Defamation of character, for $15K. Apparently young Daniel is angry about Jerry Colangelo labelling him a 'thug' after the incident involving Carbarkapa last season, and then both Colangelo's and the newspaper in question's refusal to retract the printed statement. Obviously not a cash issue here, just a personal one. To be fair, I called him a thug too after the incident in question, and suggested he should be suspended for as long as Zarko was out injured for.
I hope that he wins. Jerry Colangelo should have retracted the statement. The fact that he made a unnecessary flagrant foul has nothing to do with the character of Danny Fortson as a man. Would he publicly call Jason Kidd a "thug" when he was beating up his wife as a Sun? No, b/c despite the severity of the issue it wouldn't be his place to do so. Why try to destroy the character of Fortson? He has a family that reads the papers also. Jerry Colangelo should have recognized the mistake that he made in making that public statement. I think that he should have acknowledged that he could have used better judgment and retracted the comment.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post">I hope that he wins. Jerry Colangelo should have retracted the statement. The fact that he made a unnecessary flagrant foul has nothing to do with the character of Danny Fortson as a man. Would he publicly call Jason Kidd a "thug" when he was beating up his wife as a Sun? No, b/c despite the severity of the issue it wouldn't be his place to do so. Why try to destroy the character of Fortson? He has a family that reads the papers also. Jerry Colangelo should have recognized the mistake that he made in making that public statement. I think that he should have acknowledged that he could have used better judgment and retracted the comment.</div> He should be able to say whatever he wants. Fortson took out one of his most promising players. Zarko's early rookie season before the injury was amazing. I'd rank it up there with Bosh's. Fifteen thousand is a lot of money to have to pay for calling someone a name. Maybe if he called Fortson the N-word then he should pay, but "thug" is not a word worth 15 K, especially after he had good reason to use the word.
Could someone tell me the whole story, I never heard about this last season.. I figured out Danny Fortson hurt Zarko Cabarkapa some how but for what reason and when?
Fortson put a hard flagrant foul on Carbarkapa, which ended up breaking his arm. Colangelo then came out and publicly called Fortson a thug, and said he'd be acting like a thug his whole career. I can see it from both sides, but I do think Fortson has grounds for taking legal action, despite thinking the same thing as Colangelo when it happened. Voodoo, you could put a hard foul on one of my friends playing pick-up ball, and I could call you something offensive in return, but the minute I take that comment publicly into the media, you have every right to take legal action against me if you consider it to be an unfair and/or unnecessary slight on your character. Damn, where's Zhone when you need him?
I don't think that the term "thug" is a serious insult. Last I checked, it wasn't a swear word, and rather, some rappers even call themselves thugs. Although the incident at hand clearly wasn't a compliment to Fortson, I don't think it has defamed him anyhow. The term is a description of one's actions, and it's limited to personal opinion. Just because Colangelo made that statement doesn't mean everyone else in the world agreed with and followed him. I'm not American, but doesn't the US allow free speech too?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">He should be able to say whatever he wants. Fortson took out one of his most promising players. Zarko's early rookie season before the injury was amazing. I'd rank it up there with Bosh's. Fifteen thousand is a lot of money to have to pay for calling someone a name. Maybe if he called Fortson the N-word then he should pay, but "thug" is not a word worth 15 K, especially after he had good reason to use the word.</div> Why is it when the word "thug" comes up your replies come so quickly? This is an owner who made the statement. He should know more than anyone how someone such a statement can damage the reputation of a player. Danny Fortson has not gotten into any legal trouble since he got into the league. Is he the only person who has committed an malicious flagrant foul? No. He was fined and suspended and he apologized. I understand why Colangelo felt that way and even why he initially made the statement. What I don't understand is why he won't retract the statement. Many feelings can be expressed off of the record. There is no need to go to the papers to try to drag a player's character through the mud. I don't think that it would have been inappropriate at all for him to call Fortson a "thug" off of the record. Obviously many people in this forum agree that he is a thug partly b/c of the statements made by Colangelo. His opinion shouldn't influence the masses and that is what he tried to accomplish with his statements. I'm surprised that you felt that any comments that could damage a player or a group of players/reputation should result in a fine. Considering how often you hear such comments, I wouldn't expect you to endorse such a penalty.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post">Why is it when the word "thug" comes up your replies come so quickly?</div> Shiek, I have 4,700 posts. I'm going to post about thugs more than once, especially considering this is an NBA forum. BTW - I remember in the last discussion we had about the word I called Carmello a thug. While I had no reason to call him that then other than lack of commitment, my instincts were correct; he just got busted for drugs. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">This is an owner who made the statement. He should know more than anyone how someone such a statement can damage the reputation of a player. Danny Fortson has not gotten into any legal trouble since he got into the league. Is he the only person who has committed an malicious flagrant foul? No. He was fined and suspended and he apologized. I understand why Colangelo felt that way and even why he initially made the statement. What I don't understand is why he won't retract the statement. Many feelings can be expressed off of the record. There is no need to go to the papers to try to drag a player's character through the mud. I don't think that it would have been inappropriate at all for him to call Fortson a "thug" off of the record. Obviously many people in this forum agree that he is a thug partly b/c of the statements made by Colangelo. His opinion shouldn't influence the masses and that is what he tried to accomplish with his statements.</div> Yes, Colangelo's statements will be viewed by the NBA as innapropriate considering his ownership position, but is 15 K an accurate punishment? He didn't physically abuse the guy, and despite what you say it doesn't influence the masses. What masses listen to Colangelo? I don't even see anyone in this thread thinking that Fortson is a thug just because Colangelo said it. He's not forcing anyone to think that Fortson is a thug. It's up to us to decide that ourselves. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm surprised that you felt that any comments that could damage a player or a group of players/reputation should result in a fine. Considering how often you hear such comments, I wouldn't expect you to endorse such a penalty.</div> It really should depend on how severe the insult is. If the insult in question is something like "******", the n-word, or something of that nature then I think the person who uses the insult should be fined. There's a difference between using a word of anger and a word of hate. Also, it depends on how publicized the is. I never found out about this until I heard that Fortson was suing. Infact, he's just drawing more attention to the insult than there initially was with this stupid lawsuit.
The question is why won't he retract the statement? If he and the newspaper that printed the story retract the statement then the lawsuit goes away. I believe that if someone called you out of your name in your local newspaper you would want the person and the newspaper held accountable for what they said. That's all Fortson is doing and he shouldn't be criticized for it.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post">The question is why won't he retract the statement? If he and the newspaper that printed the story retract the statement then the lawsuit goes away. I believe that if someone called you out of your name in your local newspaper you would want the person and the newspaper held accountable for what they said. That's all Fortson is doing and he shouldn't be criticized for it.</div> I'm not criticizing Fortson for doing so. I'm mainly criticizing the amount of money that he's suing him for. What is this world we live in when saying "thug" or spitting at a player (ala Pierce) takes fifteen thousand dollars out of your pocket? I realize that Colangelo is a multi-millionaire, but that doesn't make the amount that he's suing for any more stomachable.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Supersonic:</div><div class="quote_post">$15K is peanuts to these guys. Anyway, he's not suing Colangelo for making the comments, he's suing him because he refuses to retract them. And, it's about how Fortson himself interprets the term 'thug', not you or I. Yes, rappers and the like call themselves thugs all the time, but it can be different if a white owner labels a black player a thug. I don't want to bring a side issue of racial implications into play, but at the same time you and I are both white Voodoo, and there's every chance an African American could define the term 'thug' differently to how we do.</div> I completely understand that. However, you can interpret many things many way. You can interpret that flagrant by Larry Hughes on Kirk Hinrich a racial thing (as many people I know did). However, that doesn't mean that it WAS a racial thing. Colangelo may be racist, but the odds are that he's just mad because Zarko was one of the 5 or 6 most promising rookies in the NBA and was sidelined for pretty much the entire season. I see it more as protecting Zarko than wanting to harm Fortson, but it's all up to the courts now. Besides, it shouldn't matter how rich you are. I'd expect to be able to collect the same amount of money that Fortson will get from this if my neighbor came out in the press and called me a thug.
There needs to be accountability for ownership as well as players. Owners have poor instances of judgment almost if not more often than players. They (outside of Mark Cuban) always seem to be protected b/c of their financial status. I'm glad that Fortson had the courage to stand up to Colangelo, even if it is only for 15 stacks. Maybe other owners will think twice about attacking the character of an employee/opponent through the media.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post">There needs to be accountability for ownership as well as players. Owners have poor instances of judgment almost if not more often than players. They (outside of Mark Cuban) always seem to be protected b/c of their financial status. I'm glad that Fortson had the courage to stand up to Colangelo, even if it is only for 15 stacks. Maybe other owners will think twice about attacking the character of an employee/opponent through the media.</div> I understand that point of view. It is courageous for him to be the bigger man in the situation. However, that doesn't make the fine just. What compensation would you want if I came out in the media and called you a thug? Surely you wouldn't want 15 thousand dollars.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">I understand that point of view. It is courageous for him to be the bigger man in the situation. However, that doesn't make the fine just. What compensation would you want if I came out in the media and called you a thug? Surely you wouldn't want 15 thousand dollars.</div> 15K is just enough money to get the attention of Colangelo and anyone else who would want to attack someone's character through the media. If he asked for $20 I don't think he would get his desired results. This isn't an issue of money. Fortson is scheduled to make almost 12 million dollars over the next two seasons. Do you think that 15K will make or break him? He is probably paying that much in lawyer fees. This about a stubborn owner who refuses to admit that he's wrong. The great thing about this country is that he doesn't have to admit he's wrong. But he and the paper that printed this story will have to pay 15K if they lose in court. The reality of this debate is that a paper wouldn't print someone attacking the character of another person unless the news was really relevant and would draw interest from the public. You most likely will only find that in sports, entertainment, and politics--making your concern about other people working the system to try to get extra compensation irrelevant.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post">15K is just enough money to get the attention of Colangelo and anyone else who would want to attack someone's character through the media. If he asked for $20 I don't think he would get his desired results. This isn't an issue of money. Fortson is scheduled to make almost 12 million dollars over the next two seasons. Do you think that 15K will make or break him? He is probably paying that much in lawyer fees. This about a stubborn owner who refuses to admit that he's wrong. The great thing about this country is that he doesn't have to admit he's wrong. But he and the paper that printed this story will have to pay 15K if they lose in court. The reality of this debate is that a paper wouldn't print someone attacking the character of another person unless the news was really relevant and would draw interest from the public. You most likely will only find that in sports, entertainment, and politics--making your concern about other people working the system to try to get extra compensation irrelevant.</div> I realize the issue is not about money. However, just because Colangelo is rich he should be fined more than the average person? What makes this case more important than the average case worth about $20?
Honestly, it may have been inappropriate... but we wouldn't even be thinking about Colangelo's comment if the lawsuit weren't put forward. Is that not what the doctrine of defamation of character is about? You could probably count the amount of people that were influenced by his comment on one hand. It didn't affect his career status, Seattle had no problem trading for him during the off-season, Dallas didn't have any problems keeping him on after the incident.
Well I hope you feel the same way when a player is fined 10K for criticizing the officials like Ray Allen and hundreds of others were in the past. Or the 25K that Shaq was fined when he cursed on live national television when asked about the referees. Or the fact that Quintel Woods has been suspended without pay without even being convicted of a crime. There are a lot more instances when the players get the short end of the stick. Owners, on the other hand, will still prosper without the support of their fan base.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting RiverspoonJones:</div><div class="quote_post">Honestly, it may have been inappropriate... but we wouldn't even be thinking about Colangelo's comment if the lawsuit weren't put forward. Is that not what the doctrine of defamation of character is about? You could probably count the amount of people that were influenced by his comment on one hand. It didn't affect his career status, Seattle had no problem trading for him during the off-season, Dallas didn't have any problems keeping him on after the incident.</div> That's exactly the point I made earlier. If anything, Fortson's comments are prolonging the incident; don't you think so? Had there not been a lawsuit filed by Fortson, I would not be wondering right now if he were thug or not. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Well I hope you feel the same way when a player is fined 10K for criticizing an official like Ray Allen and hundreds of others were in the past. Or 25K that Shaq was fined when he cursed on live national television when asked about the referees. Or the fact that Quintel Woods has been suspended without pay without even being convicted of a crime. There are a lot more instances when the players get the short end of the stick. Owners, on the other hand, will still prosper without the support of their fan base.</div> For the most part, Shiek, I do not agree with the NBA's suspension and fines for bogus little incidents. However, that Woods incident you mentioned (assuming you are talking about the dogfighting incident and not the drugs or team violence incident) is an actual incident that needed to be adressed. Everyone knows that he did it. He went to a High School right down the street from me and everyone I've asked about him have all said he ran with the wrong crowd. He's one player who I don't doubt commited a crime when it's reported.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post">Well I hope you feel the same way when a player is fined 10K for criticizing an official like Ray Allen and hundreds of others were in the past. Or 25K that Shaq was fined when he cursed on live national television when asked about the referees.</div> That is entirely public relations related. This is a whole other arena. In the courts there actually has to be some damage substantiated, you can't file a law suit because someone said a mean thing about him. If it has impacted his career as a NBA player (i.e. loss of income), or psychological damage to himself or family (which would be proven by previously consulting professionals), then he does indeed have a leg to stand on. But there is no comparison to NBA fines.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting RiverspoonJones:</div><div class="quote_post">Honestly, it may have been inappropriate... but we wouldn't even be thinking about Colangelo's comment if the lawsuit weren't put forward. Is that not what the doctrine of defamation of character is about? You could probably count the amount of people that were influenced by his comment on one hand. It didn't affect his career status, Seattle had no problem trading for him during the off-season, Dallas didn't have any problems keeping him on after the incident.</div> I definitely remember the comment when it was said. Even though I think that Fortson was totally in the wrong for the foul I felt uneasy that Colangelo was allowed to attack Fortson's character without any resistance. Fortson's minutes were reduced after this incident. I'm not saying that he didn't get the playing time b/c he was called a thug by Colangelo but I guarantee that owners take into consideration the perception of character when negotiating a players contract or attempting to trade for a player. Why do you think that Cleveland essentially gave Ricky Davis away? They tried to damage his character through the media as well when the only thing that he did on record was shoot at the wrong basket. Does anyone think that Davis will get a big time contract when his current one runs out?
