<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Banks:</div><div class="quote_post">You're also comparing Ron Artest to Tracy McGrady. Do these guys even compare? Tracy McGrady offensive game is so smooth and dominating on a consistant basis. He's been able to score around 30 PPG for the past 2 season, with apparently only Tyronne Lue on his team. If that's not impressive, I don't know what is.</div> True, but McGrady's defense isn't the best. Ron Artest has the best defense in the NBA, and still puts up above-average numbers offensively. Other defenders, such as Bowen and Prince, don't do that. McGrady may be a little more important to a team, but not by much. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Banks:</div><div class="quote_post">If you actually watched the Finals you would've seen that Shaq was tripled and doubled team everytime down court or when he had the ball and stil managed to convert 63% of his FG's. Also, if you reallly did watch it, you would of seen atleast 2 players boxing out Shaq almost everytime a shot went up because he was the only on the team that could rebound with Karl Malone injured.</div> Shaq wasn't the one being double-teamed. That was Kobe. The Pistons found the best way to defeat the triangle...cover Kobe with two guys, man Shaq with one, but put the PF in the right spot so he can intercept passes from Kobe to Shaq. Sheed was able to pull away from the PF long enough to do that, since Malone was hurt. Kobe couldn't pass to Shaq, and the Lakers lost. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Banks:</div><div class="quote_post">Jason Kidd will not become a bench warmer. He's a point guard unlike the other players you listed. It's very hard to keep a competitive <u>leader</u> like him, that anchors a team on the bench. Even if he's not 100% healthy, if he's close to it, he'll play and he'll make a difference just like he did this past playoffs, getting the Nets past the first round and to a game 7 in the 2nd round while playing injured.</div> Kidd will more than likely be traded away before he becomes a bench player. He'll be posting triple-doubles still. However, if he was a scoring PG, he would be having trouble...but he's not.
[quote name='realdealbneal']True, but McGrady's defense isn't the best. Ron Artest has the best defense in the NBA, and still puts up above-average numbers offensively. Other defenders, such as Bowen and Prince, don't do that. McGrady may be a little more important to a team, but not by much. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Shaq wasn't the one being double-teamed. That was Kobe. The Pistons found the best way to defeat the triangle...cover Kobe with two guys, man Shaq with one, but put the PF in the right spot so he can intercept passes from Kobe to Shaq. Sheed was able to pull away from the PF long enough to do that, since Malone was hurt. Kobe couldn't pass to Shaq, and the Lakers lost. </div> Shaq dominated the Pistons none the less. When he got the ball in the first few games, he was dominating and the Pistons couldn't stop him. I admit the Pistons made some adjustments to attempt to stop Shaq, but the Lakers really hurt themselves when they didnt pass to Shaq when he had the chance to score. You can see saying to Kobe and others "Pass the f---king ball". <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Kidd will more than likely be traded away before he becomes a bench player. He'll be posting triple-doubles still. However, if he was a scoring PG, he would be having trouble...but he's not.</div> Either the way you imply it, Kidd won't be on the bench for the Nets or any team as a bench warmer. Trading him is a possibility, but when he's healthy, he won't be on the bench. Anyways i gtg, ill comment tmw
When Pierce can prove that he can lead a successful team he will get the props of a Jason Kidd, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett. Until then, he's just another good NBA player.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Banks:</div><div class="quote_post"><u>1.)</u>Basically what you're saying is that Rebounds aren't relevent to how good a player is? So I guess Ben Wallace is only good for Rebounding. Iverson can get like 6 assists, but turns the ball over about 4 times. Give me a break. Dirk is much more versitile than AI and has a better inside out game, one of the best games in the league. <u>2.)</u>Why is everything Stats to you? Tyronnue Lue is the next best player on his team? What's all this BS You're posting. I never knew Lue was better than Howard, Gooden, Giricek and Stevenson. I'm so sorry. <u>3.)</u>When did AI Take his teams to the finals? When did he win MVP? In 2001 Buddy. Things have changed ALOT since then. Back then he was a top 5 player and the MVP. Now, he's not reliable because his body has warn down, and his shooting has gotting horrendous. Stop living in the past kid. <u>4.)</u>You're also comparing Ron Artest to Tracy McGrady. Do these guys even compare? Tracy McGrady offensive game is so smooth and dominating on a consistant basis. He's been able to score around 30 PPG for the past 2 season, with apparently only Tyronne Lue on his team. If that's not impressive, I don't know what is. <u>5.)</u>Also on Shaq and AI, you're twisting words. AI Is small. Shaq's big. AI's quickness is very key to his game, and since he's been banged up for 8 years and injured, its taking a toll on him, and it will, effect his game and his endurance. AI Won't be able to produce like he's doing now for much longer, where as Shaq can do so at a consistant pace until he's around 35. By the time AI's 35, his body will be too slow, and too banged up, taking a big part of his game away. You're making way too many unrealistic assumptions <u>6.)</u>Notice how I said, he's <u>approaching </u> his 9th year, and his 30th birthday. <u>7.)</u>Again your making too many assumptions. I'm really starting to think that you can predict the future. Notice how you said AI p<u>lans</u>, on past the 2008 olympics. Well many coaches plan on winning a championship, but nobody knows that that's gonna happen to them. AI's body is getting worse after each season, and come 2008, his body will be in much worse condition. He'll also be much slower, because it comes with age. His game will no doubt, be much different 4 years from now. <u>8.)</u>If you actually watched the Finals you would've seen that Shaq was tripled and doubled team everytime down court or when he had the ball and stil managed to convert 63% of his FG's. Also, if you reallly did watch it, you would of seen atleast 2 players boxing out Shaq almost everytime a shot went up because he was the only on the team that could rebound with Karl Malone injured. <u>9.)</u>Jason Kidd's near future uncertain yet, but he will play next year. Chris Webbers injury was much worse than Kidds injury, and he still managed to play after the all-star break and put up good numbers. <u>10.)</u>Jason Kidd will not become a bench warmer. He's a point guard unlike the other players you listed. It's very hard to keep a competitive <u>leader</u> like him, that anchors a team on the bench. Even if he's not 100% healthy, if he's close to it, he'll play and he'll make a difference just like he did this past playoffs, getting the Nets past the first round and to a game 7 in the 2nd round while playing injured. <u>11.)</u>Next time, try making sense. I don't know where you got the idea that I think playing hurt doesn't matter... <u>12.)</u>Unlike Malone and MJ, at 29, AI has missed a good perecentage of his games. No doubt that he's a warrior, but a body of his size can only take so much of a beating. You have to realise that playing 82 games a year, with 41 MPG for 8 years is <u>alot</u> of beating. Karl Malone and MJ were bigger than him, and their competition were equal to their size or smaller, unlike AI, that's why they were able to play as effective for so long. <u>13.)</u>Maybe if you didn't sugar coat AI in every comment you say, I wouldn't get that idea.</div> <u>1.)</u> No thats not what Im sayin....You said Dirk grabs more boards and I said that really doesnt matter and it doesnt matter that much....You have to think about OVERALL GAME of each player. Ben Wallace plays Defense also and thats another thing hes good for. Dirk does not have one of the best games in the league man cmon. He scores and rebounds....him and Iverson have a totally different game because Iverson scores and dishes assists....I cant get you to think Iverson is better than Dirk and you cant get me to think Dirk is better than AI so lets get off that subject because this arguement otherwise will go on forever. <u>2.)</u> Im not really basing it on stats because I have a reason for saying Tyronn Lue. Juwan Howard is very old and only does good when Tmac is hurt...Gooden is only good for rebounding...Giricek just scores sometimes...and Stevenson was a total bust out of HSchool. Really none of them are that great. <u>3.)</u> Uhh when did Tmac take his team to the Finals? When did he get the MVP? NEVER IN HIS CAREER ACTUALLY. Tmac shot 41% last year...thats close to what Iverson shot so dont go there buddy. Maybe the past does matter sometimes because Tmac hasnt even accomplished taking a team to the Finals by himself nor has he won MVP. <u>4.)</u> I didnt compare the 2 I used Ron Artest as an example...You mentioned that Tmac can guard all 3 positions...so what..so can Artest...that aint nothin special. Thats not comparing. And 30 PPG isnt really impressive with weak players like Stevenson, Howard, Giricek, and Lue on your team. <u>5.)</u> There BOTH getting older and slower....everyone does I guess <u>6.)</u> Oh I didnt notice that...did you edit your post or something because I thought it said Iverson IS 30. <u>7.)</u> Im sure he will be in the Olympics in 2008...he said he wants to be....so im assuming he will be but im not sure...hoping. <u>8.)</u> If Shaq is the most dominant player in the NBA he should be able to rebound over 10 rebounds every game no matter what. Well duh hes a C he should have a high FG%...most all of them do unless your Shawn Bradley. <u>9.)</u> I agree...you just never know if JKidd will play next year tho...we'll have to see. <u>10.)</u> Maybe is all I have to say for what you wrote...It all just depends man...you never know really because alot of ppl said Mashburn and Hill would be back in months but look at them. <u>11.)</u> Exactly it does lol...I think I made sense what I said <u>12.)</u> True..but like you said AI is a warrior...He may be able to play along time like MJ and Malone...but who knows...maybe or maybe not. <u>13.)</u> I just try to give good explanations for what I say about Iverson because hes my favorite player obviously lol I seriously think this arguement will go on forever...we might as well end this right now Banks lol....Its a Tie
People are saying all kinds of stupid stuff in here.... As for Tmac's D, I'll say it again, he was the lone star. Don't compare his D to Kobe's, because anyone with any sense knows that Shaq DID help Kobe's D. Whereas Tmac had Juwan Howard and Drew Gooden backing him up....it's not a fair comparison. Also, Tmac had to handle the ball like a pg (because Lue is incapable of doing this), had to touch the ball on every possesion, and then guard the best player. It seemed like Kobe wanted the ball a lot more than he really did, because people felt that Shaq should have gotten more touches. As far as comparing AI to Dirk, stop it, just stop it right now. Dirk is better than AI, there is no comparion. Dirk does not play the way that he should for his size, but he FITS into the Mavs offense. AI doesn't fit into the offense, he just runs around doing what he wants to. AI treats games like they are being played on concrete at Rucker, and as great as he may be, cannot compare to Dirk.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting hagrid:</div><div class="quote_post"> There's more to OB than win/losses with the C's. People put him up on a pedestal because the team got the the ECF under him, after struggling the years before.</div> Personally I judge coaches on wins and losses. The Celtics improved their record dramatically once Rick Pitino left the team. The first full season under OB they went to the Eastern Conference Finals and the following year they were able to upset the Pacers in the first round and make it to the Eastern Conference Semifinals w/o a point guard. I think that is a testament to OB's coaching ability. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> The problem is, the coaching wasn't his. The defensive presence that the team developed was the brainchild of Dick Harter. OB's contribution: Fronting the post, which even Harter disagreed with, as a fundamental flaw. The rest of it was just extreme conditioning so they could play defense all game and an above average press, which forced turnouvers.</div> A smart head coach surrounds himself w/ excellent assistants. You can't knock OB b/c Dick Harter was the brains behind their defensive strategy. I'm not a fan of fronting the post either, but it forced the post players to work hard defensively, something that most NBA post players don't do. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> The offense, was 2 guys: AW and PP. OB's idea of coaching was to tell those 2 guys they should be looking to score on every possession and let them account for over 50% of the teams offense over his coaching tenure. Come the playoffs, that offensive strategy was shown for what it was and the Nets embarrassed the C's the second year. Because none of the surrounding players were developed, the team had no chance in the larger scope of things.</div> OB gave AW and PP the ultimate freedom offensively, provided that they worked extremely hard defensively. Granted the shot selection of both of them at times were horrible, but this strategy allowed the Celtics to be amongst the top half in the league in scoring whereas a traditional offense would have made the Celtics one of the worst scoring teams in the league. Besides AW and PP who else deserved a lot of touches? OB didn't restrict anyone offensively, he just allowed the more talented players to play to their strengths. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Add to all that, the trades and drafts that happened during his tenure, which he asked for, which Wallace should have known better than to pull the trigger on, which usually ended up mortgaging the future. (aka: JJ et al for Rogers and Delk)</div> OB was firmly against the trade of Kenny Anderson, Vitaly Potapenko, and Joseph Forte to the Sonics for Vin Baker and Shammond Williams. In 2002-2003 they won a first round playoff series without a point guard, a center, or a scoring small forward. OB was against trading Walker and Delk to Dallas for Welsh, LaFrentz, and Chris Mills. OB was against trading Eric Williams, Tony Battie, and Kedrick Brown for Ricky Davis, Chris Mihm, and Michael Stewart. OB isn't concerned about playing inexperience players b/c he is more concerned about keeping his job. Coaches don't get paid to develop players. Coaches get paid to win games. OB did that in Boston and I seriously doubt that the Celtics will have as much success as they had under O'Brien in the near future.
Just a question relating Paul Pierce...do you guys think he'll live up to his ranking, or will he do worse this year? I don't mean to use the word "worse" but how about...less? The rankings, the way I see it, are based on how well they did last year...so will he prove to be ranked 13, or better, now with the added talent that the Celtics have?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jurassic:</div><div class="quote_post">As far as comparing AI to Dirk, stop it, just stop it right now. <u>Dirk is better than AI,</u>there is no comparion. Dirk does not play the way that he should for his size, but he FITS into the Mavs offense. AI doesn't fit into the offense, he just runs around doing what he wants to. AI treats games like they are being played on concrete at Rucker, and as great as he may be, cannot compare to Dirk.</div> Dirk Nowitzki: Career Averages: 20.4 ppg, 8.30 rpg, 2.4 apg Awards: Allstar x 3 = 7.7 ppg, 3.00 rpg, 1.7 apg 2001 All-NBA Third Team 2002 All-NBA Second Team 2003 All-NBA Second Team LOL wow what a great superstar...... :thumbsdow :thumbsdow :thumbsdow Allen Iverson: Career Averages: 27.0 ppg, 4.10 rpg, 5.7 apg Awards: Allstar x 5 = 18.8 ppg, 2.80 rpg, 7.0 apg Scored 40 points in 5 straight games in April 1997 to set an NBA rookie record Set the Sixers all-time rookie record with 1,787 points NBA Rookie of the Year 1999 All-NBA First Team 2001 All-NBA First Team 2000 All-NBA Second Team 2002 All-NBA Second Team 2003 All-NBA Second Team MVP of the 2001 All-Star Game 2000-2001 Most Valuable Player of the NBA leading the league in scoring (31.1 ppg) and in steals (2.51 spg) 10th fastest player to reach 14,000 points on Jan. 23, 2004 Named an Eastern All-Star starter for his 5th year 5th time in a row Hmmm.....Iverson looks better to me at least
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm not a fan of fronting the post either, but it forced the post players to work hard defensively, something that most NBA post players don't do. </div> Most Celtic fans had a stiff neck from watching over the top lobs and dunks against us. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">OB gave AW and PP the ultimate freedom offensively, provided that they worked extremely hard defensively </div> I'm going to provide the following premise before saying what I'm going to say in response to that comment: I was a fan of Walker, when he was in Boston. I thought he had alot more talent than he used. With that said, allow me to let you in on the fact that up until he left Boston, the last time Antoine Walker "worked extremely hard defensively" was at the University of Kentucky. He put forth an average effort on defense, at best. In fact, he put more effort into arguing with the refs about calls he thought he was entitled to, than he ever did hustling to get back to play defense. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">OB was firmly against trading Kenny Anderson, Vitaly Potapenko, and Joseph Forte to the Sonics for Vin Baker and Shammond Williams.</div> Anyone, including O'Brien who tells you he didn't want Forte gone is a bold faced liar. OB loathed the fact that he didn't have a say in drafting Forte. OB coveted Shammond Williams to replace the aging Kenny Anderson (whom OB had a chance to get back and passed on) and was in favor of getting the former all-star Baker. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">OB was against trading Walker and Delk to Dallas for Welsh, LaFrentz, and Chris Mills.</div> He didn't have a choice on that one. After Walker sat down with Ainge and refused to change his playing style for the betterment of the team (along with his contract demand of a max contract after getting manhandled by KMart in the playoffs), he was leaving Boston, with OB's consent or not. It was the best deal that could be had at the time, in Ainge's opinion. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">OB was against trading Eric Williams, Tony Battie, and Kedrick Brown for Ricky Davis, Chris Mihm, and Michael Stewart.</div> Part of his mindless devotion to marginal veteran players. Players coincidentally, which your comments seemed to have marginalized thier impact/abilities anyways. Williams was out of favor in Cleveland by the all-star break. Battie was injured, AGAIN. Kedrick Brown (aka Glass Ankles) was injured again also and is now a walking endorsement for Krispy Kreme. Ricky Davis will be more of an impact player for Boston than the assembled three combined. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I seriously doubt that the Celtics will have as much success as they had under O'Brien in the near future.</div> Doubt away, it's your right. IMO, we'll be back next year and likely the second round of the playoffs this season. Next time around we'll be there with a complete team at all positions that can legitimately contend for a championship, rather than with the gimmicky OB 3ball.
The reason why I said that it made the post work harder was b/c it is very difficult to effectively front the post and be able to trap another player off of fronting if the ball side guard gets beat. This strain puts a great attention to detail on the defensive end of the floor and causes a team to be more focus defensively. Defense is a mentality and even though there are huge holes when you consistently front the post, it puts a defense in an aggressive mind state. Boston was one of the leaders in field goal percentage defense during OB's regime so I'm not sure why you are harping on their defensive defficiencies. Antione Walker was overmatched from a physical stand point by most power forwards in the NBA. It may have looked as though he was giving a complimentary effort but considering how many minutes he logged against bigger more physical post players, I think that his defensive contributions were understated. I apologize for not being clearer in my earlier post. OB did not want to take on Vin Baker's contract while also giving up his only legitamate point guard. I don't think that he loss sleep over the departure of Forte, Potapenko, Kedrick Brown, or Tony Delk. I do think that he was upset about losing Walker, Williams, Battie, and Anderson. I'm a big fan of Ricky Davis and I think that his acquisition was a very good one for the Celtics. That, hiring Doc Rivers, and the Al Jefferson draft pick are probably the only good decisions that Danny Ainge has made. Danny Ainge doesn't have a vision, he has an ego. He just wants things to be done his way. How else can you explain giving up on your first round draft pick of 2003 in order to get an aging Payton when you are preaching to your fan base that your draft selections will be the cornerstone of your rebuilding process. I know that Banks returned but still, why draft him in the first place if you are willing to trade him for a 36 year old point guard? What exactly is Danny Ainge's vision? Get rid of everyone not named Pierce who may have allegiance to Jim O'Brien? He said that OB style of coaching could never bring a championship back to Boston. He was absolutely right, b/c Boston had limited talent. But OB played the cards he was dealt and played them well. He had the respect of his players and the ire of his bosses. Ainge's decision making has made the Celtics irrelevant. It's easy to promise the dream of a championship during a rebuilding period b/c it gives you more time to get excuses ready. Taking on the contracts of Raef LaFrentz, Ricky Davis, and keeping three first round draft picks doesn't do well from a salary cap perspective either. The best decision that Ainge could make is to return to broadcasting b/c he doesn't have a clue as to how to run a franchise.
Your reservations about Ainge are probably well founded and certainly shared, even by Celtics fans. I'm giving him leadway to get things right, after in my estimation (again, my estimation) things being so wrong for so long. He's made alot of controversial moves, theres no doubt about that. I think some of them will pay off. I think signing Googs was a mistake, but a marginal one. I wasn't initially happy with the Walker trade, but time has proven Ainge right on that one, as well as once I learned what transpired in the sit downs, I wanted him gone myself. Lafrentz better make some kind of contribution, because otherwise, his contract essentially represents a replacement of the recently removed albatross contract that we just got rid of in Baker. I really like our youth coming in though. They'll take another year to become integral parts of the team, but I think Kendrick Perkins, will make some noise behind what we hope is a continually improving Mark Blount this year. Jefferson is going to be very good. He'll take most of this year to get used to being able to play NBA defense, but his offense is already better than most of the draft picks coming out this year, IMO. Speaking of defense, Tony Allen, even according to the guys at Hoops Gym in Chicago( Walker, MJ, etc.) is ready to play NBA level defense now. I think the quote coming out of summer workouts was that "no one wanted him to guard them". He's also a 4 year player coming out of OK State, who played well in the NCAA Tourney. I think he's going to make the log jam at the wing positions even more difficult for Doc to figure out playing time. Assuming GP plays (and I think he'll report Tuesday, after media day is over) we've got someone to handle the ball, who will work well in the uptempo offense, which will mean that PP doesn't have to handle the ball almost every possession. That will increase his shooting %, decrease his turnovers, etc. Ricky Davis worked out all summer and reported to camp early. That continues to represent positive signs from RD. LaFrentz is healthy, although will likely continue to play in some pain this season and should help the team considerably (I'm not talking All-Star here, just something along the lines of 15 ppg). The jury is still out on what the contribution of Jiri Welsh will be this season. By most accounts, he played better than expected last year and that was with a thumb injury. He's one of those guys that does everything well, but nothing excellent. Good fundamentals. He's the type of guy you need to win championships. Throw in the fact that Waltah should, in all likelyhood, go back to being a super sub (playing short time instead of 25+ mins), rather than being the starting PF. I'll consider that addition through subtraction, despite the fact that as Tommy says: I Love Waltah! The team succeeded in getting to the playoffs last year, despite the fact that John Carroll did little in the way of coaching, but rather coasting(somewhat understandable given that the team seemed a mess, but I can't condone not at least trying). Doc has some question marks surrounding him as well, but at least he's going to put forth effort. It's fair to take my enthusiasm for this next 2 (- 3) years with a grain of salt. After all, I am a Celtics fan. However, I didn't like alot of what was going on during OB's and the previous tenures, yet tried to remain optimistic but realistic. I like most of what's gone on recently and of course, will try to remain optimistic but realistic. Thanks for sharing your thoughts Iron Shiek :thumbsup:
Apparently I was wrong about when he's going to report though. Herald is reporting that he'll be at media day today.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting hagrid:</div><div class="quote_post">Kedrick Brown (aka Glass Ankles) was injured again also and is now a walking endorsement for Krispy Kreme.</div> Hagrid, I share your optimistic view of the Celtics' season, but don't be dissing Krispy Kreme like that.
^^LOL. Don't think of it as a diss. Think of Krispy Kreme's being so tempting and delicious to him that he was willing to jeopardize (and apparently spend) his NBA Millions shoveling them down en mass.
[quote name='TheAnswerIsAi3']<u>1.)</u> No thats not what Im sayin....You said Dirk grabs more boards and I said that really doesnt matter and it doesnt matter that much....You have to think about OVERALL GAME of each player. Ben Wallace plays Defense also and thats another thing hes good for. Dirk does not have one of the best games in the league man cmon. He scores and rebounds....him and Iverson have a totally different game because Iverson scores and dishes assists....I cant get you to think Iverson is better than Dirk and you cant get me to think Dirk is better than AI so lets get off that subject because this arguement otherwise will go on forever. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"><u>2.)</u> Im not really basing it on stats because I have a reason for saying Tyronn Lue. Juwan Howard is very old and only does good when Tmac is hurt...Gooden is only good for rebounding...Giricek just scores sometimes...and Stevenson was a total bust out of HSchool. Really none of them are that great.</div> 31 Is very old? So in 2 years I guess AI would be considering very old. Webber, Houston, Finley, Shaq, Kidd, Sprewell, Jalen Rose, Donyell Marshall, Rasheed Wallace, Ben Wallace, are all around the same age and they're still very good. 17 PPG and 7 RPG from Juwan Howard is much better than anything you can get from Lue. Stevenson and Giricek are still much better than anything you can get out of Lue, because he's too short to guard any posistion, and they're better scorers. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"><u>3.)</u> Uhh when did Tmac take his team to the Finals? When did he get the MVP? NEVER IN HIS CAREER ACTUALLY. Tmac shot 41% last year...thats close to what Iverson shot so dont go there buddy. Maybe the past does matter sometimes because Tmac hasnt even accomplished taking a team to the Finals by himself nor has he won MVP. </div> We're talking about whats going on right now. Not what AI did 3, 4 years ago. No, T-Mac has not brought his team to the Finals, but he is a more complete player right now than AI is. If we're comparing the 2 from 3 years ago, no doubt, I would consider AI the better player, but right now its totally different. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"><u>4.)</u> I didnt compare the 2 I used Ron Artest as an example...You mentioned that Tmac can guard all 3 positions...so what..so can Artest...that aint nothin special. Thats not comparing. And 30 PPG isnt really impressive with weak players like Stevenson, Howard, Giricek, and Lue on your team.</div> Artest can guard 3 posistions and look how much of a better he is because of that. AI can't even guard one posistion good. T-Mac can guard all 3 posistions, but not like Artest, but he's still a good defender. T-Mac scores 30 points with consistantcy while making his team better. T-Mac has no real offensive weapons on his team except for Howard. Last year T-Mac's season was actually an off year IMO, because his shooting % was low, and the mid season trades and injuries to key players, including himself, never really got them going. Im not making excuses for him , but the fact is when he does score, he's doing it by making his team better. When AI scores, its a relief because he's taking too many shots and making a poor % of them, which actually takes away from his team. <u>6.)</u> Oh I didnt notice that...did you edit your post or something because I thought it said Iverson IS 30. No, if I did edit my post you would've seen that scripted under neath wants to be....so im assuming he will be but im not sure...hoping. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"><u>8.)</u> If Shaq is the most dominant player in the NBA he should be able to rebound over 10 rebounds every game no matter what. Well duh hes a C he should have a high FG%...most all of them do unless your Shawn Bradley.</div> That's not really the case. Just because you're a center doesn't automatically a 50% FG shooter, you have to work very hard for that. And to have a career 58% FG, at a consistant pace for 11 years is extremely hard to do. It's also really hard for you to get rebounds when you're team has nobody else that can rebound, making you, the automatic target to box out. However, the Pistons did play good defense. They weren't actually missing much, so that limited Shaq's rebounds as well. Can't make many excuses for that.
