It's interesting how lakers would want to sign a player whom their fans called flopper for all these years. Ofcourse! It's because they desperately needed a big man.Well I'm not hating on Lakers, but I feel that they aren't as strong as they were last year..primarily because Kobe's bodyguard in the court: the 9 time9 time 9time 9 time 9time 9 time 9 time 9 time 9 time ALL STAR does not compare to Vlade . The lakers are one or two ratings down this year. But how do you guys think Kobe will fare without Shaq? I feel they will still make the playoffs because Vlade will use his experience to pull his old tricks out of his beard. Odom is a great player but who picked Walton to play for the NBA. Am i the only one who thinks that he sucks?
Walton pulled the Lakers out of the badlands in Game 2 of the Finals. He's a great passer with really good court awareness. He doesn't shoot well (yet) but his defense isn't so bad. Great determination...and a crowd favorite...we should keep him. Last year, the Lakers had Kobe and Shaq...supposedly one of the best duos of all time. Also, they had Malone and Payton...yet, a Malone coming off a 40+ game injury and a Gary Payton that played terrible in the playoffs. His understanding of the triangle (which was no understanding) actually hurt the Lakers. Then consider Devean George, who tossed up more threes than anyone else on the team, and was proven to be inconsistent all year long. On the bench, you had Medvedenko backing up Shaq...who's actually a PF with absolutely NO defense whatsoever. The power forward backup? Medvedenko. Walton, Rush and Fisher highlighted our bench, actually...yet shot inconsistently all year long. Now, we have Kobe, Odom, and Butler...along with Grant, Divac, Mihm...guys that have started previously. We still have Rush and Walton...George is on the IR (which is a good thing)...and it just looks much better than last year. Obviously, the Lakers are going to have to pass the ball to win, which I believe will happen. You just have to understand that Shaq/Kobe were not working anymore. Their chemistry was still there, but the will to actually use it wasn't because they did not want to share the ball with each other (both of them, not just Kobe). It wasn't working for two years now, and it was only going to get worse every year.
All those "skills" on O for Walton and all he can do defensively is get steals when he's double teaming. He gets exposed by big post up SFs and quick SFs. That negates his production. He can't create his own shot. He can't break a full court press. He can't play man defense.
I hope Odom and Kobe get enough support from the other new recruits such as grant/butler/divac. George of the jungle is an overpaid guy who plays well 1 night but in consistency terms he sucked. While Rush's 3's and Walton's passing ability and med won't take you far. There's no more shaq and kobe to save the laker's lackluster bench anymore.
The way I see this... Shaq < Odom, Grant, Butler, Vlade Three bigs and a good defensive SF...it puts the need for Shaq out of the Lakers' minds and also puts George out of the lineup (if he was healthy). Getting rid of Payton is even better, even if we got Atkins in return. We don't need anymore scorers, or guys that want the ball. An easy way to put this is: Shaq has been replaced by three guys who nearly beat the Pacers last year, who nearly beat the Pistons in the playoffs. Grant will play his natural position, another positive out of the deal. The Lakers also gain Vlade for free, who's the best passing center in the league...and have Mihm as another backup center (great depth now). Before, we actually had NO center to backup Shaq, at all...now we have three players that can play center (two ARE centers). If we get Malone back, I'm looking towards meeting an East team in the Finals again (and no, I'm not joking).
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post">The way I see this... Shaq < Odom, Grant, Butler, Vlade Three bigs and a good defensive SF...it puts the need for Shaq out of the Lakers' minds and also puts George out of the lineup (if he was healthy). Getting rid of Payton is even better, even if we got Atkins in return. We don't need anymore scorers, or guys that want the ball. An easy way to put this is: Shaq has been replaced by three guys who nearly beat the Pacers last year, who nearly beat the Pistons in the playoffs. Grant will play his natural position, another positive out of the deal. The Lakers also gain Vlade for free, who's the best passing center in the league...and have Mihm as another backup center (great depth now). Before, we actually had NO center to backup Shaq, at all...now we have three players that can play center (two ARE centers). If we get Malone back, I'm looking towards meeting an East team in the Finals again (and no, I'm not joking).</div>That's crazy man. Shaq is a future Hall of Famer and and one of the game's greatest players to live. Once MJ stepped down Shaq was handed the crown of the greatest player currently in the NBA. There's not a lot of players today that will live up to that title once Shaq retires. Him and MJ are two players that if you put either one in any team they will make you an instant title contender.
I think you're wrong. Shaq isn't the best player in the League right now. I think that designation belongs to KG. At times Shaq has his moments and lives up to the 'Most Dominant' moniker but on a night in,night out basis it's Garnett.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Dre:</div><div class="quote_post">I think you're wrong. Shaq isn't the best player in the League right now. I think that designation belongs to KG. At times Shaq has his moments and lives up to the 'Most Dominant' moniker but on a night in,night out basis it's Garnett.</div>Shaq is 58% from the field (#1 in the NBA, 63% against the Pistons in the Finals). KG is 49% in FG. KG took about 700 more attempts this season from the FG than Shaq and Shaq came only 3ppg behind him. KG also led in FG attempts with (#1)1,611, Shaq had 948(didn't have enough to rank in the top 50). I have a post here that explains better. In other words, because Shaq was 58% and KG was 49%, Shaq was able to keep up with KGs PPG because he was more accurate rather than having to take more shots. The only reason Shaq's PPG dropped were because he was sharing the ball more with the team. His 58% FG% (again, #1 in the NBA) shows that he is the player with the best chance of scoring. You and I may have an opinion but the numbers don't lie.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting heatfan83:</div><div class="quote_post">Shaq is 58% from the field (#1 in the NBA, 63% against the Pistons in the Finals). KG is 49% in FG. KG took about 700 more attempts this season from the FG than Shaq and Shaq came only 3ppg behind him. KG also led in FG attempts with (#1)1,611, Shaq had 948(didn't have enough to rank in the top 50). I have a post here that explains better. In other words, because Shaq was 58% and KG was 49%, Shaq was able to keep up with KGs PPG because he was more accurate rather than having to take more shots. The only reason Shaq's PPG dropped were because he was sharing the ball more with the team. His 58% FG% (again, #1 in the NBA) shows that he is the player with the best chance of scoring. You and I may have an opinion but the numbers don't lie.</div> I posted this somewhere else... In 1992-1993, Will Perdue posted a .557 FG%. Horace Grant posted a .506 FG%. Michael Jordan posted a .495 FG%. Points per game? Perdue at 5.8 PPG, Grant at 13.2 PPG, and Jordan at...32.6 PPG. Bulls won the championship. Jordan won the MVP. Bulls go down as three-peats and are called a dynasty. Field Goal percentage means little when it comes to who gets the ball. Oh, Perdue and Grant were both centers, shooting about 1-5 feet away from the hoop, by the way. Does that make them the two better options over Jordan, just because their FG% is higher? No way. Jordan carried that team, although he didn't shoot as well as the centers. Sounds like the situation in Los Angeles for the last three years. Maybe Shaq grabbed MVPs before Kobe...and dominated the LA scene until the third championship...but Kobe caught up quick. Even if Shaq led the league in scoring, Kobe still has better defense, ball-handling, speed, heart, determination...everything that Shaq doesn't have. Good thing Shaq isn't 6'7"...he would be Devean George with no three point shot.
So points per game and field goal percentage alone make you the best player in the game? KG is a better player. Being a player encompasses alot more than being able to score. KG can run the basketball team. KG is alot better defender. KG is dependable to bring his game night in and night out. He doesn't fake injuries or drag ass. KG is better in every facet of the game,he can score in more ways than 5 feet from the basket. There is no argument. KG is the better player.
KG is hands down the best right now in the NBA. He never fails the team and always gives 110% on the floor. Something Shaq does not. Everyone seems to forget that Divac was a Laker before a Queen. I've never been a big fan of Divac, but Im a huge fan of the Lakers and he's on our roster now. So GO DIVAC! FLOP great against Shaq and the HEAT come December.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting trenchteam:</div><div class="quote_post"> Everyone seems to forget that Divac was a Laker before a Queen. I've never been a big fan of Divac, but Im a huge fan of the Lakers and he's on our roster now. So GO DIVAC! FLOP great against Shaq and the HEAT come December.</div> Well, everyone also needs to remember that the fans don't choose who's on the Lakers, either. I'm sure the Laker organization didn't like the way they had to part with Divac, even though they picked up Kobe Bryant...so having him back in LA is a good thing. I never really liked him in Sac-town, and I never really watched him play while he was in LA...but hopefully his passing can help us out alot...yeah, his flopping also.
realdeal, Kobe in the Finals didn't shoot a solid 49% like Jordan did, it was more like 38%. When there is a guy going 63% and your team is losing, the logic of basketball says that the player with the better chance of scoring should make more attempts than everyone. For the Lakers, Kobe(38%-FG and a horrible 17%-3PT) was the primary option, and Shaq(63%-FG) was the secondary option. There is something wrong with that offense. BTW, all those ppl you listed made like 5-10ppg so there FG% wasn't proven like Shaq or MJs. dre, KG is arguably a better player in the regular season but there isn't a better player that steps up in the playoffs. KG is a player who busts is a$$ more but Shaq doesn't have to do much to dominate and win. When he does put in effort though he is practically unstoppable.
realdeal, Kobe in the Finals didn't shoot a solid 49% like Jordan did, it was more like 38%. When there is a guy going 63% and your team is losing, the logic of basketball says that the player with the better chance of scoring should make more attempts than everyone. For the Lakers, Kobe(38%-FG and a horrible 17%-3PT) was the primary option, and Shaq(63%-FG) was the secondary option. There is something wrong with that offense. BTW, all those ppl you listed made like 5-10ppg so there FG% wasn't proven like Shaq or MJs. dre, KG is arguably a better player in the regular season but there isn't a better player that steps up in the playoffs. KG is a player who busts is a$$ more but Shaq doesn't have to do much to dominate and win. When he does put in effort he is practically unstoppable. The reason he stopped putting in effort for the Lakers was because they were treating him like he wasn't the main reason for winning. So that might be bad on his part but he still is a better player than KG when he actually tries and when it actually matters. Shaq is gonna suprise a lot of ppl this because he's gonna start showing that he never lost his touch to begin with.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting heatfan83:</div><div class="quote_post">realdeal, Kobe in the Finals didn't shoot a solid 49% like Jordan did, it was more like 38%. When there is a guy going 63% and your team is losing, the logic of basketball says that the player with the better chance of scoring should make more attempts than everyone. For the Lakers, Kobe(38%-FG and a horrible 17%-3PT) was the primary option, and Shaq(63%-FG) was the secondary option. There is something wrong with that offense. BTW, all those ppl you listed made like 5-10ppg so there FG% wasn't proven like Shaq or MJs. dre, KG is arguably a better player in the regular season but there isn't a better player that steps up in the playoffs. KG is a player who busts is a$$ more but Shaq doesn't have to do much to dominate and win. When he does put in effort he is practically unstoppable.</div> Haha...man, I could go find others that score more, yet are in the same position as Shaq/Kobe. I'm just too tired right now. Point is...Shaq didn't do anything on defense. I'm giving Shaq more credit now than anything I've ever given him before...yes, he was the biggest part of ONE championship. In the second one, Kobe put in 28 PPG and was hot that year, yet Shaq did lead the Lakers (not that much of a difference between the two players). However, in the third championship...Shaq started to get lazy...and by the time the smoke cleared these last two years, he became a terrible defensive player against small point guards driving the lane, and was letting guys like Michael Olowokandi dunk on him. Not good for someone who is supposed to be the best center of all time. Plus, his NBA Finals performances were against starters Todd MacCulloch and Rik Smits (whooooooaaa). Dikembe Mutombo was his matchup against the Sixers, but Mutombo was too skinny to contain Shaq...way too skinny. Now, if the three championships were won with Shaq averaging the 30-40 points he did, going up against Jermaine O'Neal, Ben Wallace and Yao Ming...or Duncan...I'd be impressed. By the way...Shaq in his prime and KG in his prime (which he has yet to hit, just like Kobe)...sorry to say this, but Garnett would kick his @ss. Garnett is more athletic, quicker, better shooter, better ball-handling, better rebounder, etc. Shaq wouldn't be able to pull the ball up quick enough to dunk it, because it would get stolen at the waist...especially by someone like Kobe, also. Shaq is just a bulky center with muscle/fat. No shot, no passing abilities unless it's a cutting player (how easy is that?)...Yao Ming has been in the league for a few years and is already looking like a great center, developing a shot because it's an important part of the game. His eyes look around when he's got the ball...Shaq's look down or up...at the ball or the rim, once he dribbles. I've said this many times before...Shaq had his chance to win a championship by himself on the Magic. Don't say he was too young, either...he was scoring 29 PPG in his second year, and the same in his third. He was whipped by Hakeem Olajuwon (actually the Magic were swept in the Finals)...so that's all to that. Kobe has yet to prove he can do it, but it's because he has yet to have the chance to prove it.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting heatfan83:</div><div class="quote_post">dre, KG is arguably a better player in the regular season but there isn't a better player that steps up in the playoffs. KG is a player who busts is a$$ more but Shaq doesn't have to do much to dominate and win. When he does put in effort he is practically unstoppable. The reason he stopped putting in effort for the Lakers was because they were treating him like he wasn't the main reason for winning. So that might be bad on his part but he still is a better player than KG when he actually tries and when it actually matters.</div> KG isn't arguably better than Shaq,he is better than Shaq in every facet. And your quip about the Lakers treating Shaq badly probably has something to do with the fact Shaq thought he was the whole team and wanted to dictate as such. He continually came in out of shape,milked a minor injury and was an overall crybaby when things didn't go his way and the Lakers were lucky if he gave 50% a night. And his little spiel about an extension last year was a joke. What had he done in the past couple of seasons to warrant extension? Come in as big as jabba the hut? Cry to the media about this or that? Complain he wasn't getting the ball enough,yet when he did he didn't do alot when he did have the ball? Shaq is the post child of the rich,spoiled NBA primadonna. He was at one time the best in the NBA. Not anymore. I have defended what Shaq has done for the Lakers,but the fact is the Lakers were right in trading him. Not only was he a distraction but he was becoming a cancer to the team. I don't know about you,but thats not the best player in the NBA. I know you are a Heat fan but your suppositions and 'points' about Shaq are kind of tiresome and not to mention absurd. We are all NBA fans and can see the truth. No matter how you spin it,Shaq is what he is and that won't change.
realdeal winning an nba championship is not about doing it yourself and if you represent what the kobe-la lakers attitude is you guys are in for a suprise. If you compare Kobe to MJ then you know MJ had Scottie as his side kick and a good supporting cast and MJ never won it alone so Kobe will never win it alone neither. w/e I'll just say shaq is one of the 50 greatest players in the game, Finals MVP everytime they win, the guy is all over the NBA Bible and not many players live up to that greatness, he makes almost any team in the NBA an instant title contender, and there is no one capable of stopping him when he ever he bothers to lift a finger. Anyways you two guys have to be crazy to think Shaq < Odom, Grant, Butler
There's nothing wrong with defending Shaq. The only thing that gets me is that some guys will still say that Shaq will win the MVP next year, which will make him better than Kobe, Garnett, Duncan, etc...but it won't. Shaq really has no skills...someone like Yao could bring him out past the free throw line and shoot on him (like Duncan did before Fisher's shot, remember?)...and Shaq wouldn't have the speed to get back in the paint for the rebound (not even this year with his cardio workouts). Shaq is a huge guy that has alot of power. If you put him outside of the paint, he's no better than Shawn Bradley.
There's nothing wrong with defending Shaq. The only thing that gets me is that some guys will still say that Shaq will win the MVP next year, which will make him better than Kobe, Garnett, Duncan, etc...but it won't. Shaq really has no skills...someone like Yao could bring him out past the free throw line and shoot on him (like Duncan did before Fisher's shot, remember?)...and Shaq wouldn't have the speed to get back in the paint for the rebound (not even this year with his cardio workouts). Shaq is a huge guy that has alot of power. If you put him outside of the paint, he's no better than Shawn Bradley. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting heatfan83:</div><div class="quote_post">realdeal winning an nba championship is not about doing it yourself and if you represent what the kobe-la lakers attitude is you guys are in for a suprise.</div> Exactly. That's where I give Kobe almost as much credit as Shaq in those three years. Kobe/Shaq stopped working because they both wanted the ball. Kobe/Odom will work in less time because Odom doesn't care if he's got the ball or not. Shaq/Wade (and especially shot-happy Jones) will take much longer to work out...because Wade is a developing player who wants to jump out of the building (Shaq's in the way now), and Jones just wants to shoot everytime. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting heatfan:</div><div class="quote_post">If you compare Kobe to MJ then you know MJ had Scottie as his side kick and a good supporting cast and MJ never won it alone so Kobe will never win it alone neither.</div> Hey...Kobe is an SG, and so was MJ. Odom is an SF, and so was Scottie. Who was their center? Not Shaq...they didn't need a center. Horace Grant contributed well on defense and passed the ball well, also...wait...sounds like something Vlade will do this year. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting heatfan:</div><div class="quote_post">w/e I'll just say shaq is one of the 50 greatest players in the game, Finals MVP everytime they win, the guy is all over the NBA Bible and not many players live up to that greatness, he makes almost any team in the NBA an instant title contender, and there is no one capable of stopping him when he ever he bothers to lift a finger.</div> Finals MVP everytime THEY win, and I've already explained why. Do you honestly believe that Shaq would've averaged those Finals stats if he had to play someone like Duncan, Wallace, Ming, or Jermaine O'Neal? No chance. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting heatfan:</div><div class="quote_post">Anyways you two guys have to be crazy to think Shaq > Odom, Grant, Butler</div> For the Lakers, yes...it means more depth, which is actually more important than an aging Shaq. Now there are two good defensive players that can shoot (and score) and will pass the ball. Shaq can score. Okay...
You're right. There isn't a thing wrong with defending Shaq,but you come to a point where it all seems like nothing but rhetoric from a severely biased fan. No one ever said Shaq wasn't an all-time great but the fact remains Shaq isn't worthy of the best player tag anymore. He is a casualty of his own hype and buying into this image created by the media. My point was you can't spin Shaq into something he isn't anymore. Shaq does what he wants regardless if it harms the team,that is very apparent. He is very selfish and all about himself. That, in and of itself,puts him a few rungs below KG.
