<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Bba11er08:</div><div class="quote_post">How can kobe be trailing McGrady in the all-star ballots!! He is the better player. I am so angry about this. They should put the best players as starters in the all-star game. Alot of haters out there cuz of shaq/malone & kobe stuff. McGrady ---------- Kobe PPG:23.3 ---------- PPG:28.4 RPG:6.10 ---------- RPG:7.10 APG:5.6 ----------- APG:7.1 EFF:+21.56 ------- EFF:+25.37 Also the main reason kobe is lossing is because all of Yao Mings fans are voting for McGrady also, thats alot of votes from China.</div> You're forgetting something. McGrady's defense sucks. Kobe's defense is godlike compared to McGrady's... every game I watched last year, Mcgrady would just stand there and give up and care less if guys got wide open lay ups on him. I mean, okay, yeah maybe its a little better this year then last year? He has poor attittude, and he's shown it. Sides, McGrady's 13 points in 35 seconds was the only amazing clutch moment he's ever had. Kobe's list is pathetically long, his list of clutch moments is more than of McGrady's accomplishments alone. All of his Trail Blazer game-winners, the game winner against Denver after attending court.. I could go on, but the list has already been written. (Forgot who, and what thread. But he missed a few I believe, such as Denver. Gee it's hard to remember every single major clutch moment of Kobe's isn't it?) Haha...McGrady better than Kobe? Edit: Oh... and Kobe's shooting? Check this out: Kobe is in the same situation as Tracy was last year, correct? But this year Kobe is criticised for his poor shooting. Don't get me wrong, i've been one of his strongest criticisers so far. Kobe Bryant - current field goal percentage: 40% Tracy McGrady - current field goal percentage: 41.4% Last year: Kobe Bryant: 43.8% Tracy McGrady: 41.7% Hell, McGrady shot better last year then he is now. What is sad is that he wasn't criticised for his poor shooting last year when it is 1.6 friggin' percent better. Compare McGrady's 41.7% shooting to Kobe's 40% right now. That's like... half a point every twenty shots. Not to mention, Kobe's field goal percentage is going up. He went through a slump that every player goes through at times. Kobe shot better than McGrady last year, but noone said anything because "Kobe had Shaq". <font color="Red"><font size="1">Content edited. Please watch the language. -Brandon</font></font>
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting trenchteam:</div><div class="quote_post">Dont matter. Kobe will make the all star game... Hopefully we get to see him posterize shaq...hehe</div> Yea as long as Kobe gets to go to the All-Star game I think he will take over and he will be the person on the court at the end of the game taking that last shot if necessary.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Bba11er08:</div><div class="quote_post">How can kobe be trailing McGrady in the all-star ballots!! He is the better player. I am so angry about this. They should put the best players as starters in the all-star game. Alot of haters out there cuz of shaq/malone & kobe stuff. McGrady ---------- Kobe PPG:23.3 ---------- PPG:28.4 RPG:6.10 ---------- RPG:7.10 APG:5.6 ----------- APG:7.1 EFF:+21.56 ------- EFF:+25.37 Also the main reason kobe is lossing is because all of Yao Mings fans are voting for McGrady also, thats alot of votes from China.</div> you didnt put in the fg%, or the TO's. hell i can make hoffa look better than shaq if i limit the list to PF's statiscally kobe's better than mcgrady in pts, assits and rebounds, but lacks in steals, fg% and turnovers. Also Mcgrady's team plays a different type of offense, a very slow one that utilizes Yao. Which means there are overall less points scored, less touches to go around and less opportunities for Mcgrady to get the assist. Also the lakers arent exactly a great rebounding team, while the rockets arent either, Mcgrady has to share with Yao, Kobe share's with Brian Grant........ Its not that lobsided a scenerio, you guys need to chill. Kobe is not god
I distinctly remember Rocket fans nearly calling McGrady a god, when he scored 13 points in less than a minute. Troy Hudson was going off last week in a Minnesota game...where he had around 13 in a minute or two. Reggie Miller scored the quickest 6 points I've ever seen against the Knicks. Now, when McGrady does these feats more than once in his lifetime, maybe I'll consider it great. What he did was spectacular...but when someone turns to you and says to do it again, if you can't...it's not great. In other words, I've seen better things from not-so-great players...but you didn't see them leading All-Star guards, let alone even in the All-Star game. When your team goes from an easy 7th seed playoff berth last season, to looking less than mediocre and losing two straight (the only two) against an expansion team, I don't see much room for improvement. Place the blame on Yao, JVG, Jackson, Sura, Ward, Taylor, Howard, Lue, Nachbar, Padgett, etc...but let's not be blind to the man that gave up on his own team last season because they couldn't win 22 games. Facts are...Kobe is criticized because the Lakers do bad. He's called a bad team player, selfish, etc...but, it's ironic how McGrady still gets a significantly large amount of votes, yet the Rockets aren't even breaking .500 yet...even with (gasp) a big man. Talk about stats? Okay...McGrady shoots at 41% and Kobe at 40%...big deal. Kobe's higher free throw and three point shooting makes up for the 1%. Kobe wins in rebounds and assists...yet, Lamar has more boards than Yao. In fact, the Lakers are a better rebounding team than the Rockets. Now, Kobe has more turnovers...since he is running the point in LA. Now, for steals...Kobe makes up with blocks. So, your turn to prove all of that wrong.
How about this look at Kobe's Career High and Tracy's Career high and we will see who is the better player
People gotta just face it and admit that kobe is better then T-Mac just cuz u dont like kobe dont mean hes good. Kobe= All-Defensive Team
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting YugoRocketsfan:</div><div class="quote_post">How about this look at Kobe's Career High and Tracy's Career high and we will see who is the better player</div> common this maybe the most stupid argument i have seen for a while. i dont watch when tmac get his carrer high. and even kobe. but as i remeber a against denver and his running a streak of 40 points for consecutive game. the game was pretty much decided in the 3rd quarter and he scored more or less 50 point . and i think he didnt play or play a little in the fourth if not he will break his previous career high and even MJ career high as the commentators said. as i remember he got 52 points. and he done that with a shaq on line-up impressive??? nah just a natural kobe you saw in that game...( lakers and kobe fans try help me with this if you remember it) About the all-star if you looked at the vote results, Bryant was no.2 good for a starting position for the west.i'l be pissed if i see kboe at no. 3 which means he wont start. common guys at least bryant will start as they said he will take over at the game. and pls stop about the stats it a popularity contest and which player they want to see. let us all vote kobe everyday. they vote tmac because they love his dunking, his offensive game.. he vote him coz of Yao (which also happen to Francsi when Stevee was a rockets.) he's vote came from his orlando or even toronto fans but we dont know. and honestly i voted for t-mac to start with kobe in west all-star. that will be a great backcourt combinations as vote are versatile to play point and off-guard. im just hoping west won and kobe win the all-star mvp trophy again..
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 02civic:</div><div class="quote_post">you didnt put in the fg%, or the TO's. hell i can make hoffa look better than shaq if i limit the list to PF's statiscally kobe's better than mcgrady in pts, assits and rebounds, but lacks in steals, fg% and turnovers. Also Mcgrady's team plays a different type of offense, a very slow one that utilizes Yao. Which means there are overall less points scored, less touches to go around and less opportunities for Mcgrady to get the assist. Also the lakers arent exactly a great rebounding team, while the rockets arent either, Mcgrady has to share with Yao, Kobe share's with Brian Grant........ Its not that lobsided a scenerio, you guys need to chill. Kobe is not god</div> Your right Kobe is not god.....but he is better than Mcgrady. Kobe has had more clutch plays...he has more rings...his team has a better record(without a garentee'd 2nd scoring option)....has better stats....plays better defense...in one season doing what Mcgrady could not get done Orlando(leading a team into a championship) now look...Mcgrady is a good player...he is a superstar...but saying he is better than Kobe is stupid. KK Civac answer this question straight up...don't say but/or/and or anything just yes or no: If Kobe was put in Mcgrady situation....after 30 games into the season....if Kobe is on the team with Yao....are they just hitting .500....I mean lets say Houstan traded Francis/Mobley to L.A. for Kobe instead of Mcgrady....is this Houstan team better if Kobe was on the team.....would the Houstan team have a better record? Would they be a better team in the eyes of critics/fans/players? Everyone go ahead and answer this question and hey we all we than no who is the better player.
<strike>You shouldnt call Kobe better than T-mac, cause t-mac never raped a girl, and there is lots of laker hating websites</strike> <font size="1"><font color="Red">Unnecessary comment. Defend McGrady all you want, but keep that issue out of the forums. -Brandon</font></font>
What does what you do off-court effect what you do on.....How does Kobe having haters obviously like you effect him being better than TMac? It doesn't See this is one of those: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">don't say but/or/and or anything just yes or no:</div> Answer my question....if you can't answer it truthfully you are obviously answering by saying these buts or he has haters which is obvious.......it is answering the question and your giving me nothing but joy. <font size="1"><font color="Red">Content edited. -Brandon</font></font>
Kobe Bryant's fans can say he is better than T-mac , T-mac fans say he is better than kobe and whats to be mad about kobe not having more votes than t-mac anyways lots of people hate kobe for talkin stuff to shaq and thats why he left LA, <font size="1"><font color="Red">Link removed. Last warning...I'm not telling you again. Keep the issue off the forums. -Brandon</font></font>
Well ive talked to alot of people that dont like kobe they still agree that kobe is better. And anyone that really knows and watches alot of Nba would know that. So its obvious let this post rest...I think we all know here whos the best..
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Billa_Bong:</div><div class="quote_post">Your right Kobe is not god.....but he is better than Mcgrady.</div> My point was merely that the difference between the two players was not large enough to get responses such as "wtf, mcgrady over kobe is a fvcking joke....I wont watch the all star game if it happens". Kobe is better than Mcgrady stat wise. But as far as working with others, kobe has a rocky past. So if i was a GM, I'd grab Mcgrady first if i had any intentions of being a serious player for the title. Cause it takes more than 1 star, and kobe wont allow that. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Billa_Bong:</div><div class="quote_post"> Kobe has had more clutch plays...</div> *maybe* but consider... 1)You remember Kobe cluth plays cause you are a fan, and watch him more 2)He's always got more attention from the media, so they show it more 3)He's been in better situations to be close in close, important games 4)With Shaq it's been a little easier for him to get free/open for the big bucket <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Billa_Bong:</div><div class="quote_post">he has more rings...</div> That shouldnt even be a consideration. T-mac wasnt given the luxury of Shaq, or of the Laker organization which puts winning teams out alot more than Toronto and Orlando do. No doubt in my mind if at the beginning of last season, if Kobe was traded for T-Mac, the Lakers would of been a better unit coexisting and they would of sweep the playoffs. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Billa_Bong:</div><div class="quote_post">his team has a better record(without a garentee'd 2nd scoring option)....</div> Lamar Odom is a damn good player, I'd say he's pretty garentee'd. Not as important as Yao, no. But still. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Billa_Bong:</div><div class="quote_post">has better stats....</div> in pts, rebounds, assists, blocks, ft%, 3% but worse in steals, fg%, turnovers, steals (note: not a great example since Vangundy's system screws with stats) <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Billa_Bong:</div><div class="quote_post">plays better defense...</div> Up to opinion. In my opinion and the opinion of his former coach, Bryant is an overrated defender. He works hard, but makes poor decisions. I dont think either are great defenders, but no doubt if Mcgrady committed himself to working hard he'd be better at D. He was pretty damn good in his first few years with Toronto. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Billa_Bong:</div><div class="quote_post">in one season doing what Mcgrady could not get done Orlando(leading a team into a championship)</div> Are you comparing the Lakers to last years Magic? Have you seen the two lineups. Jordan in his prime, might of been able to get them to the playoffs in an 8th seed, but thats it. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Billa_Bong:</div><div class="quote_post"> now look...Mcgrady is a good player...he is a superstar...but saying he is better than Kobe is stupid. </div> dont think i ever said he was better but if i did, i feel that if you look at it from an angle also including his personality, Mcgrady is better for the team with many pieces. Bryant just wants to be the team. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Billa_Bong:</div><div class="quote_post"> KK Civac answer this question straight up...don't say but/or/and or anything just yes or no: If Kobe was put in Mcgrady situation....after 30 games into the season....if Kobe is on the team with Yao....are they just hitting .500....I mean lets say Houstan traded Francis/Mobley to L.A. for Kobe instead of Mcgrady....is this Houstan team better if Kobe was on the team.....would the Houstan team have a better record? Would they be a better team in the eyes of critics/fans/players?</div> No. I doubt Bryant would function well with Yao. And i KNOW that Bryant would not enjoy playing Vangundy's system. Then after a while, when they cant coexist anymore cause of Kobe's attitude they'll drop alot of games and playoff series that they should of won. But then again they might, they could play a 1-2 game alot better than Kobe can now, and the Houston role players might benefit from Kobe's hustle. Assuming of course that my first answer were to prove incorrect. I also think though, that the current laker team and certainly the laker team of a year ago would do/ of done better with T-mac rather than Kobe. You cant use situations like that to see if someones better. They are to different scenerios with there own variables. Some players flourish when others flounder, but then a there's a switch of teams and the fortunes reverse. Kobe is a good player, T-Mac is a good player. I'm not going to say who is better, only that i would prefer T-Mac on my team for personality reasons. And thats not saying much, cause T-Mac's bailed on 2 teams now
Houston's slowed down offense has effected T-mac's stats, he is on a team where he has to share the ball with a center and doesn't dominate the ball as much as Kobe. Who the way he is going will break the record for most turnovers in a season. When he's allowed to play his game, Mcgrady is a better scorer and shooter, you take away Kobe's clutch abilty and there isn't much of a difference between the two. The people who are saying Kobe is much better and people who are laughing when others say Mcgrady is better It's just plain arrogant. There isn't much difference between the two If at all. Groupies love to think otherwise.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 02civic:</div><div class="quote_post">My point was merely that the difference between the two players was not large enough to get responses such as "wtf, mcgrady over kobe is a fvcking joke....I wont watch the all star game if it happens". Kobe is better than Mcgrady stat wise. But as far as working with others, kobe has a rocky past. So if i was a GM, I'd grab Mcgrady first if i had any intentions of being a serious player for the title. Cause it takes more than 1 star, and kobe wont allow that.</div> Kobe will play with another star...he just wants equal share in respect and credit dished out...Phil Jackson has even said that...I heard him with my own ears.....if you want to talk about not playing with another star you should look at the Toronto situation....McGrady/Carter Duo cud have been the most exciting duo ever seen in the NBA and the highest scoring pair.....He gave that up....so your thing about how he is such a great teammate to me is a huge joke. Also I dislike the All-Star games either way...I don't find them entertainning...there boring and it is just scoring going back and fourth...I can watch the highlights. I didn't even watch it when it was in L.A. last year. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> *maybe* but consider... 1)You remember Kobe cluth plays cause you are a fan, and watch him more 2)He's always got more attention from the media, so they show it more 3)He's been in better situations to be close in close, important games 4)With Shaq it's been a little easier for him to get free/open for the big bucket </div> 1)You have the be shitten me.....I just remember more of his plays...It is a fact Kobe has ten times the amount of clutch threes and plays in the book. 2)Hmm....he does get more attention...probably because he does make those big shots which when you make them will make the news...it is not like they have some special storage room of McGrady clutch plays that are hidden away locked chained up and there only showing Kobes'. 3)I wonder why.....maybe because I don't know he seems to always have beeter teams. 4)Look at it this way....Shaq is not making the clutch shot....he is not. And for him to make a shot with a decent defender he needs at least 5 seconds like on the clock and thats if he works fast. Any of his other moves take a long time. You put your big man on Shaq and if you ball goes into his hand YOU FOUL HIM. When there is a clutch play Shaq doesn't mean sqaut why...free throws...they can foul him...Kobe has tons of pressure when making all those shots for example thats why Fisher took the .04 last year because you knew they were double teaming him. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> That shouldnt even be a consideration. T-mac wasnt given the luxury of Shaq, or of the Laker organization which puts winning teams out alot more than Toronto and Orlando do. No doubt in my mind if at the beginning of last season, if Kobe was traded for T-Mac, the Lakers would of been a better unit coexisting and they would of sweep the playoffs. </div> He was given the luxury of Vinsanity and they could have in a weak east could have gone to the finals. Are you serious? TMac hates slow offense...he hates the 1/2 court slow paced stuff which was the Lakers offense last year. We obviously see he dislikes the 1/2 court offense from this years and he is more of the main offense than Yao...could you imagine him being the 2nd scoring option to Shaq...he would be so unhappy and do so bad it would pathetic. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Lamar Odom is a damn good player, I'd say he's pretty garentee'd. Not as important as Yao, no. But still. </div> Haha obviously you arn't watching the Lakers this season. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> in pts, rebounds, assists, blocks, ft%, 3% but worse in steals, fg%, turnovers, steals (note: not a great example since Vangundy's system screws with stats) </div> Kobe beats Tmac in 6 stats and Tmac beats him in 3 (you said steals twice) the turnovers, fg% are all caused by Kobe playing pg/sg....if Kobe were to get a good playmaking guard who can handle the ball and play defense both of those would be down. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Up to opinion. In my opinion and the opinion of his former coach, Bryant is an overrated defender. He works hard, but makes poor decisions. I dont think either are great defenders, but no doubt if Mcgrady committed himself to working hard he'd be better at D. He was pretty damn good in his first few years with Toronto. Are you comparing the Lakers to last years Magic? Have you seen the two lineups. Jordan in his prime, might of been able to get them to the playoffs in an 8th seed, but thats it. dont think i ever said he was better but if i did, i feel that if you look at it from an angle also including his personality, Mcgrady is better for the team with many pieces. Bryant just wants to be the team. No. I doubt Bryant would function well with Yao. And i KNOW that Bryant would not enjoy playing Vangundy's system. Then after a while, when they cant coexist anymore cause of Kobe's attitude they'll drop alot of games and playoff series that they should of won. But then again they might, they could play a 1-2 game alot better than Kobe can now, and the Houston role players might benefit from Kobe's hustle. Assuming of course that my first answer were to prove incorrect. I also think though, that the current laker team and certainly the laker team of a year ago would do/ of done better with T-mac rather than Kobe. You cant use situations like that to see if someones better. They are to different scenerios with there own variables. Some players flourish when others flounder, but then a there's a switch of teams and the fortunes reverse. Kobe is a good player, T-Mac is a good player. I'm not going to say who is better, only that i would prefer T-Mac on my team for personality reasons. And thats not saying much, cause T-Mac's bailed on 2 teams now</div> In my opinion I think Kobe has the better attitude...he hussles more...he has a better work ethic...and he could have just left the lakers once shaq/phil left but again all you people for some reason blame him for them leaving and there is absolutley no reason to be blamed for it. Kobe has a passion about it and he has a loyalty to a team and I thnk you summed it up in the last statement you made. TMAC and KOBE have been in the same amoutn of years... Tmac is on his 3rd team...attitude tells you all about it right there. EDIT: I think Kobe would play great with Yao....why...its like Shaq without the Ego and need to score...you get your inside presence and who can score when needed without needing and wanting to be the leader...In my mind would be a perfect match up for what Kobe needs.
Laker fans, beware of the ANTI-KOBE attacks. Ahh, how the TMac fans will strike back again with their flamewars on Kobe Bryant. What I can say is this the HOuston Rockets have been one of the biggest disappointments so far in the Western Conference. All that nonsense coming out of Rockets' fans mouths that TMac and Yao were the second coming of Shaq and Kobe, and that team can't even break the .500 mark? Even though Kobe makes it hard on himself to carry the Lakers, with a hot-cold supporting cast, so far if my logic is correct, the Lakers are still the 7th seeded team for a playoff berth although it's still early. With all of that said, I agree with Brandon that Kobe is under a microscope with the rape allegations and such, but there's no doubt in my mind he should be the #1 two guard without a doubt.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting YugoRocketsfan:</div><div class="quote_post"><strike>You shouldnt call Kobe better than T-mac, cause t-mac never raped a girl, and there is lots of laker hating websites</strike> <font size="1"><font color="Red">Unnecessary comment. Defend McGrady all you want, but keep that issue out of the forums. -Brandon</font></font></div> And these are the days of our lives. Grow up. Kobe never raped a girl either. He is innocent according to the courts. We are in a America buddy. Innocent until PROVEN Guilty. I dont know where your from...
