<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">We are three weeks shy of the first anniversary of one of Danny Ainge's most controversial decisions in his role as the Celtics' hoop el jefe. In short, Ainge broke up a team on a five-game winning streak, a move which eventually torpedoed the 2003-04 season and cost him the best coach the team had had in a decade. Six players were involved in the deal, but one player essentially drove the deal from both sides: Ricky Davis. Ainge wanted him. The Cleveland Cavaliers wanted no more of him. Deal done. What does it say that, 49 weeks later, on the night of the Cavs' only 2004-05 visit to Boston, Davis is the only one of the six still on the active roster of either team? It says in part that the Celtics are willing to stick with the ultra-athletic swingman with a history of -- to be polite -- goofball behavior because he has potential and he's still only 25. (Until "The Brawl," Davis was seen in some circles as Artest Lite. Now that seems a bit too harsh.) </div> rest of story <font color="DarkRed">Don't put as much of the article in it next time. Moo2K4</font>
Thanks for the link, Pure Skillz. Wow, it's really strange for Peter May to write anything positive about the Celtics. Nevermind RICKY D! I hate how even though in the end it was generally positive, he had to open the article with paragraph after paragraph of negativity.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 44Thrilla:</div><div class="quote_post">Thanks for the link, Pure Skillz. Wow, it's really strange for Peter May to write anything positive about the Celtics. Nevermind RICKY D! I hate how even though in the end it was generally positive, he had to open the article with paragraph after paragraph of negativity.</div> No problem see while I agree with you about him starting it out with paragraph after paragraph of negativity. I think wha he was trying to get at is to illustrate how fans, coaches, and some people in the orginization felt about Ricky when he first came to the Celts in the sixth man trade, and how they are feeling about him now.
Yeah, that's a very positive way to look at it. But, Peter May actually writes for The Boston Globe, and I am subjected to his Celtics bashing, Ainge trashing, and amazingly negative views nearly every day. That's probably why I didn't look at it like that. One thing though, He does go WAY OVER THE TOP when he says....<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">(In Boston basketball circles, Dec. 15, 2003 is known as The Day The Music Died.)</div> Seriously, I'm from the area, and I know hundreds of diehard Celtics fans. This statement couldn't possibly be more false based on all of my experiences. But I think my problem is that I'm talking about ACTUAL Celtic fans. A typical Boston sports fan nowadays isn't really a Celtic fan anymore. They've got their Pats and their Red Sox, but since the Celtics are "rebuilding" they could care less. All they know is that the team had a better record before Ainge came, so he is the bad guy. But they don't bother to look at the big picture because they are too busy only caring about the local teams that win championships.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 44Thrilla:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah, that's a very positive way to look at it. But, Peter May actually writes for The Boston Globe, and I am subjected to his Celtics bashing, Ainge trashing, and amazingly negative views nearly every day. That's probably why I didn't look at it like that. One thing though, He does go WAY OVER THE TOP when he says.... Seriously, I'm from the area, and I know hundreds of diehard Celtics fans. This statement couldn't possibly be more false based on all of my experiences. But I think my problem is that I'm talking about ACTUAL Celtic fans. A typical Boston sports fan nowadays isn't really a Celtic fan anymore. They've got their Pats and their Red Sox, but since the Celtics are "rebuilding" they could care less. All they know is that the team had a better record before Ainge came, so he is the bad guy. But they don't bother to look at the big picture because they are too busy only caring about the local teams that win championships.</div> Well media these days always need a scape goat, and considering that the other Boston teams have both won championships all that is left is the Celtics they dont look at the Celtics storied history as the best team in basketball having the most championships out of any team in league history. All they look at is now who is winning who is not.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 44Thrilla:</div><div class="quote_post">But, Peter May actually writes for The Boston Globe, and I am subjected to his Celtics bashing, Ainge trashing, and amazingly negative views nearly every day.</div> At least he didn't go so far to remind people that the Celtics passed on Tony Parker in the NBA draft 3 times. He usually puts that in his articles at least once. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting 44Thrilla:</div><div class="quote_post">One thing though, He does go WAY OVER THE TOP when he says....(In Boston basketball circles, Dec. 15, 2003 is known as The Day The Music Died.) Seriously, I'm from the area, and I know hundreds of diehard Celtics fans. This statement couldn't possibly be more false based on all of my experiences. But I think my problem is that I'm talking about ACTUAL Celtic fans. A typical Boston sports fan nowadays isn't really a Celtic fan anymore. They've got their Pats and their Red Sox, but since the Celtics are "rebuilding" they could care less. All they know is that the team had a better record before Ainge came, so he is the bad guy. But they don't bother to look at the big picture because they are too busy only caring about the local teams that win championships.</div> Sorry, Thrilla, I'm with May on this one. That was a very bad day. You have to remember that the team had finally come together, was on a 5 game winning streak and Eric Williams was a crowd and Obie favorite. I knew right then that O'Brien was quitting and I wasn't happy about it. He was the best coach in a decade and Ainge was pushing him out the door. Also, Raef LaFrentz (who was the big name in the Antoine trade since no one knew how well Jiri was going to perform last year) had just gone on IL and was done for the year. Ainge was essentially admitting that he was tanking the season. You can't trade Aintoine Walker, Eric Williams and Tony Battie for no one that is going to help you that year. Ainge had come out and said that everything he was doing was for next year, when the East was there for the taking last year. That ticked off a lot of season ticket holders like myself. Why was I paying full price he essentially admitted that the next 60+ games were a waste? sidebar: Ainge got off on the wrong foot with me from day one, where he held his press conference on the day of game 3 of the Eastern Conference semifinals and spent the first hour bashing everyone. The celtics went out and were promptly run off the floor. I understand that things had to change and that yes, the team had probably gone as far as Toine and Pierce could take them together, but he couldn't have held the press conference a week later????? And you talk about the Celtics rebuilding and being on the back burner, which was what made Ainge's decisions just that much more head-scratching. The Celtics have to do this on the fly if they want to stay on the Boston sports radar. This is, always has been, and always will be a Red Sox town first. That much is obvious. But the Celtics have been rebuilding since 1994. People are tired of waiting (again, I'm talking about the casual sports fans - I went to every home game of their 15 win season. I need a life.) The team got 8 years of patience from the fans. They're not getting anymore. The good will is done. People will only care if you give them a reason to and show that your trying to win. Trading Williams, Brown and Battie for Mihm, Davis and Stewart didn't come off that way. Sorry, but before this drought, the Celtics had never gone more than 6 years without a championship. Face it, we're a spoiled group of fans.
CeltsMan54: First off, I have to say WHAT A GREAT POST! I mean, damn. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting CeltsMan54:</div><div class="quote_post">Sorry, Thrilla, I'm with May on this one. That was a very bad day. You have to remember that the team had finally come together, was on a 5 game winning streak and Eric Williams was a crowd and Obie favorite. I knew right then that O'Brien was quitting and I wasn't happy about it. He was the best coach in a decade and Ainge was pushing him out the door. Also, Raef LaFrentz (who was the big name in the Antoine trade since no one knew how well Jiri was going to perform last year) had just gone on IL and was done for the year. Ainge was essentially admitting that he was tanking the season. You can't trade Aintoine Walker, Eric Williams and Tony Battie for no one that is going to help you that year. Ainge had come out and said that everything he was doing was for next year, when the East was there for the taking last year. That ticked off a lot of season ticket holders like myself. Why was I paying full price he essentially admitted that the next 60+ games were a waste?</div> Lots of great points there. My opinion is that OB knew from off the bat to expect situations like this to happen. If he wasn't willing to play Ainge's style of ball, than he shouldn't have signed the contract before the season. You're right. OB was the best coach we had had in a decade, but that list of coaches is less than impressive, to put it lightly. I'll be honest, I wasn't a fan of the man. I hate how he refused to give any minutes whatsoever to young players. Well, unless of course he had no other options. (case in point-JR Bremer) I'm not so sure I totally agree with you on your point that Ainge was tanking the season by completing the deal. I think Ainge was offered talent that fit his style, and he was afraid that if he didn't complete the deal right then, he would have lost out on a good thing. I don't think the trade made the roster much worse than it was. I just think that the decline we saw afterwards was because OB/Carroll were still trying trying to play their style of hard-nosed, "punch you in the face" defense with the new quick athletic players. It wasn't until they tried to change the focus to uptempo ball that they finally started winning again. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">sidebar: Ainge got off on the wrong foot with me from day one, where he held his press conference on the day of game 3 of the Eastern Conference semifinals and spent the first hour bashing everyone. The celtics went out and were promptly run off the floor. I understand that things had to change and that yes, the team had probably gone as far as Toine and Pierce could take them together, but he couldn't have held the press conference a week later?????</div>Yup, I totally agree. Don't worry, I hated him at first, too. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And you talk about the Celtics rebuilding and being on the back burner, which was what made Ainge's decisions just that much more head-scratching. The Celtics have to do this on the fly if they want to stay on the Boston sports radar. This is, always has been, and always will be a Red Sox town first. That much is obvious. But the Celtics have been rebuilding since 1994. People are tired of waiting (again, I'm talking about the casual sports fans - I went to every home game of their 15 win season. I need a life.) The team got 8 years of patience from the fans. They're not getting anymore. The good will is done. People will only care if you give them a reason to and show that your trying to win. Trading Williams, Brown and Battie for Mihm, Davis and Stewart didn't come off that way. Sorry, but before this drought, the Celtics had never gone more than 6 years without a championship. Face it, we're a spoiled group of fans.</div>I think casual fans need to be reminded of how great it was when the Red Sox won the world series, and how frustrating it got every time they came so close, but failed. Ainge is trying to build a team that will win a championship, not one that will compete but never has what it takes to make it. To be honest, I couldn't care less what casual fans think, but they aggrivate me because instead of just ignoring the Celtics, they criticize them.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 44Thrilla:</div><div class="quote_post"> My opinion is that OB knew from off the bat to expect situations like this to happen. If he wasn't willing to play Ainge's style of ball, than he shouldn't have signed the contract before the season. You're right. OB was the best coach we had had in a decade, but that list of coaches is less than impressive, to put it lightly. I'll be honest, I wasn't a fan of the man. I hate how he refused to give any minutes whatsoever to young players. Well, unless of course he had no other options. (case in point-JR Bremer) </div> I just have to say that you know as well as I do that the contract extention was symbolic gesture. It was a thanks and bonus for rescuing the franchise from Rick Pitino. But I have to ask you this about how OB wouldn't play the young kids. IS ANYONE ELSE? Look at the "talent" brought in for him: Klack, Moiso, Brown, Forte, Johnson (ok, that one I'll give you). It's not like the first four should be preparing their Springfield induction speeches. I know what you're saying: "Those weren't Danny's picks, Banks and Perkins were." And no, he wouldn't play Banks or Perkins. But is Doc? No. Banks was only playing until West was healthy and Perkins has played MAYBE 20 minutes all season. It's not like any of the guys we shipped out (except Johnson and Songalia, and that was only because we didn't have room for him) have become contributers for other teams. OB played Brandon Hunter in stretches last year and is playing Iguduala this year. If they have talent, he'll put them on the floor. Its the players, Thrilla, not the coach. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting 44Thrilla:</div><div class="quote_post">I think casual fans need to be reminded of how great it was when the Red Sox won the world series, and how frustrating it got every time they came so close, but failed. Ainge is trying to build a team that will win a championship, not one that will compete but never has what it takes to make it. To be honest, I couldn't care less what casual fans think, but they aggrivate me because instead of just ignoring the Celtics, they criticize them.</div> Yeah, but its those casual fans who fill the upper bowls all season and move into the lower bowl come playoff time. Bottom line, winning fills seats and what Danny did his first year in Boston drove away the casual fans and their disposable income. The problem with casual fans is that honestly, no one over the age of 30 can get over the fact that this isn't 1986 anymore. The one moment that I actually respected Rick Pitino was the "Larry Bird's not walking thru that door" speech. Its something that needed to be said. I keep hearing about how good that team was. Well, guess what, that was 18 years ago. Let it go. The quintissential moment for me was during a game in the 2002 playoff run where the guy behind me (hand to GOD) wondered aloud where Dino Radja was. I nearly threw up in disgust. DINO RADJA?? He had been gone for <u>5 years</u>. If thats how much you follow the team, stay home.
Ricky Davis went to my high school, North High in Davenport Iowa and the hype on Ricky in HS was insane Davenport was behind him 110%. Then he spent a year at Iowa and the whole state was in love with him but ask Ricky where he is from now and he will tell you he is from Las Vegas. Boston can have him, Las Vegas can have him, Ricky is a punk and Davenport...no the state of Iowa denounces YOU Ricky. Now all of that being said he does have talent and the Celtics could have done much worse than to get a guy who can jump out of the gym and is averaging 15.5 a game. Thats my opinion but he is still a punk in my book.
