<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">If you do that, you're essentially rewarding the Detroit fans.</div> Good, let them cop all the fines and bans. Don't stoop to their level. This isn't a situation where someone calls you out on the street, this is a situation where these players are in a position of responsibility as professional athletes, where kids look up to them and they should be withholding the honour of their sport. Yes, the fans were to blame, but every Indiana player should have headed straight for the lockerroom as soon as Artest was hit with the bottle, and refused to come out. You don't go fighting fans, period. No ifs or buts about it, that's just absolute crap.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Supersonic:</div><div class="quote_post">I really have to laugh at the amount of people saying "I would have done the same thing as Ron" and "Put yourself in Ron's shoes".</div> Comments like this really confuse me. To hell with all the politically correct garbage. How many of you have ever played basketball in a competitive league or hardcore pickup games? I have been in my share of basketball fights. Many of them were simply having my teammates backs. That is what you are supposed to do. I have been taunted by spectators, and usually I will ignore it. But if someone threw something at me I would get in their face at least (assuming that they are male and old enough to defend theirself). I'm sick of all of you who are saying "I would have just laughed, because I know that I am a professional. I would just shrug it off and go home to my million dollar house and nice cars......" thats bull. Pride is involved, and as a man I would not allow someone to pull a bitch move like that and then giggle all the way home. As if getting an above average paycheck means that they aren't going to show emotion, please . I'll write more on the topic later.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Supersonic:</div><div class="quote_post">In your school days, were you a professional under media scrutiny? Were you in a position where you required to show responsibility and a bit of restraint? Completely different situations.</div> Would you suspend Jermaine Oneal for the season as well? He punched a "fan" square in the face.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting trenchteam:</div><div class="quote_post">I never said it wasn't Indianas fault either. But to make Artest a scapegoat for what happened is stupid</div> I'm not making him a scapegoat. I'm just refusing to defend his actions like some people are.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">Would you suspend Jermaine Oneal for the season as well? He punched a "fan" square in the face.</div> I would suspend any player who makes deliberate and unnecessary contact with a fan. And that falls under that category, so of course I would suspend him. For how long is debateable, he didn't jump up into the stands and target someone there.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Supersonic:</div><div class="quote_post">I really have to laugh at the amount of people saying "I would have done the same thing as Ron" and "Put yourself in Ron's shoes". The fans were disgusting, true. But as a PROFESSIONAL athlete, you DO NOT go after fans like that. I don't care what they do, you do not under ANY circumstances do what they did today. I said Jackson and Artest should be suspended for the season, and I stand by it. One of the most ourageously dumb things I've ever seen, and I don't care what the fan did. These guys aren't 'normal people', they are role models who earn millions of dollars to play basketball. They have absolutely no place going after fans in the stand. I'm not sticking up for the fans, I think they should find the worst offenders and ban them from attending NBA games for life, but if you think you can excuse the actions of Indiana players, you are crazy.</div> Sure, they are role-models look at Ben Wallace, he pushed Ron after a decent hard foul... what a role model. And actually Ron was a role model not retaliating to Ben, he tried to use his head, get out of the way, and try to calm himself down against the scorer's board... when this lame coward hit him with a beer... IN THE FACE! <u>So, that was what Artest got for being a role-model?</u> Think again, they are millionaires but they're also humans... don't say what they should have done with loads of theories... they should be role models but they ain't naked, sinless cupids either. :thumbsup: This is what the NBA.com said: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Artest scored 24 points and <u>initially showed remarkable restraint</u>. With 45 seconds left, he fouled Ben Wallace, who <u>clearly overreacted and shoved Artest with a chokehold</u>. Artest walked away but was followed by Wallace, who had to be restrained. While players from both teams jawed at each other and order was being restored, Artest lay down on the scorer's table when he was hit with the bottle, and the Palace looked like a prison riot.</div> http://www.nba.com/games/20041119/INDDET/recap.html
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Supersonic:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm not making him a scapegoat. I'm just refusing to defend his actions like some people are.</div>
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">Ben is a fellow NBA player, and getting shoved during the game is a fairly common thing. He was trying to calm himself down. If you see the video, Ben threw a towel in his face while he was lying down, and he got up like he was going to approach Ben but an assistant coach told him to sit back down. So, his emotions at that point were running very high. And then ... BAM! .... he gets a beer thrown in his face. Should we really be surprised that he'd erupt at that point? Shaq later said he'd have done the same thing. I bet a majority of NBA players would probably have reacted the same way. That doesn't excuse it, but it makes it understandable and predictable and you gotta take that into account when levying punishments.</div> You might think that way however you are talking about someone that is crazy and a pu-k he should have gone after ben like that and he didn't so he is a wu-s and should be ban from the NBA so he can make him want to be rap album
Well, there alot of people calling him a maniac, and blaming him for the entire event. And that was has me fueled. But I've been in fights when it involved defending teammates who I consider family. Professionalism is thrown out the door. The fans kept provoking. Relentless all the way into the Locker Room. Even after Artest was restrained, they kept coming at him.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Supersonic:</div><div class="quote_post">Good, let them cop all the fines and bans. Don't stoop to their level. This isn't a situation where someone calls you out on the street, this is a situation where these players are in a position of responsibility as professional athletes, where kids look up to them and they should be withholding the honour of their sport. Yes, the fans were to blame, but every Indiana player should have headed straight for the lockerroom as soon as Artest was hit with the bottle, and refused to come out. You don't go fighting fans, period. No ifs or buts about it, that's just absolute crap.</div> But if you suspend Artest for the season, you're punishing the whole Pacers organization, including the Pacer fans. I'm all for punishing Artest. He should be suspended for some games. Maybe 10 games. Maybe 20 games. Or if you insist on suspending him for a season's worth of games, why not suspend him for half of this season, and half of the next season? But to suspend him for the entire season, I think that's just wrong-headed. That would be a huge disservice to the fans of competitive NBA basketball.
I'm sorry but if i get hit in the head with a bottle and someone calls me a ****** i will be up there beating their ASS...plain and simple. In a perfect world Ron and the pacers should of just ran into the locker room and ignored the bottles or glasses being thrown on them....LOL. YA RIGHT!! Most NBA players white or black would of done the same thing. You get hit in the head by a fan, your going to defend yourself. A fan hits you in the face, your gonig to hit him back.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting PupMelo:</div><div class="quote_post">Sure, they are role-models look at Ben Wallace, he pushed Ron after a decent hard foul... what a role model. And actually Ron was a role model not retaliating to Ben, he tried to use his head, get out of the way, and try to calm himself down against the scorer's board... when this lame coward hit him with a beer... IN THE FACE! <u>So, that was what Artest got for being a role-model?</u> Think again, they are millionaires but they're also humans... don't say what they should have done with loads of theories... they should be role models but they ain't naked, sinless cupids either. :thumbsup:</div> If he can't control himself in that situation (same with Jackson), he shouldn't be playing NBA basketball. He should go out and play pick-up ball in the park or something like that, away from the cameras and position of responsibility. There is a difference between getting mad and literally jumping over a scorer's bench and into the stands to hit someone.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Supersonic:</div><div class="quote_post">I would suspend any player who makes deliberate and unnecessary contact with a fan. And that falls under that category, so of course I would suspend him. For how long is debateable, he didn't jump up into the stands and target someone there.</div> but he didn't sucker punch someone from the side. he should be suspended for at least 10 games
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Oneinpower:</div><div class="quote_post">but he didn't sucker punch someone from the side. he should be suspended for at least 10 games</div> fans are not allowed on the courtside. What the heck was he doing there provoking Oneal and Artest. They deserved it. They were not suppose to be there. they were there for one reason. To harass Artest. Bottom Line.
Maybe if i feel the purpose or that i should i'll write on this topic.... but, i just want to say that this probably kills some of my fantasy basketball teams, wow. Ok i decided i'm going to put my feelings into it. I understand each viewpoint on this, and basically, as if i'm like skitzophrenic, can agree with both. In my mind, i would imagine myself feeling the same as artest and wanting to do the same thing, but he does make millions and in the end, it won't matter for him because that guy is just so worthless fan, and he's a big time baller. I'd have to hope that the players could use some restraint and not act out like that, because it really isn't a good standard to set. You can blame anyone, but really blame everyone. Ben wallace, ron artest, security, the fans, jermaine o'neal. They all deserve blame, and fault in this situation. None of that should have happened to begin with. None of it, and i'm sorry that it did, but it is kind of interesting. Also, all this, this is what crappy WWE is for.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting trenchteam:</div><div class="quote_post">Well, there alot of people calling him a maniac, and blaming him for the entire event. And that was has me fueled. But I've been in fights when it involved defending teammates who I consider family. Professionalism is thrown out the door. The fans kept provoking. Relentless all the way into the Locker Room. Even after Artest was restrained, they kept coming at him.</div> so the fan that got punch for nothing at all should just sit there no way if i was at the game a Ron was punching my friend that didn't do anything i would have thrown some punches too. like family look at it both ways too
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">But if you suspend Artest for the season, you're punishing the whole Pacers organization, including the Pacer fans. I'm all for punishing Artest. He should be suspended for some games. Maybe 10 games. Maybe 20 games. Or if you insist on suspending him for a season's worth of games, why not suspend him for half of this season, and half of the next season? But to suspend him for the entire season, I think that's just wrong-headed. That would be a huge disservice to the fans of competitive NBA basketball.</div> artest represents the team...if he doesnt want to hurt his team, then he should put a moments thought into his actions. dont blame the league for hurting the team by suspending artest, blame artest. he brought it on himself, he brought it on his team
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">ans are not allowed on the courtside. What the heck was he doing there provoking Oneal and Artest. They deserved it. They were not suppose to be there. they were there for one reason. To harass Artest. Bottom Line.</div> Well, they don't deserve it coming from artest and o'neal. Those little fans weren't going to hurt those players, come on, be realistic about that atleast. In that specific situation, where there was already security around that fat dumb fan, when o'neal came up and hit up square in the jaw. There was already security, let that go. Get off the court and get out of there. Artest was getting out of there, why couldn't o'neal do the same?
I truely think Ben Wallace was looking for a fight cause the Pistons were taking an L. For someone who learned to play basketball under Charles Oakley, he has given and been apart of way harder foul situations then that. Ben Wallace got that crowd stir up when he was walking around huffing & puffing about nothing. And then he throw a towel at the man. So fans threw the first thing they had in their hands which was beer. Even when the coaching staff got in between Artest and had him backing off Wallace still wanted to go at it. So I definately think Wallace has alot bigger role in this then some Piston fans want to accept.
i havent read all 8 pages but if you go to espn.com, click on "NBA" on the grey box on the left side, then click on "Video Highlights" in the grey box on the left side, it should play in espn motion, mine plays under firefox, if you use IE, it should work also. that was a crazy fight, how two fans with pistons jerseys came up and artest and o'neal both deck them in the jaw. artest alwayts committs hard, cheap flagrant-type fouls, that's not aggressive, thats dirty. ben wallace is huge, after he pushed him in his face, he still went after him and artest was backing away like a school girl. then a fan throws beer at him and he doesnt hesitate to go after him and take a swing at him. with him sitting out a couple of games earlier for personal reason, and this and the things hes done in the past, dont be surprised to see him traded very soon.
