Hey Mavs Fans, and everyone else, As I sit here waiting to see what will happen with the next Mavs trade and trying to convince myself that the Mavs aren't doomed , I'm sniffing around on NBA.COM and came across a couple items to give the Mavs Fan a little hope. I've always considered Dirk to be a top 10 player, but not top 5. But wait, check this out. Every year his playoff numbers improve. These are his career playoff stats: 25.6P/11R/2.05B shooting 42% from the floor and 3 pt range. Last year, he shot 46% on 3s and averaged 2.60 Blocks! I compared him to other players and found Shaq, Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan and Dirk in a category all by themself. I acknowledge the greatness of players like Kobe who play a different spot. (I'm leaving Karl Malone out, who has similar numbers but....) So I'm going out on a limb and saying that these 5 guys ( Shaq, Duncan, Garnett, Dirk, Kobe) are the top five players in the NBA based on playoff performances (which is really what counts, right). So what do you think? Shouldn't Dirk be considered a top 5 player? Building around the 25 year old seven footer makes sense to this Mavs fan. I'm curious what Mavs and NBA fans think. Every great player needs someone to compliment him. Shaq had his Kobe. MJ had Pippen. Duncan had Robinson. It's an NBA formula that wins the championship 90% of the time. Check out Marquis Daniels stats for the last 9 games of last year (5 were playoff games) after Nelson dumped Walker and went to Marquis as the playmaker: 20P/8R/5A/3S shooting 49% from the field. Not bad for a 23 year old kid that wasn't drafted. Personally, I think Daniels can average these number for an entire season. We have to wait and see, but these number compare favorably to Carmelo and LeBron. So the question is, do you think Marquis can be the number 2 guy for the Mavs and can he develop into a top 20 or better player in this league?
Wow thats nice. I see Dirk as a top 5 player now that you compare his stats to shaq, TD, KG, and kobe. I didnt know they were all so similiar. I think he should be considered a top 5 player and would be smart to build a team around him. Yes I think Marquis Daniels can be the number 2 guy for the Mavs. Im not sure if he can develop into a 20 or better player yet until this season when he will start and get more playtime.
I definitely wouldn't call Dirk a top 5 player. You look at his playoff stats, but keep in mind he only played 5 games against a bad defensive team last post-season. Yes that's only one occasion, but it should be considered. Also, he had one of the best passers in the league, Steve Nash, to help him. And while you're right about the playoffs being where it counts, players like Elton Brand are better than Dirk, but stuck on a non-playoff team. Anyway, my top 5 would be Garnett, Yao, Duncan, Brand, Kobe. For Daniels, he's a great player, but it will take him a while to develop into a top 20. Like I said before, he mainly needs to work on his passing. Will he be Dirk's number 2 man? Well, I wouldn't say so, I'd say all of the Mavs young players, Daniels, Howard, Harris, Podkolzine, Mbenga, have tons of potential and could make the Mavs a championship-calibur team in 4 years or so.
Brand and Yao are definately not better than Dirk. Maybe on defense and in the post but otherwise they are not.
Yeh, I had looked up Yao and Brand, 17P/9R/1.8B and 19P/10R/2.6B. Nice players, both of them, but the numbers aren't in Dirk's league. Plus, Brand has never been in the playoffs and Yao dropped off considerably in his first playoff appearance. Dirk's game rises to elite level in the post-season. Sorry dude, nice try, but you gotta bring something stronger than that.
We got some smart and defensive Mavs fans in here. And I still see Dirk as a Top five Player unless you want to put T-mac ahead of him.
Nowitzki is not a top 5 player period. My top 5 would consist of Duncan, Garnett, Shaq, Kobe and T-Mac. These 5, if you've noticed, are all average defenders at worst, unlike Dirk, who is basically a non-factor on defense. Sure, he may have a nice little pull-up three, but that is basically it. Can he play well with his back to the basket? Can he defend a player like KG effectively? Most of all, can he lead his team to moderate success? Right now, I don't even consider Dirk the leader of the Mavericks, let alone a top 5 player.
Are you serious, he can play with his back to the basket. Anytime he is guarded by a smaller defender he posts up and shoots right over them and he is usually successful. And when a big man is guarding him he always uses his speed or does a pumpfake and is successful. He doesnt just have a pull up three he is one of the top 5 mid range shooters in the league. He has improved his defense every year and IMO he can guard KG effectively because when they play each other, its not like KG dominates offensively. Dirk is the leader of the Mavs and can lead them to moderate success.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He has improved his defense every year and IMO he can guard KG effectively because when they play each other, its not like KG dominates offensively.</div> I'm one of the biggest Dirk fans, and KG hater, but I dont even believe that. He's improved in his D but, KG usually will try to find others to score. But I know for sure, since everyone seems to believe it but, HE CANT GAURD DIRK!!!!! As for top 5, with T-mac it's hard to say, But I wouldnt consider anyone being better besides Duncan, KG, Shaq, Kobe, and T-mac. I can live with calling him the 6th.
Your right that he cant guard Dirk. I have not seen a center or power foward shut down dirk. If hes missing a lot of shots its because hes having an off game. Like in the olympics when USA played Germany. TD, Lamar Odom and Jefferson could not stop Dirk from Jaying them. And yea KG will find others to score but he himself would not be man handling Dirk on the offensive end. Yea and I can also agree with calling him the 6th. But you can still make an arguement for the 5th
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Sorry dude, nice try, but you gotta bring something stronger than that.</div> It's funny you say that when you post stats in only three columns and say nothing else except "nice try dude". First off, Yao is maybe the best center in the league and it's his second (third if you count 04-05) year in the league. It probably is wrong putting him on the top 5 now, but he's going to continue to improve his stats and will be no question a top 5 player. As for Brand, 1) he's never averaged below 10 rebounds, 1.6 blocks an 18 points a game. Never. 2) he's 3rd in the league in efficiency rating, behind only Duncan and Garnett. 3) he shoots nearly 50% from the field. 4) he averages more assists then Dirk, on a much worse team. 5) he's fourth in the league in free throws, showing he can attack and draw fould. 6) he's 3rd in offensive rebounds per game. 7) I could go on, but I'll stop here and leave you with this. He's on the Clippers. He doesn't have Steve Nash to give him open 3's. He has a team of ball-hogs (talented ball-hogs, but still...) and he still manages to keep great stats. And all that said, I like Dirk. He's a top 10 player, but not top 5.
Jamal, you are making some nice arguements for Brand. He's been damn solid. There are two ways to look at good guys on bad teams: 1) on a good team defenses have more people to guard, 2) someone has to do the scoring on a bad team. I think Brand is great and if you and I can arrange a trade to bring him to Dallas, let's do it, but you can't have Dirk!! If one were starting a franchise, Yao might be one of the two three guys you would want, based on his age and potential. He's not in Dirk's league at this point. TMac is great too. And Vince Carter has impressive numbers. Honestly, for 82 games Dirk is probably #6 or #7. Once post season starts, I think he's probably #3. He can dominate Garnet in the playoffs. Duncan and Shaq are probably the only two playoff performers that are more unstoppable.
I'd never take Tmac or Carter over Dirk. (And I live about an hour from American Airlines center, so technically I do have Dirk =P). For one the mavs have a huge logjam at SG/SF, including my favorite Mav, Michael Finley. But more importantly, Dirk can (and has) have a solid game and then hit a few threes in the fourth quarter that sparks the whole offense. Tmac shuts down in the fourth quarter and Vince, well, I dunno, I just think he's too used to being by himself, and the Mavs can certainly give him help. And, just wondering, what did you think of the possible Dirk-Shaq trade when it looked like it would happen?
That trade scared me. The beauty would be to have Shaq and Dirk together. I'm glad I didn't have to make that decision. Now that it has passed, I'm content to keep Dirk and move Shaq out of the West (giving a lot of Western teams hope). Mitch Kupcheck was not about to setup the Mavs to win the next three to five championships, as we would have with a lineup of Nash, Daniels, Fin, Dirk, Shaq. I don't blame Kupcheck for taking less in the deal, but not having to see Shaq beating his teams but four times a year. Hey, I think Fin-dog is one hell of an underrated player. I have compared him to Kobe and TMac in his ability to get his shot off any time he wants to, regardless of a double team. But man, it drives me nuts, I think he is one crappy defender. Do you think he can step up and be a leader on the defensive end? Do you think maybe he can play 30 minutes a game and give Howard/Stackhouse some time on the court, but during that 30 minutes, play defense like a guy of his athletic ability should be able to do? I wonder if playing 48 minutes a game a couple years ago taught him to coast. Oh yeh, one more word of hope for Mavs fans. Monday, I believe, the Mavs can trade Stackhouse and/or Laetner!
Yea finley is underrated. His defense terrible though. Most SGs would be able to get pass him and usually score because we have weak D in the paint. Maybe he lazy but I think his defence you be a lot better. If stackhouse and/or Laettner can be traded starting Monday. I cant wait till next week. There will be a lot of rumors
The interior defense does get criticized a lot, Dirk and Bradley in particular. There's a difference between just flat out stopping someone (like Taeshon Prince might do), and just slowing them down by a couple tenths of a second. A tenth of a second can allow a help defender to block a shot. I swear, Steve Nash and Michael Finley can't even slow a guy by a tenth of a second. I'm still very suspicious of the Don Nelson/Dell Harris defensive scheme. They are pretty good in the zone, I like watching them play zone, but Man-to-Man, they suck, and that has to be the primary defensive stance. Using the zone as a change of pace can be incredibly effective. Bring on the rumors, I will help Stack/Laet pack their bags (although I think Stackhouse could play an important role on this team, he isn't washed up).
A 3-2 zone with Harris, Finley/Daniels, and Howard on top with Dirk and Mbenga down low would be pretty awesome. I'm not afraid to call Howard one of the best perimeter defenders in the league, and Mbenga's low post seems pretty good too. I don't know much about Harris's passing, but that combination could most likely run a great fast break after defending. But, from what I've heard, Mbenga and Harris will most likely come off the bench behind Bradley and Terry. Since I've only seen a few Hawks games, I can't really judge Terry, but Bradley starting over anyone is a crime.
I dont see Dirk as a Top. The Top 5 are KG, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe and T-Mac. Dirk doesn't have great rebounding skills, he doesn't defend the players at his posistion well, and when you can't do those things, you're not a top 5 player.
