<div class="quote_poster">Quoting GiantMidget:</div><div class="quote_post">Let me clear up the confusion by saying i never said the lakers would finish third, that quote was taken from someone elses post but it looks like i posted it because im a new member and cant use the "quote message" feature yet.Get it?</div> Are you using the Reply button at the bottom right of each post? That should quote the member. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting GiantMidget:</div><div class="quote_post">The suns arent my team i only mentioned them because i think they'll be competitive with LA for 2nd in the pacific.Needed a team to use as an example to put the lakers team into perspective for anyone who isnt already a laker lover, since theyre already convinced they'll be a top playoff seed.</div> I just realized you're a Kings fan. So, since you are picking at the Lakers, I have a question: who's your backup PF? What about your backup center? I hear Ostertag is already injured, as well as Webber...but what if you have another repeat of last year? This time, Divac isn't going to be there when Miller rolls down to play PF. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting GiantMidget:</div><div class="quote_post">Brian grant is already undersized and playing in the west will only make it harder for him to be effective.</div> Grant isn't playing center, so if he's undersized, how big should you be to play PF? <div class="quote_poster">Quoting GiantMidget:</div><div class="quote_post">Vlade is old and slow "Vlade cant guard noboday".He is,however, the best passing big man and will be good for their offense.LA's big men rotation is simply too flimsy to compete in the west.</div> Actually, we didn't even have a big man rotation last year...or since 1998 or so. Shaq was the only guy we had, next to Medvedenko, who's actually a power forward. And Vlade can't guard nobody? He sure does well racking up fouls against Shaq, the only guy who can do it every game. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting GiantMidget:</div><div class="quote_post">Also, since when is tierre brown capable of being a starter and comparable to steve francis? Thats nuts.</div> I didn't compare him to Francis. It's the same guy who embarassed Steve in training camp a few years back, that's all. That doesn't mean he's better than Francis. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting GiantMidget:</div><div class="quote_post">Lastly i dont know how you can brand me as someone that thinks star studded talent will always push further than a team with chemistry when i made the point that LA is a team of players that are new to eachother,hence little to no chemistry...</div> Well, explain the Kings then. They should have chemistry, and they have stars, yet they don't have anything to show for it. Also, tell that to Heat fans who believe Shaq and Wade are winning a ring this year, or Nugget fans...or Rocket fans. Magic fans. Alot of teams are new to each other...at least their main go-to guys...so why does it have to be the Lakers that fail? Team chemistry and unity can develop immediately, or it can take forever...or never develop. The Lakers of the past had team chemistry, but never unity. The Lakers of now already have team unity...so we'll see how long it takes for the chemistry to develop. Everyone expects an MVP, scoring title, Finals MVP and a championship from Kobe, or else he'll be considered a failure. And yes...that's what everyone believes will have to happen before he "proves himself" or whatever. People fail to realize that Shaq played for five seasons on the Magic and four on the Lakers before winning anything. Jordan played 7 seasons on the Bulls before winning. However, Tim Duncan played two seasons before winning...so that pretty much eliminates the theory of taking a while to develop team chemistry, if Duncan can pretty much walk onto the Spurs' team, become the go-to guy, and use up a year to develop team chemistry, a second year player, and win a ring. It's very possible that the Lakers surprise everyone, including their biggest critics...and then what? What happens after that?
Is it really any surprise people expect those things from Kobe? Could it be possible that he brings it upon himself somewhat? He is probably the most naturally gifted player of the past decade. However, does he put his head down, keep his mouth shut and those sorts of things? No he doesn't. He is very egotistical, he can be very selfish and he can act like a spoilt brat on the court. Remember the streak of 40 point games? I remember watching him trying to keep it going against the Sonics - while the game was in the balance, Kobe was putting up all sorts of shots to try and get to 40. He got there, but they lost the game. I can overlook Shaq having a dig, as we know they're both larger than life characters and the team wasn't big enough for both. But when Phil Jackson comes out and starts attacking Kobe for his selfish ways and attitude? Then I start to take a bit more notice. Kobe has put himself in this situation where he is finally the main star on his team, which is exactly why people will consider it a failure if he doesn't deliver.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Supersonic:</div><div class="quote_post">Is it really any surprise people expect those things from Kobe? Could it be possible that he brings it upon himself somewhat? He is probably the most naturally gifted player of the past decade. However, does he put his head down, keep his mouth shut and those sorts of things? No he doesn't.</div> When has Kobe ran his mouth? If you say the Ray Allen incident, I'll laugh. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Supersonic:</div><div class="quote_post">He is very egotistical, he can be very selfish and he can act like a spoilt brat on the court. Remember the streak of 40 point games? I remember watching him trying to keep it going against the Sonics - while the game was in the balance, Kobe was putting up all sorts of shots to try and get to 40. He got there, but they lost the game.</div> Then go criticize the others for performing similar streaks, like Jordan, Wilt and Iverson. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Supersonic:</div><div class="quote_post">I can overlook Shaq having a dig, as we know they're both larger than life characters and the team wasn't big enough for both. But when Phil Jackson comes out and starts attacking Kobe for his selfish ways and attitude? Then I start to take a bit more notice. Kobe has put himself in this situation where he is finally the main star on his team, which is exactly why people will consider it a failure if he doesn't deliver.</div> If Phil is telling the truth, why is it that Fisher and the other Lakers (Ceballos also) told a different story on the True Hollywood feature on Kobe? They told stories about him being mistreated by Shaq, being slapped, etc. In fact, even Tex Winter mentioned that Phil loved Shaq, and never paid any respect to Kobe as a player. How many times was Shaq pulled early from a winning game in the 4th quarter, to get his standing ovation? Numerous times. What about Kobe? Hardly ever. In the second championship season, who's stats went unnoticed? Kobe's, which read something similar to 29 PPG, 6 RPG and 5 APG. Selfish? I'll talk selfish...when you have a center who says, "Five assists aren't enough." Well, it looked to me as if every Kobe pass to Shaq that was NOT an oop was NOT an assist, either...seeing that Shaq nearly always created his own shot under the rim. Unfortunately, Kobe's statline doesn't tell how many PASSES were to Shaq, not just assists. People are denying Kobe before he even steps out on the court, and that's plain stupid. Don't compare him to Iverson or McGrady...don't compare him to anyone at all...just watch. Give him a few seasons before branding him a "failure" and saying that he couldn't do it without Shaq...because I've yet to see anyone win a championship by themselves, anyways. Jordan had Pippen and Phil, Hakeem had Drexler and Rudy T, and Shaq had Kobe and Phil (and vice versa). Stack the odds, go ahead...but don't start judging Kobe by his past performances or his "attitude" when he has yet to have the chance to prove he's one of the best ever.
I am not trying to put down Kobe. I like the guy, I think he gets less credit than he deserves for his role in three titles, and when he's on, there aren't many better to watch. However, it really annoys me when Laker fans always come up with an excuse to defend him, and always find someone else to blame - whether that be Shaq, Phil Jackson, Ray Allen or whoever, when he gets himself involved in verbal wars. There's one common demoninator there. If Shaq and Phil claim Kobe forced Shaq out of Los Angeles, but then someone else comes out and says different, then wham, The former two are automatically lying and just trying to bring Kobe down. Now either there's one hell of a war against Kobe, or the reason people are gunning to see him fail has something to do with his own personality and the way he handles himself on and off the court.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Supersonic:</div><div class="quote_post"> I remember watching him trying to keep it going against the Sonics - while the game was in the balance, Kobe was putting up all sorts of shots to try and get to 40. He got there, but they lost the game.</div> Actually, the Lakers won that game
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting notMuchgame:</div><div class="quote_post">Actually, the Lakers won that game </div> They did too, my bad. I just remember Phil coming out after the game and chewing Kobe for putting his own game ahead of the team's.
By the way, there was an article in the Orlando Sentinel that read something like this: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The team around him [Kobe] looks eerily like the cast of characters that once surrounded Jordan when he was winning championships annually. Small forward Lamar Odom becomes Scottie Pippen. Power forward Brian Grant becomes Horace Grant. Center Chris Mihm becomes Luc Longley. Point guard Chucky Atkins becomes B.J. Armstrong. Sixth man Caron Butler could be Ron Harper. Veteran Vlade Divac is Bill Cartwright.</div> Full article here (free registration): www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/basketball/magic/orl-sptnbacon31103104oct31,1,5760411.story?coll=orl-magic And with that said, it just reminds me of a 90's Bulls team that people criticized and doubted, right before they won their first championship.
If Kobe learns to make his teammates better the way MJ did, then there's life left in the Lakers ship yet.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Supersonic:</div><div class="quote_post">If Kobe learns to make his teammates better the way MJ did, then there's life left in the Lakers ship yet.</div> Well, even though it was the preseason, there's already shades of that. Look at Brian Cook's shooting and Chris Mihm's defensive presence (although I think Mihm was always a decent player).
I think the area where the Lakers are going to surprise a lot of people is defense. I've been very impressed with the speed, effort, and cohesiveness displayed on that end in the preseason. They're switching and rotating as good as I've seen them in years, and while Mihm isn't Shaq, he's doing a good job of protecting the basket. However, defensive rebounding is where I'm concerned. While they have good rebounders acoss the board (Mihm, Odom, Kobe, Buter), they've been too anxious about running and they often forget the ball. In addition, I think this offense is going to struggle to score against good defenses. Rudy T's offense still looks a bit too simple in the half court.
