Trade Gary Contest <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Let's have some fun: Go to the RealGM trade checker and think up the best (reasonable) trades sending Gary Payton out of town. Post them here for bragging rights. There are no cash prizes, just the praise and admiration of your peers and 15 minutes of fame. Some rules/guidelines: 1. Trades should be relatively even. Draft picks and cash can be used as incentive. These trades will be graded on reasonableness - so "Waltah for Yao" trades are out of the question. 2. Team we trade with should have a need for Gary. This could mean "needs a PG for a title run." Example: Heat, Rockets, Pacers, Mavericks, etc. Or it could mean: "wants to clear cap space." Example: Clips. Bonus points for getting him closer to home in Cali. 3. Winner will be chosen by hagrid and I. We both gladly accept bribes. 4. Post your entries using the Comments link. Multiple entries are welcome, but please limit to 3 per person. I'm still working on the details, but we'll announce the winner sometime next week. We may even give credit for "most-creative." I'll personally take the winning entry and email the Celtics, the Globe, the Herald with the idea (and of course post it on CelticsBlog.com). We'll do everything we can to put it in front of Danny's eyes short of slipping it under the door at the Fleet. If anyone actually predicts the trade before it happens, I'll hand over the keys for CelticsBlog.com for a day to that person (or I might quit altogether).</div> ______________________________________________ You can post your trade ideas here or on the blog. I believe we'll be collecting all entries on Monday, so Good luck! :thumbsup:
Toronto trades: PG Alvin Williams (8.8 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 4.0 apg in 30.9 minutes) Toronto receives: PG Gary Payton (14.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 5.5 apg in 34.5 minutes) Change in team outlook: +5.8 ppg, +1.5 rpg, and +1.5 apg. Boston trades: PG Gary Payton (14.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 5.5 apg in 34.5 minutes) Boston receives: PG Alvin Williams (8.8 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 4.0 apg in 56 games) Change in team outlook: -5.8 ppg, -1.5 rpg, and -1.5 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED Due to Toronto and Boston being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Toronto and Boston had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement
Indiana trades: PF Austin Croshere (5.0 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.7 apg in 13.7 minutes) PG Jamaal Tinsley (8.3 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 5.8 apg in 26.5 minutes) Indiana receives: SF Rick Fox (4.8 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 2.6 apg in 22.3 minutes) PG Gary Payton (14.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 5.5 apg in 34.5 minutes) Change in team outlook: +6.1 ppg, +1.1 rpg, and +1.6 apg. Boston trades: SF Rick Fox (4.8 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 2.6 apg in 22.3 minutes) PG Gary Payton (14.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 5.5 apg in 34.5 minutes) Boston receives: PF Austin Croshere (5.0 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.7 apg in 77 games) PG Jamaal Tinsley (8.3 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 5.8 apg in 52 games) Change in team outlook: -6.1 ppg, -1.1 rpg, and -1.6 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED Due to Indiana and Boston being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Indiana and Boston had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.
This competition is a very good idea. I've posted this deal on your site, and now I'm posting it here too. :thumbsup: Boston Receives: PG Speedy Claxton (10.6 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 4.5 apg in 26.6 minutes) Boston Trades: PG Gary Payton (14.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 5.5 apg in 34.5 minutes) First-Round Pick Received From Lakers Cash The Warriors recently signed Derek Fisher. Reuniting him with the guy he backed up in L.A. might light the competitive fire in him and make him challenge Payton for the starting spot. Payton gets to move closer to L.A., and the Celtics get a young albeit undersized point guard in Claxton who has shown glimpses of greatness.
Unlikely that the Clips would trade Brand away, but just a thought: L.A. Clippers trades: PF Elton Brand (20.0 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 3.3 apg in 38.8 minutes) L.A. Clippers receives: PG Gary Payton (14.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 5.5 apg in 34.5 minutes) SF Ricky Davis (14.4 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 3.3 apg in 31.3 minutes) Change in team outlook: +9.0 ppg, -1.6 rpg, and +5.5 apg. Boston trades: PG Gary Payton (14.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 5.5 apg in 34.5 minutes) SF Ricky Davis (14.4 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 3.3 apg in 31.3 minutes) Boston receives: PF Elton Brand (20.0 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 3.3 apg in 69 games) Change in team outlook: -9.0 ppg, +1.6 rpg, and -5.5 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED Due to L.A. Clippers and Boston being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. L.A. Clippers and Boston had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.
Atlanta desperately needs a good PG. Maybe Payton would be a good fit there. Atlanta trades: PF Chris Crawford (10.2 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 21.6 minutes) PG Tony Delk (6.0 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 0.9 apg in 15.4 minutes) Atlanta receives: PG Gary Payton (14.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 5.5 apg in 34.5 minutes) Change in team outlook: -1.6 ppg, -0.7 rpg, and +3.8 apg. Boston trades: PG Gary Payton (14.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 5.5 apg in 34.5 minutes) Boston receives: PF Chris Crawford (10.2 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 56 games) PG Tony Delk (6.0 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 0.9 apg in 33 games) Change in team outlook: +1.6 ppg, +0.7 rpg, and -3.8 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED Due to Boston being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Boston had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out unless trade exceptions were used for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Multiple entries are welcome, but please limit to 3 per person.</div>I think you're over the limit stalefish.
My first submission. ID: <font color="Red">1876547</font> Houston trades: SF Clarence Weatherspoon (5.0 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 0.6 apg in 16.7 minutes) PF Juwan Howard (17.0 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 2.0 apg in 35.5 minutes) PG Tyronn Lue (10.5 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 4.2 apg in 30.7 minutes) Boston trades: PG Gary Payton (14.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 5.5 apg in 34.5 minutes) SF Rick Fox (4.8 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 2.6 apg in 22.3 minutes) PF Walter McCarty (7.9 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 1.6 apg in 24.7 minutes) Here's why Houston does it: Houston needs a veteran PG for the playoff run. Payton wants to go to a contending team, Houston being one of the teams on his list. Houston is able to dump Weatherspoon's contract, and pick up a replacement for him at SF (if they even planned on having him in the rotation), who's a better player with more playoff experience (Fox). They also are trading Howard, who they can replace with McCarty at PF. McCarty and Maurice Taylor put up similar numbers in starting roles last year (13-4-2 for Taylor, 11-5-2 for McCarty), and the time split between them would not be horribly wasted. They don't need much scoring from the PF slot (Cato only gave them 6 ppg a game last year). They do lose some rebounding and defense, but it's worth it to them to acquire their PG. Both McCarty and Fox can shoot the ball, allowing JVG to put wrinkles in the offense for kick outs from McGrady penetration, or a Yao post up. And a Payton/Yao pick and roll would be a nice thing to see, and put Payton back in his element. Why Boston does it: Payton doesn't want to be in town, and Houston is one of the teams on his list. Boston grabs Juwan Howard, the 31 year old 17-7 a game SF/PF. He's still got something left in his tank, and brings a more veteran presence to the young Boston squad, whos oldest contributing player is Mark Blount (28). He joins a fairly crowded front court, admittedly, but it leaves the possibility of shipping him elsewhere in a 1-for-1 deal (perhaps to Cleveland for Eric Snow?) if need be, although keeping him isn't a horrible proposition. Tyronne Lue is a viable PG - perhaps not your first choice, but he's better than a no-show Payton. The main idea here is in this trade, you're getting some pretty decent players for Payton, who won't even show up. And if you can swing that Snow trade (Cleveland would run with a lineup of McInnis, LeBron, Gooden, Howard, Ilgauskas, not too shabby), Snow would be the perfect point. Perhaps I'll submit more later, but this is quite hard. Great contest. I'd like to know people's opinions. <font color="Red">NOTE</font>: Of course this trade presumes that they wait out the trade restrictions on Howard, Lue, Payton and Fox.
As a Houston fan, I'd like to point out a few loopholes in your idea. First off, Clarence Weatherspoon is not a small forward. Sure, he has the size of a small forward, but his size and strength place him at power forward and even center. Also, I don't really think the Rockets would trade away Howard and get McCarty in return. Last year, the lack of a consistent low-post scorer in the low post proved one of our biggest downfalls, and that is why Howard is so valuable to us. He can score down low, and although he isn't as good a defender as Cato, he does an ample job. If we get McCarty to start and have Taylor backing him up, the Rockets would seriously be weak on defense. Houston doesn't need Fox also; with Jackson starting and Nachbar backing him up. Payton going to the Rockets could happen, but with the Rockets just acquiring Ward and Sura, getting Payton to start over them would be a slap in the face. I'm not saying that your deal won't work, but it's just my 2 cents.
I'm a Wizards fan, but Houston was always my second favorite team because of Francis, so I do know about them. Now, to respond to your points: First off, Sura is much more of a SG than a PG at all, so that's not a problem. Secondly, Weatherspoon's presence in the trade is merely for the Rockets to dump his contract. He is an SF/PF, by the way, could never play center, and I just used the positions from the RealGM trade checker. Third, I don't think, at all, that the "lack of low post scoring" was a problem. They matched up against the Lakers. Yao's 10 points in games 1 and 5 were a problem, but that wouldn't have been helped by Cato scoring more than his 6 and 5, respectively. They needed Yao to step up bigger. And the overall reason they lost, was more because of Francis and Mobley's ball domination, and the lack of a true PG. Francis made many questionable decisions during the series, and proved himself to be not JVG's type of PG. That was much more the cause of the loss, than a lack of low post scoring from the PF spot. I admit starting Mo Taylor at the PF might hurt a bit on defense, but not that much (Howard's never been known for his outstanding defense, so it's not that much of a downgrade), and they will have to give up something to get a solid PG. I think this trade is worth it for the Rockets. As to Fox, he could be a very good backup for Jim Jackson. You really think Nachbar and his 36% FG% will be able to add anything at all in the playoffs?
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">First off, Sura is much more of a SG than a PG at all, so that's not a problem.</div>I'm aware of that, but I'm sure that the Rockets signed him with the intent of playing him as a point guard. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Secondly, Weatherspoon's presence in the trade is merely for the Rockets to dump his contract. He is an SF/PF, by the way, could never play center, and I just used the positions from the RealGM trade checker.</div>He may be listed as a SF, but the truth is that he isn't a SF. At 270 pounds, he is too slow to guard any small forward and at this stage of his career, Weatherspoon has been made into a low-post player rather than a perimeter shooter, which he never was anyways. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Third, I don't think, at all, that the "lack of low post scoring" was a problem. They matched up against the Lakers. Yao's 10 points in games 1 and 5 were a problem, but that wouldn't have been helped by Cato scoring more than his 6 and 5, respectively. They needed Yao to step up bigger. And the overall reason they lost, was more because of Francis and Mobley's ball domination, and the lack of a true PG. Francis made many questionable decisions during the series, and proved himself to be not JVG's type of PG. That was much more the cause of the loss, than a lack of low post scoring from the PF spot. I admit starting Mo Taylor at the PF might hurt a bit on defense, but not that much (Howard's never been known for his outstanding defense, so it's not that much of a downgrade), and they will have to give up something to get a solid PG. I think this trade is worth it for the Rockets.</div>You're on the point again, but Taylor will never start under Van Gundy because he can't play a lick of defense and is a bad rebounder. His only purpose on the team is to provide scoring off the pine. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">As to Fox, he could be a very good backup for Jim Jackson. You really think Nachbar and his 36% FG% will be able to add anything at all in the playoffs?</div>Nachbar has been on the team for two years. During that span, he has received virtually no PT. What we need Nachbar to be is the replacement for Jackson once he retires. Right now, we need to develop his game, and getting Rick Fox will only stunt his growth. This is the Celtics forum anyways, so let's stop the Rockets discussion and maybe bring this to the Rockets forum if you want to!
I might be wrong, but unless there is a loophole in the CBA that I don't know about, the only way Payton can be traded anytime soon is if it's a straight up one-for-one player. Trades involving any packages on either side (draft picks don't count), I'm pretty sure, would not be accepted by the league for something like 60 days, maybe longer. Correct me if I'm wrong. Also, while the trades to Toronto, Atlanta, etc. sound intersting, they would never work. Payton is refusing to play for the Celtics, so why would he agree to show up for those teams? He is saying that he would play for Clips, Houston, MN, and maybe Golden State. So, for submissions to be realistic, it would have to involve those teams. These two facts make a good Payton trade very difficult. Boston is at least two deep at every position now. However, our two point guards are yonger than any other position on the team. The young players everwhere else on the roster are playing behind vets, so they have mentors and less pressure. West is a rookie, and Banks cleary isn't ready to run a team full time. What we need, perhaps the only thing we really need, is someone to mentor them. It doesn't make sense simply to look for a talent that we can get back. That means that we have to find a veteran point guard from one of those four teams. Not an easy task. The ONLY trade I see even as a remote possibility, as Trip said, would be a Payton-Speedy Claxton trade. Payton would accept a trade back home, their contracts match. Claxton would be a great mentor, a point who's not too flashy and knows his role. Capable of starting, but not by any means the long term point guard of the future. His contract has 2 years left including this coming year, which may be just the right amount of time for him to be around our young PGs. The only issue I see is, again quoting Trip, if Chris Mullen has reservations about having Payton and Fish on the same team. Basically, Payton's complaining has put the Cs in a bad spot. It doesn't make sense for the Cs to do a trade for someone other than a PG, becuase we don't need one. I still think the best scenario for Boston is if Doc could convince him to play in Boston for a year.
BTW, Trip's trade also had the conditional 1st round pick from the Lakers going to GS. That pick could turn out to be pure gold in a few years, what with Kupchak running the team. I wouldn't include it in my trade. Perhaps include cash and a 2nd rounder in '06 (05 was sent to LA) if GS won't accept the trade just for Payton.
The trades we submitted were on the assumption that the Celts would wait 60 days before making the trade. The problem with trading Payton straight up for a PG is that who would trade a good young PG for Payton, unless they need a vetaran PG for the playoff race? That, and the fact that Fisher was signed as a PG, would probably rule out any trade to GS. Either Boston loses big on a trade of Payton, just shipping him out to get SOMETHING in return, or they may possible be able to make a deal where they lose just a little, and trade him to a contender. When trying to come up with my proposed trade I saw there were VERY little options. You'd have to look for a PG, but who would swap young PG for Payton with 1 year left?
Thanks to everyone who has responded so far. Stalefish: the limit is 3 ideas, so please choose your 3 best and delete the others please. Thanks.
Update: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> <u>Contest Deadline </u> The entries are flooding in, so I'm going to have to cap this off sometime. Monday at noon will be the cut-off. No entries after that time will be accepted. I think I've seen at least one duplicate trade, so of course in cases like that I'll go with the one who posted it first. In the early lead for "most lopsided" deal has to be Nowitzki for GP and Raef. Wishful thinking indeed!</div>
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting celtfan:</div><div class="quote_post">BTW, Trip's trade also had the conditional 1st round pick from the Lakers going to GS. That pick could turn out to be pure gold in a few years, what with Kupchak running the team. I wouldn't include it in my trade. Perhaps include cash and a 2nd rounder in '06 (05 was sent to LA) if GS won't accept the trade just for Payton.</div> That Lakers pick will be out of the lottery for a few years at least. I don't consider Kupchak's moves bad. They're real smart IMO. They traded away Payton for Atkins and Mihm, which allows Sasha Vujacic to play some PG, so that's smart. The Odom trade was even better. They got 2 young up-and-comers and a starter for a center on the way down and who had grudges with their superstar. He has made the best of the situation so far.
Phoenix trades: PG Howard Eisley (6.9 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 4.1 apg in 21.8 minutes) * SF Shawn Marion (19.0 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 2.7 apg in 40.7 minutes) Phoenix receives: C Raef LaFrentz (7.8 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 1.4 apg in 19.3 minutes) * SF Ricky Davis (14.4 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 3.3 apg in 31.3 minutes) * PG Gary Payton (14.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 5.5 apg in 34.5 minutes) Change in team outlook: +10.9 ppg, +2.2 rpg, and +3.4 apg. Boston trades: C Raef LaFrentz (7.8 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 1.4 apg in 19.3 minutes) * SF Ricky Davis (14.4 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 3.3 apg in 31.3 minutes) * PG Gary Payton (14.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 5.5 apg in 34.5 minutes) Boston receives: PG Howard Eisley (6.9 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 4.1 apg in 67 games) * SF Shawn Marion (19.0 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 2.7 apg in 79 games) Change in team outlook: -10.9 ppg, -2.2 rpg, and -3.4 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED Due to Phoenix and Boston being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Phoenix and Boston had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.
Minnesota trades: PF Mark Madsen (3.6 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 0.4 apg in 17.3 minutes) * SG Wally Szczerbiak (10.2 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 1.2 apg in 22.2 minutes) Minnesota receives: PG Gary Payton (14.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 5.5 apg in 34.5 minutes) * C Michael Stewart (0.5 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 0.0 apg in 5.9 minutes) Change in team outlook: +1.3 ppg, -1.5 rpg, and +3.9 apg. Boston trades: PG Gary Payton (14.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 5.5 apg in 34.5 minutes) * C Michael Stewart (0.5 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 0.0 apg in 5.9 minutes) Boston receives: PF Mark Madsen (3.6 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 0.4 apg in 72 games) * SG Wally Szczerbiak (10.2 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 1.2 apg in 28 games) Change in team outlook: -1.3 ppg, +1.5 rpg, and -3.9 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED Due to Minnesota and Boston being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Minnesota and Boston had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.
Memphis trades: PG Jason Williams (10.9 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 6.8 apg in 29.4 minutes) * C Lorenzen Wright (9.4 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 1.1 apg in 25.8 minutes) Memphis receives: C Raef LaFrentz (7.8 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 1.4 apg in 19.3 minutes) * PG Gary Payton (14.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 5.5 apg in 34.5 minutes) Change in team outlook: +2.1 ppg, +0.1 rpg, and -1.0 apg. Boston trades: C Raef LaFrentz (7.8 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 1.4 apg in 19.3 minutes) * PG Gary Payton (14.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 5.5 apg in 34.5 minutes) Boston receives: PG Jason Williams (10.9 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 6.8 apg in 72 games) * C Lorenzen Wright (9.4 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 1.1 apg in 65 games) Change in team outlook: -2.1 ppg, -0.1 rpg, and +1.0 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED Due to Memphis and Boston being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Memphis and Boston had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.
