probly not, and he wudnt be good for the atmosphere anyways. Can the Celtics fine him for not showing up?
<font size="5"><u>NOTE:</u> <font color="DarkRed">Please post all updates, rumors, news stories, etc. concerning the Gary Payton situation into this thread.</font></font> I've merged a few of the other GP threads into this one as well. This will keep the forum cleaner and easier to manage. Thanks.
I've heard alot of people say that Gary is washed up, and they are basing their statements on last year. I also heard from others that he was a victim of Phil Jackson's system. Well, after a little research, I think I agree that it was more the system that pulled him down, not poor play. If you take a look at the stats of any starting point guard on a Phil Jackson team, then you will realize how creepishly similar they all are. Without going too far into detail, here is a list of numbers for Jackson-coached starting PGs. Year 1) 10 ppg 4 apg Year 2) 8 ppg 4 apg Year 3) 10 ppg 3 apg Year 4) 12 ppg 4 apg Year 5) 15 ppg 4 apg Year 6) 14 ppg 3 apg Year 7) 8 ppg 3 apg Year 8) 8 ppg 3 apg Year 9) 10 ppg 3 apg Year 10) 7 ppg 3 apg Year 11)11 ppg 4 apg Year 12)11 ppg 3 apg Year 13)11 ppg 4 apg Year 14)15 ppg 6 apg (Payton) It's obvious that only so much was expected from Jackson's point guards. While some may have scored a little more than others, they all ranged from 3-4 assists per game with the exception of Gary Payton who had 6 per game. I think these numbers put some truth behind the theory of Gary being a victim of the triangle offense. He is getting older though, which I think will just make him a better team player because he can't do it all by himself like he used to in Seattle. It wouldn't surprise me to see him average a double-double playing under Rivers. Doc's offense is the kind of offense Gary will thrive in.
Well, he went looking for both in LA and by his standards probably didn't get either to his liking. This season will play out very interesting for the C's. GP could make us an Atlantic and potentially Eastern contender, depending on how he and other players do. No promises of championships this season in Boston, so we'll see how GP deals with the situation.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting hagrid:</div><div class="quote_post">Well, he went looking for both in LA and by his standards probably didn't get either to his liking.</div> Actually I'd have to disagree with that. I remember a quote early on with the Lakers where he said "I dont need to be personally successful, I've had personal success my whole career." He really only wanted the ring. I have seen GP play many times (courtside), he was brutal to his team. Demanding the ball, cussing at them when they messed up, etc. On the Lakers he was completely different (I saw him play as a Laker as well). He didnt try to take over games, and believe it or not his trash talking decreased. He didn't want to average 20 ppg. His assists even dropped! He was passing to Kobe, Shaq, and Malone as opposed to Lewis, Barry, and Mason, yet his assists dropped! Proof that he let Kobe have the ball handling resposibilities that he demands. Anyway this isn't really about the GP watch, so sorry for getting off topic.
No, thats OK Jurassic. At least it's intelligent contribution that's about the topic in question: GP. I guess my thought about the personal success part was that I see GP winning a championship in that way as a means of him achieving personal success. Not with stats though, with a ring. A guy like GP has been maligned most of his career as a selfish, me first player (derservedly or not, that's up to each individual to determine on thier own). By sacrificing his stats to win a championship, I think that there's a contention out there that GP can make his legacy not quite so tarnished, from a selfishness standpoint. If you look at it from that angle, there's an element of seeking personal gain. Granted, that's a jaded angle to come at the matter from and I freely admit that not everyone will subscribe to it and I'm not sure I even fully do, but it's something to consider.
Hmmm.. I wonder, if what Jurassic is saying is true, that GP may revert back to his old "selfish" self. We all know the C's are no title contender (yet), and are trying to nurture the youth. I wonder if GP would be down for helping with that, or would be looking to beef up his individual stats looking toward his personal future. He may want more shots, and be a bad influence on the youth by not being the most supportive elder as they go through their learning curve. People (including myself) have been saying that GP will improve this year compared to last year because he has something to prove and he will be in a system more suited for him. It's possible that that "something to prove" is that he can still produce good numbers, which doesn't necessarliy translate to being a good mentor for our young guards. As a Celtic fan, I am optimistic about GP's play and influence, as well as our upcoming season as a whole, but it's very possible that he may end up using this season not to be a good citizen and teammate but a good individual player, one that deserves a nice contract with a title contender.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">But Payton's agent, Aaron Goodwin, said Ainge's expectation that Payton would show up on Monday is "incorrect," according to Goodwin's spokeswoman, Alexandria Boone. She said Goodwin told her that he had no further comment. New Celtics coach Doc Rivers, who saw Payton this month in Las Vegas, is hopeful Payton will report on time. "We literally bumped into each other because I hadn't tried to call," Rivers said. "Danny's done a great job of talking to his agent. I don't think I need to get involved in that. I have to coach the guy. "I put two and two together. He's working out every day and he's under contract with the Celtics so he's working out for something," he added. "I don't worry about it. I think things are going to work out."</div> Full Story Hearing different things from the different camps. Sure hope he shows up though.
This is such an ongoing story. He's coming. He's not coming. Maybe he's coming. Maybe he's not coming. One thing is for sure, we have very little knowledge on what he plans to do. I don't know if I care or not, but I'll try to remain positive no matter what happens.
Reading Goodwin's comments on the celticsblog this morning. Needless to say it seems a little disconcerting to read. At this point, this Celtics fan is tired of the games. IF GP doesn't want to report, I say let him retire. The manner in which he's handled the situation is not appropriate for someone who's supposed to be a veteran NBA player. Thus far, despite Danny Ainge giving him the room he wants to make a decision, Payton refuses to make any public statement. Hell, he hasn't even leveled a trade demand to Ainge yet. Why is that? Frankly, when he does level the trade demand, I think Ainge should simply tell him NO, although I doubt he will. Payton, to this point has exemplified exactly why alot of teams weren't interested in his services when Kupchek was making calls: Childish and selfish personality. Get your butt to camp or retire with Fox, GP. Because if I were Ainge, I'd set a precedent by making assinine antics, like that which you've displayed thus far, something that will no longer be tolerated. They are displayed by entirely too many spoiled superstars who maintain an attitude that they don't need to act in a proper business manner, that is, until it's time to negotiate a new contract, then they're all about business...
<font color="DarkGreen"><font size="4">Apparently the drama is over:</font></font> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">One of the most prolonged waits in recent Celtics memory came to a satisfactory conclusion yesterday when management was told veteran Gary Payton will join the team today for media day and the start of training camp. </div> :thumbsup: Payton will report There's also more commentary on The CelticsBlog Oh and just to deal with something that has been swirling about that I keep contesting: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Goodwin, who was unavailable for comment yesterday, assured the Celtics throughout Payton's deliberations that his client did not object to playing for the Celtics in principle. </div>
Well...Pierce, Payton, Davis, Jefferson, Blount, Banks...I really like the chances for the Celtics this year. And it's funny...I bet you guys were so upset at the Lakers when you started wondering if Payton was even going to show
At the Lakers? Why would anyone be upset at the Lakers? I mean I guess Kupcek is to blame for GP being angry, but from my perspective, that's his and GP's business. Frankly, I don't blame GP for being pissed at him. The NBA is a business, but lying to someone's face is going to piss just about anyone off. I just wanted to know whether or not he was going to report so we could get on with the season and know what direction we were taking. I didn't actually believe he was going to report at all and even now am not sure he'll even spend an entire season here. We'll likely get a half season's worth of work out of him and if we're not lighting the league on fire (which is pretty likely we'll only be an average team that'll secure a 4-7 seed) then someone will come calling for his services for a playoff run. Maybe he'll surprise me and stick it out, but in his words "he's just not an East Coast guy". I can't wait to see the press conference highlights though. I am very surprised that he's coming in for media day and will be even more surprised if he doesn't have a prepared statement and then stops answering questions. If he talks, I'm expecting at least a "read between the lines" comment towards Kupcek.
For those with the station, apparently NBA TV will have coverage on training camps starting at 3pm EST. If they cover the C's, I'll be sure to share.
It's official! Link <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">ALTHAM, Mass. -- Gary Payton, the veteran guard the Boston Celtics acquired in an offseason trade with the Los Angeles Lakers, reported to training camp on Monday. Payton, 36, had said he didn't want to play in Boston or move his family from the West Coast. He missed an Aug. 13 deadline for his physical. New Celtics coach Doc Rivers, who saw Payton in September in Las Vegas, had said he was hopeful that Payton would appear. Payton gives Boston an aggressive point guard who can lead the running game and play tight defense. Payton was arrested Aug. 28 in California for suspected driving under the influence. He is scheduled to be in court on Oct. 15. The Celtics start training camp at the University of Vermont on Tuesday. Payton was traded to Boston on Aug. 6 as part of a deal that included the Celtics receiving the rights to Rick Fox, but the injury-plagued forward announced his retirement Thursday. The Lakers obtained Chucky Atkins, Marcus Banks and Chris Mihm. The Celtics also received a conditional first-round draft pick and cash. When Payton missed the deadline for his physical, the trade was amended. The Celtics gave the Lakers forward Jumaine Jones instead of point guard Banks. Celtics executive director of basketball operations Danny Ainge said last week that he believed Payton would report to camp, although Payton told one reporter days after the trade that he had no intention of joining the Celtics and desired a trade to a Western Conference team. Payton's agent, Aaron Goodwin, was quoted last week as saying that Payton, a lifelong West Coast resident, did not object to playing for the Celtics in principle. Rivers thinks Payton can help Banks and first-round pick Delonte West improve their point guard skills. "The one intangible -- that is a bad one and a good one -- is the mean streak, nasty persona" that Payton has, Rivers said last week. "It might be more difficult for me at times, but I think, for the team, it's not a bad thing. I like who he is on the floor. I like his temperament on the floor."</div>
<font size="5"><font color="DarkGreen">Gary Finally Speaks:</font></font> Comments from Payton <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">?I know I?m going to have to take a couple of them under my wing to try to make them better basketball players,? Payton said. ?Hopefully, they can catch on really quick and we can get wins.? </div> Optimistic View: I'm going to help make these guys better players. Pessimistic View: We need to get some wins by the All-Star break so I can get out of here. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> ?I didn?t get the chance to play the type of basketball I wanted to play,? he said. ?Now that?s over with. I feel comfortable coming here. I know it?s going to be different, so it?ll be back to my days when I (had) free reins to do the thing that I can do.? </div> Optimistic View: I'm going to be alot more comfortable playing this type of offense and you'll see results. Pessimistic View: I'm going to be able to rack up some stats so I can prove I've got value to a contender.
Media Day Fallout: Articles Some interesting stuff in those articles. Some contradict or bring new light to certain issues. Apparently Goodwin did speak to Ainge about a trade (not a trade demand, just what it would take to trade GP), but they never got specific and Ainge stayed steadfast in his desire to have GP in green and white. :thumbsup:
I agree with Hagrid.....I think GP will be trying to improve his trade value before the allstar break. He's not stupid.
