With our Sonics exceeding everyone's expectations right now the trade value of several of our impending free agents are at an all time high. Ray Allen is now viewed as one of the top players in the league when before the season he was just viewed as one of the top shooting guards in the league. His value right now is the highest its ever been in his career which makes him a top price free agent following this season (I'm sure a few teams would even consider giving him somewhere close to a maximum contract). Antonio Daniels came to Seattle at a bargain price and he has flourished in his role off of the bench at both guard spots. The addition of Murray will definitely hurt his minutes and numbers but he has proven to be a top notch reserve this year and his asking price will be much higher than what the Sonics signed him for two seasons ago. He'll definitely exercise his option for free agency this summer. Vlad Radmanovic is an early candidate for Sixth Man of the Year. He's shown the ability to consistently make threes and he is taking the ball to the basket with a reckless abandon. His stock is at an all time high as well and b/c of his age he could be inked in a long term deal. Are the Sonics willing to match any deal that Vlad would receive, especially considering that he may always be a backup to Rashard? Reggie Evans is proving that he can compete on the backboards with the best of them. Although his numbers don't indicate it, he's also improved his offense dramatically from last season. He isn't a high price free agent but he's shown this year that he is capable of making quality contributions at the NBA level. Jerome James was rumored to be buried at the end of the bench this season but in limited minutes he's proven to be a real defensive force. His ability to match up with the better big man in the league has been a huge bonus for the Supes. He's getting back to blocking shots and has been big on the offensive end with good screening and timely buckets. B/c of the lack of quality big men in the league, he may end up with a contract that will pay him more than what he is earning now (see Adonal Foyle/Etan Thomas). Ronald Murray and Vitaly Potapenko are the other free agents and they haven't been able to improve their market value b/c of their injuries. The current collective bargaining agreement expires at the end of the summer. The new agreement could limit how much veteran players can make and this would effect every one of our free agents. The luxury tax implications could force teams to low ball all of the 2005 free agents. Essentially we could lose most of our key components to our team next year and get nothing in return. Even though our team is playing exceptionally well, in essence this could just be an audition for these free agents to play for another team next year. Do we risk putting all of chips on the table for this year with the chance of us losing out for many years to come? Or do we make a move (or sign one of our free agents) to at least guarantee that we can keep a quality player under contract for years to come. Is Ray's asking price too high? These are some very tough decisions for Rick Sund (who is also in his last year) to ponder. I don't want to mess up a good thing but at the same time I don't want to turn into the Charlotte Bobcats next year either. Do we make a trade or do we stand pat w/ the hopes that our free agents will stay at reasonable prices? Who/what are our priorities?
Vlad Radmanovic is the most interesting one for mine, even moreso than Ray Allen. He is a 6'11 forward who can shoot it like hell, he's athletic, he can rebound and play D if he's motivated, and he creates more mismatches than IMO anyone on our roster. It's no coincedence that when Vlad fires, we fire. Unless something goes horribly wrong between now and the end of the season, someone will offer him something in the vicinity of 50-60 million. He is a small forward, and Rashard is having an All-Star season, so do we match that much just to keep our strong bench intact?
Unfortunately I just read the Sonics have lost an average of 10 million/yr the last 5 yrs and Schultz has been strangely quite during the first part of this season. During the Storm run last year he was saying on TV and in interviews how great a product it was, how great it is for Seattle to have championship caliber team and people need to come out and support them. I've heard nothing from Howard/Wally on Sund and Nate, much less our potential free agents and next years team.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Roland Hood:</div><div class="quote_post">I've heard nothing from Howard/Wally on Sund and Nate, much less our potential free agents and next years team.</div> Both Nate and Rick have said they're not discussing their contracts until after the season, period. And the general rule of the organization is to not negotiate that stuff until the offseason for everybody.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Casual:</div><div class="quote_post">Both Nate and Rick have said they're not discussing their contracts until after the season, period. And the general rule of the organization is to not negotiate that stuff until the offseason for everybody.</div> Let's just hope that when/if we do decide to make a pitch to the free agents w/in our organization that they haven't already decided to accept an offer to provide their services elsewhere. This baby elephant in the room will continue to grow as the season progresses.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Reggie Evans is proving that he can compete on the backboards with the best of them. Although his numbers don't indicate it, he's also improved his offense dramatically from last season. He isn't a high price free agent but he's shown this year that he is capable of making quality contributions at the NBA level.</div> Evans still has a lot of growing up to do in a lot of people's minds after being suspended and causing problems at Iowa (and his comments about Gasol playing like a girl), but you have to believe that his trade value is really high. His stats aren't the best in the league, but he plays just like Randolph and Boozer. He's got to be one of the twenty best rebounders in the NBA. I'm sure they could get a lot for him. If I were in a position to make trades on my hometown team (Grizzlies), then I'd give up a solid player like Earl Watson or Stromile Swift for Reggie Evans.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Casual:</div><div class="quote_post">Both Nate and Rick have said they're not discussing their contracts until after the season, period. And the general rule of the organization is to not negotiate that stuff until the offseason for everybody.</div> Publicly both Nate and Sund have said they're fine with it but I can't fully believe that, especially Nate who is Mr. Sonic. He's almost like Edgar for the M's. Frankly speaking, nowadays players come and go and you try to keep your core - I thought I heard Sund say Rashard, Ridnour, Vlade and maybe Collison. So I think they'll do what it takes to keep them. Obviously you'd like Ray Allen to be considered part of that but who knows what they'll do and if they'll offer him a max contract. I will say that if they let Ray Allen go and don't replace him with a similar caliber player that the Sonics are an average team and it's been shown via the M's, UW, Seahawks et al that Seattle won't support a loser. Conversely if the team shows it's trying to win and plays an entertaining brand of ball they'll come out in droves.
I think it's fair to say that management over the past few seasons have been stubborn about making any drastic moves etc, preferring to work with what we have in the confidence that it will pay off. And currently, they are being proven right, with the individual talents of this team finally coming together into a team structure. At the moment, it's hard to see how we couldn't pay Ray Allen, because he and Rashard are still the two cornerstones. Unfortunately there are two issues. One I liken to Steve Nash; the big deal they gave him looks great right now, but how will it look three or four seasons down the track? You're not just paying these guys for the season they've had, you're paying them to perform for the next four seasons too. The other sticking point is that Ray wants his offer before the All-Star break, and if we leave it until after the season he's gone. Does this change now that we're having success? Do we re-sign him on regular season form or call his bluff and wait and see how successful this team really can be? Lots of questions management has to answer.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">Evans still has a lot of growing up to do in a lot of people's minds after being suspended and causing problems at Iowa (and his comments about Gasol playing like a girl), but you have to believe that his trade value is really high. His stats aren't the best in the league, but he plays just like Randolph and Boozer. He's got to be one of the twenty best rebounders in the NBA. I'm sure they could get a lot for him. If I were in a position to make trades on my hometown team (Grizzlies), then I'd give up a solid player like Earl Watson or Stromile Swift for Reggie Evans.</div> The Evans that you remembered at Iowa is not the Evans that plays in the NBA. If someone were foolish enough to offer some legitimate talent straight up for Evans than I would personally mail them a Santa Claus costume. Evans has improved his value thus far this season but to say that he plays like Randolph and Boozer is ridiculous. He fills a need for us b/c he is physical, can rebound, and can get under the skin of our opponents. That being said I would take any power forward in the league who gets over 10 minutes a game over him.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post">That being said I would take any power forward in the league who gets over 10 minutes a game over him.</div> Seattle trades: PF Reggie Evans (5.5 ppg, 8.7 rpg, 0.5 apg in 24.3 minutes) Seattle receives: PF Christian Laettner (7.1 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 0.8 apg in 16.5 minutes) Change in team outlook: +1.6 ppg, -5.3 rpg, and +0.3 apg. Miami trades: PF Christian Laettner (7.1 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 0.8 apg in 16.5 minutes) Miami receives: PF Reggie Evans (5.5 ppg, 8.7 rpg, 0.5 apg in 24.3 minutes) Change in team outlook: -1.6 ppg, +5.3 rpg, and -0.3 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> That being said I would take any power forward in the league who gets over 10 minutes a game over him.</div> I think that is a very dumb thing to say. he lacks offensive game but his defence and his rebounding are top notch. I think he is one of the most underrated players in NBA.
I like what Reggie brings to the table too, his offense is limited, but he is a very underrated defender, and his rebounding and physical play has been IMO as important as Fortson's, if not moreso. However I can see the other side of the argument. If you were offered someone with the talent and potential of a Stro Swift, it would be extremely difficult to turn it down.
i would like to see vladimir and peja play in the nba together so far theyve doing good in the olympics, FIBA, etc.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Supersonic:</div><div class="quote_post"> However I can see the other side of the argument. If you were offered someone with the talent and potential of a Stro Swift, it would be extremely difficult to turn it down.</div> I agree, but this "10 minutes" argument is a dumb as it gets. And another point is that Evans is a perfect fit for Sonics because he isn't offensive minded guy and he won't be unhappy when he doesn't score every night 10+ points. There have been written many times that one key of the sonics ongoing success is that guys accept their roles and everyone knows what they have to do and Evan accept his role as defensive banger and rebounder. That mentality is very rare in NBA these days - every player wants to score but nobody wants to play defence. Luckily we have 3 guys who will happily rebound, set screens and defend other teams all-star big guys.
Have I made a new enemy in this forum? For the record I think that Reggie Evans has been playing well for the Sonics so far this year. This team is a great fit for him. That being said, I don't think just b/c someone is playing well in a system that plays to his strength that they are a good player. Put Reggie Evans on almost any other team in the league and they will be contemplating whether or not he should even get 10 minutes. Tell me how many other starting power forwards are averaging less than six points per game and shoot as low a field goal and free throw percentage as he does. How many of those guys complain after every call too? Relax, Semmi. I guarantee that when you improve your quality of your posts that they will be taken more seriously. That would be a great New Year's resolution. Happy holidays, fam. Continue to strive to contribute to the best basketball message board that I know of.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post">Have I made a new enemy in this forum? For the record I think that Reggie Evans has been playing well for the Sonics so far this year. This team is a great fit for him. That being said, I don't think just b/c someone is playing well in a system that plays to his strength that they are a good player. Put Reggie Evans on almost any other team in the league and they will be contemplating whether or not he should even get 10 minutes. Tell me how many other starting power forwards are averaging less than six points per game and shoot as low a field goal and free throw percentage as he does. How many of those guys complain after every call too? Relax, Semmi. I guarantee that when you improve your quality of your posts that they will be taken more seriously. That would be a great New Year's resolution. Happy holidays, fam. Continue to strive to contribute to the best basketball message board that I know of.</div> "quality of my posts"? - if you think that my english is bad then you're right but I think you understand what I'm trying to say here. Basketball isn't all about scoring and FG %'s. Reggie does his thing - rebounds and defends - and he is good at that. Fortson was a non-factor last year with Dallas, now in Seattle he is superb. Coach have to demand certain things from players - Reggie is our defender - nobody is asking him to score. Now I will write down some PF's who are averaging about 10 minutes per game. You tell me honestly are you willing to trade Reggie away for one of them? Jelani McCoy 8.8 MPG Kevin Willis 13,4 MPG Tom Gugliotta 11.5 MPG Walter McCarty 12.6 MPG Jamal Sampson 13.3 MPG Anderson Varejao 9.5 MPG This list continues. So I don't think that you want to have ANY PF who gets over 10 MPG over Reggie. And IMO last thing we want to do is a trade at this point. But Allen situation must be cleared someway - give him a contract and trade Murray or let Allen go and concentrate on Flip.
You're forgetting the might of Lonny Baxter there Sem, who is ticking along ninely at nine minutes per.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Semmi:</div><div class="quote_post"> Now I will write down some PF's who are averaging about 10 minutes per game. You tell me honestly are you willing to trade Reggie away for one of them? Jelani McCoy 8.8 MPG Kevin Willis 13,4 MPG Tom Gugliotta 11.5 MPG Walter McCarty 12.6 MPG Jamal Sampson 13.3 MPG Anderson Varejao 9.5 MPG </div> I'm shocked you went through the hassel of putting together that list. I was originally exaggerating when I said I'd take any power forward in the league that averaged more than 10 minutes a game over him but even now looking at your list I don't think that that statement is totally outrageous. Are you willing to tell me that you would be a fan of Reggie playing starters minutes if we weren't winning? Your opinion of him may have even changed if he played for Tartu Rock. Bottom line is that I don't like Reggie Evans. Last year in extended minutes he didn't even prove that he could be a consistent rebounder. This year he has and I'll give him credit for that. He's improved to the point where I think that teams would actually give up something to get him. He just doesn't fit my profile of a prototypical power forward. I shouldn't get nervous when he gets the ball in a scoring position. I shouldn't be suspicious when I hear that someone from our team got hurt in practice. I shouldn't have to see this face every time a call (or non call) is made on him. In my opinion Danny Fortson is the catalyst of our front line and his toughness has elevated the play of the other post players. Evans is a hard working, tough guy who has beaten the odds. I doubt, however, that you can find statistics that will disprove that he is still probably the worst starting power forward in the league.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post"> Are you willing to tell me that you would be a fan of Reggie playing starters minutes if we weren't winning? Your opinion of him may have even changed if he played for Tartu Rock.</div> But we ARE winning right now and Evans is our leading rebounder. When we start to lose then it's another story. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post"> He just doesn't fit my profile of a prototypical power forward. I shouldn't get nervous when he gets the ball in a scoring position. I shouldn't be suspicious when I hear that someone from our team got hurt in practice. I shouldn't have to see this face every time a call (or non call) is made on him. </div> He isn't prtotypical PF that's for sure. So isn't Fortson. In Sonics team we have at least 2 scorers on the floor at any given time who can shoot the lights out so we don't need typical PF but we need rebounder who can provide us a second opportunity with offensive rebs. It is obvious that we can't have an all-star PF who can score and rebound but at least Reggie gives us 100% on the boards. And this statment about him whining when he is called a foul....many players do that and how is that related with his playing skills? As long as it won't affect his game it is irrelevant how his face looks like after the foul call. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post"> In my opinion Danny Fortson is the catalyst of our front line and his toughness has elevated the play of the other post players. Evans is a hard working, tough guy who has beaten the odds. I doubt, however, that you can find statistics that will disprove that he is still probably the worst starting power forward in the league.</div> It is sad that we can't measure individual defence or toughness or effort that he gives every night and in every practice with any statistical category. Basketball ain't only stats. You americans are stats freeks. All in all I'm not saying that Reggie is our long term PF. Far from it. But right here and right now he deserves his starting job and like Sonics overall record shows he is playing well. Merry Christmas! BTW : I got my Allen yersey and Sonics warm uo jacket and now I'm happy so go Sonics! And Iron Shiek : don't get mad on me! I just expressing my opinion. And sorry for my english - It's not my main language! And from where do you know about Tartu Rock??
I'm all for trying to win now and I think that this team has the opportunity to beat any team in the west not named San Antonio. But, I'd also like to go into July w/ more than 5 players under contract, and that certainly won't happen now that the trade deadline has passed. Does Rick Sund want to return as general manager of the Sonics? He will have the toughest job next year b/c he is going to have to not only gauge all our impending free agents market value and interest from other teams but he is also going to have to decide who is worth keeping and who is worth throwing money at in the free agent market. He's also going to hope to get lucky in the late rounds of the draft (John Reimold anyone???). He might be on his way out the door for another job, considering that he has proven himself capable this season. Savor this season Sonics fans. Go to as many games as you can so that you can contribute to the Sonics reaching their financial goals. Next year we may have new ownership and considering our offseason outlook this team may have to forfeit the season.
