<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Zane:</div><div class="quote_post">how come you dont want to read it...dont you wanna find out what really happend last season</div> If I want to find out what really happened last season (and every season with Phil/Shaq/Kobe, I'd ask every single Laker from 1996 up until 2004. Otherwise, I'm taking the opinion of a guy that I really don't know if I can trust or not. Shapecity did make a good point...that Jerry West likes Kobe, and that right there makes me lean towards Bryant. Everyone needs to think of Phil this way: Phil was given alot of credit for making Michael Jordan the player he turned out to be. Some argued that once Phil arrived, he helped Jordan develop a great relationship with his teammates and a better game, in order to win 6 championships and for Jordan to win his MVP's and arguably the greatest player ever. Think...Phil Jackson was credited greatly for it. However, he arrived in Los Angeles with Shaq and Kobe already there...same situation as the Bulls with MJ and Pippen. Well, Kobe's comparisons to Jordan probably got on Jackson's nerves. Why? Ask yourself this: who do most people give credit to (other than Kobe himself) for making Bryant the player that he is today? Phil...or Shaq? I hear alot of guys saying that Shaq helped Kobe significantly...alot more than Phil. In other words...is it possible that Phil is jealous? Who gets credit for the three championships, or all of the Lakers' success? Alot of guys say Shaq...and alot say Kobe...both...but nobody brings up Phil Jackson in comparison to how many times they bring up the dynamic duo. I believe Jackson is bitter towards the organization and Kobe. Why Kobe? Because he began to turn everyone's attention from Shaq (Jackson's "man" that he wanted to share a legacy with) to himself...and since Phil wasn't being credited for making Kobe "the next Jordan" or anything close, then he lost it. Think about it. If you were Phil, and you were already given credit for Jordan...how would you feel if the next big thing in the NBA is running the show by himself, and if anyone getting the credit, it was Shaq...your very own dominant player? I saw it coming.
But Phil wouldn't outright lie about what happened with regards to Kobe. That would be slander, and he could get into a lot of trouble. There's probably a lot of truth in there. I've read the excerpt and its about what I'd expect, as far as how he describes the feud between Kobe and Shaq. Kobe is spoiled and arrogant, and Shaq is too though he's more coachable.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Shaq is too though he's more coachable.</div>Here's a quote from coach Winter regarding coaching Snaq. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">As for O'Neal, Winter said, "My main concern is that I don't want him to be satisfied with where he is. I want him to realize what he's doing wrong, even on the freethrows.......He's not easy to coach. He has kind of a resentment for anybody to tell him anything that he's doing wrong. He's not an easy guy to coach. I think Phil treads very softly on Shaq, Winter said. "I think he still is trying to read the situation as to what is the best way to motivate Shaq. I don't think he knows yet. And I certainly don't know." </div>
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">But Phil wouldn't outright lie about what happened with regards to Kobe. That would be slander, and he could get into a lot of trouble. There's probably a lot of truth in there. I've read the excerpt and its about what I'd expect, as far as how he describes the feud between Kobe and Shaq. Kobe is spoiled and arrogant, and Shaq is too though he's more coachable.</div> Shaq is more coachable? Shaq never made the efforts to stay in shape and work on his free throw shooting or dominate on defense, otherwise, I think he would still be in a Laker uniform. Kobe has improved every season adding the necessary strength and conditioning to his game and adding new offensive skills each year. He's had to hold back a lot of his talent to cater to the big fella. I think he's sacrificed more personal goals than Shaq has to help the Lakers win titles. Shaq's salary demands were the reason he was traded. He forced the Lakers to deal him while he still had trade value because he wanted to make even more money after his current contract expires. He put the pressure on the Lakers to give into his demands or move on with their future...Kobe. They choose Kobe, as would any other owner in the league. The feud between the two has just been a sideshow for everyone. Both of them have ego problems and all superstars do, we just hear more about the problems between Shaq and Kobe, because the Lakers are one of the most watched teams in professional sports. But to get back to my argument, Kobe is by far the more coachable player. He's first to the gym and last to leave. He studies game film over and over to get the edge on his opponent. The only thing that would make Shaq easier to coach is because there is less to work with.
Here are some stuff from an interview that Phil gave the LA times that I found interesting. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I asked him whether his inability to connect with Bryant was the biggest regret of a coaching career that featured three championships in Los Angeles with Bryant and Shaquille O'Neal and six in Chicago with Michael Jordan and the Bulls. "The biggest regret is not finding a way to resolve the conflict that kept Kobe and Shaq from playing as well as they could together, from being a part of team," Jackson said after a lengthy pause. "Then the team was broken up. That's probably my biggest regret, that I wasn't able to come in and heal all those wounds. I'm not a professional psychologist, even though that's a lot of times what coaches do." He said the strain on Bryant and the franchise created by the "exacerbating situation" of the felony sexual assault charge against Bryant kept the two from bonding last season ? and ultimately kept the team from winning a championship. In all probability, the relationship was already beyond repair. "I think there were things that happened that were unfortunate," Jackson said. "I made a comment sometime in his second year that I regretted saying because it hurt Kobe. That was I had heard that he sabotaged games in high school. Even though I apologized for it, I think it never really reached a form where Kobe could deal with an apology in that form. "I really think that other than that, we went on a pretty good ride, until perhaps maybe the fourth year. There were some sticky things in the fourth year. It had to do with dealing with losing and accommodating teammates. I came back with every intent of trying to find a way through that. But it never got resolved, which I kind of rue. I rue that." Jackson has regret, but not bitterness "I want to see the Lakers do well," Jackson said. "I want to see this team have success." He said Jerry Buss has invited him to watch a game from his suite at Staples Center, and he plans to take him up on the offer. Jackson said he's rooting for the Lakers to play O'Neal's new team, the Miami Heat, in the NBA Finals. He won't be sitting courtside with the ABC broadcast crew for their Christmas matchup, however, choosing to finally spend the holiday with his family. "I'm taking a hiatus from basketball this year," Jackson said. "You won't see me on any broadcasts." </div>
^ [edit: made for Durvusa's comment on the "arrogant jerk" subject, I didnt realize 6 other people psoted while I was typing] Negativity is what sells in the media. You don't see players who donate tons of money to a chairty or helping out the community do you? No, instead we only see them for whatever crime or something bad they've done. I'm pretty sure Kobe also got some compliments from Phil as well but they are overshadowed by the negatives. I also find Jerry West's position on Kobe intriguing as well. Kobe has this picture now painted o nhim just like Vince Carter does as a injury-prone player, even if he only missed 9 games last year. It will take years and some winnign to get rid of it. Winning changes everything.
"Coachable" wasn't the right word. From the excerpt, it appears that Shaq is easier to deal with on a personal level. Maybe Phil just got a long better with Shaq than Kobe, and so that's why it appears that way.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting spawn:</div><div class="quote_post"> Negativity is what sells in the media. You don't see players who donate tons of money to a chairty or helping out the community do you? No, instead we only see them for whatever crime or something bad they've done. I'm pretty sure Kobe also got some compliments from Phil as well but they are overshadowed by the negatives. I also find Jerry West's position on Kobe intriguing as well. Kobe has this picture now painted o nhim just like Vince Carter does as a injury-prone player, even if he only missed 9 games last year. It will take years and some winnign to get rid of it. Winning changes everything.</div> I dunno. I think Phil Jackson's take is probably more insightful on what kind of person Kobe Bryant is than a few scattered compliments Jerry West might have given. You can say someone is a good person, and no one will really question it. Phil Jackson goes into quite a bit of detail about his personal dealings with Bryant, and that probably gives a more complete picture. Anyways, I'm not THAT interested in how good/bad a person Kobe Bryant was in the past. He's a fun player to watch, and it looks like he's making a serious effort this year to become a real leader and interact with his teammates more off the court as well. I expect great things from him this year.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">I dunno. I think Phil Jackson's take is probably more insightful on what kind of person Kobe Bryant is than a few scattered compliments Jerry West might have given. You can say someone is a good person, and no one will really question it. Phil Jackson goes into quite a bit of detail about his personal dealings with Bryant, and that probably gives a more complete picture. Anyways, I'm not THAT interested in how good/bad a person Kobe Bryant was in the past. He's a fun player to watch, and it looks like he's making a serious effort this year to become a real leader and interact with his teammates more off the court as well. I expect great things from him this year.</div> Jerry West is one the top three GMs of all time and he's been doing it for a long time. He's a great evaluator of talent and character, so I think your comment about "a few scattered compliments," is far off. Jerry West scouted and then gambled away Vlade Divac to bring in Kobe Bryant. There are plenty of articles going into detail about West's desire to get Kobe and how he fought to get his man on the Lakers. Jerry West admires Kobe, and he's not the only GM in the league who holds Kobe in high regard. As for Kobe and Phil's problems, maybe they just don't get along with their views on life, their approach to the game, or the lack of communication between each other. Any of those problems is going to lead to ill feelings and we tend to remember those feelings over the good ones. I think they have a clash in personalities. Phil Jackson knows how to express his feelings into words and seems like a very down to earth person. Kobe on the other hand seems to be more reserved and not as outspoken as Phil.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">Jerry West is one the top three GMs of all time and he's been doing it for a long time. He's a great evaluator of talent and character, so I think your comment about "a few scattered compliments," is far off. Jerry West scouted and then gambled away Vlade Divac to bring in Kobe Bryant. There are plenty of articles going into detail about West's desire to get Kobe and how he fought to get his man on the Lakers. Jerry West admires Kobe, and he's not the only GM in the league who holds Kobe in high regard. </div> I'm sure he holds Kobe in high regard as a player, as a competitor. As a human being, who really knows. I mean, Jerry West wouldn't publicly call any player he recruited a bad person. I'm sure if a reporter asked him about his personal feelings regarding Kobe as a human being, he'll be nice. He's still a GM, and it would be a poor decision on his part to criticize the character of high profile athlete that worked for him.
I think alot of things that are said have been a little inflated. What I get from the whole situation is that all three of them had some problem or should i say disagreement in how they viewed things. However just remember one thing about the book it was written by one person about a situation that involved a group of people. So don't go taking phils comments as fact as since its his book it will have a slant to it leaning toward how he viwed the situation and only provide his opinion on why things were how they were. There might be some details to certain situations but we don't know exactly how they occured and why. Only the people involved do, so just remember this is from phils point of view. That being said there is almost always some truth behind whatever is said. I wasn't going to read the book at first but my dad bought it for me so I feel the temptation will be too great.
On Phils recent interview with ESPN (which I saw on ESPN Motion), Phil withdraws some of his choice of words and seems to give a slightly different spin on it. Phil says the words "psychological war" was a poor choice of words on his part, and he wishes he could change it. It was a "psychological battle." I don't see the big difference, lol .. Also, he says that Kobe was tired of being Shaq's sidekick, but that he understands how Kobe feels. According to Phil, "He (Kobe) wanted an equal partnership deal, and that never happened."
