. But this is the NBA and why do you want emotional leaders? You want guys that can play, somone that can make your team dramatically better. With the addition of Vlade the Lakers definetly did not do that. Yes Rudy T is a great coach, probably better then D'aontoni but you must first have the players, and I beleive, although the Lakers have good players that the Suns have better ones. I haven't heard you explain yet though why the Suns are such a bad team. Please I don't mean to offend you I just think you are incorrect. And I really do not understand how the Suns are worse then the Blazers or Warriors. Please respond.
Ok listen, first off I do not think that the Suns are bad team, just not better than the Lakers. The Kings let Vlade go, because they cant afford to pay him what he wanted. Emotional leaders are very important, why do you think that the 6ers usually make the playoffs despite a crappy team? I would really give Marion an advantage in the fg category, he only shot 1% better. As far as Blazers compared to Suns, just look at the teams. Zach Randolph is better than any player on either team. Miles and Q-rick are basically the same player, except Q shoots more. Nash is better than Mouse, but the Suns dont have anyone like NVE coming off the bench. Amare is your best shot blocker (weak), while the Blazers have Ratiliff. Both teams have crappy sgs. Q-Rich is a less effective version of AI. He broke out this year but shot under 40%. Also, Nash does not have as many runners with him as he did in Dallas. Fewew jump shooters as well. The Suns' style of play is not going to work for Nash, and he is the most important player on their team. I'm getting lazy, and tired of arguing this. But I dont think that even the Suns themselves think they will finish ahead of LA.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jurassic:</div><div class="quote_post">Ok listen, first off I do not think that the Suns are bad team, just not better than the Lakers. The Kings let Vlade go, because they cant afford to pay him what he wanted. Emotional leaders are very important, why do you think that the 6ers usually make the playoffs despite a crappy team? I would really give Marion an advantage in the fg category, he only shot 1% better. As far as Blazers compared to Suns, just look at the teams. Zach Randolph is better than any player on either team. Miles and Q-rick are basically the same player, except Q shoots more. Nash is better than Mouse, but the Suns dont have anyone like NVE coming off the bench. Amare is your best shot blocker (weak), while the Blazers have Ratiliff. Both teams have crappy sgs. Q-Rich is a less effective version of AI. He broke out this year but shot under 40%. Also, Nash does not have as many runners with him as he did in Dallas. Fewew jump shooters as well. The Suns' style of play is not going to work for Nash, and he is the most important player on their team. I'm getting lazy, and tired of arguing this. But I dont think that even the Suns themselves think they will finish ahead of LA.</div> Yes if you are talking about barley being beat in a statistical category O dom barely has Matrix beat on the boards. But it really does not matter that much. Also I think the 76ers are a crappy team and the reason I think they make the playoffs is because they are in the East. Many playoff teams in the East are crappy. Also Amare and Randolph have very similar numbers, also for career averages Amare has better stats. PG the Suns have the advantage over the Blazers. THE SUNS HAVE NO SG!!! Please another person with NBA smarts post here. The Suns have Joe Johnson, you know him?! He is one of the budding stars in the league. Also Q plays the 2 no slouch either. Marion KILLS Miles no question there. Zach R. might have a slight advantage over Amare and the Blazers have a definite advantage at the 5. Also who is the Lakers best shot blocker, who is the Kings, who is the ______ (fill in the blank) . How does Amare being the leading shot blocker make anything weak. He's a great player! Also you stated the Suns are not a running team. Completly wrong there.! Martrix, Q, JJ, Nash, Amare, all run the break very, very, well. THey have enough jump shooters to be effective (JJ, Q, Nash, Casey, Zarko, Barbosa). I'm getting tired of posting as well. Your last post just ruined this arguement. You've proved to me what little you know about the Suns. NO SG (reminder JJ)?!?! Ha. It was an intelligent conversation up until this point. What are other posters comments here?
