its on the 76ers board, thought i'd start one here Keep: VC - i dont think i need to explain, key guy CB4 - Potential, probably a 15/10 guy in about 2 years. Maybe even a 20/10 guy. Rebounder, has a nice touch from mid-range, shot blocking, good work ethics. Skip - Good PG, once given playing time. Proved he can play more than just streetball last year w/ the Heat. Good 3pt shooter. Crowd loves him. Mo Pete - great off the bench. also a nice 3pt shooter, can slash to the hoop when needed. Can bring 10 - 15pts off the bench. Milt Palacio - was doing well when he got playing time. kinda faded away when Rose came along. No playing time = no production Get Out: Rafael Araujo - Big fat white kid who isnt gonna be any good. Lamond Murray - way past his prime, expendible if we have Mo Pete. Jalen Rose - not as young as he used to be...not as good as he used to be...can be good one game, and suck the next. Alvin Williams - As much as i love how he works so hard everygame, even when he is injured, i think he will work better somewhere else. He is more of a shoot first guy, and with all the scoring options in toronto, i dont think he is needed. would do well in a team in need of a scorer. he needs to take more shots, and he wont get them if he stays Marshall - kinda like rose, except he doesnt suck much. he just puts up like a 12/7 for a stretch of games, then suddenly a 30/12 night, then back to the 12/7.
KEEP CB4 - I love his length, shooting touch, patience on offence, rebounding, shot blocking, quickness at the 4 position, maturity...and he is only a 1 year player. Mo Pete - Defensive hustle. He MUST average at least one taken offensive charge per game. He can shoot from outside, though he needs to return to a more aggresive offensive...let's see some slashing boy! Your not a cockroach, GET OUT OF THAT CORNER ! Rafer - I love anyone who loves this team and city. He should have never left. His shot has developed, his assist to turnover ratio has improved. 2-3 years from now I might want him outta here but for now, KEEP Rafael Araujo - BIG BODY ! There are so few around. The kid has only been playing in N.A for a few years. I think that he does have potential. Besides, he is not sucking up much cap space....let's see what he is about 2 years from now. GET OUT VINCE - YAH, he is the most talented on this team, and YAH he sells tickets and is great for the community, and YAH he is truly AWESOME to watch.....but, He has come off of 3 really bad years, he is injury prone, he lack leadership, he lacks heart.....and he wants out. So think about it, if he wants out.....how much will those negative qualities amplify?? BUB BYE ROSE - This is a tough one. I love his desire, I love his heart, I love his leadership. However he is too expensive for what he brings to this team. If I trade Vince....Rose goes with him. Marshall - I love him as well but I don't think he likes it in the T-Dot. He is in his last year of his contract. Many teams could use him including Seattle (would love to get my hands on Jones and Fortson) Alvin - Oh Alvin, Alvin, Alvin. You've been my boy for so long. But those ankles of yours...eek...One more surgery and you'll need to glue your shoes to your nubs. Lamond - Whiny Bizitch. Nuff said. Moiso - no work ethic.....he will fail in the NBA, there is no home for him. I know this second hand....he couldn't care less to improve. Milt Palacio - really quick and he has some decent handles but MAN, I learned how to do a lay up this first time I was coached. When he is on the floor, he is a liability. BOTTOM LINE RE BUILD - Vince was the foundation of the Raptors for 6 years. If he was to leave I would say it should be built around BOSH.
<u>keep:</u> Vince Carter - without him, we would probably be among the worst teams in the league. He is the best player on the team, and alhough injuries have somewhat declined his development into a top 5 player (he could have been), I still believe he has the potential to be a top 10 player in the NBA. Chris Bosh - He is the future of the raptors organization. One day I guarantee he will put up Jermaine O'neal-like numbers or maybe better. Jalen Rose - At the moment he is the raptors second option. He can't guard a little child, but he can flat out score. He can also add some rebounding numbers to a team along with a few assists. The only problem I have with him is his inconsistency, One night he puts up 19, 5 and 4, the other he puts up 8, 3 and 2. Donyell Marshall - he is argueably the most consistent player on the raptors (Exclude 2 or 3 games) ball club. He is a solid rebounder and I was really surprised he even got that much considering he is only 6'8 and a half/6'9 playing the power forward and center position. Rafer Alston - He provided very good minutes for the heats last season and i'm sure he will this year too. He can shoot the three setting the heats ball club record with the most consecutive 3 pointers a game (atleast one every game). Roger Mason Jr. - He showed in the summer league and training camp glimpses of what he can do. He will one day be a real good sixth man/ role player for a team. <u>Get Out:</u> Alvin Williams - He has been hitting up injuries lately and I respect him a lot, but I just don't see him producing even when he was injured. Jerome Moiso - some part of me wants him to stay, but the rest is telling me he will never reach his potential. He has gotten his chance, he got some good playng time but did not produce , with a few exceptional games (double double two nights) Milt Palacio - He puts up a good game one day, and it's like he's invisible the next.simple as that. <u>Neutral</u> Rafael Araujo - it seems unfair to judge him considering he never played an NBA game yet. However, he is one of the biggest (maybe the biggest) body on the team and he can be quite useful in the long run. Lamond Murray - i'm giving himanother chance, I expect him to redeem himself this season and will put up decent bench numbers.
(if i miss someone just add them) Keep: Vince: Key guy, once given the right players around him like the years when we were in the playoffs, then would really score around 25-30ppg. Bosh: This guy really has a great upside, had the starting position on center when davis left. Given those minutes and experience should give him a better year, and also with the added weight he worked for this offseason. Peterson: He might be inconsistent last year, but playing as a starter and moved as a bench player and just given the spot at the side of the arcs for 3's is not going to help this guy improve. If Sam Mitchell's coaching style is really run and gun then mo will benifit from it. Rose: You can't really get rid of him since his contract is really huge but as soon as his contract is up then he might retire, he played pg for us last year hopefully he will be a SG. By the way, he still has some clutch shots hahaha poor milwaukee had to face detroit on the first round Marshall: Could be traded but at the same time good to keep as well. Can shoot the 3, and rebound he's the double-double machine for the raps. this guy is good for us but if we can make a package and trade him for a center then it would really benefit us. Alston: Great pick up for us, could've gotten him cheaper last year though. We're counting on him to take the starting PG, style of coach mitchell's should also give skip some fun with the ball. OUT? Murray: if this guy is benched again, then he should be traded cuz eh's just eating some of the raptors salary, he's way too slow defensively. Palacio: Got Milt? hope not! He can run, but can't stop and usually gets called for a charge. Can't make the open shots, can't finish the break, why is he needed? he's got a contract so prove me wrong milt. Moiso: He can rebound, but he must improve offensively, he has no post move,shot. Another guy with a contract to prove people wrong Araujo: Watching the summer league, he's got a lot to learn. IMO he's not worth the No.8 pick, but again hopefully he proves me wrong and works hard enough to compete for the 5 spot against woods Woods: Got the size, hope he's not another moiso without a confidence *****If i missed anyone just add them to yours*****
Why did you have to hate on Araujo, he hasn't even played yet, I'm not a fan of his, but saying he has to get out before he's done anything is a little cruel. <u>Keep</u> Vince Carter - Nothing much to say, trade if something good arises. Chris Bosh - Nothing much to say, not going anywhere, unless we get Amare. Donyell Marshall - He's our biggest tradeable asset after Carter, but we can't trade him for nothing, keep unless a good deal arises. Rafer Alston - He's good, should help the team, so keep. Morris Peterson - Defense, Mo is inconsistent to another degree, perimeter players are never really consistent, but he's on another level . Keep though, he's still a good player. Rafael Araujo - He's a rookie, we can't just get rid of him, well we could if we get someone good, but we can't consider him being on the block or something. Roger Mason Jr - I guess he's a keeper, people like him a lot. <u>Get Out</u> Jalen Rose - Actually never wanted him, and people can argue he was good for the team, but I'd be overjoyed if we could trade him and get someone decent back. Milt Palacio - At least he doesn't turn the ball over too much. Alvin Williams - Too much money even if he was playing, but in his state now, a lot of money for no play. Lammond Murray - He needs to go somwhere else, maybe he'll do good this season, but Lammond doesn't excite me as being able to do anything spectacular for the team. <u>Neutral</u> Jerome Moiso - Whatever Pape Sow - He can do his thing I guess Loren Woods - Not as good as some people seem to think he will be for the team, but whatever, I'll give him a chance I guess.
<u>Keep</u> Vince Carter- No need to explain again, he is the glue for this franchise as of now, only let him go when a good deal arises, not for a bunch of scrubs (what the hell is the NY media thinking?) Rafer Alston- I think he will thrive under Mitchell's run-and-gun system. He is a point guard that's only getting better every year. He had an excellent season in Miami, and is getting better at shooting. Donyell Marshall- Automatic double double. Trade him when the oppurtunity is good, not for nothing. He brings his heart out every game. Jalen Rose- As much as his contract is fat, JR isn't a bad player. There were stretches were he has hit clutch shots and can get us some points easy. His defense is just horrible though. CB4- He will be a great PF in the future. Not as complete as Garnett but he will be an all-star, keep him. Mo-Pete- As much as I hated that 5 mill contract, he is a great perimeter defender and though inconsistent, he can hit the shots if hes in a rhythm, if he drove more often he would be better. <u>Let Go</u> Lamond Murray- The raptors shattered his confidence last year by not letting him play. He was a 20 point kind of guy in cleveland, and i don't think he can do that in Toronto. He is a bit selfish and egotistical and will be more of a cancer to the team. Milt Palacio- I cant begin to tell you how much I hate his game. He grabs a rebound and runs out of control till the other end and just jacks up an ugly looking or off-balance shot. TRADE HIM please. Alvin Williams- Injuries have caught up to him. I loved watching him play because he brung it every night and he's been in Toronto for a long time but it's time to part ways. <u>Neutral-</u> Arjuano- Haven't really seen him play, the Raptors should keep him for atleast 2-3 years and see how he pans out unlike they did with Bender and Arroyo and others. Roger Mason Jr.- He is pretty good when given the oppurtunity, and will get better as long as he gets to play. He will be like the new version of Alvin Williams. Jerome Moiso- He is a good shot blocker and a decent scorer. He will help the Raptors if given the chance. Kind of like a poor man's version of Jermaine O'Neal. Don't really care about the rest
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting invertedzero:</div><div class="quote_post">(if i miss someone just add them) Keep: Vince: Key guy, once given the right players around him like the years when we were in the playoffs, then would really score around 25-30ppg. Bosh: This guy really has a great upside, had the starting position on center when davis left. Given those minutes and experience should give him a better year, and also with the added weight he worked for this offseason. Peterson: He might be inconsistent last year, but playing as a starter and moved as a bench player and just given the spot at the side of the arcs for 3's is not going to help this guy improve. If Sam Mitchell's coaching style is really run and gun then mo will benifit from it. Rose: You can't really get rid of him since his contract is really huge but as soon as his contract is up then he might retire, he played pg for us last year hopefully he will be a SG. By the way, he still has some clutch shots hahaha poor milwaukee had to face detroit on the first round Marshall: Could be traded but at the same time good to keep as well. Can shoot the 3, and rebound he's the double-double machine for the raps. this guy is good for us but if we can make a package and trade him for a center then it would really benefit us. Alston: Great pick up for us, could've gotten him cheaper last year though. We're counting on him to take the starting PG, style of coach mitchell's should also give skip some fun with the ball. OUT? Murray: if this guy is benched again, then he should be traded cuz eh's just eating some of the raptors salary, he's way too slow defensively. Palacio: Got Milt? hope not! He can run, but can't stop and usually gets called for a charge. Can't make the open shots, can't finish the break, why is he needed? he's got a contract so prove me wrong milt. Moiso: He can rebound, but he must improve offensively, he has no post move,shot. Another guy with a contract to prove people wrong Araujo: Watching the summer league, he's got a lot to learn. IMO he's not worth the No.8 pick, but again hopefully he proves me wrong and works hard enough to compete for the 5 spot against woods Woods: Got the size, hope he's not another moiso without a confidence *****If i missed anyone just add them to yours*****</div> I agree with this post, I don't understand though, Why do so many people dislike D-Marsh?...He like you said is our second most consistent player, Versatile, And does many things including laying good "DEFENSE" unlike SOO MANY of our other Raps players, He is my second favorite player in a Raps uniform, He work hard every night and has no ego, Does many things for this team!
Retain: -Vince Carter: Our best player, our most talented player, our franchise, has dominating capability. -Jalen Rose: A true leader, a poised and determined player, plays with heart every game. -Chris Bosh: No explanation required. -Rafer Alston: A great point guard. -Donyell Marshall: A great all-around player. -Roger Mason Jr.: Has the potential to literally be one the best point guards in the league. Relieve: -Alvin Williams: Injury prone, poor point guard in every aspect. -Jerome Moiso: Least prepared player, lazy, undetermined, bad skills. -Loren Woods: Great bust. -Morris Peterson: An good defender, but a horrible mentality in terms of decision making and heart. Moot: -Rafael Araujo: A fully experienced true center with great skills unlike most centers but translating it on the NBA court is questionable. -Pape Sow: Who? -Milt Palacio: A decent point guard who can generate the offense, but has poor skills and frequently makes poor decisions. -Lamond Murray: Crap defender, decent offender, poor decision maker.
KEEP: Vince Carter -' nuff said. Chris Bosh - again, nothing needed to say. Jalen Rose - his shot selection wasn't as good as we wanted it last year but he is a solid contributer. Rafer Alston - Great Point guard, crowd pleaser and favourite, his time in Maima brought him alot of exeperience. Oh and he can hit the trey. Donyell Marshall - Good player, can contribute with double doubles. esentially keep a well built core that has alot of potential to win in the east. Roger Mason Jr. - I have heard good things about htis guy in the summer league, it should be Sam Mitchell's secret weapon project. He has alot of potential Honorary Mention: Alvin Williams Boot Lammond Murray - I think we should give him a chance under Sam Mitchell, but hell, get this guy out of here. Milt Palacio - Couldn't maek a shot if he had to. Loren Woods - Never seen him play, enough opinions to amke the assumption that he's a waste of Salary cap. Benefit of the doubt: Jerome Moiso Neutral Alvin Williams - I'm biased, and I simply like Alvin, but he is a great veteran and he tries his hardest every single night. Rafael Araujo - he needs alot of development, but is good @ clogging up the center. A waste for an 8th overall pick. I haven't seen him play, but he can help. Jerome Moiso He showed some signs of brilliance last season, but overall is a crappy player, was it KO? I dunno, I think he can develop though. But if it came down to it, boot him out. PS. jtam, you post some hella biased stuff.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> -Alvin Williams: Injury prone, poor point guard in every aspect. </div> Alvin's a poor point guard in every aspect? He distributes the ball well, isn't a shoot first player and plays with tremendous heart and is NOT turnover prone. He is also a SG playing PG, like Dwyane Wade in Miami. Yes, he has been injured frequently, I think we should let him go, but he is not a "poor PG in every aspect" IMO.
nice thread keep bosh - a superstar in the making. bosh is our future. all-star, 20/10, i think he'll do it all vince - he's on the rebound from his injuries. he played in almost the whole season last year and put up great numbers. this year, i think he'll have a better season ie: playin more games, and put up better numbers. skip - just entering his prime now...still pretty young, keep him aboard jalen - contrary to what most people think, i believe he's a good raptor. he gives us a legitimate 2nd punch, and a versitile player that can log minutes at 3 diff positions. he creates mis-matches on the floor, and likes playing with vince. near the end of the season, he was punishing people in the post and playing really well. i say keep him, he may be overpaid, but hes still a good scorer. rafael - hes young, raw and has hands and foot work...give him a chance mo pete - as a 6th man, he should be effective. his inconsistancy seems to co-inside with the major fluctuation in his minutes. keep him to around 20 - 25 mins a game and he should give us a nice punch off the bench. also, dont keep him on the perimeter...he can slash and fly...use his strengths Dump palacio - a point guard who cant shoot (even free throws) or finnish around the basket is a liability on offence. he cant play D either, so what does he do for our team? lammond - he was given a chance...he's lazy and a complainer and over-paid. dump him donyell - i think he's the most consistent player on our team, but he's also our best trade bait. hes got an expiring contract, and he's comming off a GREAT season. he can play 2-3 positions because of his length and range and he's a double double machine. we could get some bench depth or a center for him. although he gives us depth...we saw in chicago how innefective he was comming off the bench. neutral moiso is a big man, and big man development typically takes a bit longer, mason jr is young and growing as a player, alvin should be good as a back up pg.
KEEP Vince - regardless of inconsistency and injuries, he is our present franchise player and it is likely that he won't be traded and remain a Raptor this coming season Bosh - Like everyone else has said, came off a great year and holds tremedous potential to become a great star in this league...he's def. a keeper Rafer - Skip is back in T.O. and lovin' it...what legit reason do we have to dump him? He just came off a great season and it doesn't look like his career is dimming one bit. Rose - Yes a hefty contract, but he is still a good offensive threat and abuses smaller guards when he's playing that position. He loves this team and strongly supports t.o. His passing is also quite good, but defense is atrocious and too many turnovers. Marshall - Before i would have said that we shold trade him. But now that our signings and deals are pretty much done with, i would say keep him because it would be really hard now to package him in a deal for a legit centre. Regardless, he is truly a great player and delivers almost every night. The most consistent Raptor thus far. Roger Mason - He wasn't given a remotely legit. chance to show what he could bring to the team under K.O.s coaching. He was great in summer league and i think that he can become a great player off the bench for us. He's got a good shot, good f.t., quickness, and athleticism. Bring it on Mason. Moiso - Given the minutes, he is a solid player with tremendous athleticism. I still question the work ethic but i feel that given this fresh start he will be more determined to show more enthusiasm and grit during both practice and games. DUMP Lamond Murray - God, you should have been gone ages ago yet you still remain here. I wouldn't be surprised to see him throw some more bricks at the net and then complain to the coach that he isn't getting enough "deserving" playing time. Prove me wrong though and i'll shut my mouth. Palacio - Yes he has quickness, yes he can penetrate. But what good are those things if you can't shoot, pass, handle the ball properly, or even make simple fast break lay-ups at times? Provides good energy off the bench but i say no. Mo Pete - Yes he is a good defender and has a solid outside jumper...but that contract makes me want to puke. If he starts slashing like he used to, then it'll be worth it. A. Dubb - Sorry man, but you gotta go. Love his heart and passion...but maybe he should have listened to the doctors and sit some games out before when they told him his ankles were witherhing away! His shot has gotten terrible as well. NEUTRAL Rafael Arujo - Some people say he's a bust...I say judge him based on his play during the games this year. We'll see whether or not he can handle the NBA game. I still feel that we should have gotten something better in the draft but what can you do? Pape Sow - Heard some good things about him in summer league but still not sure about him as an NBA player. Loren Woods - Got nothing on this guy except that his free agent is praising him saying that he's made a dramatic change in his behaviour and that he's willing to play harder and better than ever...hmmm
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Raptors2004:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree with this post, I don't understand though, Why do so many people dislike D-Marsh?...He like you said is our second most consistent player, Versatile, And does many things including laying good "DEFENSE" unlike SOO MANY of our other Raps players, He is my second favorite player in a Raps uniform, He work hard every night and has no ego, Does many things for this team!</div> playing good defense? Donyell Marshall? I mean he'll get some steals and block some shots, but Marshall is at most just an average defender
Keep Vince - Right now he's at his lowest point(trade value wise), so I dont see us getting much in return for him at this point. Also he is our franchise player and no other player(outside of LeBron) has the popularity that packs the arena like Vince. Hopefully he can play a complete season this year and get back to where he was before the injuries. I can see him really taking his game to the next level this year. Bosh- Probably would have been a first or second pick overall in any other draft. He's young and talented and given the opportunity he will definitely become something special. The knock on him is his weight, but he seems to be gaining strength through training and as he ages he should also become bigger. Alston- Really stepped it up last year and its obvious he actually likes Toronto. I really like his fast paced game style. Hopefully he doesnt look to jack up too many three's this year, because the last thing we need is another person jacking up shots. Should be awesome watching him play along side Vince and Bosh this season. MoPete - Although he shouldn't be a starter, I think he would be great off the bench. He's still pretty young and probably our best perimeter defender. He can hit the three ball, but at times gets carried away with hanging out on the corners waiting for the kick out. Araujo-Want to see him play before I say get rid of him. I've only seen a few of his college games and he looked pretty good, he has the size and nastyness to play in the NBA. Good outside shot and overall offensive game for a post player, he just needsd to improve defensively. Moiso - He's young and unproven. Kevin O'neil didnt play him much last season and he was Grunwald's prized free agent aquisition last season. Hopefully he will get some playing time this season and step it up. Last season he looked good at times and at other times, he just kind of faded. Good shot blocker and rebounder, needs to improve post game though. Out Rose- Getting old now and has a huge contract. I do like Rose and he does bring a much needed energy to the team since JYD's departure, but the negatives outweigh the positives and I think if we can trade him and get some value back we should do it. Marshall- Very under rated player, but I think he needs to be let go in order to make way for Bosh. If he can play SF then maybe we should keep him as he is a good 3pt shooter, rebounder and shot blocker. The only problem with him playing the 3 spot is that he might not be quick enough to keep up with other SF's. I dont really see him playing well as a bench player, so if we could trade him for a starting or quality center or swingman(if Rose is gone as well), I say do it. Williams- Has a permanent limp(injuries) which translates into him being alot slower. He is still a great ball handler and has tremendous heart, but injuries have taken its toll. Will never be as good as he was in the past. Its unfortunate to say, but its all downhill for A- Will from here on out. Palacio- Can't shoot, can't create, can't defend. Can't stay. Lammond- I haven't seen that much of him play, other than the few times he was on the court during the season and a few summer league games last summer. He looked good during the summer league, but during the regular season he was really playing poorly. This year we should get a real good look at him. The reason why I say get rid of him is because he has a pretty big contract and if he isn't happy here in Toronto, why keep him? Roger Mason Jr. - I haven't seen enough of his game to make a real judgement call, but I just have a feeling that he isn't worth keeping. Dont ask me why. Woods -See above.
