<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">That game was a fluke. It will never happen again.</div> OMG please stop....we're not talking about the 96 Bulls here or the Celtics dynasty...we're talking about a near .500 team loosing to another near .500 team. And i'd pick toronto over New York in any 7 game series...we've already beat you guys in one series...why not go for 2. Henacy is absolutely right. Teams CAN get away with poor defense..but only if they've got a great offense. And by that i mean 100 points per game...the Knicks are loooong off the pace for 100ppg season..so they better start playing some defense.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">I dont think the Raptors will be able to win a playoff series against the Knicks. The Knicks will win last night. Everything was going the Rockets way. I actually started laughing. As for the Sweetney thing...I say that every other post. I scream at them to give the ball th Sweetney. He would have raped everyone who tried to stop him. Sweetney is getting lost in the process. We have all these perimeter players running around him not giving him the ball taking all these impossible shots. The blame also lies with Lenny Wilkens. There's a reason why teams hire coaches, its because the players cant coach themselves. But when Houston comes back(and I cant wait) these problems should go away.</div> With the kinda of perimeter defense you guys have, no. Also with Houston coming back, those perimeter defense woes will definately not go away. This team doesn't have enough offensive weapons to play like the Mavericks or Suns or Wizards, and the Suns actually play defense too, but this team ahs to play defense. In a 7 game series you guys would definately not win without perimeter defense, and also having no real shot blocker inside. KT will be able to play Bosh one on one well as I noted in the other thread he is a good defender, but as soon as our perimeter guys beat the outside guy their's not much to stop them, and with KT being foul prone, Sweetney wouldn't be able to play Bosh because of the height and quickness diffirence. Sweetney is, not like, he is a less athletic Elton Brand, and also doesn't have as good a shot etc, but that's basically what he is which is good. I like him though since I like Brand and he reminds me a lot of him, but unless the defense comes their will be struggles. The defensive guys, JYD, Ariza don't get enough minutes, and the other good defender, KT is foul prone.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">With the kinda of perimeter defense you guys have, no. Also with Houston coming back, those perimeter defense woes will definately not go away. This team doesn't have enough offensive weapons to play like the Mavericks or Suns or Wizards, and the Suns actually play defense too, but this team ahs to play defense. In a 7 game series you guys would definately not win without perimeter defense, and also having no real shot blocker inside. KT will be able to play Bosh one on one well as I noted in the other thread he is a good defender, but as soon as our perimeter guys beat the outside guy their's not much to stop them, and with KT being foul prone, Sweetney wouldn't be able to play Bosh because of the height and quickness diffirence. Sweetney is, not like, he is a less athletic Elton Brand, and also doesn't have as good a shot etc, but that's basically what he is which is good. I like him though since I like Brand and he reminds me a lot of him, but unless the defense comes their will be struggles. The defensive guys, JYD, Ariza don't get enough minutes, and the other good defender, KT is foul prone.</div> The Knicks defense is not as bad as you're making it sound. Their defense is not as bad as the Mavericks. And despite not having the best defensive perimeter presence our offense is good enough to get by the Raptors or any playoff team like Toronto in a 7 or game series. Although Bosh might be quick and taller he still is extremely skinny for the PF position and Michael Sweetney will kill him in the post. Sweetney knows how to utilize his weight and it didn't show because he played 6 minutes yeasterday. If Sweetney had played sufficient minutes it is very likely Bosh would be in some kind of foul trouble. Knicks like Crawford were just missing shots that they usually make. When Allan Houston comes back it will be much different. The offense would have been much better. Houston is arguably a top 5 shooter in the league. He managed to put up good shooting numbers while playing hurt. Houston's floor spreading will only give Mohammed more room to do damage inside. Yesterday's game was a combination of nothing falling for NYK, bad defense, and luck for the Raptors. When bench players that I never heard of were making some tough mid range shots I knew it was just a good game for Toronto.
Wow, some of you Knicks fans are extremely cocky. Notice all the predictions in the first place with everyone saying "yeah we have a better roster, we'll kill them" and then getting those words stuffed in your mouth with a blowout. Case in point: It's an NBA game, anything can happen. Don't be too cocky on predictions. Secondly: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> That game was a fluke. It will never happen again </div> I see. Do you mean the Raptors blowing your team out or just the fact that they won? If it's the 2nd option then you are priving your stupidity through arrogance once again. The Raptors are capable of beating the Knicks on any given night and vice versa. As for the blow-out, it's one of the rare times Toronto has come out firing on all cylinders. However, I think you are HIGHLY underrating Toronto's bench. That bench has almost, if not more, been as effective as our starting unit. If BOTH the starting unit and the bench play well (like they did) yesterday, then this blow-out win was definetly not a fluke. Side note: The Knicks defense just appalled me. On to another point, I don't get how you can call two almost evenly matched teams facing each other and one blowing the other one out a "fluke". Care to eleborate? So, according to your theory, if the Knicks had blown out the Raptors, that would have been a fluke as well? The Clippers blowing out the Pacers was just a fluke? Flukes don't happen concerning NBA games, they happen on shots. A blow-out win is not a "fluke", a blow out win is one team dominating the other. A game is 48 minutes long. NY had plenty of chances to come back. The Raptors straight destroyed the Knicks. Instead of avoiding that fact and reacting to it ignorantly by saying it was a fluke, just accept the fact that the Raptors played much better then the Knicks. This team has beaten the Spurs after being down by 19 and without Carter and Rose playing. We've beaten Utah on thier home court. We've beaten the defending champions. You are definetly underrating them. And by the way, to all you claiming the Knicks will beat the Raptors in 7 game series strictly based on thier rosters, that is incorrect as well. Chemistry, coaches, motivation and will all come into play. So it's really a toss-up. I predict that the Raptors will have a better record then the Knicks. anyone care for a bet?
Spawn, you're dead wrong if you're denying that there aren't flukes in basketball. The Raptors out-played the Knicks last night - they won. What more do you want?
Knicks are the most washed up and overrated team ever. I mean so many Vince haters are calling Vince washed up, u cvan argue that later, and he torched em with ease. And if u call it fluke. He'll show u guys again on Saturday. Besides he torched them all last year too. And Crawford sucked, and its the first time I seen Vince play D since a long time. His D was average, but comparing to the D on him, he was a defensive specialist. Every raptor lit it up, if Arajou scored on u guys , man, I would have gone nutz on ur guys weak d.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting arhieboy:</div><div class="quote_post">Knicks are the most washed up and overrated team ever. I mean so many Vince haters are calling Vince washed up, u cvan argue that later, and he torched em with ease. And if u call it fluke. He'll show u guys again on Saturday. Besides he torched them all last year too. And Crawford sucked, and its the first time I seen Vince play D since a long time. His D was average, but comparing to the D on him, he was a defensive specialist. Every raptor lit it up, if Arajou scored on u guys , man, I would have gone nutz on ur guys weak d.</div> Exatcly! Everyone lit it up. How many times does that happen? Don't even try and say it was because the Knicks weak D. What do you mean compared to the D on Crawford he looked like a specialist? You especially should be aware of Crawfords ability. He did drop a career high 50 on you guys last year. Many lucky shots. This will not happen at the Garden there will be no way Toronto will win that game. Do you want to do what Avery and 44thrilla did?
OK guys. One more post considering a bet made in this thread, and I will lock it. There is a high risk of a little war that may come out so lets, try to keep risk at a minimum. If you want to place a bet, we have a very nice option on this board, it's called Private Messaging. Now back to discussing the game, no more bets or wars.
The Raptors blasted the Knicks last night. But it was a FLUKE!!!Yes I said it!!! A fluke. And I will say this, the Knicks are going to beat the Raptors this weekend. No doubt in my mind about it. I'm willing to go as far to say the Raptors will not win another game in the regular season against the Knicks. Yes I said that too. Every single shot the Raptors threw up went in. It was like the hoop was as "wide as the ocean". But that wont happen again at least not against the Knicks. The Raptors just had one of those nights is all. A combination of bad shot selection, bad coaching(Raptor fans know what I'm talking about), and the zone defense that the Raptors applied accounted for the terrible shooting for the Knicks. But the Raptors arent winning against the Knicks for the rest of the season. I guarantee it. I could be underrating the Raptors but I'm certain their not winning another game against the Knicks until the post season(if they make it that far) and it'll still be only one game the Raptors will win. You all can quote me on this. Houston's return wont help the perimeter defense any but it'll stop all the bad shots and selfish plays and bring some stability back to our offense which is what were relying on now to win games. The Knicks will win the Atlantic and at the very least make it to the second round. Mark my words. Anyone disagree with me and I'll tell them why their wrong.
Actually it wasn't a fluke. Raptors lit up every meeting last year too, the difference was, both teams lit it up, this year, Loren woods is a bigger threat than Chris Bosh, and we have Skip.
I'm feeling you, Tribute I understand why you feel this way. Toronto played a great game, our defense was out of whack. Those nights happen. Every team has those nights. But maybe you need to give Toronto more credit. I think they're a pretty good team, a team that will cause some problems for us in the long run. Arhieboy, maybe you could provide your argument with some.......support?
H20 and mrj18 - you're both sad, sad people. Your team is not as good as you say..there's not as big a difference in ability between the Knicks and Raptors and i've already proven that over and over again. I proved you're not that much better than the Wiz as well.....but you keep at it. Fluke, Fluke, Fluke. I suppose it was a fluke getting blown out by Boston your first game??? Your defence IS that bad....look at the numbers, the % people are scoring against you. now 48.5%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You've been a poor defencive team for years now and Houston aint gunna help that. He'll bump you PPG up 1-3ppg but thats it....if anything you'll get scored on more. Who cares if crawford dropped 50 on us last year...he still has no defence and he didnt drop 50 on us lastnight. You're stuck in the past man...and you're deluding yourself if you think the Knicks are SUCH A GREAT TEAM that "our offense is good enough to get by the Raptors or any playoff team like Toronto in a 7 or game series" You clearly have NO IDEA what you're talking about. You're glorious offence only scores 94 ppg. 2 points LESS than your opponents. And if you DID, know anything you would be understanding that teams with average offence dont go anywhere unless they pick up the slack defensively!!! Defence is huge in the playoffs...and you guys couldnt check a highschool team. H20 - that bets retarded....you actaully honestly believe the Raps are incapable of winning vs the Knicks...despite kicking your asss lastnight!! The bench didnt do anything they havent been doing all year long. The guys you've never heard of dropping jump shots...they've been doing it all year long. and might i add that we did this with Donyell INJURED. Great that you like Sweetney...but dude aint as good as Bosh and thats obviousl. I'll see you Sunday
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">The Knicks defense is not as bad as you're making it sound. Their defense is not as bad as the Mavericks. And despite not having the best defensive perimeter presence our offense is good enough to get by the Raptors or any playoff team like Toronto in a 7 or game series. Although Bosh might be quick and taller he still is extremely skinny for the PF position and Michael Sweetney will kill him in the post. Sweetney knows how to utilize his weight and it didn't show because he played 6 minutes yeasterday. If Sweetney had played sufficient minutes it is very likely Bosh would be in some kind of foul trouble. Knicks like Crawford were just missing shots that they usually make. When Allan Houston comes back it will be much different. The offense would have been much better. Houston is arguably a top 5 shooter in the league. He managed to put up good shooting numbers while playing hurt. Houston's floor spreading will only give Mohammed more room to do damage inside. Yesterday's game was a combination of nothing falling for NYK, bad defense, and luck for the Raptors. When bench players that I never heard of were making some tough mid range shots I knew it was just a good game for Toronto.</div> Which Mavericks team are you reffering to, last years or this years? The Mavericks defense is much improved from last year, it's not even close to being the same as the previously were. Bosh went to the line 10 times yesterday, he's still skinny, but bigger than last year, and as much as Sweetney would kill him on offense he would kill Sweetney on offense too and also get the Knicks bigs in foul trouble. Unheard of bench players making tough mid-range shots? Who was that? I know you've heard of Morris Peterson and Lammond Murray, and they didn't even make "tough" shots, just normal jumpers. Milt Palacio made one tough mid-range jumper, and 2 jumpers that were given to him, and everything else were layups and free throws. Ask Washington and the Clippers what happens when you play Milt for the shot Matt Bonner is a shooter, if you haven't heard of him, you're not the first team to be surprised, he takes good shots, and he's shooting 59% on the season, and mostly on jumpers. Everyone better start getting used to it, he's been a big surprise for us and one of our best bench players. It wasn't a fluke when he scored 14 againts the Sonics on 7-9 shooting or 10 against the Nuggets on 5-9 shooting and it definately wasn't against you guys either. Go look at his numbers before you consider him some guy that never makes shots lol. So I don't know where the luck factor comes into play, Jalen, Bosh and Rafer all didn't shoot too well, and Bosh missed his free throws, but Marbury played horrible defense on Carter, he wasn't even putting a hand up at times. Crawford also played bad defense. The Wizards with Larry Hughes and Arenas were playing better D on him and Hughes was pressuring him, and he was making shots, what then would you expect when you watch him shoot like it's a pracitce. You're missing Allan Houston, guess what, we're missing Donyell Marshall who averaged 17 and 10 for us last year, and draws big men to the perimeter because of his outside shooting, it happens. Also with Crawford, he scored 50 with Jalen Rose guarding him, I won't bore you with the significance of that, but just remember it lol, and if he normally hit those shots they he must be one big fluke all together. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H20:</div><div class="quote_post">The Raptors blasted the Knicks last night. But it was a FLUKE!!!Yes I said it!!! A fluke. And I will say this, the Knicks are going to beat the Raptors this weekend. No doubt in my mind about it. I'm willing to go as far to say the Raptors will not win another game in the regular season against the Knicks. Yes I said that too. Every single shot the Raptors threw up went in. It was like the hoop was as "wide as the ocean". But that wont happen again at least not against the Knicks. The Raptors just had one of those nights is all. A combination of bad shot selection, bad coaching(Raptor fans know what I'm talking about), and the zone defense that the Raptors applied accounted for the terrible shooting for the Knicks. But the Raptors arent winning against the Knicks for the rest of the season. I guarantee it. I could be underrating the Raptors but I'm certain their not winning another game against the Knicks until the post season(if they make it that far) and it'll still be only one game the Raptors will win. You all can quote me on this. Houston's return wont help the perimeter defense any but it'll stop all the bad shots and selfish plays and bring some stability back to our offense which is what were relying on now to win games. The Knicks will win the Atlantic and at the very least make it to the second round. Mark my words. Anyone disagree with me and I'll tell them why their wrong.</div> About all our shots going in, read my reply to mrj18, weak perimeter defense will let that happen, and I hope you don't say that players that never made shots before started making them garbage I don't know how Houston coming back will stop Jamal Crawford from jacking, but sure I guess so. The Raptors not winning another game against the Knicks, common, it could happen, but not in the sense that the Knicks are better than us, but just depending on how you play. Also the Raptors playing zone defense is also an excuse, that's a pretty weak excuse, yea H20 would spread the floor, but you're not the only team that get's injuries to important players. I'd like to see us not win against the Knicks for the rest of the year, and also the Knicks are now guranteed to make it to the second round, interesting...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Knicks Analyst:</div><div class="quote_post">OK guys. One more post considering a bet made in this thread, and I will lock it. There is a high risk of a little war that may come out so lets, try to keep risk at a minimum. If you want to place a bet, we have a very nice option on this board, it's called Private Messaging. Now back to discussing the game, no more bets or wars.</div> My fault. I should have never said that. I was just getting a bit frusturated with people not giving the Knicks enough credit. My bad
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">My fault. I should have never said that. I was just getting a bit frusturated with people not giving the Knicks enough credit. My bad</div> It's actually not your fault. He probed you, me, Tribute To H20, BobbyEscobar, PrimeTime, Yming637, Tha Knick, and TNG Impact (all Knicks fans) to respond in a negative fashion. It was his fault, he probed you. Next time, just ignore him, people like him aren't worth your time.
Not giving you credit? You're the ones saying us beating you was a fluke like you're the Jordan Bulls or something.
og15- The Knicks do not get enough credit from the league, that's a fact. And we all hear it all the time, and it grows on us and becomes annoying. And after a tough loss to a team that we, Knicks fans, feel isn't at our level yet we are all vulnerable to lose our tempers. We shouldn't have used the word 'fluke', it didn't come out properly. We apologize if me made your team to feel inferior and we hope this doesn't happen in the future. Now there is a little excitement to the Knicks-Raptors games, good job guys. *One more post with a negative tone directed towards another poster and this thread will be locked.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">Not giving you credit? You're the ones saying us beating you was a fluke like you're the Jordan Bulls or something.</div> When the Knick players were missing all of those open shots and the Raptors making all of those contested ones proves it's a fluke. We will see how good your Raptors are on Saturday when they play in a rematch.
I'm not sure if i agree with you Knicks Analyst. You're entitled to your opinions of course. but it seems as though Knicks games are always being nationally televised, and sports beat writers were predicing they'd win the Atlantic and seed 3rd in the East. Now i dont see how thats not enough credit. The play of the team last year and certainly this year do not coincide with the belief they are underrated. Almost everyone picks them to be in the playoffs....between 3-7....but as i've said before..and proven at lenght, there are some quality teams that are a good match for the Knicks that too many Knicks fans view as being inferior. Toronto for example, as well as Washington. It becomes annoying for us...as fans of other teams, to constantly have Knicks fans coming to forums with this superiority complex like the game has already been played and won by the Knicks...and when they DONT win, its brushed off like it was a "never suppose to happen, one in a million game". And it happens over and over and over. No other team does that, not the spurs, not the heat, not even Detroit. Now if this is lock worthy, than i apoligize. I'm certainly not arguing or being negetive towards anybody...just stating that people should be more conciderate and understand as well that no team is a sure thing, and ANY team can beat ANYONE on any given night.
mrj18 - new your shot 41% from the field in the Toronto game...as opposed to 43% on the year. While its lower than the average...its not THAT much lower. The raps were on fire for sure. But you have to please realize that the shots the Raptors were talking...ALOT OF THEM....could not be classified as contested. A guy running at you from 8 feet away is not contesting...neither is a man standing in front of you with his hands in his pockets. Neither are the dunks and layups that seemed to occur with ease. i look forward to the rematch. it'll be a good game for two closely matched teams. I also look foward to future games...i have feeling sunday might not go well for the Knicks, and i'm predicting we take the season series by 1 or 2 games.
