Here's an excerpt out of Phil's book, titled "Mindgames" by Roland Lazenby (2001). This could be put in the Shaq vs. Kobe thread, but I have a feeling that this thread will get a huge number of replies after reading this... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"><font size="1">Still, Jackson's initial disappointment over not getting Pippen led him to forecast a 5-5 start for his team in November. And that came before an October 13 injury forced Bryant to miss the first 15 games on the schedule. Yet even a setback such as Bryant's broken wrist proved to be a blessing. It allowed the coaches to mold the team indentity, then to add Bryant's frenetic energy to the equation in December, like some sort of super-octane fuel. It would also allow time for the rift between Bryant and O'Neal to begin healing. On that issue, Jackson wasted little time. "I'm going to stop some of the gossiping, stop some of the rumormongering among the personnel here," he promised that first day. At the time, Jackson and his coaches didn't realize just how deep a divide they faced. After the season, Winter would confide that he was shocked by the level of hatred O'Neal expressed for Bryant when the coaches first arrived on the scene. "There was alot of hatred in his heart," Winter said, adding that O'Neal didn't hesitate to vent his feelings in team meetings. "He was saying really hateful things," Winter explained. "Kobe just took it and kept going." O'Neal's main message to anyone who would listen, including management, was that the team could not win a championship with Bryant. West had been strong in pushing aside O'Neal's desire to remove Bryant from the team, but there were signs that management had heard the message so often that they, too, entertained doubts. During the offseason, former O'Neal teammate Penny Hardaway had contacted O'Neal about joining the Lakers. The center jumped at the opportunity and phoned management. The implied message was that Bryant should be traded, but management declined that move. During the season, as the coaches worked to heal the rift between the players, Winter explained that it had been clear that if the coaches' efforts didn't work that "a move would have to be made if they can't play together." The team wasn't about to trade the massive O'Neal, which meant that Bryant would have to go. Like West, though, the coaching staff saw Bryant as a Jordan-like player. His hands were smaller than Jordan's, but the athletic ability, the intelligence, the desire, were prodigious. What wasn't clear was whether Bryant would grow to possess the alpha male nature that made Jordan so dominant in his late twenties. Bryant was still so young, it was hard to evaluate him for that. He certainly possessed the work ethic and drive. But Jackson put off the temptation to form a close relationship with Bryant. The coach correctly read that O'Neal's nature craved such a relationship, and Jackson turned just about all of his undivided attention to his relationship with O'Neal. The coach would later explain that the center did not have the same inquisitiveness as Jordan, and the conversations he had with O'Neal were not as expansive. Still, they spent much time talking. Early in the season, Bryant would point out that he had yet to sit down for an in-depth conversation with Jackson. Bryant kept expecting that conversation to occur. But it never would. Jackson kept his time for O'Neal. Some of the coaching staff pointed out that Bryant could have approached the coach about such a talk, but the young guard had such a strong sense of team issues that he seemed happy to let Jackson focus his efforts on soothing the center's harsh feelings. For much of the healing between the center and the guard, Jackson and Winter relied on their triangle. The main idea was that because the offense was so structured, it would make the relationship between O'Neal and Bryant smoother on the court. Still, the coaches found there was so much residual anger on the part of O'Neal and other veterans against Bryant that Jackson had to spend months counseling O'Neal on how to get over it. The danger, said Winter, was that O'Neal seemed to influence the entire team against Bryant. So he and Jackson worked regularly on changing that attitude. "The coaches voiced to us that they weren't seeing the same things we were seeing when they watched film and when they watched what was going on," Derek Fisher explained. "They didn't see the same selfishness or one-on-one play that we saw. What I tried to tell some of the other guys is that this is our fourth year now- me, Shaq, Robert, Rick, Travis- so we still had issues that we had dealt with before this year." And those issues were still cooking on the team agenda, Fisher said. "It was kind of similar to a relationship between a man and a woman where you get upset with all of these things from the past that come up. That's really where alot of this stuff stemmed from. The coaches saw that alot of this stuff would come in due time. But we were so impatient because we felt we had dealt with it before." For a time, it seemed that no matter what Bryant did, O'Neal and other teammates wanted to find fault with it. Winter revealed that he finally put together a videotape to prove to O'Neal that Bryant was doing just what he was supposed to do. "I think Kobe is bending over backwards to get the ball in to Shaq," Winter would confide as the season progressed. "If there's a problem there- and I think we'll work it out- it's that I don't think Shaq appreciates what Kobe is trying to do to help his game." And so it became easy for the coaches to take Bryant's early injury as a blessing. The guard's absence allowed the team's entire focus to fall upon O'Neal, which worked nicely into Jackson's plans. He had named O'Neal capatain and spent considerable time talking through a new approach to the game. Jackson wanted more leadership, conditioning, and defense out of O'Neal. As Winter explained, Jackson knew that O'Neal was motivated by scoring points, so he gave the center more scoring opportunities as long as he fulfilled the rest of his obligations. Jackson also regularly called O'Neal's hand if he failed to do the right thing.</font></div> Wow...after reading this, I don't ever want to hear Shaq's name ever again. It almost makes me sick to my stomach reading all of that. Putting this all in a different perspective, I would've rather had Gheorge Muresan on the Lakers and not win anything, instead of having Shaq on there and winning three-straight titles. Now I hope Shaq runs into the one thing he believes he has never found in his life: FAILURE.
Hey there Real I just notice that you became a JBB Write congrats can't wait to read the next article. Yeah I read this in another board and founded very shocking. God, what has KB done to this man (before the Kate incident) that he hates him so much. We now know why he's so biter about the trade because in some way Shaq's wish came true but instead he?s the one that got trade and probably (which I dough) because KB wanted him out of there. The worse is who Shaq wanted in return for KB, Penny Hardaway. I now also know why KB feels or felt like a loner and why he can't/couldn't confide in the rest of the team all because the big cry-baby couldn?t stand being second, GOOD LUCK WADE. I can't believe a person can be so mean without a good reason. I like what Winters says "There was a lot of hatred in his heart." I wonder who's the more selfish one now? Hey Real your forgot this... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">As for O'Neal, Winter said, "My main concern is that I don't want him to be satisfied with where he is. I want him to realize what he's doing wrong, even on the freethrows.......He's not easy to coach. He has kind of a resentment for anybody to tell him anything that he's doing wrong. He's not an easy guy to coach. I think Phil treads very softly on Shaq, Winter said. "I think he still is trying to read the situation as to what is the best way to motivate Shaq. I don't think he knows yet. And I certainly don't know." </div> What a crybaby.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jesseca328:</div><div class="quote_post">Hey there Real I just notice that you became a JBB Write congrats can't wait to read the next article. Yeah I read this in another board and founded very shocking. God, what has KB done to this man (before the Kate incident) that he hates him so much. We now know why he's so biter about the trade because in some way Shaq's wish came true but instead he?s the one that got trade and probably (which I dough) because KB wanted him out of there. The worse is who Shaq wanted in return for KB, Penny Hardaway. I now also know why KB feels or felt like a loner and why he can't/couldn't confide in the rest of the team all because the big cry-baby couldn?t stand being second, GOOD LUCK WADE. I can't believe a person can be so mean without a good reason. I like what Winters says "There was a lot of hatred in his heart." I wonder who's the more selfish one now? Hey Real your forgot this... What a crybaby.</div> Thanks for the comment :thumbsup: Yeah, I really didn't think it was this bad. I have been saying that Shaq's selfishness (not Kobe's, like many people assume) was the reason why this team was gearing up for a major train wreck, if that's what you'd like to call it. I've downloaded all of those movies and clips off LakersGround (you know what I'm talking about), and Kobe passes to Shaq more than anyone else passes to...well...anyone else. Guys assume that he doesn't because Shaq creates his own shot after the pass, giving Kobe nothing in the assist column...and I am starting to wonder if Shaq even realized how easy it was for him, also. Sure, it was easy for Kobe...but Shaq barely had to move around in the paint...step to the side, then back in...because Kobe literally hand-delivered his points to him. This book really shed some new light on how Shaq is as a teammate and as a human being. He did it to Penny, and then wanted him on the Lakers...then he did it to Kobe, yet said he was the best player in the league. Wade is in for a helluva storm when Shaq tries to take over Miami, and I don't know how many times I've said this...but now, I think I've got enough evidence.
great Article! I was watching a ducumentry on kobe and they said that the team would make fun of kobe if he didn't go out with them to the bar or something. man i've been in kobes setuation and i've quit the team. 5 year of taking crap from shaq wow!
man I wish i knew the whole story between those two I wonder what happened at the very begining to cause such a rift. I dont like Kobe as a a person, not because of what he does on the hardwood its because he is such a secretive person and a loner. ANd I can relate to that. I respect the mans game trumendously, hes hands down the best guard in the league. No im not a Lakers fan but i did live in LA during the first championship and every one called me a laker hater because i liked the blazers. Kobe is the kind of person who doesnt want attention from other men and just doesnt like to be around them if it aint about bball. He and shaq should just shut up about the whole insident, its over! BUt we are all waiting for Xmas who will be posterized? will kobe dunk over Shaq or will Shaq throw it out of the building. either way it wil be the greatest poster of all times.
What Can I Say,The Virus Is Gone. After all he did to Kobe its hard to beleive that for 8 years Kobe didint vent out his anger which actually shows how tolerant and patient he is, it shows how much class and character he really has. Kobe was the Heart of the team Shaq was just the body.
Thanks a lot Real for putting up that excerpt from Phil's book. I've always admired Kobe's work ethic and his will to be the best, but now I have a whole new respect for him. It took a lot of patience and class to take all of that BS from Shaq. I was a bigger Shaq fan than Kobe fan a few years ago. I started to lose respect for Shaq when he would start every season since the first championship more and more out of shape than the previous year, and when he didn't have his toe operation until right before the start of the '02-'03 season. His excuse was, "I hurt it on company time, I'll fix it on company time." That showed me how selfish he really was. Since then, I was only a Shaq fan because he was a Laker. Now I have no reason to cheer for him. I can't wait till Christmas to see Kobe posterize Shaq. After reading that excerpt and now knowing how much Shaq hates Kobe, I hope he doesn't try to take a cheap shot to injure Kobe.
everybody that thinks Kobe is selfish and arrogant should really read that article. this could totally change their whole perspective of the shaq vs. kobe argument.
These books by 3rd parties can never be trusted. Every one I have ever read has come under fire from the parties involved. I doubt this is much different. This is just someone writing a book off of hearsay so they could sell some books...thats usually always the case. Anyone remember The Jordan Rules? Or those books about Charles Barkley? I chalk this up to a writer trying to stir some controversy. All of you screaming that all the stuff about Kobe's police report shouldn't be taken seriously needs to heed the same advice with this. Same coin,different side. Unless you hear it from Jackson/Winter themsevles I wouldn't pay this much attention.
The author of that book also wrote another one about how great Kobe is, so I would say he's biased. Some of those claims also circulated in the papers here, however, there is always two sides to a story so u take it with a grain of salt.
Well, even though there's always a second story to everything...I just watched the SportsCentury feature on Kobe...and guys like Fisher, Ceballos, Winter, and even Phil Jackson himself were commenting on how Kobe was being treated in the locker room, how Shaq slapped him once, etc. Pretty sad, really. Shaq commented on Kobe in a press conference, saying that he told Kobe that he was his idol. The reporters all laughed, but Shaq stopped them and said that he wasn't joking, and that Kobe was the best player in the league right now, and he did it with no chuckles or wise cracks. I don't understand how he could go from saying that, to calling him a clown and a weirdo.
Its simple Shaq is a random person he says what he wants whenever he wants too. He doesnt care what anyone thinks and will say anything not thinking about what hes done in the past as long as the statement he says right there and then applies to what has happened and the mood hes in. Basically hes a very moody and confused person and loves attention.
shaq slapped Kobe? wow thats pretty sad... imagine how kobe mustve felt going through all of that.. all of his teamates hating on him. its a wonder he's still in LA after all this time. poor guy, u cant help but feel sorry for him at the same time admire him...
Yha i read the slap article in a the La times few days ago i also read that evertime Kobe was in the locker room with shaq and reporters came to talk to shaq, shaq would point at kobe and say theers the problem of the team heres the quotes. Friction between Bryant and O'Neal was a constant in their eight Laker seasons. Even before they played a regular-season game together, O'Neal began calling Bryant "Showboat" and "Hollywood." O'Neal slapped Bryant during a pickup game in January 1999, and later that season the 7-foot-1 center would point across the locker room and tell reporters that Bryant was the team's problem.
Honest opinion: O'Neal was just mad that he could be outshined by such a young kid. That's all it is. In a way, O'Neal feared him. That's just my way of looking at it.
^^^And maybe that's why he loves it in Miami, after being a Laker made him the star that he is today.
The way I look at it, Shaq has his way and if his teammates don't go his way he'll say that they have their own ways and that's why they're never on the same page. It's true Kobe's an individual-type of guy and I think it's understandable if he gets a lot of heat for it because it's not easy to relate to someone who doesn't open up. But Shaq's hatred is what has him going at Kobe, he could have been just cool with it like, "it's my life, it's his Kobe's life"... but he keeps coming at Kobe, it's Shaq's ugly hatred. Guys like that are team cancers, no matter how dominating he may have been, the Lakers did the right thing by trading him. He also said the Heat are Dwyane's team, I would love to see if that comment still sticks in Shaq's brain comes January, February.
