I was thinking about this after this conversation came up on another forum. This is a league of stars. But how many SUPER stars are there? By my definition, a superstar has to have such a presense on the team that his mere presense elevates the play of his teammates. A Super Star provides leadership on and off the court, and if his shots aren't falling, will find other ways to will the team to victory. Vince Carter is often referred to as a super star. BS. I don't even think TMac is a super star. I think TMac is a top 7 talent in the league, but I see that as something that is different from a super star. He can lead the league in scoring, but he hasn't led his team anywhere in the playoffs. Even the Rockets aren't looking so hot. Kobe? Nope. His team is a half game behind the CLIPPERS. He does not have the same presense on the court that MJ had, I still don't think the other Lakers (or their fans) are fully behind this guy. Carmelo? He is an offensive force, but nothing more, yet. So, I pose this question to you. Who are the true Super Stars of this league? What does it take, in your view, to become a legit super star? Here's my list of legit super stars. Shaq. TD. KG. Kidd. Lebron. Period. End of list. I think that Dwayne Wade is on his way (2 superstars on the same team? Nasty). Grant Hill was one back in his day, and he looks great so far this season (by the way, is this not the happiest story of this young NBA season? I wish him all the best). Others?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting celtfan:</div><div class="quote_post">I was thinking about this after this conversation came up on another forum. This is a league of stars. But how many SUPER stars are there? By my definition, a superstar has to have such a presense on the team that his mere presense elevates the play of his teammates. A Super Star provides leadership on and off the court, and if his shots aren't falling, will find other ways to will the team to victory. Vince Carter is often referred to as a super star. BS. I don't even think TMac is a super star. I think TMac is a top 7 talent in the league, but I see that as something that is different from a super star. He can lead the league in scoring, but he hasn't led his team anywhere in the playoffs. Even the Rockets aren't looking so hot. Kobe? Nope. His team is a half game behind the CLIPPERS. He does not have the same presense on the court that MJ had, I still don't think the other Lakers (or their fans) are fully behind this guy. Carmelo? He is an offensive force, but nothing more, yet. So, I pose this question to you. Who are the true Super Stars of this league? What does it take, in your view, to become a legit super star? Here's my list of legit super stars. Shaq. TD. KG. Kidd. Lebron. Period. End of list. I think that Dwayne Wade is on his way (2 superstars on the same team? Nasty). Grant Hill was one back in his day, and he looks great so far this season (by the way, is this not the happiest story of this young NBA season? I wish him all the best). Others?</div> I disagree with your definition of a superstar. A superstar in my oppinion is someone who puts up great numbers, a leader, and who's hard work has been recognized and noticed with some kind of awards like all star selection. Wheather the team does good or bad is essential in determining a superstar is important however, lack of a supporting cast should also be taken into consideration. Let's suppose Garnett did not have Casssel and Sprewell in that offseason. If Garnett's T'Wolves still managed to suffer another first round playoff loss would that make him less of a superstar? I don't remember what LeBron has really accomplished in his career (other than that unjust roy selection imo). What about Kobe, Nowitzki, Marbury, Iverson and the tons of other players I'm leaving out?
There are 3 class in my opinion.. There are stars, superstars, then there are "untouchables." Untouchables are beyond superstars. They can literally carry thier teams to victory and make a difference in every game they are involved in. You put them on a lottery team and even then they will make thier teams better. These players don't come very often. Stars (In no order, just a few examples) Vince Carter Michael Redd Yao Ming Carmelo Anthony Superstars Kobe Bryant (he's almost at the level of "untouchable", and this season's outcome will determine his ranking in my eyes) Tracy Mcgrady Paul Pierce Jermaine O'Neal Allen Iverson Lebron James (as of now) Untouchables Kevin Garnett Tim Duncan Shaquille O'Neal Jason Kidd There are also "rising stars" and "potential superstars" but I'll get into that another time. There are only 4 untouchables in this league as of now (IMO) but I believe that Kobe, Lebron and possibly Yao will reach to that status in the years to come or even as soon as after this year.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting spawn:</div><div class="quote_post">There are 3 class in my opinion.. There are stars, superstars, then there are "untouchables." Untouchables are beyond superstars. They can literally carry thier teams to victory and make a difference in every game they are involved in. You put them on a lottery team and even then they will make thier teams better. These players don't come very often. Stars (In no order, just a few examples) Vince Carter Michael Redd Yao Ming Carmelo Anthony Superstars Kobe Bryant (he's almost at the level of "untouchable", and this season's outcome will determine his ranking in my eyes) Tracy Mcgrady Paul Pierce Jermaine O'Neal Allen Iverson Lebron James (as of now) Untouchables Kevin Garnett Tim Duncan Shaquille O'Neal Jason Kidd There are also "rising stars" and "potential superstars" but I'll get into that another time. There are only 4 untouchables in this league as of now (IMO) but I believe that Kobe, Lebron and possibly Yao will reach to that status in the years to come or even as soon as after this year.</div> LeBron James should be on your "rising stars" lists instead of putting him on the superstar llist.
The Best of the Best: KG Duncan Kobe Shaq These are the Best of the Best in the NBA, you can't get any higher than them. The lists below only have a few players for each category Superstars: T-Mac Dirk Pierce Jason Kidd LeBron James* VC(Falling Off) Stars: Michael Redd* Peja Stojackovic Shawn Marion Yao Ming* Carmelo Anthony* - Asterisk Indicates that the player is a Rising Star
PLEAAAAASE how can you not include Iverson in the untouchables, he is the smallest guy on the court most of the times, he CARRIES his team to the finals and he gets no recognition. How about you give him some props? KG TD SHAQ ... they all are 6'10+... how about you guys give the little man some recognition? How can you put KG up there when he hasn't had any sucess PAST the playoffs.... The timberwolves haven't even gotten to the CONFRENCE FINALS! The wolves even have other STAR players... Sam CASSELL.. SPREWELL... Who did Iverson have when he took them to the finals? Mutombo? Kidd is a untouchable just because of what he does.. he's been to the finals and he's won it all. Also don't overrate Kobe, we haven't seen what he can do as the only superstar or star on the team.
Iverson's ability is deterreorating, and I wouldn't have him as an untouchable. Yes he is still capable of putting up 30-8, but does he? No. He definitely is still a super star but he hasn't been an untouchable in two years. I think his stats might go down a little bit in the following games because down the road he will have to do too much, and that may effect his level of play. I don't think J-Kidd is untouchable. He is a super star but not an untouchable. He is hurt so he can't be considered untouchable. And what about no one having even AK 47 on any list untouchable, super star or star. I would have him as a star. He averages 16-6 and frickin 5 blocks.
there arent many Superstars in the leauge. In my opinion a superstar is a player who no matter what the score is believes he can get his team a win and also has the skills to achieve that. in a streched out leuge of 30 teams. alot of players who are known as stars are really great role players. since all the talent is spead out players dont face competitoin and good Teams as often as in the past. but in my opinion : KG Kobe duncan Shaq these are the only 4 players that i can think of who can step up their offence and defence up to a level that no one can stop. there are other star players that are good like tmac ,artest , carter ,and the like and I think artest is the closes of these players to becomeing a superstar. I know your probably sayin what? But kobe and Artest are the same type of players accept kobe is more fierce offensivley and Artest is more fierce defensivley. artests defence plus kobes offence equals Micheal Jordan.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting S.Livingston14:</div><div class="quote_post">Iverson's ability is deterreorating, and I wouldn't have him as an untouchable. Yes he is still capable of putting up 30-8, but does he? No. He definitely is still a super star but he hasn't been an untouchable in two years. I think his stats might go down a little bit in the following games because down the road he will have to do too much, and that may effect his level of play. I don't think J-Kidd is untouchable. He is a super star but not an untouchable. He is hurt so he can't be considered untouchable. And what about no one having even AK 47 on any list untouchable, super star or star. I would have him as a star. He averages 16-6 and frickin 5 blocks.</div> Are you kidding me? lol....iverson aveage 27 and 8, shooting good, but i still agree with u i wudnt consider him a untouchable, i guess i wud consider him a either super star or a tad bit above super star depend on how you rate him. if you rate his whole career , i wud rate him a tad bit above super star, rite now hes only a super star.
Before someone comes in and whines about Kobe not being on the untouchable list, he hasn't proven yet that he can carry a team. This is his first year.
So you guys base SUPERSTARS on stats? or do you base them on how much they win? KG = CRAZY stats but doesn't get it done in the playoffs Shaq = Normal Stats .. nothing crazy but his team has gotten it done TD = GOOD stats and has won a championship So basically you guys dont want to count IVERSON because he hasn't WON a title or because of whoever has good stats? Either way your judging superstars and untouchables wrong. If you were to say stat wise untouchables then it would have to be Iverson TD KG Kobe Kidd. Success wise Shaq TD Kidd Kobe... enough said.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Before someone comes in and whines about Kobe not being on the untouchable list, he hasn't proven yet that he can carry a team. This is his first year. </div> That's one of the reasons I put him as a superstar. I, being a huge Kobe fan, really believe he will be able to carry this team to the playoffs and beyond in the years to come but until he leads his team anywhere as himself as the sole focus and carries them through the playoffs, he isn't really an untouchable as of yet. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> LeBron James should be on your "rising stars" lists instead of putting him on the superstar llist. </div> Lebron has been more pressure then any other NBA star in the last year and a half. Not only that, he has been extremely hyped. Not only that, he's come to make all of the hype true and at the rate he is playing right now, he is a superstar in his own rights. Averaging 20-5-5 as a 19 year old rookie is something that's unheard of. True, he hasn't really led the Cavaliers anywhere but he is the leader of that team and is emerging into an even greater superstar. I would have placed him as a *rising star last year. This year he is starting to prove why he is a superstar. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Jason Kidd is an untouchable? I think he's more of a...superstar. </div> Jason Kidd is also a rare player in my eyes. Sure, his shot is suspect but it's his overall game and unselfishness that drives me to believe he is an untouchable player. Granted, he is injured right now so maybe I should have put an asterisk besides his name but when he was not injured, he proved why he was an untouchable. He played beyond the level of superstar. He made everyone around his better and he was the main reason his team made it as far as they did in 2002 and 2003. Actually, my mistake on Jason Kidd, I should really put an asterisk besides his name for now. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> how can you not include Iverson in the untouchables, he is the smallest guy on the court most of the times, he CARRIES his team to the finals and he gets no recognition </div> Three years ago, I would have put Iverson as an untouchable player, even though shooting guards like him come and go. Essentially, the only thing he posesses superior almost everybody else in the league is his heart and determination. There are plenty of shooting guards who can shoot and drive as well. Iverson is an exceptional shooter but that is pretty much all he does, shoot. He doesn't necessairly make his teammates better because he pretty much demands the ball every posession and almost shoots it every posession. What qualities does he posess that would make him an 'untouchable' player? I'm not hating on Iverson, he is one of my favourite players in this league but I don't really consider him an untouchable player. A superstar, no doubt but is he untouchable? No. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> The timberwolves haven't even gotten to the CONFRENCE FINALS! The wolves even have other STAR players... Sam CASSELL.. SPREWELL... Who did Iverson have when he took them to the finals? Mutombo? </div> The Timberwolves made it to the Conference Finals last year and made it till game 6. It was the first year that K.G had a supporting cast around him that had solid superstars and exceptional players aside from him. He did not dissappoint did he? He helped take them to game 6 of the WCF when he couldn't make it past the first round before. Iverson had....the coach of the year in Larry Brown, the Defensive player of the year in Dikembe Mutumbo, The sixth man of the year in Aaron Mckie, the veteran LEADERSHIP of Eric Snow, the solid play of Tyronne Hill, a defesnive stopper in George Lynch. The rest of the team wasn't as loaded but he had the right tools essential to have playoff sucess that year. It was just his year. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> He is hurt so he can't be considered untouchable. And what about no one having even AK 47 on any list untouchable, super star or star. I would have him as a star. He averages 16-6 and frickin 5 blocks </div> I wasn't naming ALL of the players. I just gave a few examples.
I believe a superstar is someoen who gives his all for his team. They can lead their team and drive their team to victories. They usually put up good numbers but the numbers arent everything. They also make everyone around them better. I believe these players are superstars or "untouchables" Shaq - Can lead his team to playoffs and championships, makes everyone around him better. Tim Duncan - Unselfish, Nice shot for a big man, can create oppurtunities for his team KG - Enough said in your theory of untouchables and superstars i dont think Tmac deserves to be a super star. He is a great player no doubt. But he doesnt want to lead a team he just wants to be the main scorer on the team. That is the main difference between Kobe and T-mac. Tmac didnt want to lead the Magic when he played for them. Kobe is driven, determined and ready to become leader of the Lakers.
Wow, there's levels beyond superstar called "the untouchables" and "best of the best?" The official current cemented superstars: Garnett Duncan Shaq Kobe Ray Jermaine Kidd Dirk Iverson (He still is a superstar) Notice how I didn't mention Tracy. He's a franchise player that has talent and skills but he's not a superstar.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Banks:</div><div class="quote_post">The Best of the Best: KG Duncan Kobe Shaq These are the Best of the Best in the NBA, you can't get any higher than them. The lists below only have a few players for each category Superstars: T-Mac Dirk Pierce Jason Kidd LeBron James* VC(Falling Off) Stars: Michael Redd* Peja Stojackovic Shawn Marion Yao Ming* Carmelo Anthony* - Asterisk Indicates that the player is a Rising Star</div> Agree, excpet AI is a superstar
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Banks:</div><div class="quote_post">The Best of the Best: KG Duncan Kobe Shaq These are the Best of the Best in the NBA, you can't get any higher than them. The lists below only have a few players for each category Superstars: T-Mac Dirk Pierce Jason Kidd LeBron James* VC(Falling Off) Stars: Michael Redd* Peja Stojackovic Shawn Marion Yao Ming* Carmelo Anthony* - Asterisk Indicates that the player is a Rising Star</div> cmon now, you got carmelo, michael redd, stojakovic and shawn marion as stars and you don't have Ray Allen anywhere in your post? When was the last time any of these 4 cats carried their team on their back? well, carmelo did a couple of nights ago, but he's inconsistent...to everybody - give Ray Allen some love, give Baron Davis some love, give Steve Francis some love too...
Body_count, dude, we were giving example, there are like tons of stars in the league and really giving all the names at once is pointless
My bad on the western confrence thing on the timberwolves, I didn't watch the playoffs last year. Iverson is beginning to not only shoot but pass as well. He IS making his teammates play better then he has before.
