who is the best allround player/not including retired players

^ i never said that all u needed was heart to be complete. im saying that KG doesnt have the charisma(?) of Duncan to lead a team. Duncan plays with heart. if KG is the complete player then how come he never won a ring?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting yanix:</div><div class="quote_post">^ i never said that all u needed was heart to be complete. im saying that KG doesnt have the charisma(?) of Duncan to lead a team. Duncan plays with heart. if KG is the complete player then how come he never won a ring?</div>

if u wanna base this off rings and abilities to lead a team, then Shaq and Kobe are more complete than duncan. They're both one up on him, and three-peated their run at that. If KG is not a leader, then i dont kno why outspoken players like Cassell and Sprewell call it KG's team. Sam and Spree are straight shooters, they're not out there to blow smoke up anyone's @$$, so when they refer to the wolves as KG's team, and that he's the leader, its not so farfetched to believe them. He said he would close out the series against denver, and he did it by leading them to a victory. Ask the sacramento fan's what they think about KG's ability to lead a team to a victory in a crucial game. If you just start throwing stuff out there like "how come KG never won a ring", how come Duncan has never won a game 7, or even put his team in a position to play a game 7? KG has never had a TEAM like duncan... he may have had more talent than duncan has ever had this year, but duncan was always surrounded by solid teams (and by the result of this years olympic, and the way the 04 finals panned out) i think we all know having good teams is better than having loads of talent on a squad. Want proof? Duncan was surrounded by solid shooters in his first run to the title, and had a very smart PG (Elie, Elliot, Johnson), and had a huge presence to help him out on the inside (Robinson). In his second run, he was surrounded by a solid cast. Kerr was there for shooting, Jackson was very versatile and brought many intangibles on offense, Rose and Manu were huge contributors off the bench, and the presence of Robinson was huge as he was still a solid defender. Add a lockdown defender like bowen, and that team had success written all over them. Im not saying they coulda done it without duncan, cuz they couldnt have, but he's always had pieces around him for his championship runs. We're not talking about who is the bigger winner between the two, and we're not even talking about who is the better player for that matter, but we're talking about who is a more <u>COMPLETE PLAYER</u>, and there really is no more complete player than KG.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting jiggax23:</div><div class="quote_post">if u wanna base this off rings and abilities to lead a team, then Shaq and Kobe are more complete than duncan. They're both one up on him, and three-peated their run at that. If KG is not a leader, then i dont kno why outspoken players like Cassell and Sprewell call it KG's team. Sam and Spree are straight shooters, they're not out there to blow smoke up anyone's @$$, so when they refer to the wolves as KG's team, and that he's the leader, its not so farfetched to believe them. He said he would close out the series against denver, and he did it by leading them to a victory. Ask the sacramento fan's what they think about KG's ability to lead a team to a victory in a crucial game. If you just start throwing stuff out there like "how come KG never won a ring", how come Duncan has never won a game 7, or even put his team in a position to play a game 7? KG has never had a TEAM like duncan... he may have had more talent than duncan has ever had this year, but duncan was always surrounded by solid teams (and by the result of this years olympic, and the way the 04 finals panned out) i think we all know having good teams is better than having loads of talent on a squad. Want proof? Duncan was surrounded by solid shooters in his first run to the title, and had a very smart PG (Elie, Elliot, Johnson), and had a huge presence to help him out on the inside (Robinson). In his second run, he was surrounded by a solid cast. Kerr was there for shooting, Jackson was very versatile and brought many intangibles on offense, Rose and Manu were huge contributors off the bench, and the presence of Robinson was huge as he was still a solid defender. Add a lockdown defender like bowen, and that team had success written all over them. Im not saying they coulda done it without duncan, cuz they couldnt have, but he's always had pieces around him for his championship runs. We're not talking about who is the bigger winner between the two, and we're not even talking about who is the better player for that matter, but we're talking about who is a more <u>COMPLETE PLAYER</u>, and there really is no more complete player than KG.</div>
People need to watch 1 game. Just 1 game when KG plays and re-think.
KG is the best all around player period. Over the past 5 years, KG missed total of 3 games. Having Played for 9 years, he always has improved each year. People!! just watch 1 game.

 

It's absurd to say KG has no heart... remember against the Kings in the season he basically at Arco he buried a three pointer when noone else stepped up and the Wolves ended up winning... and in the playoffs against the Kings again when he made a three pointer (was it at Arco?) that broke the tie and the Wolves won again. You may have argued this a couple of years back when he kept passing the ball in the games' most crucial moments, but right now... no way baby... KG is taking them.

 

That's a tough question. By all-around, I assume you are talking about a player
who is excellent in every aspect of the game. Kevin Garnett comes to mind, of
all the big men, he can do the most. He's more versatile than Duncan.

Smaller guys like Kobe also should be considered, he can rebound, shoot, defend,
pass (if he wants to). So his all-around game is probably the best of any player
in the league.

But you do say "Best All-Around Player". So why wouldn't the best player in
the league be the best all-around player? If the best player in the league is so
dominant at one or two aspects of the game (like dunking and rebounding), that
no other player in the league can even slow him down, isn't he the best all-around
player? So, it's really an easy call for me...

SHAQ is the best all-around player.

 

"Jigga", you listenin'?

Complete Player: A player who does everything that his team asks of him and excels in other aspects of the game. Duncan can rebound, is much more physical, plays the post game only paralelled by Shaq, and is a more better shotblocker than Garnett. Garnett is superathletic, yes i know, it is an attribute that Duncan does not obtain, but athlticsm is not always the scope of answers to ones game. I believe KG can play the 3-5 position great and even the 2 spot situationally, but he cannot play the post as effectively as Duncan. Someone here (i'mnot so sure) said that he is much more athletic, athleticsm is a talent you recieve but that is not always the way to go. There have been disputes over who is better like Michael or Wilt (don't answer this), but you never hear anyone say" well michael is more athletic" who gives a damn if he's athletic? it's a more inferior quality compared to fundamentals and intangibles.

seriously Jigga, you make such long meaningless posts which can be summarized into 1 paragraph so your just wasting your time. You keep repeating the same thing over and over and almost all your posts. Don't worry, I have love for KG i respect his game and he is probably the best player right now, but he is not the most complete player.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">so you saying my opinion is biased is not a true statement at all.</div>
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<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He can do certain things better than KG, but KG still does all those things duncan does better effectively... and there are alot more things KG does more effectively than duncan, and things KG can do that Duncan cannot do</div>

then what's that?

 

rip hamilton is a good all round player the thing he can't do is post. he can shoot,dunk,rebound a little, dribble and play d

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting authentiq:</div><div class="quote_post">"Jigga", you listenin'?

Complete Player: A player who does everything that his team asks of him and excels in other aspects of the game. Duncan can rebound, is much more physical, plays the post game only paralelled by Shaq, and is a more better shotblocker than Garnett. Garnett is superathletic, yes i know, it is an attribute that Duncan does not obtain, but athlticsm is not always the scope of answers to ones game. I believe KG can play the 3-5 position great and even the 2 spot situationally, but he cannot play the post as effectively as Duncan. Someone here (i'mnot so sure) said that he is much more athletic, athleticsm is a talent you recieve but that is not always the way to go. There have been disputes over who is better like Michael or Wilt (don't answer this), but you never hear anyone say" well michael is more athletic" who gives a damn if he's athletic? it's a more inferior quality compared to fundamentals and intangibles.

seriously Jigga, you make such long meaningless posts which can be summarized into 1 paragraph so your just wasting your time. You keep repeating the same thing over and over and almost all your posts. Don't worry, I have love for KG i respect his game and he is probably the best player right now, but he is not the most complete player.

then what's that?</div>

again, you have nothing new to bring in to your argument, all you have been saying is duncan is a more complete PF/C, and i've haven't even disputed that. in case you haven't noticed, what we have here is 2 different definitions of what a complete player is... everyone else has seemed to caught on except you. the last 3 or 4 post of yours have been saying the same thing. you have not brought anything new to this discussion and u keep trying to get the same point across. im trying to explain to you why i think KG is a more complete player, and it just goes in one ear and out the other for you. so before you go accusing me of doing certain things, why dont u realize you are indeed doing the same thing and maybe even perhaps on a higher scale.

 

I am not accusing you of anything but with those few biased statements you put across, I cannot seem to undwerstand why you think KG is the most complete, do we need to make a chart to show you who is more complete? the definition you IMO give tome shows me that he is argueably the best and all-around player, not the most complete. I have caught on to everything you said, and i am hearing you very well, the fact of the matter is, KG is not the most complete, but to savor the moment, both players are great on their own rights, that must be something even you and I can agree on.

 

I'd pick KG over Duncan.

 

I think most of us can agree on this: Duncan is the more complete post player. But KG is a more all-around player because he can also play on the perimeter (a MUCH better perimeter defender and ballhandler).

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting authentiq:</div><div class="quote_post">I am not accusing you of anything but with those few biased statements you put across, I cannot seem to undwerstand why you think KG is the most complete, do we need to make a chart to show you who is more complete? the definition you IMO give tome shows me that he is argueably the best and all-around player, not the most complete. I have caught on to everything you said, and i am hearing you very well, the fact of the matter is, KG is not the most complete, but to savor the moment, both players are great on their own rights, that must be something even you and I can agree on.</div>

i dont think the statements i put out are all that bias, they may have a little bias to them, but i dont think that they're so biased that they're far from the truth. there may be certain things i've said that might be a little far fetched, but a few of the things you said are a tad out of line (not saying they're not true to a certain extent, but may be a little exaggerated), as is probably a few things i've said. if your definition of being a complete player is being able to do everything you're asked to do, then so be. i have a different definition, and in my definition, KG is the more complete player, whereas in your definition, duncan is the more complete player because even though he can't run the PG during stretches like KG, he is never asked to play PG during stretches, and same goes w/ perimeter defense on guards during certain possessions. If you wanna make a chart to see who is the more complete player of the two we can do that. im pretty sure garnett will have an edge in more categories than duncan. but again, im not sure what kinda chart you wanna make or have in mind. but explain what u mean by that, and we can see what the results of that would be.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting jiggax23:</div><div class="quote_post">i dont think the statements i put out are all that bias, they may have a little bias to them, but i dont think that they're so biased that they're far from the truth. there may be certain things i've said that might be a little far fetched, but a few of the things you said are a tad out of line (not saying they're not true to a certain extent, but may be a little exaggerated), as is probably a few things i've said. if your definition of being a complete player is being able to do everything you're asked to do, then so be. i have a different definition, and in my definition, KG is the more complete player, whereas in your definition, duncan is the more complete player because even though he can't run the PG during stretches like KG, he is never asked to play PG during stretches, and same goes w/ perimeter defense on guards during certain possessions. If you wanna make a chart to see who is the more complete player of the two we can do that. im pretty sure garnett will have an edge in more categories than duncan. but again, im not sure what kinda chart you wanna make or have in mind. but explain what u mean by that, and we can see what the results of that would be.</div>

How about this: Who has a more complete game: Michael Jordan in his prime or Kevin Garnett? Even though Garnett can play more positions, I'd say that Jordan has a more complete game because he excels at his position. He is as close to the perfect shooting guard as there ever was. Similarly, I think one can argue that Duncan has a more complete game then Garnett. Duncan is pretty close to the perfect power forward/center. More so than Garnett, in my opinion, even though Garnett can do other things more expected of a point guard or small forward.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">How about this: Who has a more complete game: Michael Jordan in his prime or Kevin Garnett? Even though Garnett can play more positions, I'd say that Jordan has a more complete game because he excels at his position. He is as close to the perfect shooting guard as there ever was. Similarly, I think one can argue that Duncan has a more complete game then Garnett. Duncan is pretty close to the perfect power forward/center. More so than Garnett, in my opinion, even though Garnett can do other things more expected of a point guard or small forward.</div>

i would say KG has more of a complete game than MJ in his prime, and this is coming from a guy who worships jordan. But jordan is the better player. Jordan can't defend the paint effectively, but then again, he isn't asked to do it, but even if he were asked to do it, he wouldn't be able to do it effectively. Theres pretty much nothing KG can't do effectively. Yea, there are people out there who do things better than him, but they all have an empty spot in their game somewhere... KG doesn't.

Again, your interpretation of "complete" is different than mines and others. You seem to have the same definition as authentiq. Whereas me and a few other have a different look on it... nothing wrong w/ either view, just depends on how each individual wants to look at it

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">i dont think the statements i put out are all that bias, they may have a little bias to them, but i dont think that they're so biased that they're far from the truth. there may be certain things i've said that might be a little far fetched, but a few of the things you said are a tad out of line (not saying they're not true to a certain extent, but may be a little exaggerated), as is probably a few things i've said.</div>
fair enough. but i never said you were really biased, I just said some of your statements were. I also did say that he is the best-all around player and possibly the best player in the league along with Kobe.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If you wanna make a chart to see who is the more complete player of the two we can do that. im pretty sure garnett will have an edge in more categories than duncan. but again, im not sure what kinda chart you wanna make or have in mind. but explain what u mean by that, and we can see what the results of that would be.</div>

well, unfortunately, our discussion is not heated enough/ worth making a long chart, not yet anyways