<div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post">Nobody thought the Pistons would beat the Lakers, either.</div> I did. Billups is a better pg that Parker, and look at how much trouble TP gave GP. There was no way they were going to beat the Pistons unless Fisher got lucky 999,999 times, or the ressurected Horry. I can list more reasons why the I knew the Pistons would win.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jurassic:</div><div class="quote_post">I did. Billups is a better pg that Parker, and look at how much trouble TP gave GP. There was no way they were going to beat the Pistons unless Fisher got lucky 999,999 times, or the ressurected Horry. I can list more reasons why the I knew the Pistons would win.</div> Haha, okay...let's pretend like it's April again, and let's take a survey on this site. 90% of the members would've picked the Lakers over the Pistons in 4 or 5 games...but it was the other way around.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You can't be so sure that his game was boosted. He arrived in Orlando, meaning he wasn't with anyone else. Plus, in Penny's first season without Shaq in Orlando, he still had consistent numbers, but he suffered an injury that kept him out for 22 games. He continued to miss games until eventually, he couldn't even start...therefore, ruining his career...not the departure of Shaq.</div> Penny's career has gone wrong due to injury but without Shaq, life became alot tougher. He had far more double teams than he did with Shaq, his shot selection was questionable and quite frankly wasn't as great as he was with the big man. Teams knew they couldn't double Penny as much due to the fact Shaq would have a field day inside. Same can be said when Shaq and Kobe came togeather. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Nobody thought the Pistons would beat the Lakers, either. Five guys that were all considered mediocre in their careers...and they all get together and do what was the "impossible" last year. </div> Hardly, Pistons great defense always gave the team a chance to win games. As soon as Sheed arrived I knew this team was a title contender, they just needed to click and thats exactly what happened. Everyone in Detroit believed they would win the championship, was the best defense I've seen since MJ's Bulls. It may even of been better. Was certainly one of the best defensive championship teams in NBA history. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And I wouldn't want Yao Ming. Look at the McGrady-Yao "connection" in Houston right now. We are better than the Rockets. </div> Thats highly debatable, the Mcgrady/Yao will need time to work. Yao is still only 23 and has a long way to go to be effective. As for Lakers being better than the Rockets? I'm not sure about that, both are struggling for different reasons. Neither team has a good point guard. Houston at least has a very good center.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AllNet:</div><div class="quote_post">Of course he is still young but to win a title you need the right guys around you and It's been proven shooting guards don't win titles without a big man in this era. Kobe can be as clutch as he wants but unless you have talented guys who can help you win games you aren't going to go all the way. You need the right balence of attack but most importantly you need a defensive presents inside. I'm not saying Kobe will fail as It's impossible to predict the future but there are alot of question marks about him and how far he can take a team as the go to guy.</div> I completely agree. I dont forsee them winning a title anytime soon, but my point was that so many ppl (not directed at you) are discounting Kobe as a failure 9 games into his post-Shaq/Phil career. So what if his team is 5-4? So what if they don't win a title this year? Careers and Franchises aren't (re)built over 9 games or one season. I think the point that Realdealbneal was trying to push home was that while Kobe did need Shaq to win those first 3 titles, it doesn't neccassirly mean he will need him to win the next few titles. Kobe needs help, no question about it, but i think most of us can agree the help doesn't neccessarily have to come from Shaq. Where it will come from and how much help is needed, that's for Kobe, Mitch, and Dr. Buss to come up with...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jurassic:</div><div class="quote_post">Last time I checked, the east has caught up to the west. Who are the champs again? The west just lost Shaq, so that argument isn't as valid anymore. </div> The point I was trying to make is the East has more sub par teams than the west meaning easier games for the Heat. I think the argument is valid. The 2 best players in the league are out west. (Duncan and Garnett) <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Well Shaq did get it done without Phil though. So I guess Kobe's success will be tied to Shaq and Phil, while Shaq's will only be tied to Kobe. </div> Shaq never won a championship without Phil. So you could say Shaq was tied to Phil also. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Not unless Kobe also makes it to the finals with Divac, lol. Even though Shaq had Penny he still got to the finals with a different guard. Now it's up to Kobe to get to the finals with another big man (Vlade/Grant, lol). That might seem unfair, but you can thank Mitch for that.</div> I don't think Divac or Grant are a big part of the Laker's future, or at least I hope not.
Is anyone forgetting how successful the Lakers were a year or two before Shaq? Del Harris and the Lakers won 48 games in 1994-1995 (lost in second round)...and then 53 games in 1995-1996 (lost to the defending champs in the 1st round). With Shaq's arrival, in 1996-1997, the Lakers only won 3 more games total (56) than they did the previous year (no surprise, lost in the second round again). So, then the question arises...why wasn't Shaq such a huge impact when he first arrived in Los Angeles? Kobe played 15 minutes a game, started only 6 games that season...and there was no Phil. If he was successful by himself, he should've at LEAST gotten to the WCF's that year.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post">Is anyone forgetting how successful the Lakers were a year or two before Shaq? Del Harris and the Lakers won 48 games in 1994-1995 (lost in second round)...and then 53 games in 1995-1996 (lost to the defending champs in the 1st round). With Shaq's arrival, in 1996-1997, the Lakers only won 3 more games total (56) than they did the previous year (no surprise, lost in the second round again). So, then the question arises...why wasn't Shaq such a huge impact when he first arrived in Los Angeles? Kobe played 15 minutes a game, started only 6 games that season...and there was no Phil. If he was successful by himself, he should've at LEAST gotten to the WCF's that year.</div> The Lakers lost to the Utah Jazz, who won 64 games during the regular season. So because Shaq couldn't beat a great team like the Jazz, he was unsuccessful? Let me ask you this: If you put Shaq on the current Lakers squad and remove Kobe, would they have a better or worse season? I think they'd likely have a much better year and, again, be contenders. Shaq can make an average team into a championship contender by himself. I don't think you can say that about Kobe (or virtually anyone else in the league, for that matter, outside of Duncan and maybe Garnett).
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post">The point is this: Shaq has never had success without Kobe. He had Penny, who was shooting over 50% in a few seasons with Shaq and had nearly 7 assists a game in those seasons...so Shaq didn't do it by himself then. Kobe has yet to have the chance to win without Shaq. Nine games, and everyone is still saying he's doing nothing, he's garbage, he's not a leader, his stats are down, blah blah blah. Everyone gave Allen Iverson 5 or 6 years by himself before the Sixers got into the Finals and Iverson had an MVP. How many years did McGrady have? He has yet to do anything, but for some reason, guys say he's better than Kobe and better than Pierce and Iverson. Everyone is quick to jump onto the bandwagon flying through Los Angeles, with people throwing eggs at an "unsuccessful" Kobe Bryant...when actually, his solo career hasn't even kicked off yet, and he has yet to even reach his prime. Those are the facts. Nothing I said above was opinion...so maybe in 6 years, in Kobe's best years, whenever...someone can come back here and talk trash on Kobe...and if Kobe hasn't done anything (MVP's, scoring titles, Western Conf. championship, NBA title, etc), then I'll sit back and listen.</div> I gotta agree with parts of what you say here. yeah, people are being quick to say he is unsuccessful, and you cant really have a productive conversation untill a few years down the road. I cant really put much faith in talking about Bryant much past the current year. Who knows who he will wind up playing with in the future? the only thing that I have said to this point is that this season, the Lakers are not going to do that well because Bryant isnt ready to be the main guy on his own. but its how he adjusts to being the main guy that is going to set the stage for successive years to come. A good example is KG. no one doubts his ability, but it wasnt untill he got some solid players around him that they made it deep into the playoffs. There is not a single player in the league these days that can go all the way to the conference finals on his own... its a team game and it takes a team effort. I think Bryant has a good chance of working out as the main guy on the Lakers in the future, but its going to take a season of getting used to it before it happens.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">The Lakers lost to the Utah Jazz, who won 64 games during the regular season. So because Shaq couldn't beat a great team like the Jazz, he was unsuccessful? Let me ask you this: If you put Shaq on the current Lakers squad and remove Kobe, would they have a better or worse season? I think they'd likely have a much better year and, again, be contenders. Shaq can make an average team into a championship contender by himself. I don't think you can say that about Kobe (or virtually anyone else in the league, for that matter, outside of Duncan and maybe Garnett).</div> Worse season. Who's gonna be your SG? You would have Kareem Rush starting, and he's terrible...then, no backup for him. Hack-a-Shaq would be in full swing, and he'd be injured by December. Plus, if he was in LA, he'd still weigh 355 lbs.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Let me ask you this: If you put Shaq on the current Lakers squad and remove Kobe, would they have a better or worse season? I think they'd likely have a much better year and, again, be contenders. Shaq can make an average team into a championship contender by himself. I don't think you can say that about Kobe (or virtually anyone else in the league, for that matter, outside of Duncan and maybe Garnett). </div> That is an excellent point and it is true. If Shaq was surrounded by L.A's players minus Kobe right now, I believe they would have had a slightly better record. This is assuming Shaq is playing hurt like he is in Miami. Now, back to the original title of this thread. Why are there so many Kobe haters? Simple. Some of the fans just make TOO much of him. So the people that already dislike Kobe getting "overhyped" get even more irrated. And I agree completely agree with All-Net's list. I'm a huge Kobe fan but I'm not oblivious to the fact that Shaq was the main reason for the 3 championships. But, you have to agree that by the 3rd one, Kobe was definetly coming into his own and starting to take over the reigns a little bit. Shaq WAS sucessful without Kobe, in Orlando. Leading his team to the Finals is a great achievement and it's just fate that he happened to be facing the best center in the game at that particular playoff series. Kobe, meanwhile, has not gotten the chance to prove himself. You guys can't be throwing labels aronud on him when he has yet to play a full season without Shaq. People are jumping to conclusions after 9 games.
i hate kobe nad always hated kobe and the lakers i never liked him cause he acts like hes the greatest abd <font color="Red">edit </font> he thinks he jordan. u will never even b as good as pippen u rapist
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting thedude9990:</div><div class="quote_post">i hate kobe nad always hated kobe and the lakers i never liked him cause he acts like hes the greatest abd <font color="Red">edit </font> he thinks he jordan. u will never even b as good as pippen u rapist</div> Cool.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> i hate kobe nad always hated kobe and the lakers i never liked him cause he acts like hes the greatest abd <font color="Red">edit </font> he thinks he jordan. u will never even b as good as pippen u rapist </div> #1-> Calm down. #2-> He was accquited of the charges. This is why most of the "casual" or general NBA fans usually hate Kobe (I'm not saying thedude9990 is one). They think he "acts like the greatest and thinks he's betetr then Jordan". Right there is the solution to many of the reasons why casual fans hate him. I know because I know at least 10 or 15 people that hate him just based on that one opinion.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting spawn:</div><div class="quote_post">#1-> Calm down. #2-> He was accquited of the charges. This is why most of the "casual" or general NBA fans usually hate Kobe (I'm not saying thedude9990 is one). They think he "acts like the greatest and thinks he's betetr then Jordan". Right there is the solution to many of the reasons why casual fans hate him. I know because I know at least 10 or 15 people that hate him just based on that one opinion.</div> And you forgot... #3 - Kobe publicly stated that he didn't want to be the next Jordan...that he wanted to be the first Kobe Bryant.
Kobe haters are unbelievable you guys are so willing to put him down that you're gonna say the worst things imaginable. Why do some of you (if not all of you ) think that he's acting like he's better than MJ? The guy has a lot of respect for his Airness. Whenever Kobe played against him, he always tried to find some time to talk with him. Remember when Kobe dropped 55 pts on the visiting Wizards, I think I still remember that MJ fell to the floor and Kobe helped him get up and of course with that smug smile. But Kobe's message was simple to his fans and his haters that are willing to put their dislike bias aside and really look at that scene. It's a sign of respect and love to the player he idolized as a kid growing up and as an NBA player. Although it is true that during his early years he promoted "you have to believe in yourself or nobody else will" in his Adidas ad, it didn't mean that he believes in himself so much he thinks he's better than everyone he doesn't need to look to anyone. Well, if Kobe thinks he's better than LaRon Profit, he has to in order to beat him... if he thinks he's better than Tracy McGrady, so be it, because I do think that T-Mac himself thinks he's better than Kobe whenever the two meet in order to put some killer instinct mentality in himself to beat Kobe. Like I think AI once said, "I can't respect you on the court because that's how I beat you.." But when it comes to MJ, his Airness, God of basketball, everybody knows that MJ is the greatest and it is the wisest not to step on his toes... and Kobe is too smart to disrespect MJ by thinking that he's better than MJ? Or that he's too smart to disrespect himself by wanting to be MJ? He's always wanted to be himself. After all, like Shaq said in his book "Shaq Talks Back" (p. 93 ) that Kobe is "intelligent, the only brother I know who made a 1420 on the SAT." Now, I wonder where has that perception of Kobe thinking he's better than MJ come from? I suppose it's all the thinking that you all Kobe haters form from the negative thoughts that develop over time. The degree of hate you possess toward Kobe as not only a ball player but also as a person freaks the hell out of me.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting PupMelo:</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe haters are unbelievable you guys are so willing to put him down that you're gonna say the worst things imaginable. Why do some of you (if not all of you ) think that he's acting like he's better than MJ? The guy has a lot of respect for his Airness. Whenever Kobe played against him, he always tried to find some time to talk with him. Remember when Kobe dropped 55 pts on the visiting Wizards, I think I still remember that MJ fell to the floor and Kobe helped him get up and of course with that smug smile. But Kobe's message was simple to his fans and his haters that are willing to put their dislike bias aside and really look at that scene. It's a sign of respect and love to the player he idolized as a kid growing up and as an NBA player. Although it is true that during his early years he promoted "you have to believe in yourself or nobody else will" in his Adidas ad, it didn't mean that he believes in himself so much he thinks he's better than everyone he doesn't need to look to anyone. Well, if Kobe thinks he's better than LaRon Profit, he has to in order to beat him... if he thinks he's better than Tracy McGrady, so be it, because I do think that T-Mac himself thinks he's better than Kobe whenever the two meet in order to put some killer instinct mentality in himself to beat Kobe. Like I think AI once said, "I can't respect you on the court because that's how I beat you.." But when it comes to MJ, his Airness, God of basketball, everybody knows that MJ is the greatest and it is the wisest not to step on his toes... and Kobe is too smart to disrespect MJ by thinking that he's better than MJ? Or that he's too smart to disrespect himself by wanting to be MJ? He's always wanted to be himself. After all, like Shaq said in his book "Shaq Talks Back" (p. 93 ) that Kobe is "intelligent, the only brother I know who made a 1420 on the SAT." Now, I wonder where has that perception of Kobe thinking he's better than MJ come from? I suppose it's all the thinking that you all Kobe haters form from the negative thoughts that develop over time. The degree of hate you possess toward Kobe as not only a ball player but also as a person freaks the hell out of me.</div> Excellent point...you couldnt of said it any better
and i believe the reason why kobe is getting all the hate is because of his "likeness" to MJ. there are still a lot of MJ fans out there and they still continue to praise MJ because he was the best. and thats why i think those MJ fans are hating on kobe, its because they feel threatened that Kobe might some day replace MJ. and them being MJ fans dont ever want that to happen so thats why they hate kobe so much.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AllNet:</div><div class="quote_post">Thats the thing Jurassic, the real difference between Kobe and Mcgrady is the fact Kobe has had Shaq by his side for 8 seasons. The 45% shooting was high as because of the attention Shaq created, Kobe was given more chances to get better looks. Now he is seeing double and triple teams every single offense, his FG% is really bad, As I mentioned in the off-season Kobe is finally entering the real world of the NBA. The world of superstars having to actual carry their teams to victory instead of turning to the big fella inside. People still don't realise how easy Shaq makes certain players life easier, first It was Penny, then Eddie Jones (just look at his % in L.A) and now Kobe. If Kobe just takes his team to the playoffs and they are just an average team, how does that make him any different to T-mac,AI or the Paul Pierce's of the world?</div> Look, the big man took the pressure off other players, but there are 4 other players on the court, and if your going to double the big man, your not going to do it with someone have his size that would guard but a foward. So really the pressure would be taken off the other guard and than you would have people like Malone, Horry, and such in the past open, not Kobe.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Billa_Bong:</div><div class="quote_post">Look, the big man took the pressure off other players, but there are 4 other players on the court, and if your going to double the big man, your not going to do it with someone have his size that would guard but a foward. So really the pressure would be taken off the other guard and than you would have people like Malone, Horry, and such in the past open, not Kobe.</div> Hey, don't worry about it Billa. Without Shaq, the Lakers are nothing. The NBA Championship was an individual award in 2000, 2001, and 2002. You didn't know that?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Showtyme2642:</div><div class="quote_post">kobe hater? no. kobe is a selfish player who drove one of the most dominating centers out of la look at the heat then look at the lakers shaq has helped wade flourish.... imagine if kobe woulda just let the big guy run the show... then kobe would be hands down one of the greatest players around... now his team is struggling and being compared to the clippers.... enough said</div> Nice Comment :thumbsup:
