Does anyone else see the comparisons, besides the obvious being Steve Nash running the point? Both teams maintained impressive records throughout the regular season, but struggled to accumulate victories of any significance. For instance, looking at Phoenix's record against the elite teams amongst their conference, it's not nearly as impressive as the regular season record they boast. Vs. San Antonio (0-1) Vs. Sacramento (0-1) Vs. Minnesota (1-1) I see alot of comparison to the 2002-2003 Dallas Mavericks who won 14 straight games to begin the season, finishing with a record of 60-22 and tying for honors of best record in the NBA. That 02-03 team lead the league in scoring, if memory serves me correctly, at 103 PPG. Their roster looked shockingly similar to The Suns of the present. The Dominance From The Four (PF): Dirk Nowitzki = Amare Stoudemire The Fast Break, Dishing Point Guard: Steve Nash = Steve Nash The Second 20 Point Scoring Option: Shawn Marion = Michael Finley The Guard as The Spark off The Bench: Joe Johnson = Nick Van Exel The Lack of a Presence at Center: Shawn Bradley = Jake Voskuhl The Lack of size up front, the ability to defeat you with "small ball" lineups, the shootout style mentality, the blowout victories, the lack of team, and the list goes on and on. Does this worry any other Suns fans? I personally love The Suns, I spent a considerable amount of time in Tucson and they're franchise grew on me over the years. However, I hate The Dallas Mavericks, and the simple fact that this team draws considerable comparisons towards their former roster, that has had little post season success, scares me.
Interesting point. Of course I'm going to disagree with it. First, they have beaten Miny and Seattle. I personally only consider Seattle a good team right now. T-wolves are in a serious slump. Its too early to say they can't beat elite teams. They have only played San Antonio once and Sac town once. Wait till a few more games to make that type of point. I don't see any comparison between Dirk and Amare. Dirk has a much sweeter outside shot, but Amare is a force to be reckoned with on the inside. Completely different games. Also, Amare is the major difference that will help them in the playoffs. He can play inside and out. Shawn marion is a much better defender and rebounder than Michael finley ever was or is. Of course they both score well. In the west the center position doesn't really matter anymore. The only team with a dominant center is San Antonio. The way the suns play they just try and outscore their opponent. Obviously if the suns are shooting poorly they are going to lose. This will be their biggest opponent---their own shooting percentage. Their game plan is to outscore you. They view every opponent made basket as an opportunity to run down the floor and beat you to the basket. If a defense can't deal with this--the suns will win. There are not many teams that can deal with the suns speed. As I said, be worried if the suns can't beat San Antonio, Sac, or any other west elite during the rest of the regular season (still 3 more games for each teams).
Well first of all I would like to say that aside from the point that they are both power forwards, Dirk is nothing like Amare, they are almost two different players playing the power foward spot. Amare strength is to take it inside and dunk on you while Dirk's strength is to shoot the outside shot and then take it inside a little. The teams are very similer, both teams scoring over 100+ a game, both teams are fast break teams, and both teams are ran by the same point guard. I think the Suns are a better outside shooting team then the 2002 Mavs, I think the Suns are a better defensive team then the 02' Mavs, and the Suns might have better post play then the 02' Mavs. Bottom line is that I think this Suns team is better then the 2002 Mavericks, I think the Suns will have more sucess in the playoffs then the Mavs. Both teams have similer styles but I think the Suns get a clear edge on defence.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The Dominance From The Four (PF): Dirk Nowitzki = Amare Stoudemire The Fast Break, Dishing Point Guard: Steve Nash = Steve Nash The Second 20 Point Scoring Option: Shawn Marion = Michael Finley The Guard as The Spark off The Bench: Joe Johnson = Nick Van Exel The Lack of a Presence at Center: Shawn Bradley = Jake Voskuhl</div> First of all, Amare is playing center, Amare plays nothing like Dirk did back then, Dirk has become more aggressive now and is one of the league leaders in FT attempts, but doesn't play near the same way Amare did. The Mavs had no inside presene, Amare alone is and inside presence for 2 teams in the league. Marion is playing PF, and though he's undersized, he's always been a beast on the board, and is a good defender at the 3, and able to hold it together at the 4 with his athleticism. He also pulls out opposing PF's because of his ability to hit the three and spreads the floor like Dirk would've. Shawn Marion and Finley are nothing alike, Marion can put the ball on the floor better, is 10 times the rebounder, and a much better defender, no comparison except they're both athletic. Joe Johnson is a starter, and Q-Rich would be the one off the benchm, but he's also a starter. Jake Voskuhl has been injured for one, and he doesn't even play, Steven Hunter does, none of the comparison's you made are even apparent, the only one would be having Steve Nash at PG, but the Mavs have better defensive players, and the only similarities after that in both teams is that they both like to run and score a lot. This Suns team is capable of playing good defense at select positions, while that Mavericks team had weak defenders almost everywhere. Nash is still a weak defender, Dirk was weak back then, though improved now. Finley isn't near the defender Marion or Joe Johnson are, and Nick Van Exel was never known for defense. Shawn Bradley was also just a weak giant, and Jake Voskuhl is a banger and harrasing player, who likes to get scrappy.
I wasn't trying to compare Amare and Dirk, I was saying both teams biggest offensive weapon came from their dominance in the four spot. I don't know how that got thrown in there, but I certainly wasn't trying to compare their games because they're night and day in that regard. Who considers Seattle an elite team? Is Danny Fortson going to be posting up for 20 points a night and turning away shots in the playoffs? I doubt it. They have no inside force unless you decide to put Lewis on the block, but that's only against smaller fowards and you certainly couldn't try that against the elite in the west.
Of course you werent trying to compare Dirk and Amare cuz it's no question Dirk and Amare are not the same players. Second of all i do see this similarities but I think that you'll have to give this team a little more serious than our 02-03 team because a lot of their points come from the inside. We lived by the jumper, died by the jumper and were lost whenever that ball was in the key. And the definite athletisism factor is a major boost to Phoenix's favor do to all of those guys can jump. Nash is Nash and that's it. But dont get it twisted our 04-05 team is definitely better all around compared to our team that went to the WCF, cuz of our D. 02-03 Mavs < 04-05 Suns (IMO)
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting jtam101:</div><div class="quote_post">02-03 Mavs > 04-05 Suns</div> hater (..Dirk Sucks[no he really doesn't]). I'm gonn ahve to agree with samoan-maverick. 04-05 Suns > 02-03 Mavs
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting King James X3:</div><div class="quote_post">I wasn't trying to compare Amare and Dirk, I was saying both teams biggest offensive weapon came from their dominance in the four spot. I don't know how that got thrown in there, but I certainly wasn't trying to compare their games because they're night and day in that regard. Who considers Seattle an elite team? Is Danny Fortson going to be posting up for 20 points a night and turning away shots in the playoffs? I doubt it. They have no inside force unless you decide to put Lewis on the block, but that's only against smaller fowards and you certainly couldn't try that against the elite in the west.</div> A team that can beat Miami, San Antonio (twice), Sacramento, Minnesota, Indiana, Dallas, and the lakers are considered an elite team. Sorry if you don't feel this way. Suns are a much better team than the Mavs were. I appreciate your write up because it created a lot of controversy
The point I'm trying to make is their style of play is quite similar. They simply try to outscore you every night, defense isn't really stressed. Dallas was the same way, they cared less about size, they would just play small ball and try to run you out of the gym. In the regular season you may be able to beat the majority of teams in the league in that fashion granted you have enough fire power to do so. However, the TRUE elite teams don't stand for it, especially in the playoffs. Fastbreak teams don't surive because opponents commit to defense before anything else, the same goes for small ball and zone defenses. They've all been tried throughout the regular season and followed by failure when it counted most. As for Seattle, sure they've racked up a few wins against some of the better teams in the NBA, however their style won't last in the playoffs when everything is ran from the half court set. Their defense is still questionable, and you aren't going to beat an elite team in a 7 game series living, and ultimately dying, by the three pointer. It just won't happen...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting King James X3:</div><div class="quote_post">The point I'm trying to make is their style of play is quite similar. They simply try to outscore you every night, defense isn't really stressed. Dallas was the same way, they cared less about size, they would just play small ball and try to run you out of the gym. In the regular season you may be able to beat the majority of teams in the league in that fashion granted you have enough fire power to do so. However, the TRUE elite teams don't stand for it, especially in the playoffs. Fastbreak teams don't surive because opponents commit to defense before anything else, the same goes for small ball and zone defenses. They've all been tried throughout the regular season and followed by failure when it counted most. As for Seattle, sure they've racked up a few wins against some of the better teams in the NBA, however their style won't last in the playoffs when everything is ran from the half court set. Their defense is still questionable, and you aren't going to beat an elite team in a 7 game series living, and ultimately dying, by the three pointer. It just won't happen...</div> I don't understand why everyone assumes that once the playoffs start teams stop runnning. Who ever forces their style of play on the other team is going to win. If seattle is able to keep playing the way they want in the palyoffs its not going to matter what the other team does in their half court offense system. The same goes for the Suns. However, this is pure speculation at this point. Who knows whats going to happen when the suns meet the spurs/kings/wolves? in the playoffs.
Forget this, i'm switching my opinion now. we were better and are better now. this crash and burn crap once nash is gone is horrible. We missed him for a couple of games and Dirk and Finley stepped up. This is a disgrace. Mavs 04-05 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Suns 04-05
