<div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post">Okay, let's assume that the Heat make it to the Eastern Conference Finals against...the Pistons. You have... Ben Wallace Rasheed Wallace Tayshaun Prince Richard Hamilton Chauncey Billups These guys will dismantle Shaq and Wade. There's nothing else to say, no reason to sit and argue about it. Now, let's say it's the Pacers vs. the Heat, and assuming the Heat win...and go on and face, umm...the Rockets in the Finals. Yao and McGrady will easily pick apart Shaq and Wade. Now, what about the Spurs? Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, Brent Barry, and Tony Parker will do the same to Shaq, Jones and Wade. Okay, let's say it's the Mavericks. Nowitzki, Dampier, Terry, Harris, Daniels, Howard, Stackhouse, Finley...the Heat would be destroyed once again. Come on guys...don't give this team too much credit. They lost a huge chunk of their team by trading off Odom, Butler and Grant for Shaq, who's not going to be their savior like he claims. He's just running his mouth and making things seem great in Miami...</div> I think what you are saying is very interesting. Since Miami is the East, it is a virtual lock that they will make it into the second round of the playoffs. Most likely, only Detroit or Indiana will offer much resistance. There's a chance that they would only have to play one of them. Perhaps they do, and perhaps Eddie Jones blocks a shot at the end of a game (ala T Prince). They sneak into the finals against one of the top Western teams, but that team is in turmoil, their old vet power forward gets hurt, the two top stars can't stand each other, their young stud has to stand trial for rape and arrives at the last second for the game and then proceeds to shoot 20% from 3 pt range. These things do happen. I wouldn't discount Miami winning it all. They are one of about six teams that do have a chance. They aren't in the same situation that San Antonio is, but they are a lot closer to the Spurs than the Bobcats.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SunshineRain:</div><div class="quote_post">I think what you are saying is very interesting. Since Miami is the East, it is a virtual lock that they will make it into the second round of the playoffs. Most likely, only Detroit or Indiana will offer much resistance. There's a chance that they would only have to play one of them. Perhaps they do, and <font color="Red">perhaps Eddie Jones blocks a shot at the end of a game (ala T Prince)</font>. They sneak into the finals against one of the top Western teams, but <font color="Blue">that team is in turmoil, their old vet power forward gets hurt, the two top stars can't stand each other, their young stud has to stand trial for rape and arrives at the last second for the game and then proceeds to shoot 20% from 3 pt range</font>. These things do happen. I wouldn't discount Miami winning it all. They are one of about six teams that do have a chance. They aren't in the same situation that San Antonio is, but they are a lot closer to the Spurs than the Bobcats.</div> <font color="Red">I don't think they'll even get that close to come down to a final second blocked shot. They'd need about three of those, along with some 4th quarter runs.</font> <font color="Blue">Not many changes have happened to these West teams though. The Lakers, however, acquired Payton and Malone, and that spelled trouble in the long run because Payton already showed signs of weakness in the regular season running the triangle, and I didn't even see Karl for half of the season anyways.</font> For the Heat to win the championship, they are going to first have to get into the playoffs. That means avoiding injuries to Shaq and/or Wade. Considering both were injured last year, it'll be tough to do this...and if ONE gets hurt for a reasonable amount of time, they'll lose nearly every game in that span. If they get into the playoffs, which I believe they will, they'll meet up with the Pistons or Pacers...it's almost guaranteed...and they'll have alot of trouble with Detroit. The Pacers will be a little easier, but not by much. After that, IF they make it to the Finals, it's against the best in the West...and if the Lakers (at their absolute best) could barely sneak past San Antonio with who they had last year, I don't see Miami winning even one game against the Spurs and Duncan in the Finals...or even them beating the Rockets, Mavericks, or even the Kings, if they don't choke.
Yeh, but it's like that movie Dumb and Dumber, where Carry asks the hot chick what his chances are and she says "about one in a million", and he say "so you're saying I have a chance. YES!!!!!"
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SunshineRain:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeh, but it's like that movie Dumb and Dumber, where Carry asks the hot chick what his chances are and she says "about one in a million", and he say "so you're saying I have a chance. YES!!!!!"</div>
Come on now, you guys dont honestly believe that the Mavs would beat the Heat do you? I can see where you are coming from speculation-wise, but the Mavs haven't proven anything. What's more they have a worse pg than last year. People are still living off of the fact that Stackhouse averaged 29.8 one year.....but what has he done recently. Dont expect too much out of him. Dampier will get you boards, but Shaq rarely misses when he dunks, so there wont be many boards to grab. Teams that could actually beat the Heat in the Playoffs/Finals: Spurs, Wolves, Pistons. And before I hear Houston fans start complaining, think for a minute about how soft Yao is. And Tmacs inability to lead a team. They would NOT beat the Heat.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jurassic:</div><div class="quote_post">Come on now, you guys dont honestly believe that the Mavs would beat the Heat do you? I can see where you are coming from speculation-wise, but the Mavs haven't proven anything. What's more they have a worse pg than last year. People are still living off of the fact that Stackhouse averaged 29.8 one year.....but what has he done recently. Dont expect too much out of him. Dampier will get you boards, but Shaq rarely misses when he dunks, so there wont be many boards to grab. Teams that could actually beat the Heat in the Playoffs/Finals: Spurs, Wolves, Pistons. And before I hear Houston fans start complaining, think for a minute about how soft Yao is. And Tmacs inability to lead a team. They would NOT beat the Heat.</div> Well, the Heat will put up a fight, no doubt, but the Mavs are WAY too deep. Shaq will sit on the bench in that game...and when he does, the Mavs can send out their second unit (off the bench) and demolish the Heat. Big scoring runs can beat out any team if they aren't careful, so Shaq better hope that he stays away from fouls and keeps healthy. As far as Houston goes, Yao/McGrady haven't worked together once...but neither has Shaq/Wade. McGrady can lead a team, but he can't lead them to success. How do you know if Wade could? I can bet anything against it. Shaq hasn't won a ring without Kobe, either...and vice versa. What really bothers me about all of this is that Shaq almost seems like he is missing Los Angeles already...because he can't get Kobe/Lakers off his mind. He's talking about Kobe, Kupchak, and the "bad trade" that they made...but why would he care? It's because he realizes that if Kobe/Shaq can't win a title, then Wade/Shaq have less of a chance, just like Penny/Shaq did...simple as that. It took Kobe and Shaq 3 years (and a coach by the name of Phil) to adjust and work together...and it was the same with Penny and Shaq (it took them a couple of years before they got to the Finals in Orlando)...so where does Shaq begin to think that him and Wade can do this in one year, just because they are in the East? Doesn't make sense to me.
lol do u have any links to "Shaq missing LA already?" or do u happen to be a gypsy who could read mind? Hah this kid says "Shaq almost seems like he is missing blah blah" what exactly "almost seems" mean anyway.... oh well realdealbneal, Lakers this year don't look as good so why don't you stop bashing about heat and Shaq? Thanks
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jurassic:</div><div class="quote_post">Come on now, you guys dont honestly believe that the Mavs would beat the Heat do you? I can see where you are coming from speculation-wise, but the Mavs haven't proven anything. What's more they have a worse pg than last year. People are still living off of the fact that Stackhouse averaged 29.8 one year.....but what has he done recently. Dont expect too much out of him. Dampier will get you boards, but Shaq rarely misses when he dunks, so there wont be many boards to grab. Teams that could actually beat the Heat in the Playoffs/Finals: Spurs, Wolves, Pistons. And before I hear Houston fans start complaining, think for a minute about how soft Yao is. And Tmacs inability to lead a team. They would NOT beat the Heat.</div> Yeh, I think the Mavs can beat the Heat and would be the slight favorite. Stackhouse likely will be coming off the bench for Dallas, so I don't think anyone is hanging that much on him. I think the hope comes in Dampier being able to physically match up as well as anyone in the league, at least enough to limit Shaq's post position, and even Booth can give a few productive minutes in that roll, then Bradley and Eschmier throwing six fouls each. Hack-a-Shaq is still a viable defense against the big man. Meanwhile, Jason Terry, Josh Howard and Marquis Daniels will hound Wade and the perimeter players. Meanwhile Dirk, Finley and Stack will fill it up from every angle. I think it would be a great series that would go seven. It would be NBA basketball at it's finest, a real matchup battle. The Rockets aren't deep enough yet.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting WadeDynasty:</div><div class="quote_post">lol do u have any links to "Shaq missing LA already?" or do u happen to be a gypsy who could read mind? Hah this kid says "Shaq almost seems like he is missing blah blah" what exactly "almost seems" mean anyway.... oh well realdealbneal, Lakers this year don't look as good so why don't you stop bashing about heat and Shaq? Thanks</div> Seems to me that you don't read in between the lines very well. It seems like he does because of the way he's running his big lips, he can't get the Lakers and Kobe off his mind, which he was supposed to do...right? Wait...let's make it easier to understand... Shaq keeps talking about Kobe, about Kupchak, about the Lakers...and he works on raps to throw Kobe's name in...his whole life since he's been traded is about losing weight (to piss off the Laker organization and to show how lazy he was in LA) and to diss Kupchak and Kobe. Seems to me that his mind is focused more on our team than the Heat. That wasn't so tough to understand, was it? Now, about the Lakers being worse, as you stated...we took your players, if you remember right. Odom was your leader, not Wade...so don't even begin to say that the kid was the main reason why the Heat almost beat the Pacers. His poor performance in Athens shows me that he can't do much himself. <u>We took your players</u>...I'm sorry if you don't remember them, but they were Odom, Grant, and Butler. Geez, Heat fans seem to forget that they even made it to the second round last year now that they believe they are going to win it all Now that is sad. Good luck with Shaq, Wade, Jones...and those other guys. EDIT: Thanks.
Hate to be off subject here, but this thread has been off subject from the start. Odom is a player. Bulter is a young guy that shot 23% from 3pt range last year, he is not yet a player but smart money says he will develop into a good player. Grant is cap filler and his best days were behind him ten years ago. For the record.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post">Seems to me that you don't read in between the lines very well. It seems like he does because of the way he's running his big lips, he can't get the Lakers and Kobe off his mind, which he was supposed to do...right? Wait...let's make it easier to understand... Shaq keeps talking about Kobe, about Kupchak, about the Lakers...and he works on raps to throw Kobe's name in...his whole life since he's been traded is about losing weight (to piss off the Laker organization and to show how lazy he was in LA) and to diss Kupchak and Kobe. Seems to me that his mind is focused more on our team than the Heat. That wasn't so tough to understand, was it? Now, about the Lakers being worse, as you stated...we took your players, if you remember right. Odom was your leader, not Wade...so don't even begin to say that the kid was the main reason why the Heat almost beat the Pacers. His poor performance in Athens shows me that he can't do much himself. <u>We took your players</u>...I'm sorry if you don't remember them, but they were Odom, Grant, and Butler. Geez, Heat fans seem to forget that they even made it to the second round last year now that they believe they are going to win it all Now that is sad. Good luck with Shaq, Wade, Jones...and those other guys. EDIT: Thanks.</div> Dissing someone means he misses him? Odom led us to second round? I love Odom and I envy you to have him in ur team but he didn't lead the team. If you can, watch the indiana series and see who had more impact on the game. OH he plays well all season and sucks in olympics and that's gonna make him a bad player? I'm not here to argue with you which team is better than which. I'm not here to argue with you if Heat or Lakers are gonna win championship. I'm here cuz I'm tired of your Shaq bashing. Everytime someone says "Shaq!", I know for sure who's preparing for the series of worst meaning words to attack Shaq. You should at least give him some respect for what he'd done for Lakers. Sure, bitter ending but you can't deny that he's gonna be remembered as one of the best Lakers. He probably gonna retire as Laker too. As a Lakers fan, you should pay some respect.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post">As far as Houston goes, Yao/McGrady haven't worked together once...but neither has Shaq/Wade. McGrady can lead a team, but he can't lead them to success. How do you know if Wade could? I can bet anything against it. Shaq hasn't won a ring without Kobe, either...and vice versa. </div> Shaq hasn't won a ring without Kobe, but he had been to the finals before. I never said that Wade could lead a team, but Shaq can. He lead LA to three championships. And actually Wade led his team pretty well against the Pacers, just ask JO. McGrady led a team to......a first round loss to the Pistons after being up 3-1. Oh yeah, he also led a team to a 21-61 record.....in the east. Yao has not led a team to anything, Steve Francis did. Of the four major players on these teams, Shaq is the only one that led a team.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post"> Geez, Heat fans seem to forget that they even made it to the second round last year now that they believe they are going to win it all Now that is sad.</div> Uh, the Heat made it to the second round with Brian Grant (more known for his hair than his game) as your "center". JO will not be able to do the stuff he was going with Shaq in the middle. As for the Lakers, Vlade is now your center . Kobe will have to watch his shot selection now, because their isn't a rebounder in the middle to clean up after his misses. Chucky Atkins at pg? Lamar Odom is the only real upgrade, and he has yet to play alongside a superstar. We'll see how that goes.
First off, this stuff isn't off topic...just letting everyone know, because the SLAM article has alot to do with the Lakers, Kobe/Kupchak, and Shaq. Now, to WadeDynasty...I don't bash Shaq until I see stupid comments that he makes, or ignorant threads stating that he's going to lead the Heat to a title and he's the greatest thing since Wilt or Jordan. The credit I give to Shaq...is that he is the greatest center since Hakeem. He's big. He's strong. Okay, we all know this. I try not to even remember he was on the Lakers...and I'll be honest when I say that even though he helped the Lakers win three titles (he wasn't the only reason), I can't stand him and I couldn't stand him even when he was in Los Angeles. There is no evidence anywhere, on JBB or any other forum, where I've stated that I really liked him as a Laker. The ONLY thing I've said about Shaq as a Laker was, "He had a good game." I don't go overboard and go, "The man is a god." I'd rather win one ring without Shaq, than win three with him. Jurassic...yeah, Grant was a center for the Heat. Here's my question...who will play center when Shaq sits during the 2nd with 3 fouls, or during the 4th with 5 fouls? Zhi Zhi? Doleac? These guys will get dismantled...and this was a Laker <u>nightmare</u>, especially for these last 2 years. We never had another center to back up Shaq, so we lost without him because Medvedenko/Horace Grant caused too many turnovers and had no defense...and neither are true centers. You say Odom is our only upgrade. Well, Caron Butler is a nice addition also, if he would stay healthy and have a chance in the lineup. Chucky Atkins at PG is a weakness...but we drafted a kid by the name of Vujacic who just may be taking Atkins' starting role by mid-season, maybe sooner. Also, we are stacking players to trade, so don't be surprised if we get a better PG soon. And you say Shaq led the Lakers and can do it by himself. Well, I want you to take away Penny Hardaway from the Magic roster in 1995. I doubt they would've gotten to the Finals. If you remember right, the Magic were swept in the Finals by the Rockets...and I believe Penny scored 32 in Game 2, and Shaq had 33...just showing you that without Penny, the Magic would've been just Shaq, and that means no playoff run. Also, let's move onto the Lakers and Shaq. Their three championships were in 2000, 2001, and 2002. Shaq did lead the team statistically, but Kobe was not far behind. Here's Kobe's stats from each of those seasons... 2000 - 47% FG, 22.5 PPG, 6 RPG, 5 APG 2001 - 46% FG, 28.5 PPG, 6 RPG, 5 APG 2002 - 47% FG, 25.2 PPG, 5.5 RPG, 5.5 APG These are numbers that the Lakers definitely needed. Shaq's numbers wouldn't have carried them to the Finals without Kobe. Bryant's stats are consistent, and beneficial to the Lakers' three championships...so in other words, I'll be the first to state that Shaq, Kobe, and Phil Jackson each shared a piece of the championships...and were all three vital to the team. Shaq/Kobe didn't work for 3 years, until Phil came in for the 1999-2000 season, where they won their first title that year. Pull one of those three, and the Lakers wouldn't have three titles. I think I have proven my point. So, here's where I stop believing the Heat will become the next dynasty and win titles... There's no Phil Jackson...Van Gundy is far from it. Shaq is past his prime. Unless he plays like the 1999-2001 Shaq, he's not as good anymore. Wade is nowhere near Kobe's playing level, and probably will never be close. Until Dwyane puts up a 28-6-5 season, he's not close. So, my point is...<font color="Purple">Shaq (1999-2001), Kobe, Phil</font> > <font color="Red">Shaq (present), Wade, Van Gundy</font>. There's no reason to argue it. Don't be so quick to step on the Lakers, when the Heat are the ones that are overrated right now. I'm done with the debate...I really doubt anyone can come in here and disprove any points I have made. Good luck Heat, I actually cheered for you guys last year and wanted you to be in the Finals, but now...because of Shaq...I really don't wanna see you make the playoffs. Either way, good luck.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post"> So, my point is...Shaq, Kobe, Phil > Shaq, Wade, Van Gundy. There's no reason to argue it. Don't be so quick to step on the Lakers, when the Heat are the ones that are overrated right now.</div> Pretty much in agreement here. Shaq, Kobe, Phil won three championships in five years. I doubt Shaq, Wade, Van Gundy will win more than two, maybe only one. The league is now pretty wide open, since the mighty Lakers no longer are the clear favorite. I believe San Antonio has a leg up on everyone, but their advantage is nowhere near that of the recent Laker dynasty. About five or six teams right now have a realistic chance to win the championship. Then again, if you asked the same question last year at this time, I wouldn't have picked Detroit, but then I didn't know they would trade for Rasheed during the season. Oh yeh, I like Van Gundy. I think he's a pretty good coach, but I hope Riley lets him do his job. He did great last year considering they had a center like Grant.
Ok now who's gonna play center for your Lakers realdealbneal? oh well I respect ur opinions cuz I know you gave them "long thoughts" Here I give you and the Lakers the victory. The meaningless victory on "internet"
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting WadeDynasty:</div><div class="quote_post">Ok now who's gonna play center for your Lakers realdealbneal? oh well I respect ur opinions cuz I know you gave them "long thoughts" Here I give you and the Lakers the victory. The meaningless victory on "internet" </div> Rasho Nesterovic is the center for the Spurs. Ervin Johnson/Michael Olowokandi is the center for the Wolves. I think what we've needed all along is a strong power forward (Malone) and a center who wants to pass, not score (Divac, hopefully...just if he was younger). Think Chicago Bulls...Jordan/Pippen (SG/SF) and Longley/Perdue....these centers didn't wanna score.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post">Rasho Nesterovic is the center for the Spurs. Ervin Johnson/Michael Olowokandi is the center for the Wolves. I think what we've needed all along is a strong power forward (Malone) and a center who wants to pass, not score (Divac, hopefully...just if he was younger). Think Chicago Bulls...Jordan/Pippen (SG/SF) and Longley/Perdue....these centers didn't wanna score.</div> Well so what's ur point? Who's center for Lakers?
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">For the Heat to win the championship, they are going to first have to get into the playoffs. That means avoiding injuries to Shaq and/or Wade. Considering both were injured last year, it'll be tough to do this...and if ONE gets hurt for a reasonable amount of time, they'll lose nearly every game in that span.</div> Actually if Wade goes down it won't be that detrimental, Damon Jones will handle the PG spot well. His defens might be very weak, but he's a very good passer, and he can hit the outside shot much better than Wade can.
