C's vs Sonics: Game thread

The C's visit Seattle tonight to rumble with the 17-3 Sonics.

Thus far, the West coast road trip isn't going all that well (although there have been a few bright spots) as we're 0-3 so far and going into the home of the best record in West/League.

The Celtics are only one of the 3 teams who have handed Seattle a loss this season and that was in Boston. Former Sonics guard Gary Payton will be making his only trip to Seattle this season and while I have to assume he will be greeted warmly, who knows?

Let's hope the C's get the team concept in thier heads for the whole game, keep the turnovers down and shoot better than they did last game. Seattle, ironically at least for this game, has one of the most deadly 3 pt offenses in the league and needless to say is playing hot right now.

Perimeter defense will undoubtedly be one of the keys to the game, although someone might want to keep an eye on Rashard Lewis in the paint.

Nothing would be more encouraging for this young and streaky team to get a win in a place where they probably shouldn't. It might help remove some of the remnants of the poor showing and loss to one of the worst teams in the NBA, the Golden State Warriors.

Here's hoping.

This topic can also be discussed in the Sonics forum: Sonics Forum Game Thread

 

GP will get a rousing reception, don't you worry about that.

Boston are a team I hate playing, and in recent times have had the wood over us. One of Seattle's big advantages is they can go with a big or small line-up and be equally effective, and Boston (when on their game) are one of the few teams that can do the same. They murdered us in Boston, but we're the last team standing in terms of an undefeated home record, after knocking off SA.

I don't like playing PP on the rebound after he only scored six points in Portland, either.

 

Sorry to you Boston fans, but this one is going to be a blowout.

 

Celtics are the ones shooting the lights out so far.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Air Pietrus:</div><div class="quote_post">Sorry to you Boston fans, but this one is going to be a blowout.</div>
hmmm, want to try that one again??
I'll be honest, I was at a friends birthday and only caught the 1st and 4th quarters. But it was nice to see that Pierce has rebounded from the flu and that the C's were able to play a full 48 minute game for the first time on this roadtrip.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Sorry to you Boston fans, but this one is going to be a blowout.</div>

As is usually the case, those with nothing but smack and <font color="DarkRed">little else to say, </font> are always COMPLETELY wrong.

For those who aren't jaded on the side of the bandwagon, the <font color="DarkGreen">Celtics won this one 98-84.</font>

Luckily for Air Pietrus, he wasn't completely wrong: 15 pts is normally considered a blow out.

For more on this game: " Road Wins Come in Unlikely Places"

 

Just think of how good the Celts would be if they played the Sonics 82 times a year?

We'll take our 17-4 record and forget that Boston was ever on our schedule.

 

You can do that all you like, as long as you remember that 2 of those losses are to the C's: one at home and one on the road.

With the C's, the East is easy to figure that they'll be in it. Question is, will the Sonics be able to maintain?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting hagrid:</div><div class="quote_post">You can do that all you like, as long as you remember that 2 of those losses are to the C's: one at home and one on the road.

With the C's, the East is easy to figure that they'll be in it. Question is, will the Sonics be able to maintain?</div>
The Supes' rebounded from the 1st loss to the Celtics rather nicely. I don't see why they can't do it again. I guess the Sonics were just so used to beating teams over .500 that the Celtics kind of took them by surprise.

 

Shard: I know the Sonics are good, but can they maintain this hectic pace? I mean, even as loyal Sonics fans, you guys have to be somewhat surprised at the big start, don't you?

17-4 is a great record this early in the season, but will they be able to keep up that winning pace, particularly in the brutally competitive West? It would seem they are due for a cooling down period.

With the Celtics, we've pretty much seen them already under the worst of times and they've remained close in all but 2 games(blown 7 4th quarter leads in our losses). Winning disguises a multitide of problems and thus far, the worst of times for the Sonics in this young season seems to be when they play the C's. I hope there aren't any major demons being disguised that are going to come up and bite you guys down the road.

I have my doubts about the Supes ability to maintain, but best of luck to them. I'd rather see them winning than the Lakers.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting hagrid:</div><div class="quote_post">You can do that all you like, as long as you remember that 2 of those losses are to the C's: one at home and one on the road.

With the C's, the East is easy to figure that they'll be in it. Question is, will the Sonics be able to maintain?</div>

Maintaining 81% winning percentage does seem unlikely however if we do hit a slide it's good to know that we have given ourselves some leg room to work with. We've guaranteed ourselves a legitimate opportunity to not only make the playoffs but also get home court advantage.

The C's remain under .500 and may have a difficult time making the playoffs in the depleted East. Your star player is getting frustrated and the city is starting to get accustomed to mediocrity. Instead of worrying about when the Supes are going to hit a losing streak I would concern myself more with the fact that your team is underachieving.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post">The C's remain under .500 and may have a difficult time making the playoffs in the depleted East. Your star player is getting frustrated and the city is starting to get accustomed to mediocrity. Instead of worrying about when the Supes are going to hit a losing streak I would concern myself more with the fact that your team is underachieving.</div>
Have you seen the East? The number one team in the Atlantic is a game under .500. You can be under that mark and easily make the playoffs in the East. This is a team with major player turnover. The season isn't even a quarter over - dont worry about the Celtics, they're gonna be just fine.
And I don't know what city your talking about accepting mediocrity, but it sure as hell ain't Boston. This is a city that currently holds the World Series Champs and the Super Bowl Champs. If anything, the expectations for the Celtics are increased in this city. Hell, the Celtics don't even hoist banners unless they say "World Champions."
For future reference, don't make statements you have no idea about... it makes you look ignorant.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CeltsMan54:</div><div class="quote_post">Have you seen the East? The number one team in the Atlantic is a game under .500. You can be under that mark and easily make the playoffs in the East. This is a team with major player turnover. The season isn't even a quarter over - dont worry about the Celtics, they're gonna be just fine.
And I don't know what city your talking about accepting mediocrity, but it sure as hell ain't Boston. This is a city that currently holds the World Series Champs and the Super Bowl Champs. If anything, the expectations for the Celtics are increased in this city. Hell, the Celtics don't even hoist banners unless they say "World Champions."
For future reference, don't make statements you have no idea about... it makes you look ignorant.</div>

I was going to leave this forum alone but since you want to explain to me how ignorant my comments are, I feel the need to put some holes into yours.

The fact thay you said the Celtics are going to be just fine w/ a 8-11 record right now shows that you are content w/ a team that plays at a .500 level. I can name eight teams right now that could easily position themselves ahead of the Celtics in the east. Basically every team in the east except the Bobcats, Bulls, Nets, and the Hawks could in fact post a better record than the Celtics come April.

You talk about the team is in transition. You guys have brought in Gary Payton, a perennial All-Star who still has some pop in his game, and three rookies. Everyone else on the team was on this team last year. Al Jefferson is a stud and Tony Allen will have a very long career in the NBA. If those positions of need were upgraded, why hasn't the level of play coincided w/ the upgrade in talent.

This is a basketball forum. I don't care what the Patriots and Red Sox have done. The city of Boston does not hold the Celtics to the same standards as they use to. Otherwise they would all be calling for Danny Ainge's head considering he dismantled a team that won in the playoffs for two consecutive years.

Keep rooting for the other teams in your division to lose so that your sub .500 team continues to put themselves in a position to make the playoffs. I'm glad that Celtic fans like yourself have so much confidence in an underachieving team and I'm glad that posters like you have confidence in your ability to argue on this website. Understand though that that same confidence isn't nearly as effective when it is combined w/ a lack of talent.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You talk about the team is in transition. You guys have brought in Gary Payton, a perennial All-Star who still has some pop in his game, and three rookies. Everyone else on the team was on this team last year. Al Jefferson is a stud and Tony Allen will have a very long career in the NBA. If those positions of need were upgraded, why hasn't the level of play coincided w/ the upgrade in talent</div> Well, you forgot to mention that the team is adjusting to a new coach and an entirely different style of basketball then they are used to. Also, IMO you can add Raef LaFrentz to the list of new additions to the team since he basically didn't play last year. It also wouldn't be fair to group Ricky Davis into the list of returning players because he arrived via a midseason trade and never really had time to get involved in any sort of orginization on the floor playing for Jim OB for a couple weeks, and then put into the hands of an interim coach who was basically a fan with really good seats.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">This is a basketball forum. I don't care what the Patriots and Red Sox have done. The city of Boston does not hold the Celtics to the same standards as they use to. Otherwise they would all be calling for Danny Ainge's head considering he dismantled a team that won in the playoffs for two consecutive years.
</div>See, this is something that you shouldn't have brought up because there's really no way for you to know what the general consensus of the Celtics is in and around the city of Boston unless you live here. The fact is, yes, the city does hold the C's to the same standards as the other teams. That's why basically nobody cares about them and hasn't since 2 years ago when they barely cared about them.

Unless something huge happens, then they won't even be mentioned in local broadcasts or on sports radio. Articles about them are buried in the papers, and are usually just game recaps, and short tidbits. This city talks more about the Red Sox offseason now then they do about the Celtics, and by a huge margin. The Celtics have been giving away tickets for free for christ's sake.

This city also hates Danny Ainge, well most of the people anyway. During Cedric Maxwell's jersey retirement, Ainge took the floor and when his name was announced, all you heard were loud boo's.

But why though? Why does Boston not care about their Celtics?

Because they aren't a winning team. Nobody in this city can sit there and watch a team lose anymore. We have the Pats and the Sox, winning teams who win championships. Why would they bother with a losing team? They aren't accustomed to it, and they can't handle it. That's why they choose to ignore it. If they pretend it isn't happening, than it's almost as good as it would be if it weren't. But, if the Celtics start winning, who is going to fill the stands? Yeah, that's right, those very same people who ignore them. Boston doesn't become accustomed to losing, they just ignore it, and jump back on when they start winning again.

 

You know, I was on your side to begin this, because I actually think the Sonics are disrespected. Everyone thinks they're playing over their heads and expects them to falter, but other teams that are doing much better than expected (ie, Orlando or Washington) are just considered greatly improved. It was your comment about Boston that annoyed me.

Well, Thrilla pretty much said it all for me, but since it was my comment to begin with, I'll respond anyways:
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post">The fact thay you said the Celtics are going to be just fine w/ a 8-11 record right now shows that you are content w/ a team that plays at a .500 level. I can name eight teams right now that could easily position themselves ahead of the Celtics in the east. Basically every team in the east except the Bobcats, Bulls, Nets, and the Hawks could in fact post a better record than the Celtics come April.</div>
Thats not what I said. I said that teams can make the playoffs hanging around .500 in the East. Thats a fact. I never said I a) expected or would be content with the C's to hang around there. They're fine being there FOR NOW. Because 20 games do not a season make. I'm sure you've played ball at some level, so you should know like any of us that it takes at least 15 games to get adjusted to playing with other guys. This isn't the YMCA where you can just throw it around, this is the NBA. When your adding that many new guys and changing the ways the guys who have been there have to play, the team takes a while to gel. And they will. Right now, I would lump the Celtics in with the Rockets - 2 teams trying to adjust to change. It's 80 plus games, they'll be over .500 by the time the playoffs come around.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You talk about the team is in transition. You guys have brought in Gary Payton, a perennial All-Star who still has some pop in his game, and three rookies. Everyone else on the team was on this team last year. Al Jefferson is a stud and Tony Allen will have a very long career in the NBA. If those positions of need were upgraded, why hasn't the level of play coincided w/ the upgrade in talent.</div>
No, everyone else WASN'T on the team least year. As Thrilla said, they had major roster rollover and tried to instrument an entirely new offsensive system. I also count Raef as a new player, since 17 games don't me anything. That means that there were 7 new players, not 4, and they are expecting all 3 rookies to be major bench players and Googs to be early off the bench once his back heals. And as I said above, thats going to take time for everyone to get used to playing with each other. If you had watched the team, you would see that the level of play has, in fact, gotten much better in the last couple of weeks and I expect it to improve even more.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">This is a basketball forum. I don't care what the Patriots and Red Sox have done. The city of Boston does not hold the Celtics to the same standards as they use to. Otherwise they would all be calling for Danny Ainge's head considering he dismantled a team that won in the playoffs for two consecutive years.</div>
This just tells me you have never worked in professional sports. It's all about competing with not only your own league, but every team in your city. If your in a place with this many successful teams, you have to compete for pages and time on sports talk radio. As Thrilla said: it's championship or nothing in Boston.
Now, if you watched the Celtics more than the 2 games when they face Seattle, you would know that after the Eastern Conference finals, the team was quietly put up for sale and the order was handed down to trim payroll and avoid the luxury tax, which brought us Vin Baker, which killed the team. The Celtics had to move Antoine, because the team had gone as far as the duo of Pierce and Walker could take them and had no other way to improve. Danny got what he felt was the best deal for Antoine. And just to clarify, Danny Ainge barely survived the first 6 months of his job, thats how much people were calling for his head. You'd know that if you lived here. Even now, despite what is begining to look like an amazing 2004 draft, people are still questioning his every move. There are writers here who will NEVER give Danny any credit because of the Antoine trade. And to be honest, this was the comment you made that I truly disagreed with. You're not here, so you don't know. I wouldn't presume to talk about how Atlanta feels about the Hawks, cause I'm not there. Thats what makes it ignorance.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 44Thrilla:</div><div class="quote_post">Unless something huge happens, then they won't even be mentioned in local broadcasts or on sports radio.</div>
Thats not true... they get mentioned when its a slow news day as well.

 

I want to backtrack this convo a little because I don't feel everything 44 said about Boston fans is true.

Yes, the media in Boston has 2 championship teams to report on and in general, the C's don't get front page. However, the papers usually have pieces in them daily.

Yes, the fleet doesn't enjoy the same ticket sales success that the Gahden' used to. I don't really get the whole free ticket comment though, as that's part of a general "corporate America's" media and public relations plan everywhere. Maybe you can expound on that one, please?

There are people, even in the City of Boston who don't pay attention to the C's unless they are winning. That makes me sad to a certain point, but when I remember that I don't consider those people "real fans" anyways, it lessens the blow.

Real fans stick by thier teams through thick and thin, endure the hard times when you just want to throw your beer bottle through the TV multiple times a game because you've had to endure a multitude of bonehead plays, etc.

The folks who only show up for the celebration only get half the joy of what the occasion really means to the rest of us.

It may not be enough to fill the Fleet nightly (mostly because alot of us don't live in Boston), but there's still legions of loyal Celtic Die-hards who eat and sleep the C's. Even when miracles like the Red Sox winning the championship was going on, I was still thinking about the Celtics everyday, t hey just shared my attention instead of wholely consumed it. The traffic on the blog daily exemplifies this point.

Maybe I misunderstood your premise and that you were mostly just talking about the local folks in Boston who care less, but there are still plenty of fans who bleedgreen every day of thier lives. Those of us who aren't fairweather fans, won't even accept mediocrity either.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting hagrid:</div><div class="quote_post">Yes, the fleet doesn't enjoy the same ticket sales success that the Gahden' used to. I don't really get the whole free ticket comment though, as that's part of a general "corporate America's" media and public relations plan everywhere. Maybe you can expound on that one, please?</div>
A couple weeks ago, the Celtics gave away 4,000 free tickets to a game (I believe it was the game against Milwaukee). It wasn't that the team gave tickets to a company to give away, the Celtics themselves did. And there was no contest, there was no answering of questions, it was just show up and have a ticket. It was kept pretty low-key since the Celtics didn't want to come off as desperate, but they just wanted to fill the seats and hope to get some concession money.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Maybe I misunderstood your premise and that you were mostly just talking about the local folks in Boston who care less, but there are still plenty of fans who bleedgreen every day of thier lives. Those of us who aren't fairweather fans, won't even accept mediocrity either.</div>
Well, I can't speak for Thrilla, but thats the point that I was trying to make to Iron Shiek when he said the city is starting to get accustomed to mediocrity. The diehards will never accept anything less than a championship and even the fairweather fans won't either because they're so accustomed to competing for championships the last couple years.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Yes, the media in Boston has 2 championship teams to report on and in general, the C's don't get front page. However, the papers usually have pieces in them daily.</div>Yeah, I said that it was there, but there's no comparison to the level/amount of coverage that the Sox/Pats get. I've heard sports talk radio hosts on WEEI freely admit that they cannot name more than 4 players on the Celtics. The papers have just enough staff allocated to cover the Celtics to get us "real fans" by. Also, forget about the Providence Journal, they've gone days without a story on the Celtics. The GP trade earned itself an entire paragraph if I remember correctly.

As for your other questions, Celtsman hadled them nicely. Although, I'd like to add that The Celtics are having another ticket giveaway for the upcoming Jazz game, I believe.

But, yeah, I do agree that there are still plenty of us who bleed green, but we are in the minority around here. Anybody I ever talk to (except on here, of course) finds it hard to believe that I watch every Celtics game all year long.