I didn't like this signing by the Grizzlies in the first place. They are already stashed at the swingmen with posistion, and they drafted swingmen. Dahntay Jones, who IMO, would be a key player on any other team, still hasn't got good PT. I don't expect Cardinal to put up numbers like he did in GS, but I do expect him to give all of his effort and clean up everything.
He looks out of place with the Grizzlies. They say that he plays just like Shane Battier, but I just don't see it. I don't like how he's meshed with the rest of the team, and if we split the backup small forward spot between he and Shane then I think it will mess with our team's chemistry. I hope (and think) we will just use him as a reserve who we bring into blowout and injury situations.
I agree that he doesn't look like a great fit, but if he can bring the his renowned work ethic and willingness to do the dirty work, i think it'll work. I'm also hoping his outside shooting can give Pau more options down low (having another outside threat makes us less predictable).
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">but if he can bring the his renowned work ethic and willingness to do the dirty work, i think it'll work.</div> I know, but he hasn't shown any of that so far in the preseason. He's been somewhat of a bust for us thus far. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm also hoping his outside shooting can give Pau more options down low (having another outside threat makes us less predictable).</div> When would Gasol and Cardinal be on the floor at the same time? For that to happen, both Posey and Battier would have to be injured.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">When would Gasol and Cardinal be on the floor at the same time? For that to happen, both Posey and Battier would have to be injured.</div> Why would Jerry West sign him to a long deal unless he was prepared to use him? Battier is an excellent team player and is scrappy, but I think you underestimate just how good Cardinal was in Golden State last season. He made more than a few clutch plays, and is an underrated shooter and rebounder. One of those guys you recognise for their hustlke, which makes you underrate their actual abilities. I don't see any reason why you wouldn't see Gasol and Cardinal at the four and three, or the five and four, for periods in games.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Supersonic:</div><div class="quote_post">Why would Jerry West sign him to a long deal unless he was prepared to use him?</div> Jerry West signs, drafts, and trades for the best talent available regaurdless of position. West signed Tsakalidas to a big deal, but has he been playing him? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Battier is an excellent team player and is scrappy, but I think you underestimate just how good Cardinal was in Golden State last season. He made more than a few clutch plays, and is an underrated shooter and rebounder. One of those guys you recognise for their hustlke, which makes you underrate their actual abilities.</div> Are you implying that Cardinal is better than Battier? I'm sure Cardinal is better than what he has shown so far in this preseason, but you're underrating Battier if you think Cardinal is better. If anything, Cardinal is a poorman's Battier. Battier is our clutch player. He's one of our top shooters. He's one of our top rebounders. He definitely hustles more than anyone else on the team. Battier just does everything. Anyway, while Cardinal has a reputation for being the same kind of player, it hasn't come out with the Grizzlies so far. Players play differently on different teams. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't see any reason why you wouldn't see Gasol and Cardinal at the four and three, or the five and four, for periods in games.</div> You won't see them on the floor together for more than a few minutes because of the way that the Grizzlies' ten man rotation works. All the starters play their minutes, then Hubie takes them out and puts in the backups. No way is Cardinal going to start over Posey, and Battier has established his role as the backup small forward. The only way I see Cardinal fitting into the backup rotation is if he plays Power Forward, and the Golden State fans have told me that he can't play efficient minutes at Power Forward. So why would you see them on the floor at the same time?
I think that Cardinal will perform, but not as good as he used to in Golden State, now he's on a team where everyone gets equal minutes and they have a lot of swingmen so he's going to be battling for the backup SF spot every night. Cardinal is a good player he's just stuck on the wrong team, and I think it will mess up Team Chemistry.
His natural position is actually PF, even though he's a bit short at just 6'8". He just worked on his 3 point shooting since graduating and thus gets minutes at SF.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Zhone:</div><div class="quote_post">His natural position is actually PF, even though he's a bit short at just 6'8". He just worked on his 3 point shooting since graduating and thus gets minutes at SF.</div> I remember Cardinal being a "big-man" at Purdue, but that's the NCAA. Shane Battier is a natural Power Forward, but at 6-8 he's way too short to play the position. It's nearly impossible to be 6-9 or below and play proficient Power Forward in today's NBA. You'd have to be like Zach Randolph, and he's a huge, bulky, powerful 6-9 player with some of the league's best low post moves. Cardinal is not huge, bulky, powerful, nor does he have some of the league's best low post moves. I'm sure Cardinal can play Power Forward, but I just can't imagine Cardinal playing twenty minutes at Power Forward every night for more than 82 games. Can you imagine him trying to play against Duncan, Brand, Wallace, etc.? Besides, he has been playing Small Forward for the Grizzlies in the preseason.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Jerry West signs, drafts, and trades for the best talent available regaurdless of position. West signed Tsakalidas to a big deal, but has he been playing him</div> Word, look at the logjam at SG/SF: Mike Miller Bonzi Wells James Posey Shane Battier Brian Cardinal Dahntay Jones Andre Emmett Even at the PG he has J-Will, Watson, Bell and Burks.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">Jerry West signs, drafts, and trades for the best talent available regaurdless of position. </div> Brian Cardinal was the "best talent available" when Jerry signed him?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jerry West:</div><div class="quote_post">Brian Cardinal was the "best talent available" when Jerry signed him?</div> You bet your ass he was. Who else would have been out there who would have settled for the Mid-Level Exception on the Grizzlies?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">You bet your ass he was. Who else would have been out there who would have settled for the Mid-Level Exception on the Grizzlies?</div> Did he need to sign anyone though? It's not like the forward spots are a weakness on Memphis' roster, particularly the three spot. On one hand you're saying Cardinal won't get any significant minutes, on the other you're saying he was the best talent available for the MLE. But why sign him over a longterm deal if it's just as insurance?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Supersonic:</div><div class="quote_post">Did he need to sign anyone though? It's not like the forward spots are a weakness on Memphis' roster, particularly the three spot.</div> Sure, the addition of Cardinal wasn't completely necessary, but it didn't hurt. The Grizzlies didn't need to trade for Bonzi Wells last year either, but they did. Just because the Grizzlies roster was set doesn't mean that they shouldn't have made any offseason moves. Are you telling me Tsakalidas was a necessary addition? When we signed him we had a 16-player roster, and it's not like he's going to see any playing time for the next few years. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">On one hand you're saying Cardinal won't get any significant minutes, on the other you're saying he was the best talent available for the MLE. But why sign him over a longterm deal if it's just as insurance?</div> That's exactly what I'm saying, and those two statements don't contradict eachother. I have no idea what Jerry West's gameplan is. Maybe he has a trade in line that will send one of the swingmen elsewhere, maybe he's expecting one of them to leave during free agency, maybe he's expecting an injury to occur to at least one of the four swingmen, or perhaps he just really likes Brian Cardinal. Whatever the case is, he signed him and he won't be getting many minutes next season. Some moves West makes just can't be explained. Was drafting Gooden #4 over Butler when we already had Gasol explainable? Was drafting a Point Guard and a Small Forward in this year's draft explainable? Was signing big Jake to a long-term deal explainable? I'm just trusting that he has a purpose for Cardinal and am not trying to think to hard about what it is right now. All I know is that I'm looking at the roster and Cardinal does not fit in anywhere but as a secondary reserve.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">You bet your ass he was. Who else would have been out there who would have settled for the Mid-Level Exception on the Grizzlies?</div> Now you're adding riders to the claim. He may have been 'the best available player who would come to the Grizzlies and settle for the MLE', but he certainly was not the 'best available player'.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jerry West:</div><div class="quote_post">Now you're adding riders to the claim. He may have been 'the best available player who would come to the Grizzlies and settle for the MLE', but he certainly was not the 'best available player'.</div> Well you're taking the word 'available' the wrong way. Does available mean a player who is unsigned or a player who is available for the Grizzlies' taking? To me the term implies the latter. Dampier, Kobe, Rasheed, etc. were obviously out of the question, so in that way he was the best player available.
so in that way he was the best player available.[/QUOTE] Warrior season ticket holder here. You guys are going to be happy with Brian. Everybody out here wishes we could of retained him. He is a scrapper, with a beautiful jump shot, and a consistent three when not pressured. Their is no doubt he won some games for the W's towards the end of the game, whether it was key rebounds, driving in for fouls or diving for lose balls. He is a team player, if it seems like he is slow in the pre-season he is just probably trying to find his place on the team.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Warrior season ticket holder here. You guys are going to be happy with Brian. Everybody out here wishes we could of retained him. He is a scrapper, with a beautiful jump shot, and a consistent three when not pressured. Their is no doubt he won some games for the W's towards the end of the game, whether it was key rebounds, driving in for fouls or diving for lose balls. He is a team player, if it seems like he is slow in the pre-season he is just probably trying to find his place on the team.</div> I know Cardinal is an exceptional player, and I also might be too quick to judge, but I don't see where he fits in on our team. The problem isn't whether or not he has enough talent. The problem is where that talent fits in with the rest of the team. Team chemistry is very important. What if Brian Cardinal gets left out of the ten man rotation? Does anyone think he'll get upset? I'm hoping that for the first few seasons in Memphis he'll accept his position as basically a secondary reserve and an insurance policy. I'm sure after time there will be a spot opened up for him. Everyone forward the roster is not going to be with the team two years from now.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">Well you're taking the word 'available' the wrong way. Does available mean a player who is unsigned or a player who is available for the Grizzlies' taking? To me the term implies the latter. Dampier, Kobe, Rasheed, etc. were obviously out of the question, so in that way he was the best player available.</div> You're not the type to ever admit that you're wrong (or that others views have some truth to them), are you mate. Given that you'll never give an inch, not worth the effort of arguing/discussing the issue.
