Why do you say I'm bad-mouthing Shaq? I'm giving him more credit than I EVER gave him, even when he was in an LA jersey. Dude...the man has flaws also. Come on, Shaq isn't Superman, no matter what he says. Defensive presence in the paint, free throws, and his health are usually his problems. Why is that so hard to admit? All I'm saying is that it's showing early...and the Heat don't have a spectacular bench either...so if an injury happens, the Heat are in trouble. The Lakers went through many games with Shaq injuries and still came out on top (i.e. in his first year, they managed to win 56 games and he was injured for 21 games. If the Heat lose Shaq for 21 games (actually have him not playing at all for 21), they could be in deep trouble...that's all I'm saying. That's the risk the Heat made when they traded off three starters for him (if Caron wasn't hurt, anyways)...and that's the main reason why I was so happy when it happened. If I'm not mistaken, Accord may agree with me. I believe I read something about him saying it was a huge mistake...the trade...and he's a huge Heat fan himself.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Why do you say I'm bad-mouthing Shaq? I'm giving him more credit than I EVER gave him, even when he was in an LA jersey. Dude...the man has flaws also. I admit that Kobe has them...but come on, Shaq isn't Superman, no matter what he says.</div> Come on. ''the Bucks scored 40+ points in the paint. If you're the MDE, you don't let that happen...but it did. You blamed just him. You didnt say the Heat allowed 40, or the frontcourt, you said because he's so dominate they shouldn't have scored that many points.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Bobcats:</div><div class="quote_post">Come on. ''the Bucks scored 40+ points in the paint. If you're the MDE, you don't let that happen...but it did. You blamed just him. You didnt say the Heat allowed 40, or the frontcourt, you said because he's so dominate they shouldn't have scored that many points.</div> That doesn't mean I'm bad-mouthing him. I'm saying that I've seen defensive guys like Mutombo swat shots from all directions...look at Kirilenko. No matter who it was...the center, PF or SF, or even Kobe driving the lane, AK was there to throw the shot. Okay...just look at this then. Shaq is averaging: under 19 PPG (career low) 4.4 fouls a game (career high) 0.14 steals a game (career low) 11 boards a game (career average of 12) 2.6 assists a game (lower than last year) shooting 53% from the field (career low) 3.43 turnovers a game (highest since rookie year) I thought he was in the best shape of his life (or since his rookie year)? I thought that Wade was a better teammate than anyone else he's teamed with in 8 years? I thought Shaq couldn't be Shaq and average 20 PPG? My main argument is that Shaq promised Miami that he'd have a championship for them. He's been talking all summer about how he's lost weight and in the best shape since his rookie season. The guy I'm watching is Dwyane Wade. I'll admit that I doubted him...but not to the extreme that I doubted (and still doubt) Shaq. Wade is playing amazing basketball...but I can't say the same for Shaq, and I don't see how anyone else can either. Maybe it'll change...maybe it won't...but I do know one thing: alot of Heat fans expected them to destroy everyone, and why not? But...it's not happening. Shaq isn't going to get MVP for playing like this, either...and that's my main point.
He was playing injured. You wanna know what he's done since he's been healthy? Against SA - 23 Points 21 Rebounds. 4 Assists, 2 Blocks. Against Milwaukee - 19 Points, 18 Rebounds, 4 Assists, 4 Blocks. Against Minnesota - 20 Points, 15 Rebounds, 1 Assists, 4 Blocks. Thats 20.6 PPG, 18 RPG, 3 APG, 3.3 BPG.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Bobcats:</div><div class="quote_post">He was playing injured. You wanna know what he's done since he's been healthy? Against SA - 23 Points 21 Rebounds. 4 Assists, 2 Blocks. Against Milwaukee - 19 Points, 18 Rebounds, 4 Assists, 4 Blocks. Against Minnesota - 20 Points, 15 Rebounds, 4 Blocks.</div> And only one of those was a win...in double overtime.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Bobcats:</div><div class="quote_post">And their would've been another win had a certain someone been playing against San Antonio...</div> Haha, you don't know that for sure though. That's what the Rocket fans were saying about the game before last (Laker game), when McGrady was out. Ming went nuts and they still lost...but if McGrady was playing, it may have hurt them more...just depends on how much he would've gotten the ball to Yao. If that played true, the Lakers should've won 82 games last year. Shaq, Kobe, Malone, Payton...it doesn't matter how many stars you have...it's how you use those players, and how well they play together against other teams. There are many IFs...remember? I was told this numerous times before the season started...so the same should apply to the Heat.
w/e, I'm too tired right now to continue on, I'm going to bed. Good debate though, hopefully we can have another one soon.
Man worry about ur lakers team first Kobe's shooting 61-157 .389 (career low) Now worry about that before you worry about us.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting WadeDynasty:</div><div class="quote_post">Man worry about ur lakers team first Kobe's shooting 61-157 .389 (career low) Now worry about that before you worry about us.</div> Good argument there. You seriously got me on that one. How about explaining to me why Shaq's stats are terrible? All I did was come in here to discuss another team, just like I do in other parts of this site (hey, even in the Bobcats forum). I don't need to worry about my Lakers first, because not a single Laker is bragging about a title, or promising one...saying they'll dominate, saying that they've got everything they've been wanting for 8 years, etc. If we make the playoffs, we silence the critics. If we go into the second round or farther, we've shocked the basketball world. If the Heat don't win a championship, they fail...because Shaq promised them one.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post">Good argument there. You seriously got me on that one. How about explaining to me why Shaq's stats are terrible? All I did was come in here to discuss another team, just like I do in other parts of this site (hey, even in the Bobcats forum). I don't need to worry about my Lakers first, because not a single Laker is bragging about a title, or promising one...saying they'll dominate, saying that they've got everything they've been wanting for 8 years, etc. If we make the playoffs, we silence the critics. If we go into the second round or farther, we've shocked the basketball world. If the Heat don't win a championship, they fail...because Shaq promised them one.</div> Yeah good point. But i'm not a Heat fan because I belive they will win a championship or they have Shaq now. I've been a fan of the Heat since the Franchise got started and if I'm only a fan because I think they will be a playoff team or even championship contender, I would have quit years ago when Zo went down and go to another team to cheer. And you said "because not a single Laker is bragging about a title, or promising one...saying they'll dominate, saying that they've got everything they've been wanting for 8 years, etc." but i've seen so many times when you brag about your "kobe" and how he will do without Shaq. I repect you for your opinions and seems like you have much knowledge about the game but it's really disturbing when everytime we talk about Shaq and of course "realdealbneal" comes in and start bashing. You say you are not bad mouthing but every posts look like you are. If you hate him man, dont care for him. I personally dont hate you realdealbneal, I wrote to hope you get well when u got that illness and I truly hope for you being healthy. I just wanna have another thread about Shaq where
Well, I don't think it's hard to see why I really do come into the Heat forum. If I didn't there'd be no reason to post, unless it's for games, because there wouldn't be anything to debate...or anyone else to debate against. I never questioned you about being a true Heat fan...I don't know if you are or not, but I can take your word for it. What I'm saying is actual facts... Shaq is doing great on the offensive boards. Wade is doing FANTASTIC offensively. The Heat have yet to beat a West team...or even a contender, East or West. Shaq has yet to have a HUGE game, injured or not...where he leads his team to a victory. However, Wade has. What I'm doing is what I said I would do when the season started: pointing out Shaq's faults that are STILL a part of him. He packed his bags, but he didn't leave behind his terrible free throw shooting (which is now down to 35% or so), his attitude (telling Stan Van Gundy that he didn't want to play that far from the basket on defense, for instance), and above all, promising a HUGE season for the Heat. I'm giving Shaq props for the good that he's doing...but there are alot more bad right now, especially with all of his fouls and poor shooting, even in limited minutes, it shouldn't matter. He's playing weak centers (well, weak compared to him, right?)...he has yet to go up against Yao or Big Ben...so what's his excuse? Shaq was predicted to win the MVP. He should be averaging 30 PPG, 14 RPG, and less fouls with about 4 assists (considering he's in amazing shape now). If he was really injured enough to affect his playing ability, he would've sat out, like he did nearly every year with the Lakers. Right now, the Heat are 5-3 I believe...five wins against the Wiz (2), Cavs, Nets and Bucks...3 losses against the Mavs, Spurs and Wolves. Honestly, there are alot of teams that could pull off the same record. Until I see the Heat beat guys like the Pacers, Pistons, Celtics, Mavs, Spurs, Wolves, Jazz (I could name a few more), and do it more than just once in the season...then I'll admit that Shaq was right. Otherwise, it's going to be a long season. I hope for the best, really...because I like Wade and Jones (although his shooting is poor)...but Wade's already hurting, and Shaq was hurting since Day 1...so what can I say?
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If the Heat don't win a championship, they fail...because Shaq promised them one.</div> Question, when did Shaq ever promise a Championship this year. He said he'll bring a championship to Miami but it does not necessarily mean this year (although we still have a good chance). When Shaq signed as a free agent by the Los Angeles Lakers on 7/18/96, they didn't win their FIRST championship until the 2000 Finals, not to mention Kobe didn't develop till that season as well. As a Miami Heat fan, In my opinion once we get the right pieces (which we will), we'll win a championship, its a matter of time...and the team bonding and playing as one. Its a great thing for Shaq to bring an atmosphere of wanting to win a championships he's got the right mindset and it will spread to the rest of the heat players. "As you think, you shall become"... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't need to worry about my Lakers first, because not a single Laker is bragging about a title, or promising one...saying they'll dominate, saying that they've got everything they've been wanting for 8 years, etc. If we make the playoffs, we silence the critics. If we go into the second round or farther, we've shocked the basketball world.</div> I doubt you''ll make it very far, especially in the western confernce, along with the fact that your teams gives up over 98 ppg (so far) and averages only 94 ppg. Rudy never really focused on defense, it was always offense, even with the backcourt in Houston, Mobley and Francis, Houston never went very far anyways. DEFENSE will get you a ring. BTW, Good luck with "Mr. I need to prove I don't need Shaq", he's a great player and I believe he's tryin to do what Jordan did, be the leader and carry his team.. but Michael Jordan, he'll never be.
Haha, now you're saying that defense wins championships, and Rudy T doesn't focus on defense? Well, Rudy T also has two rings (consecutive) in 1994 and 1995 with the Rockets. As far as Shaq's history goes...sure...he didn't win a ring for 4 years. It took that long to develop chemistry with Kobe and the other Lakers. Now...Shaq is actually past his prime (check stats, age, and everything else)...and may only have 3 or 4 years left in him. A championship? I really doubt it. And at last, we reach the Lakers again. You can doubt the Lakers all you want...I actually love it...but Kobe no longer has Shaq and has not even reached his prime yet, but the Lakers are 4-4. Almost everyone I've talked to predicted a 1-7 start, with the Lakers missing the playoffs. Even if I wasn't a Kobe fan, or a Laker fan, I wouldn't bet against Kobe Bryant...too many fans have already, and lost. By mid-season, Vlade will hopefully be 100%, we'll have Devean George and Rush traded for a better PG, and Malone should be back, which will bring the Lakers from being a .500 team (right now) to possibly a WCF team. And..."Mr. I need to prove I don't need Shaq" isn't as bad as "Mr. I need to prove I don't need Kobe or Penny." Shaq has had the chance, when Kobe was on the bench his first two years in the league. Kobe has yet to have the chance, yet you still bet against him. That's fine...we'll see. I'm out.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Man worry about ur lakers team first Kobe's shooting 61-157 .389 (career low) Now worry about that before you worry about us. </div> Jurrasic if you're in this thread notice that it was a Heat fan that brought up Kobe out of nowhere even though RealDeal was talking about Shaq's stats. Why is Kobe involved in this? Just because he disagrees with you on the fact that Shaq isn't doing as good as he was predicted to dosn't mean you should badmouth Kobe out of nowhere. As you guys like to say often "This is the Heat forum, don't talk about Kobe" <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> And their would've been another win had a certain someone been playing against San Antonio... </div> You can't base NBA games on woulda coulda shouldas. You can say that about anything. If Karl hadn't gotten hurt last year then the Lakers would have won the rest of their games in the seaosn. If Vince had hit that shot in the 2001 playoffs, the Raptors would have won the NBA title. Is it true? No. I am a big Dwyane fan and I do want Miami to suceed but as of now, they haven't really proved anything except that they can beat weaker teams. As someone on ESPN or Slam said, Miami can pick on teams weaker than them but everytime they face someone stronger, they lose. I agree that Miami will be a good team ocne both of them are healthy but they aren't really playing that well right now. I won't be considering this team championship material till they start beting the top teams, which they really haven't so far. Shaq is starting to gel in and produce now since he's been healthy so that's a could sign. I hope Dwyane can stay halthy, I really want to see him continue to takeover this team like he was doing the first week. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> And only one of those was a win...in double overtime. </div> Exactly. Once Miami starts winning consistently, I will consider them a title threat.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting spawn:</div><div class="quote_post"> Jurrasic if you're in this thread notice that it was a Heat fan that brought up Kobe out of nowhere even though RealDeal was talking about Shaq's stats. Why is Kobe involved in this? Just because he disagrees with you on the fact that Shaq isn't doing as good as he was predicted to dosn't mean you should badmouth Kobe out of nowhere. As you guys like to say often "This is the Heat forum, don't talk about Kobe"</div> I think I mentioned Kobe first, but the only thing I said about him was that he's doing poorly, shooting and turnovers...that's all. I didn't compare him to Shaq, Wade, Wesley Person, or anyone...and didn't speak "success" and Kobe in the same sentence. I just wanted everyone to realize that I do believe Kobe isn't playing his best basketball right now...and that he's not invincible and DOES have weaknesses...and maybe everyone else can accept the fact that Shaq is human, also.
