<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Pure Skillz:</div><div class="quote_post">Honstely though players like Vin Baker and Mutombo who the knicks have taken risks on before did they deserve it at the time or in Bakers case does he deserve it now? You asked how can he help you guys really though how can he hurt you? He will be signed to a small contract something goes wrong waive him. He takes up a roster spot big deal and its not like your taking a huge cap shot since they have the highest pay roll in the league. Also liek I was saying to you on aim with players like Sweetny who dominated the double a level not performing that well in NY yet. What makes you thinka player like Ariza whod dint average over 20 points in college will last long in NY? Summer league games are not a good stage to judge a player on because they are playing players whoa re tring to make a roster like them selves or are rookies or undeveloped players. Good example of how summer league doesnt prove anything look at players like John Salmons dominate the summe rleague every year and dontdo well during the regular season as a team would like. Players like Lonny Baxter to look at him won rebook mvp in last years summe rleague trraded from the bulls tot he raptors, waived by the raptors, signed to a minimum contract by the wiz.</div> The Baker thing- YES, it was a good idea to take a risk on him! We needed an inside presence going into the playoffs and he was supposed to BRING IT! He is worth it again so he may tach his post-moves to Sweetney. Sweetney is performing well in NY, he averaged 15-17 rebounds per 48 minutes last year, that is OUTSTANDING for a rookie. Ariza didn't average 20 points in college? So?! He has shown great talent and he is worth it. Anyway, Ariza is making NOTHING, he's already more valuable than Clark because he has a future and he has good courtvision. The Cap issue- I know the Knicks will never be relieved of the cap, but is that an excuse to throw money away? No. There is simply no point in signing him, he won't help us at all, all he'd do is take up space. He also lacks fundamentals at this stage in his career! Why bring in a guy like that? He may disturb the teachings of Abdul-Jabbar! There is no GOOD reason to have him in NY, we need a big man, but he can't fill the void appropriately.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Knicks Analyst:</div><div class="quote_post">The Baker thing- YES, it was a good idea to take a risk on him! We needed an inside presence going into the playoffs and he was supposed to BRING IT! He is worth it again so he may tach his post-moves to Sweetney.</div> Did Baker prove to you guys that he can "bring it" as you like to say? Because to me it does not look like he proved much and considering the fact I think the Knicks will be in the layoffs this year I think you would be still looking for an inside pressence. Espically now that Mutombo is gone. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Knicks Analyst:</div><div class="quote_post">Sweetney is performing well in NY, he averaged 15-17 rebounds per 48 minutes last year, that is OUTSTANDING for a rookie.</div> Yet offensively he did not prove he can be the horse that the knicks can ride to the playoffs like some analysts on draft night said. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Knicks Analyst:</div><div class="quote_post">Ariza didn't average 20 points in college? So?! He has shown great talent and he is worth it. Anyway, Ariza is making NOTHING, he's already more valuable than Clark because he has a future and he has good courtvision.</div> Really Ariza is more avaliable then Clark? Ariza I bet can defend really well and has already proven he is not going to be a bust probably right. No way Ariza after a few good summer league games has already more worth than Clark. Only thing ariza has is the age factor. He has not played a single nba minute. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Knicks Analyst:</div><div class="quote_post">The Cap issue- I know the Knicks will never be relieved of the cap, but is that an excuse to throw money away? No. There is simply no point in signing him, he won't help us at all, all he'd do is take up space. He also lacks fundamentals at this stage in his career! Why bring in a guy like that? He may disturb the teachings of Abdul-Jabbar! There is no GOOD reason to have him in NY, we need a big man, but he can't fill the void appropriately.</div> How is it throwing money away. Isee it as a solid investment and like any investment it has its risks, but if you score you have a huge player at a cheap price. Youc said it yourself they need a inside force for the playoffs why not take a risk on one?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Pure Skillz:</div><div class="quote_post">Did Baker prove to you guys that he can "bring it" as you like to say? Because to me it does not look like he proved much and considering the fact I think the Knicks will be in the layoffs this year I think you would be still looking for an inside pressence. Espically now that Mutombo is gone. Yet offensively he did not prove he can be the horse that the knicks can ride to the playoffs like some analysts on draft night said. Really Ariza is more avaliable then Clark? Ariza I bet can defend really well and has already proven he is not going to be a bust probably right. No way Ariza after a few good summer league games has already more worth than Clark. Only thing ariza has is the age factor. He has not played a single nba minute. How is it throwing money away. Isee it as a solid investment and like any investment it has its risks, but if you score you have a huge player at a cheap price. Youc said it yourself they need a inside force for the playoffs why not take a risk on one?</div> Baker- No he didnt bring it! I know this! But is it worth a shot?! ABSOLUTLEY! So what if Sweetney isn't a weapon on offense?! He is a dynamc OFFENSIVE rebounder! We have the guards to hoist the jumpers (starbury, Crawford and Houston---all natural scorers) and we have Sweets to pull down boards! Ariza is much more valuable! You must've missed the games in the summer league. He tore it apart! People in NY worship him already.Ariza's defense was prett damn solid as well. Granted, some can't perform on NY's stage, ISIAH THINKS HE'S A GOOD SWINGMAN AND LETS SAY THAT ISIAH KNOWS HIS GUARDS! It's throwing money away iin the sense that we already dished out money to Baker and we can put our Centers and PFs into the hands of the likes of Abdul-Jabbar! There is no need to waste money. You ssay that Clark is a 'solid investment' tell that to Utah/Phoenix. He is an injury-plagued old player-----you call that a solid investment?! Check out how many games he played last year! http://www.nba.com/playerfile/keon_clark/index.html?nav=page that's right! A WHOPPING 2 GAMES! That sure is a solid investment as he is a "solid" ballplayer.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Knicks Analyst:</div><div class="quote_post">Baker- No he didnt bring it! I know this! But is it worth a shot?! ABSOLUTLEY! So what if Sweetney isn't a weapon on offense?! He is a dynamc OFFENSIVE rebounder! We have the guards to hoist the jumpers (starbury, Crawford and Houston---all natural scorers) and we have Sweets to pull down boards! Ariza is much more valuable! You must've missed the games in the summer league. He tore it apart! People in NY worship him already.Ariza's defense was prett damn solid as well. Granted, some can't perform on NY's stage, ISIAH THINKS HE'S A GOOD SWINGMAN AND LETS SAY THAT ISIAH KNOWS HIS GUARDS! It's throwing money away iin the sense that we already dished out money to Baker and we can put our Centers and PFs into the hands of the likes of Abdul-Jabbar! There is no need to waste money. You ssay that Clark is a 'solid investment' tell that to Utah/Phoenix. He is an injury-plagued old player-----you call that a solid investment?! Check out how many games he played last year! http://www.nba.com/playerfile/keon_clark/index.html?nav=page that's right! A WHOPPING 2 GAMES! That sure is a solid investment as he is a "solid" ballplayer.</div> Ok how are you going to judge Ariza on summer league games? Laren Woods once scored 30 points in a summer league game this year he struggled even to get a contract on a roster. He played solid defense? Agianst who other rookies and people tring to make a nba roster liek him? O and you really waisted a lot of money on Vin Baker wow what a pay day he got. Nothing in the NBA is a given look at Jayson Williams Nets signed him to a huge deal runs into marbury bomb nba career is over. So anything in the NBA can be considered a solid investment. The Knicks need a inside pressence despite your reluctance to agree with me you have already stated that yourself Clark is the best left on the market so you really have to take a shot on him. Not to mention the Sweetny thing he has reallystrived at one point last season he was on injury reserve for how long? and why not because he was injured, but jsut to stay on the roster.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Pure Skillz:</div><div class="quote_post">Ok how are you going to judge Ariza on summer league games? Laren Woods once scored 30 points in a summer league game this year he struggled even to get a contract on a roster. He played solid defense? Agianst who other rookies and people tring to make a nba roster liek him? O and you really waisted a lot of money on Vin Baker wow what a pay day he got. Nothing in the NBA is a given look at Jayson Williams Nets signed him to a huge deal runs into marbury bomb nba career is over. So anything in the NBA can be considered a solid investment. The Knicks need a inside pressence despite your reluctance to agree with me you have already stated that yourself Clark is the best left on the market so you really have to take a shot on him. Not to mention the Sweetny thing he has reallystrived at one point last season he was on injury reserve for how long? and why not because he was injured, but jsut to stay on the roster.</div> Trevor Ariza- I'm not solely judging him on the summer league stuff. I sprung 30 bucks for tapes of him in college. If he stayed a year or so longer, he's be a lotterey pick. He does, however, need to work on his perimeter Defense.His overall game is, as you would say "solid" i think he is a better investment then Clark. We paid Baker what he's worth! "So anything in the NBA can be considered a solid investment." Signing a 29-year old bum who never made a starting line-up for a consistent period of time while you have Baker already signed as a back-up center is a SOLID INVESTMET? NO!IT'S BARELY EVEN AN INVESTMENT, HE WON'T REALLY PLAY, HE'LL TEACH MOHHAMED HOW TO BLOCK SHOTS! WOW! FOR THAT HE DESERVES A ROSTER SPOT! Sweetney- He was on the IR when Layden was the GM! That doesn't account for anything! What matters is what happens with the NEW GM - Isiah Thomas! Abdul-Jabbar has said countless times that Sweetney will emerge one days as a great ballplayer. Sweetney has drawn comparisons to Elton Brand, Clark is not worth corrupting such a piece!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Knicks Analyst:</div><div class="quote_post">Trevor Ariza- I'm not solely judging him on the summer league stuff. I sprung 30 bucks for tapes of him in college. If he stayed a year or so longer, he's be a lotterey pick. He does, however, need to work on his perimeter Defense.His overall game is, as you would say "solid" i think he is a better investment then Clark.</div> Though that improves your case by a lot the fact still remains that the double A level and the NBA level are to very different floors to compete on. A lot of players who have been great in college have not lasted very long in the league. I am at this moment gona call Clark better because I have seen what he does when healthy and have not seen Ariza's nba game yet. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Knicks ANaylst:</div><div class="quote_post">We paid Baker what he's worth! "So anything in the NBA can be considered a solid investment." Signing a 29-year old bum who never made a starting line-up for a consistent period of time while you have Baker already signed as a back-up center is a SOLID INVESTMET? NO!IT'S BARELY EVEN AN INVESTMENT, HE WON'T REALLY PLAY, HE'LL TEACH MOHHAMED HOW TO BLOCK SHOTS! WOW! FOR THAT HE DESERVES A ROSTER SPOT!</div> He may not have been in the starting lineup consistantly in sac town which was the last time he was healthy, but the three man rotation of him, polard, and divac was almost enough to over throw the Lakers all those years. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Knicks Anayalst:</div><div class="quote_post">Sweetney- He was on the IR when Layden was the GM! That doesn't account for anything! What matters is what happens with the NEW GM - Isiah Thomas! Abdul-Jabbar has said countless times that Sweetney will emerge one days as a great ballplayer. Sweetney has drawn comparisons to Elton Brand, Clark is not worth corrupting such a piece!</div> Clark would not corrupt Sweetny because sweetny is a power forward and Clark is a center. Either way those are my summary thoughts on on this subject and will probably be my last post in this thread we are both being stubborn on this matter and can go on like this all day.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Pure Skillz:</div><div class="quote_post">. Either way those are my summary thoughts on on this subject and will probably be my last post in this thread we are both being stubborn on this matter and can go on like this all day.</div> Well since you definently can't change my mind, and I can't change yours I suppose we've reached a stalemate. We were both stubborn, that can be viewed as a good thing.
I commend you both. That conversation is why I log into this forum. I dont post often but I read daily. Both of you made solid points. I will say that i dont see much harm in inviting him to camp though. If he diserves a contract, he'll earn one.
