i dont mind this trade. its cap room...and so what if we dont get a star....we could at least up grade our bench. sure it's been doing well, but you never know. personally i like simmons, swift and joe johnson. Besides, people keep mentioning how we've never been able to sign big free agents.....WHEN HAVE WE TRIED? when have we had the cash? Toronto stands about as good a chance as getting players as alot of teams in the league. sure maybe they're not New York, LA or SA...but its better than NO and Atlanta. bosh wouldnt be bad at 3, reef can handle 3 sometimes too. and against small front courts we could do both. bosh at 5 like last year and reef at 4 with mo pete, DA/NVA/l. murray at SG and skip at PG. Not bad at all. AND even though we might not have a chance/need for the big name guys...ALOT of teams are gunna be interested in the cap space we can offer them. Think about it, we could probably get a half decent center...maybe even magloire in exchange for the ability for another team to go after redd or ray allen. Do it yesterday. But definately try to get NVA not DA. Quintel woods would be gravy...pass on Stepania rose, carter for sheed, NVA, Woods
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">It's just the redundancy in positions, and the uncertainty of whether their's someone there we'll actually get with out cap space. NVE is fine in crunch, but even look at when we were playing Portland, it's a defensive disadvantage, and what if we had NVE at 2 and Reef at the 3, we have a lot of defensive holes especially considering Bosh still can't guard the stronger PF's. Rashard Lewis got an extension, he's not an FA next season. The good free agents available are: Ray Allen, Michael Redd, Zydrunas Ilguaskas, and Theo Ratliff. Redd's options are going to be stay in Milwaukee, or Cleveland since he's an Ohio guy, I don't see how the Raptors would be an option to him over those 2 places, doesn't make sense. Already said about Allen and Z. Their's also Ronald Murray, Joe Johnson [restricted], Antoine Walker [ ], Marko Jaric, Kerry Kittles, Bobby Simmons, Stromile Swift, Damon Stoudamire, and Larry Hughes.</div> i didn't know about lewis' status, although i think redd would be a good signing especially since he's networked with coach mitchell. swift might be an intriguing signing if marshall wants to leave as well. anyways, read my post about how i would use reef and chris which might clarify my position from a techinical standpoint. i'm not obsessed with positions, just chemistry and player compliments. btw, a lot people have the raptors doomed for failure if they make this trade, forgetting the raptors won three straight games, with little or no contribution from j.rose and vince. vince is on work to rule, anybody in an ontario high school during that campaign understands how messy than can get. well i think its time vince bids farewell and we end the labour strife.
Dear Rob Babcock: Do this deal now! To all the ppl saying that dont acquire Reef because it will hinder Bosh's development....well with VC on the floor, that alone hinders his development. Derek Anderson, better player than VC is right now, he's just as good a shooter, probably better shooter than VC right now. You get 2 underrated players, while giving up 2 overrated, and overpaid players. The knock on reef is he doesnt show up during crunch time, I wonder who the raps crunch time player would be? Bosh/DA?
guys email the raptors to do this. tell them if the mlse board of directors are holding thing up because of vince's latent potential to sell tickets, u will boycott the raptors until vince's contract expires.
Guys, why are you being so impatient and snappy about this? If it werent for the MLSE and Babcock decision to show indications of shipping Vince out already, you wouldnt even know or be saying this stuff right now about boycotting them, they already know Vince won't sell anymore tickets, or else they wouldnt have thought about this deal in the first place and already make it sound serious. They should actually be praised for acting so fast, only like 2 games after Vince shows he's lost interest they already know to ship him. If it was Glen Grunwald we probably would've heard nothign about trade rumours so quickly and shipped him out at summer.
why does everyone want this to go down so much i dont want this trade to happen any way the blazers have accepted it they are waiting on the raptors so tonight is probably vince's last game as a raptor
Isn't anyone else tired of this team the way it is. I myself would love to see Vince go. Both VC and Toronto need a change of scenery. Vince's best years are behind him and the Raps need to rebuild. We are in the top ten for salaries and we need to reset while Vince has SOME worth. Everyone says that CB4 is the future of the Raps. Well I say the future is now. Hand over the team and lets rejuvenate this ball club. Management went through an overhaul this summer, it is time that the roster followed suit. Bye Vince.....it's been a slice!
^ Exactly, if there is anything to this rumour, the Raptors should take it and run with it (assuming they could get NVE and not Anderson). Get Vince and Jalen off the books, reap the capspace next offseason that comes with Reef, and build around Bosh and to a lesser extent, Alston. Just remember Ray expressed an interest in Toronto over the summer, and the chances of him staying in Seattle aren't high.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 02civic:</div><div class="quote_post">i dont mind this trade. its cap room...and so what if we dont get a star....we could at least up grade our bench. sure it's been doing well, but you never know. personally i like simmons, swift and joe johnson. Besides, people keep mentioning how we've never been able to sign big free agents.....WHEN HAVE WE TRIED? when have we had the cash? Toronto stands about as good a chance as getting players as alot of teams in the league. sure maybe they're not New York, LA or SA...but its better than NO and Atlanta. bosh wouldnt be bad at 3, reef can handle 3 sometimes too. and against small front courts we could do both. bosh at 5 like last year and reef at 4 with mo pete, DA/NVA/l. murray at SG and skip at PG. Not bad at all. AND even though we might not have a chance/need for the big name guys...ALOT of teams are gunna be interested in the cap space we can offer them. Think about it, we could probably get a half decent center...maybe even magloire in exchange for the ability for another team to go after redd or ray allen. Do it yesterday. But definately try to get NVA not DA. Quintel woods would be gravy...pass on Stepania rose, carter for sheed, NVA, Woods</div> I don't think you udnerstand, their's 3 big free agents out there, Redd's 2 main options will likely be Milwaukee and Cleveland, you have to put yourself in his shoes, where would you rather be, the team where you're the franchise player and doing good, the team in your hometown where you can win a championship with LJ, or the Raptors who's situation in the off-season will be uncertian? Now if you think we're just going to go out there and get Bobby Simmons, Joe Johnson and Stromile Swift, I don't know what to say, I know you're likely not implying that, but we're not going to get all three, we can get one of them though. I just don't want to do a yay we got cap space and then go into the off-season and come out with some scrubs. Players need incentives to go to a team, may it be a chance to win a championship, more PT, being the franchise player etc. Franchise player will be gone to Bosh, we wouldn't be considered to have championship hopes, and PT is something teams other than us can offer. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting "deception":</div><div class="quote_post">i didn't know about lewis' status, although i think redd would be a good signing especially since he's networked with coach mitchell. swift might be an intriguing signing if marshall wants to leave as well. anyways, read my post about how i would use reef and chris which might clarify my position from a techinical standpoint. i'm not obsessed with positions, just chemistry and player compliments. btw, a lot people have the raptors doomed for failure if they make this trade, forgetting the raptors won three straight games, with little or no contribution from j.rose and vince. vince is on work to rule, anybody in an ontario high school during that campaign understands how messy than can get. well i think its time vince bids farewell and we end the labour strife.</div> Yea Lewis is off the market, I'm fine with how they can work, but I don't see how it will help our chemistry because I really don't see Shareef being happier here when he's in the same situation he was in while in Portland except with maybe a weaker team. Also I don't know how NVE likes playing off the bench or his minutes, but we could start him even though we'd have problems defensively because of his height at the 2. Also I think Redd is out of the question, let's not get overexcited here, players don't go to connections when they're big name guys. It works for a guy like Loren Woods, but Redd will be looking for more money, a succesful team or with Milwaukee a longer contract. I mean go to your hometown or go to a team because you know the coach
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If it's Abdur-Rahim for Carter, it's dicey, not the least because Abdur-Rahim shoots too much, plays scant defence and famously wilts in the clutch. If your starting lineup includes Abdur-Rahim and Chris Bosh, both natural power forwards, one of them is out of position. And Donyell Marshall (who is a valuable, albeit tradeable, asset) is out playing time. What's more, Abdur-Rahim's contract expires at season's end. So if Babcock is basically trading Carter for salary-cap room, the general manager had better understand how attractive Toronto looks to the players he'll presumably try to woo.</div> http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentSe...ol=970081562040 <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">As word of the rumour spread around the league, there also were rumblings that some other teams might be interested in at least talking to the Raptors about Carter before Toronto decides to ship him elsewhere.</div> http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/TorontoSun/S.../19/721149.html From the Portland paper the deal is: Vince Carter Jalen Rose Milt Palacio Jerome Moiso For Abdur-Rahim Derek Anderson Vladimir Stepania
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post"> Yea Lewis is off the market, I'm fine with how they can work, but I don't see how it will help our chemistry because I really don't see Shareef being happier here when he's in the same situation he was in while in Portland except with maybe a weaker team. Also I don't know how NVE likes playing off the bench or his minutes, but we could start him even though we'd have problems defensively because of his height at the 2. Also I think Redd is out of the question, let's not get overexcited here, players don't go to connections when they're big name guys. It works for a guy like Loren Woods, but Redd will be looking for more money, a succesful team or with Milwaukee a longer contract. I mean go to your hometown or go to a team because you know the coach </div> reef can't hurt the chemistry more than what vince has done in nine games, he's created cliques on the team. reef wants his shots and he will get vince's, i don't anticipate a problem particulary since vince's shots were 22 foot fadeways. and remember van exel played with nash in dallas, both are incompetent defenders yet they won, i think altson would be an improvement over nash's attempt at defense. and if the van exel, reef deals goes through the raps can offer redd as much money as anyone on the market. and btw, the cavs are going to resign big Z before they contemplate redd which would probably put them over the cap irrespective of their desires for a shooter. and btw, i can't endure another game with carter, its going to send me to the mental ward if he's here.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting deception:</div><div class="quote_post">reef can't hurt the chemistry more than what vince has done in nine games</div> True.... <div class="quote_poster">Quoting deception:</div><div class="quote_post">he's created cliques on the team. reef wants his shots and he will get vince's, i don't anticipate a problem particulary since vince's shots were 22 foot fadeways. and remember van exel played with nash in dallas, both are incompetent defenders yet they won, i think altson would be an improvement over nash's attempt at defense. and if the van exel, reef deals goes through the raps can offer redd as much money as anyone on the market. and btw, the cavs are going to resign big Z before they contemplate redd which would probably put them over the cap irrespective of their desires for a shooter. and btw, i can't endure another game with carter, its going to send me to the mental ward if he's here.</div> I don't think we can compare our situtation with Dallas' they had a super offensive player in about every starting position, Shareef and Bosh aren't Finley and Dirk offensively, and Dallas' defense sucked then, they just scored a lot, if we try to take that path we're in for some dissapoitment, at least we get Stepania....
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post"> Shareef and Bosh aren't Finley and Dirk offensively, and Dallas' defense sucked then, they just scored a lot, if we try to take that path we're in for some dissapoitment, at least we get Stepania....</div> my point exactly, dirk and finley are shooters whereas reef can score from the inside with regularity. and mo pete, rafer and van exel would act as our shooters. plus, our defense wouldn't be as dreadful as the mavs cause we have better defenders.
I'd rather have them include some young unproven guys in the trade, Travis Outlaw or soemthing than taking Moiso and giving us Stepania, and if it's DA, it's just a horrible trade, we get nothing.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">I'd rather have them include some young unproven guys in the trade, Travis Outlaw or soemthing than taking Moiso and giving us Stepania, and if it's DA, it's just a horrible trade, we get nothing.</div> yeah i like van exel over anderson but if we could do a larger trade going down like this: VC, J.rose and Alvin for Reef, Van Exel and D.A that trade looks really appealing for both sides. of course, u could add conciliatory players to fit the cap regulations like stephania and moiso. nevertheless, this trade better go down soon or the fallout could be catastrophic for the raptos and the blazers to a lesser extent.
If the trade happens with DA just remember this: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Looking to dump long-term contracts to free up room under the NBA salary cap guidelines, Babcock purged the roster and began laying the groundwork for the future. The team's record during the past two seasons languished (53-111) as a result, and game attendance fell off. </div> Toronto Hawks, I mean Atlanta Raptors, I mean Toranta Raptawks
change is good, and long over due for vince. the hawks don't have cb4, i'm sure they were saying the same things about the wolves when kg was 20 years old and they built around him. i pointed to this before, but remember when the pacers seemingly gutted their team trading away jalen for non-descript players in brad miller and ron artest. well history absolved pacer management, cause jalen's skills eroded while artest and miller became all stars.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting deception:</div><div class="quote_post">change is good, and long over due for vince. the hawks don't have cb4, i'm sure they were saying the same things about the wolves when kg was 20 years old and they built around him. i pointed to this before, but remember when the pacers seemingly gutted their team trading away jalen for non-descript players in brad miller and ron artest. well history absolved pacer management, cause jalen's skills eroded while artest and miller became all stars.</div> Brad Miller and Artest = 2 young players at the time, SAR and DA are guys that have been around and we know what they can do, if we were getting Miles and Outlaw I'd be very happy, but these aren't non-descript guys, this is SAR and DA. Anyways, I have class, I hope the deal changes and Outlaw at least can be included, he can be a good target for Rafer on the fastbreak.
