The Sonics apparently are going to sign Ibrahim Kutluay from Turkey to a two year contract. That leaves four players at shooting guard: Allen, Murray, Young, and Kutluay. Kutluay is a very good shooter and is arguably the best player in Turkey (Mehmet Okur is his only real competition). His signing could mean that the Sonics are very far apart in negotiations w/ Allen or it could mean that they don't have any interest in resigning Flip. Either way the team that you see this year will definitely not be the team that we see for years to come. http://www.eurobasket.com/TUR/TUR.asp
Very interesting. Ray recently said that the chances of him re-signing back in Seattle are about 50/50, and to be perfectly honest I really do have my doubts. I have my doubts as to whether Ray will be traded before the season, but wouldn't have a clue as to whether he'll re-sign. In Flip's case, I think he'll get his chances at point guard this season before a decision is made on whether he is retained and what sort of money we're talking.
Have just been chatting to someone about this, he seems to believe Kutluay has a two year contract on the table, on the condition he impresses Nate at training camp. He is also of the belief that there is no link between this signing and Ray Allen.
Oh, next week the Turkey team with Kutluay will visit my hometown and play against our National team in Euro Qualification game. I think that Kutluay will be a great addition to Sonics. But I will see him myself in one week and then I may have a different opinion.
Quick facts about kutluay: height:6,5 Excellent outside shooter, quite well defender, 30yrs old apprx 3,4m$ for 2 years he buy out his current contract aprx 1m$ and if he didn't sign with seattle, he would earn 4,2m$ for 2 years from ulker, istanbul club. He could get 10-15 minutes, 5-10 ppg, 1-2 asst and rebounds if he plays more and gain his confidence, he could easily score 20+ points like in the games of olympic trainig tour match between usa team
The fact that he's 30 seems to me it's more likely he's insurance for Ray rather than a replacement for Flip.
Here's what I've gleaned from other bulletin boards, don't know if it's accurate. He's a sharp-shooter, that's not in queston. He can play defense but chooses not to most of the time. He's adding to a position (SF, maybe SG) that we're already overstocked in. Sounds like a perfect addition based on the Sonics' management philosophy!
Sonics to Sign Turkish Sharpshooter <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Though it is not official, the Seattle Supersonics are expected to offer a two-year contract to Turkish swingman Ibrahim Kutluay. Mr. Kutluay, who just turned 30 years of age, is expected to sign a contract worth $3.36 million. Labeled as one dimensional many NBA critics are not high on his overall game. "He's one of the five best shooters in Europe," said one NBA coach, who asked not to be identified. "But defense? I think he can spell the first four letters." The Sonics will be looking to Mr. Kutluay to fill some of the shooting void left by the departure of Brent Barry.</div> Full Story
Honestly this signing only seems to be your replacement for Bones in terms of getting another shooter.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AllNet:</div><div class="quote_post">Honestly this signing only seems to be your replacement for Bones in terms of getting another shooter.</div> That seems logical, although I don't think we're really in need of another shooter even with the loss of Barry and Frahm.
It's this simple: Trade ray, and this was an excellent signing. He would get minutes with Flip, Young, and AD at sg. lewis+daniels+1st round pick for Carter? Allen+1st for Brand?
If I'm trading Ray, there's no way I'm adding a first round pick too unless I'm getting someone like Duncan, or KG. Ray enough would be sufficient to land Carter if he wanted to come to Seattle, not sure about Brand. As for Kutluay, he seems to be almost like a movie star in Turkey; dating models, appearing on billboards and the like.
give me a break who will we get with that first? another young, up and coming player? TRADE THE PICK, WIN RIGHT NOW. If we got brand or jermaine oneal back, that pick would be up in the 25+ range anyways.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting cigawutwut:</div><div class="quote_post">give me a break who will we get with that first? another young, up and coming player? TRADE THE PICK, WIN RIGHT NOW. If we got brand or jermaine oneal back, that pick would be up in the 25+ range anyways.</div> I'd give up Ray and a first rounder for JO in an absolute heartbeat. But in terms of Carter, you're not getting enough back to justify using a first rounder with Ray, considering he's just as good a player as VC. With Brand, I'd probably trade Ray for him, but a first rounder as well?For as good as his stats are and the type of player he is, he's never been a winner. Granted he's been on some bad teams, but I still wouldn't be over confident. A first rounder is dangerous to throw away when you're a team that probably won'tmake the playoffs like Seattle, because it could be anything at all. You'd hate to trade it wthout improving and then watching it become a top five pick. Off-Topic: My PC is being fixed fellas, so won't be able to get the last two installments of the All-Time Sonics threads up for a few days.
allen and a first for brand wouldn't be that great of a trade IF WE DIDN'T HAVE FLIP MURRAY. If it was Antonio Daniels, then maybe. But Flip is younger and lets face it he has more baIIs then Allen. Now Ibo can spot up as well as Lewis and Radmanovic when Brand draws double teams. Who did the Clippers have, Maggete? Richardson? The trade also works good for LA cuz they have wilcox and seattle would be a more effective team surrounding brand.
the clips wouldnt take ray on...not with his contract. and in regards to the allen for carter swap, that some said they wouldnt toss a 1st rounder in as well.....i'm not so sure about that. Maybe allen is as good as carter...i dont personally think so, but its close. But lets say he is. How many more tickets, jerseys and hats will the sonics sell with carter on the team rather than ray? My point exaclty. Carter is still one of the top 5 fan drawers in the league after shaq, LBJ, kobe maybe Yao. Also you have to think that carter's locked in long term at set money...allen isnt secured AND he wants more money than carters being paid AND in a straight up swap for VC, the raps run the risk of loosing allen to free agency after just a year. Besides...Ray's 2 years older. I think a carter for ray and 1st would be a good deal. But i'd be hesitent as a raptor fan to trade straight up.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 02civic:</div><div class="quote_post">the clips wouldnt take ray on...not with his contract. and in regards to the allen for carter swap, that some said they wouldnt toss a 1st rounder in as well.....i'm not so sure about that. Maybe allen is as good as carter...i dont personally think so, but its close. But lets say he is. How many more tickets, jerseys and hats will the sonics sell with carter on the team rather than ray? My point exaclty. Carter is still one of the top 5 fan drawers in the league after shaq, LBJ, kobe maybe Yao. Also you have to think that carter's locked in long term at set money...allen isnt secured AND he wants more money than carters being paid AND in a straight up swap for VC, the raps run the risk of loosing allen to free agency after just a year. Besides...Ray's 2 years older. I think a carter for ray and 1st would be a good deal. But i'd be hesitent as a raptor fan to trade straight up.</div> All very relevant, and Seattle is a team that really needs a boost in terms of a legitimate Washington fanbase. However, with the Sonics likely headedtoward the lottery, I'd be reluctant to trade that first rounder unless it's top 10 protected. That would easily get it done, but even then I'd try and work it as a multiple player deal and attempt to land Donyell Marshall with VC. But, as a Sonics fan talking, for all Carter's talent, Ray has produced at least as much, arguably more in his time with Seattle as Carter has in that time with the Raptors. I'm not even close to being convinced Carter would better Ray's output on the court, and who knows if the local fans would embrace him. As far as his contract situation goes, after his comments on Toronto as a city toplay basketball in, I don't think you'd have any troubles getting him to agree to a sign and trade. As far as Carter's value goes, unless they try to go for young players (hard with his deal) as a look to the future, Ray Allen would be the best they could get. No doubt he has talent, but he also has a reputation for being soft and injury prone, and not many teams would be prepared to trade away a player of Ray's standing, and throw in a first round pick as well, particularly for a player who's made it know he wants out. Just my two cents anyway, thanks for your imput.
i know what your saying and it makes sense. My thinking is that TO could go several directions with VC. B. Davis wants out, Peja wants out, the Pacers dont want Artest...so i think there are things that could be done. I'd agree to a vince for ray allen and a 1st rounder top 10 protected in 2005, but unprotected in 2006.
Does Kutluay's signing mean that Dave Young is the odd man out in terms of a roster spot? We have 13 guaranteed contracts and that is what traditionally the Sonics have carried. Dave's contract is not guaranteed, so I'm concerned that he might not make our opening day roster. I know that nobody knows what Dave is capable of but I just hope that he gets a fair chance to make the team. Considering that he wasn't given minutes in the summer league and that immediately after his signing the Sonics signed another two guard, I'm just wondering what plans the Sonics have for him. If the Sonics thought enough of him to trade Andre Emmitt and not invite Damien Wilkins to training camp, they should think enough of him to really give him a chance to make the opening roster--not just sign him to a non guaranteed contract to save face for their scouting department.
