Teammates unhappy with Kobe?

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">Maybe he had really high expectations and was expecting 32-8-8, 2+ steals, and 50% FG </div>

If we had a solid pg who can play d and make plays cough cough Baron Davis maybe he could put up those numbers in my honest opinion but while we have backup point guards running forcing Kobe to play point guard and shooting guard, well that is never going to happen.

 

Jordan was appreciated because of the way he moved without the ball...Kobe doesn't have the luxury.

 

I don't think moving Baron Davis to LA is a good idea at all. BDiddy jacks up 19-21 shots per game in NO, that's more than Kobe! I'd rather have Odom (who takes HALF as many shots as Baron) pair up with Kobe than having Bdiddy. He's a scoring PG that will take many, many shots away from Kobe in order to be effective. We all know that can't happen in Kobeland.. A solid, non-superstar, defensive PG would be more ideal to pair up with Kobe.

This is directed to whoever brought up the word "Kobe" and "Jordanesque" in the same sentence. Why? Why even bother starting a fire with the Kobe/Jordan argument? Not to start a flaming war here, but who said Kobe is supposed to be Jordanesque anyways?

As much of a non-Kobe guy that I am, I do recognize where credit is due. Kobe is doing all he can to help the team out here, and about him shooting 40%, yes that's subpar, but what can he do? Pass more to Odom and watch him shoot 40%?

Anyways, regarding the original issue, I'm interested to see which teammate(s) said this. Cause obviously in the name of Kobe, they'll get traded away and that means more trade options for my favorite teams! Can someone with ESPNinsider shed some light?

PS: Whoever said "who cares who the teammate is"... obviously we all care, that's why this thread has 23 replies already??

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Billa_Bong:</div><div class="quote_post">If we had a solid pg who can play d and make plays cough cough Baron Davis maybe he could put up those numbers in my honest opinion but while we have backup point guards running forcing Kobe to play point guard and shooting guard, well that is never going to happen.</div>
Have you watched Baron play? I like him a lot, but he's not going to improve Kobe's scoring, if you had Baron, his scoring would go down because of how many shots Baron takes, the team needs a setup PG, who plays defense, and can hit the outside shots, not a superstar PG who's going to demand shots. The requirements are pretty high though, a lot of players would like to have that.



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">PS: Whoever said "who cares who the teammate is"... obviously we all care, that's why this thread has 23 replies already??</div>
lol, that is true...

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Well as of now... Kobe's the one who's not really performing up to par. He was supposed to reach "jordan-esque" numbers, which he really isn't doing at all. 40% fg doesn't help either, sepcially when your'e taking the most shots in the league. He is getting more assists than I expected him to though, still not like Jordan. And his team really needs Shaq, but too bad that's gone...
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Wow.....your lack of respect and ability to give credit where its due simply astounds me. And where did Jordan come from? This is Kobe Bryant we're talking about, no one's comparing him to Michael in this thread (aside from you) so just stop it with those stats comparison which will add more fuel to the fire between you and Laker fans.

 

Well... before the season... I've read everywhere, forums, magazines, websites... Without Shaq Kobe is going to EXPLODE with or without a PG, because that's how a great a player he was. And everyone was comparing him to Jordan. Which obviously Kobe wants to be like if you see him play and what he does. Jordan didn't have a super PG either.

And right now, I would say Kobe for MVP is a long shot unless he takes his team to the top of the Western Conference.

P.S - Wade's doing just as good as Kobe right now, and he's only in his 2nd year... You can say it's cause he has Shaq, but he still would've done just as good without Shaq... Since you guys are talking about Wade and Dorell Wright...

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting spawn:</div><div class="quote_post"> Wow.....your lack of respect and ability to give credit where its due simply astounds me. And where did Jordan come from? This is Kobe Bryant we're talking about, no one's comparing him to Michael in this thread (aside from you) so just stop it with those stats comparison which will add more fuel to the fire between you and Laker fans.</div>

Your saying Kobe's playing near your expectations? This guy was supposed to put up 35 PPG, Shoot 45-50%, 2+SPG etc. His assists have gone up, but his TO's have gone WAY up. I understand he needs the ball in his hands because Atkins is a sorry excuse for a PG, but he does things that are just unecessary sometimes. His defense can be astonishing sometimes, and 'All-Defense first team?' other times. He really is a great player, but Laker fans overhype him too much.

 

Some people are so funny...quick to say we overhype Kobe, yet Shaq's MVP numbers are...well...nonexistant.

Sure, everyone from BSPN to John Salley said that he would score 35 PPG...but they also said that Shaq would drop 30 PPG this season, with a career high in rebounds, and the Heat would be in the Finals and Shaq would have an MVP.

Maybe it's because Kobe is in unfamiliar territory? It's almost like he's starting over. Odom is disappointing, Grant is hurt...Butler is playing semi-pro ball defensively...and there's people pointing fingers at Kobe, blaming him for everything from Malone's actions to not scoring 50 PPG and for not sharing the ball...I could go on.

But I won't...because it's the same old tune. He asked for it...it's Kobe's fault for losing those games...he isn't playing like Jordan...Kobe can't finish games...etc. Well, let's see...Kobe didn't ask for mediocre performances from other players. He didn't ask for the Lakers to blow leads. Kobe doesn't want to be Michael Jordan. He can't finish games because he's playing two spots on the floor for 45+ minutes each night.

But when someone asks WHY...it's so easy to point fingers at Kobe Bryant.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post">Sure, everyone from BSPN to John Salley said that he would score 35 PPG...but they also said that Shaq would drop 30 PPG this season, with a career high in rebounds, and the Heat would be in the Finals and Shaq would have an MVP.</div>

Not surprisingly, that is the only prediction that's still valid.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post">Maybe it's because Kobe is in unfamiliar territory? It's almost like he's starting over. Odom is disappointing, Grant is hurt...Butler is playing semi-pro ball defensively...and there's people pointing fingers at Kobe, blaming him for everything from Malone's actions to not scoring 50 PPG and for not sharing the ball...I could go on.</div>

What are you talking about? Odom is not disappointing. He actually exceeded my expectations. First of all he has never flourished out here in the West. One season in Miami won't change that. Second, he's actually been putting up similar numbers in everything except a 3 ppg difference. His shooting FG% has gone up, rebounds went up, less TOs, a little less assists but that's a wash, etc etc. Look at it. If Odom would've gotten 4 more shots per game, his scoring average could've EXCEEDED last season's. So again, I do not see how Odom has been disappointing. Brian Grant sucks and everybody knows he's gonna suck even more out here in the West so who cares if he's hurt. Butler's offense has more than made up than his defense.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post">But I won't...because it's the same old tune. He asked for it...it's Kobe's fault for losing those games...he isn't playing like Jordan...Kobe can't finish games...etc. Well, let's see...Kobe didn't ask for mediocre performances from other players. He didn't ask for the Lakers to blow leads. Kobe doesn't want to be Michael Jordan. He can't finish games because he's playing two spots on the floor for 45+ minutes each night.

But when someone asks WHY...it's so easy to point fingers at Kobe Bryant.</div>

It is easy to point fingers at Kobe because it is the fact. He wanted to be the absolute leader and he got what he wished for. Can you really dispute that ultimately Shaq, Fish, Fox, Horry, Payton, and now Malone are ousted from LA in the name of one Kobe Bryant? I've heard of Shaq's salary argument. Fine, I'll buy into that a little, but what about the rest?

One more thing, Kobe didn't ask for mediocre performances from other players? So he wanted them to play extremely well like superstars? I don't follow your logic. If anything, these players (with the exception of Odom) are playing up to par with respect to their potential and that can actually be attributed to Kobe passing more to his open teammates.

In the end, it's Kobeland anyways. He controls who plays, who stays, who coaches, etc etc. The team lives and dies by Kobe now. So of course if the Lakers are not in playoff contention (that's their status as of now) then it's Kobe's fault. How can you not blame him for at least 80% of it?

 

I can't blame Kobe for 80% of it because the players don't even make up for 20% of that team's success. If it wasn't for Kobe, I seriously believe we would be near the Warriors at the bottom of the Pacific...with about 3 or 4 wins.

When I watch the games, the only player getting everyone involved is Kobe. That's what he was supposed to do...but it's not working. When he takes over the games, it doesn't work. Those two resolutions aren't working...so that tells me that it's not Kobe. He's done everything he could possibly do, and so now it's time for the Lakers to either make a trade or for the teammates to step up and play defense.

 

I'm not exactly saying that the reason the Lakers aren't doing well this season so far is Kobe's fault in terms of playing. In fact, like you said, he's been getting the best out of most of the other players by getting them open looks and setting them up. Maybe they need to time to work together like the new Rockets, who knows.

Now the point I'm trying to get is that the Lakers wouldn't be in this position if Kobe isn't so power hungry within the team. He single handedly dismantled a winning team this past summer. Shaq, ok fine, he's gone because he's got a big ego also. Fox was gonna retire anyways, but what about the rest? I'm pretty darn sure he would've been able to persuade Dr. Buss to take Payton and Fish up again, but why didn't he? I understand Payton's been underperforming, but he's still an above average PG (better than Chucky at least) and his salary is not that expensive. I'm not being sarcastic here, but I just don't understand at all. Does he feel the need to start over with mediocre players (except Odom) just so that the spotlight can be all his? This is why I think Kobe is 80% of the problem. He got the Lakers to where they are today.

 

Look, other fans aren't going to understand this...but when you've won three straight, and you're used to being either in the WCF's or the Finals every year...anything less is unacceptable.

Shaq and Kobe weren't going to get it done again. They lost two years in a row. Now, out of the two, Kobe is more valuable in the long run, and actually may have been more valuable as of today. Payton was complaining all of last season...even to the point where he said that he should be the primary option. Come on, that's ridiculous. Fisher was leaving regardless of what Kobe did to try and keep him, only because the Warriors were going to offer him much more than the Lakers.

Kobe has, in fact, made these guys better. Mihm is a better player, Tierre isn't doing so bad (not NBDL anymore), and Brian Cook is surprisingly improving. However, that's not all there is to it. NOW...the team has to gel; they have to develop chemistry. No matter how good the players are...without chemistry, NO team wins.

It's going to take a while...but soon enough, the Lakers will be able to throw better passes, know exactly how to switch up on defense, play better, and have effective transitions, all while working together on things such as fast breaks and defending pick and rolls, ball distribution, etc. Once that shows, the Lakers will be an elite team once again.

 

First of all the way we have played and to be 10-8 in the Wester Conference, How can that not be good? Secondly Kobe has done everything he can to help get everyone involved its just that theyre not doing it back for him.

Once are true second option, Which should be Odom starts playing the way he should everything will come together and if Odom doesnt Caron is going to have to take that responsibility. Its very simple we need to play team ball not give the ball to Kobe and run away.

Rudy T needs to talk to Chucky tell him to bring down the ball set up Kobe a few times, Tell Odom to take it up a few times or to go all the way to the hoop which he is very capable of doing.

Cmon Lets Go Lakers!

PS: Wheres the Clippers-Lakers Game Thread??

 

Cmon guys Chad Ford is a Kobe hater. This guy never wrote a positive Kobe story. This story is completely false. Odom? Did you see the Olympics? This guy looks like this all the time. He more than likely is angry about the foul calls.

Check out the reasons why it isn't him:
a) You gotta look at him on the bench. He's cheering his tail off (not as much as Sasha, but who is?). Odom has never been on of those ring chasers (Malone); so he isn't pissed about not being on a contender (look at this, he did go to Rhode Island and they weren't going nowhere).
Financial Stability. The dude is the second highest paid on the team and has the same amount of years on his contract as Kobe.
c) Ah, he plays for the Lakers! They are the #1 sports franchise, at least 60 games on TV, and...nationwide appeal, I mean who would have known Derek Fisher if he didn't play in Los Angeles?
d) Finally, watch the game. This dude has more plays ran for him than anyone, even Kobe. He and Mihm get more passes than anyone.

Look, this "propaganda" is divinding the Laker Nation. We need a "call to arms" and start boycott or something...I'm serious. Who's coming with me?

<font color="red"><font size="1">MR BRYANT...when you post, you can't use caps on every word. Please read the JBB Guidelines if any of this is unclear. I've edited this,also...but this is the final warning. Next time, I'll be forced to delete the entire post.

-Brandon</font></font>

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SupraJames:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm pretty darn sure he would've been able to persuade Dr. Buss to take Payton and Fish up again, but why didn't he? I understand Payton's been underperforming, but he's still an above average PG (better than Chucky at least) and his salary is not that expensive.</div>
Buss is a smart GM. Fisher, as much as we all love him, is getting WAAAY overpaid. There is no way any sane person would pay him that much and no way any person, sane or not, would try to one up it.

Payton is a good PG but as much as we need a PG, we need a big man even more. Mihm is more important long term than Payton. It was a good trade and that isn't even disputable. Payton is on his last legs and Mihm is still VERY young.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Undertakernv:</div><div class="quote_post">Buss is a smart GM. Fisher, as much as we all love him, is getting WAAAY overpaid. There is no way any sane person would pay him that much and no way any person, sane or not, would try to one up it.

Payton is a good PG but as much as we need a PG, we need a big man even more. Mihm is more important long term than Payton. It was a good trade and that isn't even disputable. Payton is on his last legs and Mihm is still VERY young.</div>

Fisher at around $5 mil is way overpaid? Geez, talk about loyalty... Fisher is a clutch player that do all the little things on the court. Anyways, whatever, if you want overpaid, Brian Grant is getting $13 million this year, $14.4 million next year, and $15.5 million the year after that. Now I understand Lakers had to take on his salary to land Odom, but my point is if the Lakers were sane enough to take on that kind of retarded salary, why not bust out $5 mil to keep Fisher? To me, a clutch shooter of Fisher's caliber is worth the $5 mil.

I have to give it to Kupchak on the Payton one actually, I forgot that he was traded for Mihm. Good trade even though it costed the Lakers their first round pick.

At any rate, I digress. Carry on.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Kobe 8 Ball:</div><div class="quote_post">If I had to guess it would be Odom too. I didnt think Odom and Kobe would be a good connection, not because of Kobe, but because of L.A. Odom had already flustered there once. If Odom doesnt pan out by the allstar break I really wouldnt mind shopping him for a really good caliber PG or PF. I really think Baron Davis would be a great fit here in L.A. becuase it is his hometown and I think he would love playing in front of his home crowd. A lineup of Baron, Kobe, Caron, Cook, and Mihm would be really good I think.

Then again, I could be completely wrong and it could be someone else's agent..such as...Slava or someone...</div>

It definately isn't Slava. The guy inked a pretty monstrous deal for his skill level, so why would he be complaining? I pretty much agree with everyone on this, it's probably Odom.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SupraJames:</div><div class="quote_post">Fisher at around $5 mil is way overpaid? Geez, talk about loyalty... Fisher is a clutch player that do all the little things on the court. Anyways, whatever, if you want overpaid, Brian Grant is getting $13 million this year, $14.4 million next year, and $15.5 million the year after that. Now I understand Lakers had to take on his salary to land Odom, but my point is if the Lakers were sane enough to take on that kind of retarded salary, why not bust out $5 mil to keep Fisher? To me, a clutch shooter of Fisher's caliber is worth the $5 mil.
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Little things on the court doesn't substantiate a contract that is worth twice as much as what Boykins is making. We don't need another shooter anyway, we need a ball handler and Fisher doesn't fit that description, unfortunately.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Undertakernv:</div><div class="quote_post">Little things on the court doesn't substantiate a contract that is worth twice as much as what Boykins is making. We don't need another shooter anyway, we need a ball handler and Fisher doesn't fit that description, unfortunately.</div>

? Why is Boykins mentioned in this argument?

Anyways, I digress too much, I'll let u have the last word, but understand that I won't reply in the name of keeping the thread on topic... which looks to be as hopeless as a Shaq-Kobe reunion...