<div class="quote_poster">Quoting notMuchgame:</div><div class="quote_post">When the game is on the line and the clocking running down, you have to step out on the player u are guarding, even at halfcourt. That's basketball 101. The Sonics threw a pick with Allen running down the court, and Kobe got hit without seeing it. One of the other lakers switched onto Allen, but didn't have the speed to stay with him. The others just watched instead of collapsing into the paint. I agree that it was bad defense, but for someone who was posting about team ball in the other thread, you seem to miss the concept of team defense and instead focus on one-on-one, which wasn't the case on that play.</div> How is that "basketball 101"? Ray was not going to attempt a Jerry West, there was enough time on the clock for them to run a set play. I understand the concept of team ball, and I also realize that Shaq failed to rotate. Regardless, Kobe should have gotten around that pick (even if his teammtes didn't call it out for him. Besides, getting beaten off of a pick does show a lack of one individual defensive ability. Remember how TP owned GP in the Lakers-Spurs series this year? Everyone wa questioning GP's defense. GP made a statement saying that "what fans don't see if that Parker is coming off of screens and hitting open shots, it's not that he's beating me off the dribble." Nobody really cared when he said that, excuses are like a 16 year old orphan, nobody wants one. You can make excuses about the screen that was set. But when the game was on the line you have to expect that sort of thing.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post">Bottom line, Ray Allen should worry about what is going on in his locker room more than he should worry about what is going on in the Lakers locker room. I don't buy your grown men theory. These guys are professional athletes. They aren't getting paid to assess the personal characteristics of their opponents. He should be smart enough to understand when it is appropriate to fully disclose your opinions to the media. This was unnecessary and unprofessional.</div> Unnecessary, sure. But I don't see how its unprofessional. Players are asked to asses other teams and other players all the time. Everyone does it. Jordan did it. Hakeem did it. Barkley did it. Are you saying its unprofessional because what he said wasn't totally positive? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You misinterpreted my last post. In my opinion Kobe doesn't try to do anything extra against the Sonics, he is just his normal aggressive self. I think that he respects Ray Allen's talents, but at the same time I don't think that he is playing to prove that he is a better player. In his mind, and in the minds of most other people, he has already proven himself to be better than Ray Allen.</div> Really? Check the boxscore the Lakers-Seattle game yesterday. Kobe scored 2 points in 9 minutes. So, according to you, Kobe wouldn't have tried to score more points if Ray Allen was playing? Look, all the great players play extra hard against other great players. This isn't something to look down upon. They want to validate people's opinions. And did you see the Lakers-Seattle game earlier in the preseason? Kobe was answering Ray Allen shots with his own shots and trash talking. It's obvious that he was being extra aggressive against him. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Ray was the leading vote getter for the All Interview team. This is b/c he talks entirely too much and too candidly with the media. Say what you want, but Allen's comments as a whole do much more harm than good.</div> I agree he is candid. What I don't understand is why you think this is bad. And how is it harmful? If anything, its made their matchups more interesting for fans. It's boring when players only praise eachother, and aren't willing to point out eachother's faults. If Ray Allen at some points said it was wrong for another player to criticize his game in the media, then I can understand you finding that hypocritical -- but he hasn't. He dishes it out, and I'm sure he'll take it. I don't see what the problem is.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Supersonic:</div><div class="quote_post"><font size="1">Full Story courtesy of Percy Allen and the Seattle Times.</font> Wow. Guess Kobe is still cut up about being Ray's bitch. On a different note, has anyone else noticed that Allen has really started to develop an attitude over the past six months, and not for the good either. Maybe it was there all along, and I just didn't see it, but he seems to have a real smugness about him now, like it's his team.</div> I am pissed at Ray because I always liked him as a player before he jumped on the Hate Kobe Bandwagon saying bull<font color="Blue">****</font> comments about the game. Kobe wants to play Ray, Ray couldn't cuz his back but on December 14th(I think thats right) Kobe/Allen dispute will be solved because I am sure both players will come with there best game that day. <font color="Blue">Watch the language - Shard</font>
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post"> I agree he is candid. What I don't understand is why you think this is bad. And how is it harmful? If anything, its made their matchups more interesting for fans. It's boring when players only praise eachother, and aren't willing to point out eachother's faults. If Ray Allen at some points said it was wrong for another player to criticize his game in the media, then I can understand you finding that hypocritical -- but he hasn't. He dishes it out, and I'm sure he'll take it. I don't see what the problem is.</div> From the outside looking in I can understand why you don't think that this is a big deal. But ask anyone who follows the Sonics consistently and they will tell you that Allen voices his opinions about everything. Go to the either the Seattle Times, Post Intelliger, or Tacoma Sports newspaper archive section and you will see when Ray complained or ranted about: Sonics travel arrangements (uncontrollable airline delays) Ronald Murray's shot selection (when he was playing very well) Brent Barry contract negotiations (giving management ultimatums in regards to his plans) Vladimir Radmonovic inability to play the post (which was valid but not necessary to go through the media) Jerome James commitment and work ethic (which was valid) The direction of the franchise (valid) His future w/ the Sonics (contract negotiations) Luke Ridnour's minutes (lobbying for) Nate McMillian's coaching philosophies Bruce Bowen's aggressive defense Receiving criticism for being selected to the All Star Game (Andre Miller thought that he didn't play in enough games) Receiving criticism for withdrawing his name from the Olympics Kobe's motives on the court Players demanding trades George Karl's negative influence Glen Robinson's selfishness Tim Thomas not being worth his salary There are probably more but these are the ones that come off the top of my head. Here is a perfect example of what type of a person Ray Allen is. Ronald Murray scored 19, 24, and 28 points in three consecutive games coming off of the bench. The Sonics lost all three games (@Dallas, @San Antonio, and @LA Lakers) but Murray spearheaded the rallies in those games. After the Lakers game Allen went to the media and complained that Ronald Murray didn't pass him the ball enough. The next game against the Pistons at home he claimed to be sick and sat out the game. The Sonics were blown out. The following game against the T'Wolves Allen scored 42 points in a loss. Exactly how sick was Allen if he could come back two days removed from his illness and score 42 points? He wanted to make a point to his team that he was the unquestioned star. Instead of going about it in a professional way, he used the media to try to undermine the contributions of Flip Murray and then faked an illness to bring the attention back on to him. There is no question that Ray Allen is one of the best shooting guards in the league. That being said he still is a clown. That's why I'm siding w/ Kobe in this case.
You can also add accusations of the league rigging playoffs games to the list of things that Ray has complained about. However, I think that you shouldn't list the Olympic criticism as as reason, that applies to Kobe and many other players as well. As for Tim Thomas, he isn't worth what he is making.
IronSheik, its clear that you've followed the Sonics and Ray's interviews much more closely than I, so I'll yield. The only problem I'd have with a player is if he said stuff to the media which hurt his team's cohesiveness/chemistry. Other than that, I think players should feel free to say whatever they want, as long as they understand and accept any the backlash.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">IronSheik, its clear that you've followed the Sonics and Ray's interviews much more closely than I, so I'll yield. The only problem I'd have with a player is if he said stuff to the media which hurt his team's cohesiveness/chemistry. Other than that, I think players should feel free to say whatever they want, as long as they understand and accept any the backlash.</div> I have absolutely no problems with him making those comments about Kobe, as long as he's prepared to back it up when we play the Lakers (in a real game) and wear it if he plays badly and/or we lose. However, I do have a problem with some of the things he does go through the media with, mainly to do with the team. These things should be kept in house, and Shiek is absolutely spot on in his arguments that Ray opens his mouth too loudly and too often in the media. If he wants Luke to play more minutes, he should go to the coach. If he has problems with a teammate, he should go directly to them. It is that simple. As for Barkley, MJ and the Dream, these guys are the cream of the crop. Ray is calling out a guy with three rings, while he's never been past the Conference Finals in the East.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jurassic:</div><div class="quote_post">How is that "basketball 101"? </div> Back pedaling is the worst type of defense you can play. If the ball handler gets the ball and gets up to full speed before the defender can engage, it's over. It leaves the ballhandler with too many options, not to mention a defender on his heals.. - Basketball 101. That's the reason why when u see teams have to go the length of the court, their opponents press the entire length of the court, they never let them dribble up to half court before they begin defending. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Besides, getting beaten off of a pick does show a lack of one individual defensive ability..</div> How does a (a pick) play that involves at least three players equate to individual defense? It essientially becomes two on one, doesn't it? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You can make excuses about the screen that was set. But when the game was on the line you have to expect that sort of thing.</div> No one is making excuses, but you seem to be trying to shift the blame all to one player. If you expect it, then what would you do? If you try to go around it, you already lose a step. <u>Defending picks is all about team defense,</u> - also basketball 101
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post">Ray Allen is a clown. Why go to the media about anything involving a player on another team? He called out Kobe in a preseason game saying that the Lakers aren't going to do well b/c Kobe tries to do everything on his own and b/c he isolates himself from his teammates. Why would you say that to the media? That is something that a high school athlete would say. Ray Allen told the media that Kobe called him up to tell him that he was going to "bust his ass." I'm sorry Sonics fans, Kobe is a better player than Ray Allen. I don't care what the stat line is when they play against each other. Kobe has three championships. I don't think that he is worried about his scoring output against the Sonics. I normally don't form opinions about the character of celebrities/athletes but I really don't like Ray Allen. He's the ultimate hypocrite. I should write my next JustBBall article on the "Miseducation of Ray Allen." Kobe is not in the wrong at all on this issue. What happens on the court shouldn't be distorted through the media. I can't emphasize enough how much of a clown I think that Ray Allen is. If the Sonics management has any nuts they would trade his whining ass before his trade value drops.</div> I totally agree with thim.... Ray Allen needs to learn to keep his mouth shut. There is a reason whey Glen, Tim and Kobe all wanna whoop his ass.
