<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SupraJames:</div><div class="quote_post">Reason why people don't knock on KG nor MJ for taking a million shots per game is because they actually make them, unlike Kobe, who's currently shooting UNDER 40%. Leader or not, that is unacceptable. MJ shot over 50% (ridiculous for a guard) and KG currently shoots 10% BETTER than Kobe right now and that's a HUGE difference. When you have players that are making around 50% of their shots, nobody's gonna knock them for not passing that much...</div> But then they don't account for the fact that the Wolves have Sprewell, Cassell, Griffin, Hassell, Hoiberg, Wally, etc...all guys who can either play good offense, good defense, or both, and can hit shots. Butler is inconsistent, Odom is inconsistent (with the exception of rebounding), and aside from these two and Kobe, everyone else don't even show up for the games.
You talk as if KG doesn't pass to those people... He averages 6 assists per game man as an FC.. which is one of the best as a big man. You don't see very many 6 apg from guards, let alone from a big man. Nobody in their right mind would ever call KG a ballhog. Anyways, in tonight's game vs Orlando, Lakers won, but Kobe shot 6 for 23.. that's under 30%. I personally think he shot too much. Only reason the Lakers pulled it off is Jumaine Jones had a career night hitting 7 out of 8 three pointers... What's your take on Kobe's ballhogging situation?
Kobe isnt ballhogging, he has to handle the ball..no one else can do it. He is also being forced to shoot the ball with 6 seconds or less on teh shot clock, they just arent stupid shots...if you gave Kobe the pg that KG has, then you would see his FG% jump back up.
You beat me to it. Kobe needs a PG. Plus, his FG% is down so much, and he's unable to finish games, because he's playing 40+ minutes as the PG, SG, perimeter defender, offensive threat, passing threat, team leader, etc.
One more thing, do not even bring up the MJ arguement because MJ had a lot of good help, he had Ron Harper (A top 5 player to never be an allstar, very underrated), Scottie Pippen, BJ Armstrong, and other pieces during his tenure in Chicago..mainly Ron Harper and BJ Armstrong, both very good point guards who relieved a lot of pressure off of MJ.
I kinda have to agree with SupraJames. As big of a Kobe fan I am, this is exactly why I ABSOLUTELY DISLIKE it when people compare Kobe to Jordan. Please. How ignorant. Is Ray Allen god then? Because Ray Allen is playing way better Basketball then Kobe Bryant right now.
Ray Allen have players to fall back on if the lead is lost. Also, he's not the lone scoring option, either. He's got a surprisingly good PG in Ridnour, with Daniels...and he also has Rashard. That's more than what Kobe has right now (although Kobe's teammates SHOULD be playing better). Also, consider that the Sonics have been a team much longer...it's about time they get some wins.
You know what, nevermind, with the exception of Cody 7k, I should've known better than try to instill some sense into Kobenutlickers like you guys. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Real Deal:</div><div class="quote_post">Here's what I don't understand, though. Everyone criticizes Kobe for his passing (or lack of), but the reigning MVP, Kevin Garnett, passes less than Bryant. I understand he's a PF/SF, but he's the leader of the pack, also, and has alot more touches than anyone else on that team. You never hear anything bad about KG. It doesn't make sense.</div> That is one of the most Kobe-biased quote I've ever seen. It is disgusting. I can't believe you think KG is a ballhog... Kobe is not God. Get that into your head.
You know what, nevermind, with the exception of Cody 7k, I should've known better than try to instill some sense into silly Kobelovers like you guys. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Real Deal:</div><div class="quote_post">Here's what I don't understand, though. Everyone criticizes Kobe for his passing (or lack of), but the reigning MVP, Kevin Garnett, passes less than Bryant. I understand he's a PF/SF, but he's the leader of the pack, also, and has alot more touches than anyone else on that team. You never hear anything bad about KG. It doesn't make sense.</div> That right there is one of the most Kobe-biased posts I've ever seen. It's disgusting. The fact that you tried to diss KG by thinking him as a ballhog makes me sick. If you're gonna defend a player, then defend him, don't be a little B***h and bring other players down. Kobe ain't no God, certainly not a Saint, he's just a great player just like Tmac, AI, etc. We give Kobe his props and we criticize him also just like we do with all the other stars. He ain't nothing special. Get that through your head.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SupraJames:</div><div class="quote_post">That right there is one of the most Kobe-biased posts I've ever seen. It's disgusting. The fact that you tried to diss KG by thinking him as a ballhog makes me sick. If you're gonna defend a player, then defend him, don't be a little B***h and bring other players down. Kobe ain't no God, certainly not a Saint, he's just a great player just like Tmac, AI, etc. We give Kobe his props and we criticize him also just like we do with all the other stars. He ain't nothing special. Get that through your head.</div> First off, Garnett is just an example. How about McGrady, then? I actually expected more from the Rockets than the Lakers. And I'm not saying Kobe is a god or a saint...and there isn't a single player, past or present, that is. What I'm saying is that if you're going to criticize Kobe for his "lack of passing" and his shot selection, open your eyes and see that it's not entirely Kobe's fault. You can call people names all you want...but you were sure quick to defend McGrady in his thread after the incredible performance he had.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Real Deal:</div><div class="quote_post">First off, Garnett is just an example. How about McGrady, then? I actually expected more from the Rockets than the Lakers.</div> That's fine. Tmac's a ballhog and even if he's a Rockets player, I won't defend him on that issue because I know that it's a fact. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Real Deal:</div><div class="quote_post">You can call people names all you want...but you were sure quick to defend McGrady in his thread after the incredible performance he had. </div> And why wouldn't I? It was one of the best clutch moments in NBA history which includes 13 points in 33 seconds, one of them a 4 point play (a rarity in itself), and then some idiot comes along and diss it. "His game might have been impressive but stop making a big deal about it. Wow...a game winner! Thats not something really that special. Theres been about a million of them in the NBA." Explain to me how that's not a retarded post. If you look again at that thread, everybody was defending Tmac in a way and nobody was knocking on him except for your silly brother.
Okay SupraJames... How many assists should Kobe average? How many shots should he take? How well (or bad) did you think the Lakers would do before the start of the preseason? I'm ready for your answers to this.
A is it just me or does it seem that every post in this board turns into a Laker fan who is always accussed of being a Kobe fan because he likes the Lakers against someone in the forum. I think that both of you make very good points first to start off with I think that I would agree with SupraJames you can not hate on the fact that KG shoots more just because he has more guys to rely on. This season total KG has taken 257 field goal attempts and made 177 of them very nice, and that is from the reigning mvp so you would expect him to take his own number of shots. I mean the guy is no ball hog though he averages 7 asists which is incredable for a big man he could probably average a triple double if he wanted to. You also can not hate on him ,because he is shooting around 50 % from the field. I think Kobe and Tmac would be a fairer comparison then Kobe and KG. Now you look at Kobes field goal attmepts he has attempted 413 and mad eless than KG with 161. Of cours enow you have to look at like real deal said the scorers and threats that KG has on his team compared to Kobe's. Kobe like Real Deal stated is a basic one man show in Los Angeles right now he is the only consistant scoring option for them, and unlike Minnesota where you know who you may have big nights from Cassel, Spree, and KG, as well as Wally, and Hudson. In LA all you have is two streaky scorers depending on shots given and taken, and a few players who step up big one game like Jones did and then just disappear the next couple of games. they ahve no number two or three option like Minnesota does.During the jordan era he had Pippen, Rodman (given he was more of a defender), Kerr, Paxson, and Grant who all demanded a defender and where capable of coming up big every ngith if they got the chanc eos you really could not turn your attnetion away from them completely although jordan was the greatest scorer ever. It was a pick your posion method when you played them in terms of they ahd so many ways to kill you. LA does not have that right now. kobe is the main venom for them. The others are just really a small sting at best. Now I am trying to look at this from a solid stand point without being bias to either side, because both side shave good points. You really can not compare KG and Kobe, and call KG a selfish player, because of his field goal percentage, and the total shot she has taken compared to Kobes. Then again you can not say Kobe is so much just selfishness because he is trying to get his team the win most of the time. True he is selfish at times and shoots when he should pass and passes when he should shoot, but without great players around you there is not much you can really do. He is trying to be a leader for his team this is his first season by himself in LA and he is going through growing pains in finding out what he should and shouldnt do it is to early to label him.
Pure, that's my point though. KG isn't selfish, and neither is Kobe. What I was getting to was that if Kobe is considered a selfish player, you might as well consider Garnett one too...because it doesn't make sense.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Real Deal:</div><div class="quote_post">Pure, that's my point though. KG isn't selfish, and neither is Kobe. What I was getting to was that if Kobe is considered a selfish player, you might as well consider Garnett one too...because it doesn't make sense.</div> I think what people a lot of times do is they do not conisder shots taken when they deside who they should call a selfish player they look at shots made. So basically if a guy shoots 40 shots a game and makes 30 of them he is not selfish, but if he takes 40 shots and makes 15 or 17 of them then he is selfish. I think that basiclaly what many people look at is Kobes shot percentage ad how low it is. Yet like you said before he has no one around him to realy take attention away from him which causes him to be the main focuses of opponents defenses. Then the term of shooting gaur din this day and age almost guarentees you wont be shooting 50% plus. Now a days it is rare to find a guard who leads his team and shoots over 50%. It all comes down in the end to when the Lakers face another team if Kobe doesnt score he is critizised , if he doesnt score and they win he is critizised, if he scores and they lose he is critizised, if they score and they win he is a hero.
Kobe isn't a selfish player. Well, sometimes he is. But not always. He's just being critiziced for being #12 in the NBA in field goals made and #2 in the NBA in field goals attempted. In other words: 161/413. 39%??? Michael Jordan could take that many shots too, which i'm sure he did... if not more. But he isn't critiziced like Kobe is BECAUSE... he made OVER 50% of those shots. So his would have been like... 210/413 or something. That's all SupraJames was saying? Edit: Crap. Pure and I posted at the same time. Oh well, well said.
How many assists should Kobe average? His assist average is just about right. How many shots should he take? You might be surprised with this answer: He should probably take only 2-3 shots less than what it is right now. He should somehow get Odom more involved and, as a team leader, tell Odom or set Odom up to take more shots. What we should focus on though, isn't really how many shots he should take, it's what kind of shots he should take. Good shots only. There will be nights where his teammates aren't feeling it and he'll have the green light to try to carry the team, but come on, last night Odom only had 9 shots at 5 for 9... That's not enough attempts for him in my opinion. How well (or bad) did you think the Lakers would do before the start of the preseason? I had them from barely missing the playoffs to barely making it and I'm standing by that statement. Unless a major trade or injury happens, I don't see the Lakers finishing better than 7th or 8th spot, which is a pretty good feat considering they're in the West and have a relatively new team. Anymore questions?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SupraJames:</div><div class="quote_post">How many assists should Kobe average? His assist average is just about right.</div> Great. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting SupraJames:</div><div class="quote_post">How many shots should he take? You might be surprised with this answer: He should probably take only 2-3 shots less than what it is right now.</div> Great. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting SupraJames:</div><div class="quote_post">He should somehow get Odom more involved and, as a team leader, tell Odom or set Odom up to take more shots.</div> And if Rudy Tomjanovich disagrees? Also...setting up Odom will take both Kobe AND Odom...but I rarely see Odom moving without the ball as much as he should be, if he is indeed the second scoring option. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting SupraJames:</div><div class="quote_post">What we should focus on though, isn't really how many shots he should take, it's what kind of shots he should take. Good shots only.</div> If every player in the league can take "good shots only"...then everyone would be shooting over 50% or more. You can't take a good shot with 4 on the shot clock and none of your teammates are moving. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting SupraJames:</div><div class="quote_post">There will be nights where his teammates aren't feeling it and he'll have the green light to try to carry the team, but come on, last night Odom only had 9 shots at 5 for 9... That's not enough attempts for him in my opinion.</div> Read above. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting SupraJames:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't see the Lakers finishing better than 7th or 8th spot, which is a pretty good feat considering they're in the West and have a relatively new team.</div> And considering Kobe is leading this team pretty much by himself, involving players or not. I don't like to pick on anyone else, but Odom and Butler are doing just about as good as Juwan Howard, Drew Gooden and Tyronn Lue did in Orlando last year...maybe better, but not by much. Oh, and like you said, the Lakers are in the West. So, let's blame Kobe some more.
^^ Well said by this you can see that Kobe given the circumstances and the people around him will make the most of his team and will never give up because he is one of the very few players in this game that has love for the game.
What does your answer "Great." mean? Is that agreeing? Or is that u being a smartass by using sarcasm? <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Real Deal:</div><div class="quote_post">And if Rudy Tomjanovich disagrees? Also...setting up Odom will take both Kobe AND Odom...but I rarely see Odom moving without the ball as much as he should be, if he is indeed the second scoring option.</div> Do you think Kobe cares whether Rudy agrees or not? I don't think so. It's all about Kobe. He gets whatever he wants. That aside, let's say Rudy's been telling Odom to move and Odom still doesn't move. Kobe is the team leader. If Odom doesn't like to move despite Rudy yelling at him, then Kobe should do his job as a team leader and tell Odom to play harder. If Kobe's done that and Odom still doesn't move, then it's time to trade him. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Real Deal:</div><div class="quote_post">If every player in the league can take "good shots only"...then everyone would be shooting over 50% or more. You can't take a good shot with 4 on the shot clock and none of your teammates are moving.</div> Ok, then why don't Kobe or Rudy get them moving? <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Real Deal:</div><div class="quote_post">And considering Kobe is leading this team pretty much by himself, involving players or not. I don't like to pick on anyone else, but Odom and Butler are doing just about as good as Juwan Howard, Drew Gooden and Tyronn Lue did in Orlando last year...maybe better, but not by much. Oh, and like you said, the Lakers are in the West.</div> ok... <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Real Deal:</div><div class="quote_post">So, let's blame Kobe some more.</div> How about, let's not? How about, let's discuss the issue without any Kobe-bias? My posts might've sound like I'm attacking Kobe, but if you scroll up, I'm not. In fact, I didn't blame Kobe as much as defending KG. If you look at post #40, I started posting that in response to someone questioning KG as a ballhog.
