The Quickest Destruction of a Team I Have Ever Witnessed...

They'll make it in the 7th or 8th slot. The main thing is they keep at no lower than a .450 win percentage till Kidd gets there. If they blow up before he can get there they don't have a shot.

 

Regardless if the Net franchise is done, which I doubt, I think the Knicks will be better. The Nets still have RJ and JKIDD, but KMART was a HUGE loss, and everyone knows it.

 

umm they are done there is no way they will b making it to the playorffs either cleveland toronto or philly will take there spot and all 3 teams have arguablly a better team

 

...is the destruction of the New Jersey Nets. I mean, we thought the Lakers were crumbling, at least they still have Kobe, and now Odom and some other guys! The Nets HAVE to be in deep sh*t. I mean, 3 years of ultimate sucess and WHAM! What happened?

Nets Hitlist:

Lucious Harris
Kenyon Marton
Kerry Kittles
Rodney Rogers

And yeah, they still got RJ. But even with the addition of still having Kidd, he might be slowly declining because of age and a surgery this offseason. And who even said that Kidd will still be on the team come December? And I dont think Alonzo Mourning is gonna save the team. I mean trust me, I want the Nets to do horrible, but god forbid Alonzo f*cks up his new kidney, because if he does, then he is seriously f*cked.

<font color="Red">Please people look thru the forum to see if there is already a similiar topic like the one you would like to start. We have plenty topics like this one about the Nets so called "destruction". Thread merged- Henacy</font>

 

^ They had to cut cost in order to relocate to Brooklyn. When they have settled they will go for marquee free agents to rebuild the Nets. By the time it happened J Kidd may already be gone.

 

Sigh...This was one great offseason for Knick fans everywhere. The improvements on our own team and the promises of being fully healthy when the season begins would have been satisfying enough. But the crash and burn of the Nets...that was a real treat. Still not quite sure which one i enjoyed more. And I was looking forward to "The Battle of the Atlantic" a few months ago too. Oh well. Good riddance to the Nets. May they play in obscurity until the end of the world.

 

I remember the some of my untrue Knick fan frineds switched to liking the Nets when they started getting good. They were so excited when the Nets were moving to Brooklyn especially native Brooklynites. Now the Nets are crumbling and they are switching to liking the Knicks now.

 

Well, the Nets will have Jefferson, Kidd, Nenad Krstic, Aaron Williams, Eric Williams and Alonzo. I don't see them doing alot, but they aren't going to be as bad as everyone makes them out to be. I just pray that Alonzo does well and stays healthy, that's all that matters to me (since I'm not that much of a Nets fan).

 

I noticed a trend of topics being started by people who surpport the Nets' Atlantic division rivials, topics like the "Nets are done" etc, I know, in the words of jigga, you cats have been sitting back & praying on the down fall, simply because we have ran thru your Atlantic division teams pretty easily the last 3 seasons. But I dont think you should take us so lightly this year. The Nets still have plenty of heart & experience on their roster. And they will be in the hunt for the Atlantic division title again this year. Simply because the teams in the division(your teams) arent that much better then this current Nets squad.

I think that people need to stop comparing this Nets squad to the eastern conference champions of 2002 & 2003. And start comparing them to the rest of the Atlantic division of 04'-05', you will quickly see that the Nets arent that far off the pace compared to the sixers, Knicks, Raptors & Celtics.

 

Henacy...the Nets quite simply are finished for the season. All the two year Nets fans are going to switch to whatever team their going to switch to because they know the Nets are down and out for the count. As for just waiting for the Nets to get into troubkle... for two decades the Knicks have owned the Nets, then the Nets get hot for two years and their this great franchise. The Nets will do very poorly even in the weak Atlantic division. Heart and Experience??? Sorry but teams wont be afraid of Aaron Williams in the low post. Or afraid of Richard Jefferson without Kidd, K mart and Kittles running alongside him. Kidd at the earliest will be back by December. You cant even compare the Nets to the Knicks. The Nets have nothing. It hurts I know. The Raptors are better than the Nets and I dont think too highly of them either. The 76'rs and Celtics are better than the Nets as well. Time to face the facts...it's pretty much over. The days of Kenyon Martin leaping up and dunking a ball that was lobbed up to him by Jason Kidd right after he faked the pass left to Richard Jefferson is over. The Nets are dead and good riddance. May they become the Clippers of the Eastern Conference.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Henacy...the Nets quite simply are finished for the season. All the two year Nets fans are going to switch to whatever team their going to switch to because they know the Nets are down and out for the count. As for just waiting for the Nets to get into troubkle... for two decades the Knicks have owned the Nets, then the Nets get hot for two years and their this great franchise</div>

Fact of the matter is yes, the Knicks ran over the Nets for the past 2 decades but New York Knick fans cant stand taking a backseat to the Nets even for a short period of time. And it was killing them to see the Nets walk off with the Atlantic division title these last 3 seasons especially since they have been competive for the division title since the season after the lockout year.

And of course some people are going to leave the Nets as fans, thats what happens, when people think a team can no longer be competive it happen to the Bulls after MJ. Iam pretty sure even somepeople have stop being lakers fans with all their tradition & history, now that Shaq has come back east. So that still doesnt mean the Nets are not going to bring their competive fire every night because there are less fans in the stands.



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> The Nets will do very poorly even in the weak Atlantic division.</div>
You tell me someone who will run away with the Atlantic division title & then I will con-seed to the Nets finishing pooorly in the division. Until then lets just see how the games play out. OK?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Heart and Experience???</div>

Yeah, you know heart something that you gain by recovering from giving up a 23 point 4th quarter lead to a Celtics team many had beating you before the series ever starter in 2002 playoffs. Something that you gain from bouncing back after to blow outs in Detroit to take the eventual world champs to 7 games last year in the playoffs. Somethings guys like Tim Thomas etc have never shown a day in their NBA careers.

Experience also comes with going thru deep playoff run & after playoffs. Knowing how to pull out games you arent surpose to win= exeperience, something that the Nets have & the current Knicks dont have as a collective group together.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Sorry but teams wont be afraid of Aaron Williams in the low post.</div>
Where did I say that teams where going to be afraid of Aaron Williams in the low block??hmmm....fact of the matter still remains Aaron Williams wont be afraid the KG's or the Ducan's either. He is still going to bring him competive nature every single night, & thats what heart/character is all about. Not putting fear into people, its about putting the competive foot forward against people that everybody feels you should be afraid of....


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Or afraid of Richard Jefferson without Kidd, K mart and Kittles running alongside him.</div>

Richard Jefferson proved to be pretty darn successful the last month of last season without Martin & kidd. He proved to be pretty darn succesful during the playoffs last year with kidd playing well below his normal standards. So I think RJ will be just fine with Kidd out for the 1st month or so.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Kidd at the earliest will be back by December. You cant even compare the Nets to the Knicks. The Nets have nothing. It hurts I know. The Raptors are better than the Nets and I dont think too highly of them either. The 76'rs and Celtics are better than the Nets as well. Time to face the facts...it's pretty much over. The days of Kenyon Martin leaping up and dunking a ball that was lobbed up to him by Jason Kidd right after he faked the pass left to Richard Jefferson is over. The Nets are dead and good riddance. May they become the Clippers of the Eastern Conference.</div>

What do the Knicks have to the point you can say "dont compare", come on now I think you are a bit de-illusional about the talent you have on your Knicks squad. You have a solid team & that is it my friend. You have a spot up shooter running around on one knee. You have a point guard, who has all the talent in the world but still lacks the key instincts to bring a team together to win games. You have a 60 million dollar shot happy back up guard, who the Bulls & GM Paxson didnt realistically even want because his style of play is a team concept killer. And those are the strong points of your Knicks.

You still have a lack luster frontcourt even by eastern conference standards, you are extremely overatted with Tim Thomas at the small forward. Kurt Thomas is solid at the 4 spot, but nothing that will come close to being a difference maker along the frontline. And your center spot is pretty much lame with Nazr Mohammod, who all you can possibly expect from him is to produce a few boards a game.

And everybody says the Knicks have depth but the question, you need to ask your self is it positive depth? you have Vin Baker, who is on a game to game edge every single season, dont believe me ask Celtic fans about what happen there. You have Shandon Anderson who the team is having trouble buying out. And is already fueding with upper management, potentially causing team chemisty problems, & penny Hardaway who is just an injury waiting to happen. A talented but extremely inexperienced Mike Sweetny. And a 3rd or 4th string point guard making 3 million plus a year, & probably wont be happy not being apart of the evry game rotations.

So please feel free to remind me what is so special about the Knicks that they dont compare to the Nets because they are so far superior? I must have missed it.

The Knicks backcourt on paper makes them seem like alot better team then they really are? And the fact of the matter still remains we dont know how Jamal Crawford, Allan Houston or even Tim Thomas is going to react to not being on the floor in the 4th quarter on a regular basis. See everybody is debating on who will be the starters but real players dont care about that, they care about being in the game in the 4th quarter every single night. And the problems is that just isnt possible to have tim Thomas, Allan Houston & Jamal Crawford all on the floor together going down the stretch of games. Which means some big egos will be hurting next year, which could make for some problems from guys who arent use to adjusting to smaller roles.

So lets see how the Knicks mix of players works out before we start thinking they are something special as a complete unit.

 

Well, I like Kidd...I really wish the team the best of luck, because I know how you guys must feel, now that you're without K-Mart and Kittles. People are going to doubt the team, and doubt Kidd because of his knees...just like some are doing to the Lakers. Personally, I think the Nets will more than likely miss the playoffs, but barely...but it won't be a terrible season, like most think.

 

The Knicks are the favorites in the Atlantic without a doubt of course and the biggest threat to them I personally think is Boston. As for Tim Thomas having no heart...your absolutely right. He is garbage. A complete fugazy(I think thats how you spell it). Your also right about the Knicks when it comes to experience. We dont have alot of really experienced guys. You got me all wrong about that Aaron Williams comment. I actually like him. For the exact same reasons you must mentioned. Aaron Williams is a solid player without a doubt. But its a downgrade from KMart which is the point I was trying to bring across. He wont be able to play as good defense or rebound as well as Kmart. No amount of heart Williams can bring to the table can replace that.

Richard Jefferson did do better than I thought he would without Kidd and Martin but he still had Kerry Kittles and Rodney Rogers and Luscious Harris who had all stepped up their level of play.

Now as for what the Knicks bring to the table that makes them much better then the Nets... they have superior outside shooting, a low post prescence, an explosive sixth man, better rebounding and are much deeper then the Nets. Houston is arguably the best shooter in the league and unlike the other top shooters he can create his own shot so I believe calling him a spot up shooter is incorrect. Marbury is still a great point guard despite what you say. Tim Thomas is not overrated. He sucks and everyone knows it now stop bring him up I cant stand him. The Nets front court is even more lackluster than the Knicks and all things considered(being in the East and all)the Knicks front court is at worst average. Not great not bad. Is our kind of depth positive? Yes it is. You talk about the Knicks having guys who will be angry about not playing the fourth quarter...now your just exaggerating. Houston doesnt mind sitting out the fourth quarter if he's not performing. The only player who might whine about playing time is Jamal Crawford but there wont be all this nonsense around it like the Shaq and Kobe debacle. As for Shandon Anderson having problems with upper management. Who cares?? It's Shandon Anderson. He isnt a key part of what were doing anymore. Penny Hardaway an injury just waiting to happen...if your banking on a player getting hurt then there really is a problem. You cant count on one of our players getting injured that's silly. A team that is hoping that another team will have a key injury is already in trouble. Michael Sweetney is certainly talented and will only get better. When was the last time you heard of a third string point guard whining to play? Really now. Another thing the Knicks have going for them is that they will have more chemistry then they had last season when they were going through all these changes. The Nets lost Kmart, Kittles, Rogers, Harris all for nothing but draft picks. And most importantly they lost what made them so great...their running game. The running game is over and gone. All these things make the Knicks much more then a mere match with the Nets. It puts them back in the place they were for the last two decades. Out of the Knicks sight where they belong.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The Knicks are the favorites in the Atlantic without a doubt of course and the biggest threat to them I personally think is Boston. As for Tim Thomas having no heart...your absolutely right. He is garbage. A complete fugazy(I think thats how you spell it). Your also right about the Knicks when it comes to experience. We dont have alot of really experienced guys.</div>

The Knicks might be slight division favorites, but my point is all the teams in the division have so many holes that no one will be running away with the title. Which is why the race will be close all season long, and a team getting on a little hot streak at the right time could win the division. And experienced teams no hot to turn it up at the right times.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> You got me all wrong about that Aaron Williams comment. I actually like him. For the exact same reasons you must mentioned. Aaron Williams is a solid player without a doubt. But its a downgrade from KMart which is the point I was trying to bring across. He wont be able to play as good defense or rebound as well as Kmart. No amount of heart Williams can bring to the table can replace that. </div>

He doesnt have to put up Kenyon Martin type #'s, people forget that Aaron Williams started alot of games in the past for the Nets especially before the Jason Kidd era started. And Aaron Williams did a solid & consistent job, about 11 & 8 every night. If he can be that type of stable player then the Nets can live with that for this season.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Richard Jefferson did do better than I thought he would without Kidd and Martin but he still had Kerry Kittles and Rodney Rogers and Luscious Harris who had all stepped up their level of play</div>

Well the Kerry Kittles departure was expected even if the Nets werent making pay cuts so to speak. Everybody knew from the middle of last year that KK wouldnt most likely be back. So while it will be an adjustment not having KK to knock down jumpers on the wing, it is an adjustment everyone knew was coming so they should be prepared.

And I think everyone is overatting the lose of Rogers, yes he had a good stetch while Kidd & Martin was out last year. But as a whole his 2 years in Jersey stunk he needed to go. And I think Eric Williams as is replacement as a backup forward will bring more to the table as far as effort, leadership, & defense.

As far as Lu goes, its really nothing I can say about that to justify his release. Maybe Nets management feels that Rodney Buford can be a solid backup at the 2 guard, I dont think so but he did play well for Philly that year they went to the finals. And he had a good year with the Grizzlies a while back. He is a very athletic player so that fits well along side kidd.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Now as for what the Knicks bring to the table that makes them much better then the Nets... they have superior outside shooting,</div>

What outside shooting? you have one shooter Allan Houston, other than that its the same core group that couldnt make a jumpshot if you put a pistol to their forheads last year vs the Nets in the playoffs.And your one shooter is running around on one knee still trying to recover from a surgery he had two offseasons ago. And your one shooter's jumpshot usually dies around 4th quarter time.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> a low post prescence,</div>

Who?where? did the Knicks acquire someone I dont know about during the offseason? I know your not talking about KT, KT is one of my favorite Knicks but to mention him as if he was an overwhelming pressence down low is a bit to much. On offense, Kurt scores most of his points in the mid-range area in pick & pop situations. And on defense yes KT is a good post on-ball defender, but he isnt going block any shots on the weakside, or be a force in the middle to deter anyone from driving to the basket against the Knicks. And with the Knicks being weak on the perimeter defensively they will be changelled at the basket alot this year. And the Knicks dont have the type of difference maker down low to prevent such from happening.



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">an explosive sixth man,</div>

And inconsistent, Jamal Crawford will go thru so many up & downs its going to be riduculous. Also a player that has never been in a winning enviroment, its alot easier to score 20 on a team where there is no pressure on your back & you get to shoot 18 times. Its a totally different atmosphere for Crawford under the big lights of broadway playa.



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">better rebounding</div>

Jerome Williams & Kurt Thomas, and then who else on the Knicks is a exceptional rebounder?


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">and are much deeper then the Nets.</div>

Like I said you depth looks good only on paper right now. Fact of the matter still remains Penny, Vin Baker, Shandon Anderson are clearly past their best playing days. Allan Houston isnt 100%, and Mike Sweetny is realistic experience is 1st real legit minutes on the NBA level this season. There goes your depth.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Houston is arguably the best shooter in the league and unlike the other top shooters he can create his own shot so I believe calling him a spot up shooter is incorrect.</div>

hmm...Allan Houston, how many times does he go to the basket off the dribble? Can He create shots & plays for teamates? Does he defend his position well?, pump faking at the three point line & pulling up for a 20 footer instead taking 24 footer is the closet Allan Houston comes on a consistent basis to creating his own shot. The guy is basically a stand sitll shooter.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Marbury is still a great point guard despite what you say.</div>

I followed Marbury over a decade now if you count his days at Lincoln, so I never question his indiviual skills. But the question still remains whether he is a winning point guard.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Tim Thomas is not overrated. He sucks and everyone knows it now stop bring him up I cant stand him.</div>

I say he overatted because for one Isiah trade a good fit in Van Horn for him. And two because alot of media during his days with the Sixers & Bucks made excuses for him being trash.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The Nets front court is even more lackluster than the Knicks and all things considered(being in the East and all)the Knicks front court is at worst average. Not great not bad.</div>

That is the point its trash vs trash do really need to compare which trash is better.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Is our kind of depth positive? Yes it is. You talk about the Knicks having guys who will be angry about not playing the fourth quarter...now your just exaggerating</div>.


Thats not exaggerating these NBa cats are filled with alot of ego. And sitting in big situations when you are use to be the man can be a major blow to the ego.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Houston doesnt mind sitting out the fourth quarter if he's not performing. The only player who might whine about playing time is Jamal Crawford but there wont be all this nonsense around it like the Shaq and Kobe debacle.</div>

Please tell me when has Allan Houston ever been ask to sit in a big 4th quarter situation when he has been completely healthy, even when he isnt playing well? its never happened so you dont know how he will react to that type of situation. So to think that he will except a 4th quarter bench with open arms if it does occur, is a biut dreamlandish on your part. Allan Houston like any other player does have an ego & confidence about himself. Why do you think he went out & made that public statement about himself being a top 5 guard a couple years back, when everybody was saying he wasnt worth his contract. He said it because his pride was hurting. And his pride will hurt if he finds himself on the bench with regularty. Iam not saying its going to happen but it could & that my point, just because you put a bunch of somewhat talented players together doesnt mean everyone will accept their roles.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">As for Shandon Anderson having problems with upper management. Who cares?? It's Shandon Anderson. He isnt a key part of what were doing anymore.</div>

Fact of the matter still remains is he is still the Knicks best perimeter defender and their will be situations where he has to be a part of the team, if he is in a knicks uniform.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Penny Hardaway an injury just waiting to happen...if your banking on a player getting hurt then there really is a problem.You cant count on one of our players getting injured that's silly. A team that is hoping that another team will have a key injury is already in trouble.</div>

Where did I say I want Penny to get injured, hoping or even said he is going to get injured. I simply said that Penny is a injury waiting to happen...meaning with his history of injury & age to expect him to be a major difference maker is a bit unrealistic.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Michael Sweetney is certainly talented and will only get better</div> Yeah but still extremely inexperienced.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">. When was the last time you heard of a third string point guard whining to play? Really now.</div>

When is the last time you seen a 3rd string point guard making almost 4 mill a year. And Moochie Norris hasnt been a thrid string pg the last few years. And wasnt on of the reasons he was shipped out of Houston was complaining about PT?
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Another thing the Knicks have going for them is that they will have more chemistry then they had last season when they were going through all these changes.</div>

It maybe better than last year but that still doesnt mean that the chemistry will be good or effective, the Knicks have a strange mix of players.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The Nets lost Kmart, Kittles, Rogers, Harris all for nothing but draft picks. And most importantly they lost what made them so great...their running game. The running game is over and gone. All these things make the Knicks much more then a mere match with the Nets. It puts them back in the place they were for the last two decades. Out of the Knicks sight where they belong.</div>

Looking at the Knicks roster in my opinion they are about a 45 win team, that is not good enuff to run away with the division, therefore they wont be out of the sight of the Nets because the Nets are probably a 37-40 win team based on roster. A few wins here a few wins there is going to be what seperates the top of the Atlantic division from the bottom. Every teams has major flaws, its just whoever can cover up those holes the best that will walk a way with the division title.

 

The Nets are going to be playing without Kidd for a month. So I think they will already start below .500. And Jefferson was able to win more games because the d couldn't collapse on him because Kittles and Harris would make them pay. And even the best of players like Marbury have trouble when they don't have a good shooter. For example, in the playoffs, Everyone collapsed on Marbury but Anderson never made them pay because his lack of shooting ability. No question Jefferson has improved but not to the extent where he can carry Kidd's load for the month. I think the Nets will win 30-35 games just because of the valuable pieces they lost.

 

Well the Knicks wont run away with it but the Knicks will be clear winners in the Atlantic. Honestly I dont think the Atlantic is that bad but I'm not too sure about the other teams. Dont know about experienced teams knowing when to get hot at the right time...u could be right or not. That's not an experience thing I dont think. The Miami Heat got hot towards the end of the season but their not an experienced team.

Aaron Williams is solid. I already said that. The only point I was making is that a player who was a big part of their success is gone. Everybody might have known that KK was going to go sooner or later but I know it was a surprise for everyone when they found out it was for a draft pick! The Nets have no real outside shooting and believe me when I say that puts the Nets at a HUGE disadvantage. The same thing that the Nets did to Marbury in the first round of the playoffs will happen to Richard Jefferson and Jason Kidd since neither are good shooters. Rodney Rogers was playing well for you guys even though he was doing lousy before. He turned into a valuable addition of your team and you lost him to free agency. Yes and noone can explain the loss of Lu. Your not the only one who doubts if Buford is ready to replace him.

Most good teams only have one good shooter if they have even one and we have one of the best. Houston says he'll be around 100% and that's good enough for me. His jumpshot does not die around the 4th quarter. If anything he picks it up in the fourth quarter. When he doesnt score in the 4th it's because he isnt being given the ball in the fourth. Your probably thinking Van Horn who has a reputation of disappearing down the stretch although he does well in the other quarters.

Vin Baker is our low post prescence. And before you laugh let me say that he is a better center then alot of guys in the East. He was out of shape when he came to the Knicks but it seems he's gotten back in shape and has had correctional heart surgery done. He'll be much better then he was last year. I'm sorry but didnt he do pretty well in Boston before they tried to take his money?I'm pretty sure he did average alot of ppg.

Jamal Crawford is inconsistent your right. But that probably has to do with the fact that besides himself and Kirk noone else on the Bulls were interested in having or shooting the ball. So he has to take good shots and bad shots. That will change now that he's no longer the number one option for scoring so he will be more consistent.

Kurt Thomas, Jerome Willams, Nazr is good on boards and Michael Sweetney. Sweetney is second per 48 minutes in rebounds. That's alot of rebounding the Knicks have.

Shandon Anderson, Penny Hardaway and Vin Baker are definetely past their best days. So what? Penny Hardaway is still a good bench scorer and still understands the game. Vin Baker is still good. And who cares about Shandon Anderson? He wont even be in our rotation. Houston says he's going to be around 100% for the season. Your not his doctor or anyone particularly close to him so you cant refute it.

I never understood that argument against Houston. "How many times does he go to the basket off the dribble?" It's so stupid and so ridiculous. Doesnt make any sense. Who cares if he takes everyone to the basket?? All that matters is if the ball goes in the hoop. That is it! That is the goal of the game. As long as he scores and is productive I dont care how he does it. He doesnt need to create shots for his teammates as long as he creates his own shot and puts the ball in the basket. Everything else is secondary. Who cares if he pumpfakes and then shoots the open shot?? The ball goes in!!! However which way he chooses to get off his shot is fine by me. Peja and the other top shooters cant create their own shot. You make it sound as if it's the easiest thing for a shooter to get off a good shot with a man on them. It's not. If it was the Kings would have been the champions last season. That's the difference between a spot up shooter and Houston. A spot up shooter cant shoot with someone in their face.

Why do you keep bringing up Tim Thomas?? He is garbage. Stop mentioning him. Isiah made a mistake when he traded away Van Horn for this fool. Happy?? Now let's not mention TT again.

No. The Nets front court is trash. The Knicks front court is average there is a difference. The Knicks front court could be better. The Nets front court cant get much worse.

Well you dont know if Houston will have problems with sitting out the fourth quarter if he's not doing well either. Some stars have problems with sitting on the bench others dont. Moving on.

Shandon Anderson isnt part of the rotation anymore. He wont be getting significants minutes. He doesnt matter anymore. I didnt say you were hoping Penny would get injured. The point I was making is that your saying Penny will probably get injured. And for you to use that as part of your argument is ridiculous. Your saying if Penny gets injured the Knicks are in trouble. If Kevin Garnett was in a car accident and couldnt play ball for the rest of his life the T wolves would be in trouble too. If wishes were fishes then there would be no water for us to drink. You have to assume everyone will be healthy until they get injured.

Sweetney will get experience with time. He will be much better then last year. Moochie hasnt been whining for playtime and he's the second string point guard. Ummm having chemistry is ALWAYS good and effective. P

The Knicks are in my opinion a 48 win team fully capable of 50 wins. You havent really said alot of reasons why they wont take over the Atlantic. Your analysis had alot of ifs and if is the biggest word in the dictionary. You havent said why the Nets arent so inferior to the Knicks. The biggest threat to the Knicks is Boston. And even then we can easily handle them. The Nets are back where they were for the past two decades at the bottom of the NBA. And their going to stay there too. Now tell me why the Nets even deserve to be said in the same sentence as my own team. The New York Knicks.

 

Assuming Kidd can make it back by January they will still make the playoffs.

He'll just find someone else to make look good.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The Nets are dead and good riddance. May they become the Clippers of the Eastern Conference</div>

Screw you! If you dont care about the Nets why the hell are you posting here moron.

This is what you said dumbass:

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Houston is arguably the best shooter in the league and unlike the other top shooters he can create his own shot so I believe calling him a spot up shooter is incorrect.</div>

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I never understood that argument against Houston. "How many times does he go to the basket off the dribble?" It's so stupid and so ridiculous. Doesnt make any sense. Who cares if he takes everyone to the basket?? All that matters is if the ball goes in the hoop.</div>

You are contradicting yourself you fuckin idiot. First you said calling Houston a spot up shooter was incorrect. When Henacy proved your dumbass wrong, you backed off and said you didnt care how Houston scored. Stick to one thing when you argue idiot. suck a dick.

 

I don't think that I've ever seen Kidd make a vet good, after they've had a sh!tty overall career.

And somehow I just dont see Scalebrine ever being good, at all.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Well the Knicks wont run away with it but the Knicks will be clear winners in the Atlantic. Honestly I dont think the Atlantic is that bad but I'm not too sure about the other teams. Dont know about experienced teams knowing when to get hot at the right time...u could be right or not. That's not an experience thing I dont think. The Miami Heat got hot towards the end of the season but their not an experienced team.</div>

Yes you can know how to get hot at the right time with being a expreince, my hole point was that experience helps you when certain games even when you are struggling. Look at the way the Nets played at the beggining of last year they couldnt beat anybody, but they were still able to win all the important games vs the Atlantic division even when they couldnt beat anyone outside of the division because their experience played a factor in them recognozing the importance of pulling out divisional games, even when the rest isnt going so well.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Aaron Williams is solid. I already said that. The only point I was making is that a player who was a big part of their success is gone. Everybody might have known that KK was going to go sooner or later but I know it was a surprise for everyone when they found out it was for a draft pick!The Nets have no real outside shooting and believe me when I say that puts the Nets at a HUGE disadvantage. The same thing that the Nets did to Marbury in the first round of the playoffs will happen to Richard Jefferson and Jason Kidd since neither are good shooters. Rodney Rogers was playing well for you guys even though he was doing lousy before. He turned into a valuable addition of your team and you lost him to free agency. Yes and noone can explain the loss of Lu. Your not the only one who doubts if Buford is ready to replace him.</div>

You are most definately right lack of shooting is a big disadvantage for the Nets this year (I actually talk about that in a season preview I made, thats located at the top of the Nets forum), but thats where other guys have got to pick up there ablities. And see what comes from the unknown, guys like Brian Scalabrine, who has always been a good shooter since he was at USC. Zoran Planinic, who was a decent shooter overseas but didnt show it last year. I think the only way the Nets will make up some of the shooting loss is by doing it as a collective effort. And Like I said just covering up holes, meaning finding other ways to make up for the lack of outside shooting. In the past our motion offense has covered up for our lack of outside shooting.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Most good teams only have one good shooter if they have even one and we have one of the best. Houston says he'll be around 100% and that's good enough for me. His jumpshot does not die around the 4th quarter. If anything he picks it up in the fourth quarter. When he doesnt score in the 4th it's because he isnt being given the ball in the fourth. Your probably thinking Van Horn who has a reputation of disappearing down the stretch although he does well in the other quarters.</div>

Cmon now Houston jump does die in the 4th, you & I both know that.His lack of coming up big in big spots is the main reason why everyone wants him out of NYC. He hit a big shot against Miami & what else? & Nah, Iam not think of KVH even tho...he is very similiar in that regards.

And your right most teams do only have one or maybe two good shooters but I dont consider them good shooting teams. Their are only really a handful of good shooting teams in this league Minny, Sacro, last years Mavs(not to sure about this year's version) & thats about it. Other than that just about every other team suffers from a lack of shooting just like the Nets including the Knicks. It maybe to a lesser degree but there very few teams in this league that can get by on there ablity to shoot the basketball.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Vin Baker is our low post prescence. And before you laugh let me say that he is a better center then alot of guys in the East. He was out of shape when he came to the Knicks but it seems he's gotten back in shape and has had correctional heart surgery done. He'll be much better then he was last year. I'm sorry but didnt he do pretty well in Boston before they tried to take his money?I'm pretty sure he did average alot of ppg.</div>

He did do well, but the reason they tried to take his money was because he suffered a short breakdown in his battle against depression & substance abuse. And that exactly the reason I said you cant count on him to be their game & game out. When you are battling what he is, a breakdown can come at any moment without any type of notice or signs to the team.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Jamal Crawford is inconsistent your right. But that probably has to do with the fact that besides himself and Kirk noone else on the Bulls were interested in having or shooting the ball. So he has to take good shots and bad shots. That will change now that he's no longer the number one option for scoring so he will be more consistent.</div>

We shall see all I know is Jamal Crawford has been the same type of shot happy player since he was at Michigan, playing in the backcourt with Lavell Blanchard. And there was options on that team. So Iam not sure that a lack of options on the Bulls is the reason for Crawford's style. But we shall see...

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Kurt Thomas, Jerome Willams, Nazr is good on boards and Michael Sweetney. Sweetney is second per 48 minutes in rebounds. That's alot of rebounding the Knicks have.</div>

Me personally I never like that per 48 second stat, its a bit bogus when you are trying to attribute what a player is doning on a consistent basis. Kurt Thomas & J.Will are the proven guys on the boards for this team. Other then that the rest of the team is a bit suspect Sweets isnt going to dominate the backboards like he did at G-Town, where he used his wieght advantage because he is giving up size on the NBA level under the rim. And Nazr is still a bit unproven on the backboards less then 6 per game from your starting center is a bit unacceptable.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Shandon Anderson, Penny Hardaway and Vin Baker are definetely past their best days. So what? Penny Hardaway is still a good bench scorer and still understands the game. Vin Baker is still good. And who cares about Shandon Anderson? He wont even be in our rotation. Houston says he's going to be around 100% for the season. Your not his doctor or anyone particularly close to him so you cant refute it.</div>

Your right, Iam not Allan Houston's doctor but if he still trying to recover from a surgery he had last offseason, that smells like a problem to me.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I never understood that argument against Houston. "How many times does he go to the basket off the dribble?" It's so stupid and so ridiculous. Doesnt make any sense. Who cares if he takes everyone to the basket?? All that matters is if the ball goes in the hoop. That is it! That is the goal of the game.</div>

It does matter, when A.Houston's jumpshot isnt falling how is he going to find ways to score & produce. Being able to take the ball off the dribble also helps to create more opportunities for teams. And that the reason A. Houston only gets about 2 assit per game, well below the standards for a permier shooting guard in this league.

At the end of the day putting the ball in the basket is always the main goal on offese, but it begins with the ablity to break the defense down.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> As long as he scores and is productive I dont care how he does it. He doesnt need to create shots for his teammates as long as he creates his own shot and puts the ball in the basket. Everything else is secondary. Who cares if he pumpfakes and then shoots the open shot?? The ball goes in!!!</div>

I never said that it was a bad thing of him pump faking & taking a mid-range J instead of a 3. I just dont consider that to be creating your own shot per say, Allan Houston cant take the ball on the baseline or at the top, & get to the hoop on a consistent bases & like it or not that hurt the Knicks in the past. And its still going to effect the Knicks now, because it puts all the pressure on Steph to be the creator & Crawford can create as well.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">However which way he chooses to get off his shot is fine by me. Peja and the other top shooters cant create their own shot. You make it sound as if it's the easiest thing for a shooter to get off a good shot with a man on them. It's not. If it was the Kings would have been the champions last season. That's the difference between a spot up shooter and Houston. A spot up shooter cant shoot with someone in their face. </div>

Peja can shot with someone in his face, so can Wesley Person. So I dont define a spot up shooter as someone who can shoot with someone in his face. I define a spot up shooter as someone who can really put the ball on the floor & get to the hoop with regularty. Someone who cant use his ablity to shoot to to create opportunites for others. And Allan Houston fits the bill to me. Many may not precieve him to be because he makes 100 million & he isnt your protypical spot up shooter like a Wesley person or Craig Hodges, or someone like that. He is a high volume spot up shooter.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Why do you keep bringing up Tim Thomas?? He is garbage. Stop mentioning him. Isiah made a mistake when he traded away Van Horn for this fool. Happy?? Now let's not mention TT again.

No. The Nets front court is trash. The Knicks front court is average there is a difference. The Knicks front court could be better. The Nets front court cant get much worse.</div>

The Knicks frontcourt is average only if everything works out, if Vin Baker is alot more effective then he was last year for the Knicks. If Sweetney is as good as he showed last year in the playoffs, if not then the Knicks frontline is trash as well imo.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Well you dont know if Houston will have problems with sitting out the fourth quarter if he's not doing well either. Some stars have problems with sitting on the bench others dont. Moving on.</div>

Your 100% right, I was simply stating that there is opportunity for such a problem to a rise, never said it will a rise.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Shandon Anderson isnt part of the rotation anymore. He wont be getting significants minutes. He doesnt matter anymore. I didnt say you were hoping Penny would get injured. The point I was making is that your saying Penny will probably get injured. And for you to use that as part of your argument is ridiculous. Your saying if Penny gets injured the Knicks are in trouble. If Kevin Garnett was in a car accident and couldnt play ball for the rest of his life the T wolves would be in trouble too. If wishes were fishes then there would be no water for us to drink. You have to assume everyone will be healthy until they get injured.</div>

Iam going to leave the Penny joint alone because we are both so far apart & I dont think either one of us is clearly getting the otherside's point of view on the subject.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Sweetney will get experience with time. He will be much better then last year. Moochie hasnt been whining for playtime and he's the second string point guard. Ummm having chemistry is ALWAYS good and effective. P</div>

Your right but you still have to take the approach like this is Sweets rookie year due to his lack of experience last season. And of course chemistry is always good & effective, if you have. And are just teams that dont always have it know matter how talented the team is just look at the Blazers over the last past 4 or 5 years.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The Knicks are in my opinion a 48 win team fully capable of 50 wins. You havent really said alot of reasons why they wont take over the Atlantic. Your analysis had alot of ifs and if is the biggest word in the dictionary.
You havent said why the Nets arent so inferior to the Knicks.</div>

Ahh.. this whole conversation has been the reason why...The Knicks are simply not good enough to feel that they are vastly superior to any team in the league not just. They have a strange make up of players, dont have a good make up of a team with a good defensive concept. And have just about as many holes as any other team in the league. The Knicks are not on the level of the Pistons, Pacers in the east. After those two teams there is a major drop off in the quality of the teams in the in the east, meaning that the east race shall be wide open for spots 4-8 in the playoffs just like last season.



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> The biggest threat to the Knicks is Boston. And even then we can easily handle them. The Nets are back where they were for the past two decades at the bottom of the NBA. And their going to stay there too. Now tell me why the Nets even deserve to be said in the same sentence as my own team. The New York Knicks</div>

All the teams in the Atlantic division need to be mentioned in the same boat for the simple fact they are all just bout average teams, some may slighty below average. But there is not one great team in the division. And the top of the division will not be seperated from the bottom of the division by more than 5 games at the most. Iam almost certain of that. Nobody in the Atlantic divison will win 50 games this year, that alone should tell you no ones running away with the division.