Nash in the West, Lebron in the East right now.. we'll see who can play better in the 2nd half (Nash or LeBron) i think it has to end up as one of the 2, unless Duncan and the Spurs have a way better 2nd half than the Suns.. then he might snatch it away.. it will be interesting
Right now, I'd have to go with LBJ. I like Nash, but I just feel that LBJ contributes so much more for the Cavs. He's the main scorer. He's the playmaker. He hits the glass. Has noticably improved defense, 2nd in the league in steals and nearly a block a game. HE can takeover the game in so many ways. He provides leadership both vocally and by example. Then there are the highlight reel materials where he does something spectacular that gets you off your feet. He's only 20 years old and showing incredible, nearly unfathomable composure for a man his age. In addition, he's leading a team that missed the playoffs to the top of the Atlantic division, the strongest division in the East, that also lost arguably their second best player, Carlos Boozer, to free agency. Gooden is a solid pickup, but he is not nearly the player that Booz was. There hasn't been any other largely significant pickups for the Cavs aside from a few young players to shore up the bench. They don't even have their first-round draft pick, Luke Jackson, who is injured. When you look at the team around LBJ, he has solid players but the talent level is not nearly on par with other teams with similar records. Ira Newble is your starting guard? Finally, he makes the team better. He draws doubles and gets it to the right person. He makes it easier for everyone else. Nash is the close second for me. Aside from LBJ, I don't see anybody else that dictates the success of the team as much as Nash does. He sets the tempo then brings out the best in his teammates. The reason I have him second is because of his defensive shortcomings and the fact that he is surrounded with a world of young talent. The two things that people look at are team's success and individual stats. Both Nash and LBJ have teams experiencing a wealth of success. LBJ, however, looks better overal statistically.
with the season Garnett is having he should be considered whether his team goes 0-82 or 82-0. He is the most consistant player in the league. a guaranteed 15+pts 10+rebs 5+ assists. Duncan doesnt even compare. And nash is great but he isnt the superstar only good for assists and occassionally points. The only other competitor for KG is LeBron hes having a great year.
if it was evident enough before he was out injured, Steve Nash will definatley win MVP, he turned Phoenix around from a dismal season last year to the best team this year, and he's the reason they're winning so much, think otherwise? 6 games lost when he was out injured, comes back, 2 wins and they're rolling again.
LBJ for MVP As bad as the suns were without Nash the Cavs without bron are much worse. No one seems to realize the team now is worse than the team that won 19 games two years ago (that team minus Ricky Davis, D-Miles and Boozer and add Gooden Mcginnis and snow plus an older Z). They are on pace to win 50+ games!! Even last year after they traded Stephon the SUns had a much higher winning percentage than the 2002-2003 Cavs. Plus Amare is much better this year not because of nash because he is still developing physicly and honing his game.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jwohl:</div><div class="quote_post">No one seems to realize the team now is worse than the team that won 19 games two years ago.</div> It was actually 17 games 17-65 in 2002-2003, so even shitter than you thought lol
I agree with you on Lebron, Jwhol. He should get some consideration too for the MVP. When you mention the talent pool for the Cavs, it goes to show you how great Lebron is when he make his teammates better.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jwohl:</div><div class="quote_post">As bad as the suns were without Nash the Cavs without bron are much worse. No one seems to realize the team now is worse than the team that won 19 games two years ago (that team minus Ricky Davis, D-Miles and Boozer and add Gooden Mcginnis and snow plus an older Z). They are on pace to win 50+ games!! Even last year after they traded Stephon the SUns had a much higher winning percentage than the 2002-2003 Cavs. Plus Amare is much better this year not because of nash because he is still developing physicly and honing his game.</div> You should not forget that the Cavaliers of 2002-2003 wanted to lose, they desperately wanted LeBron. It was just sad to see them competing with the Nuggets for the worst winning record and therefore for the first overall Pick of the 2003 Draft. Also don't forget how bad Amare played without Nash at his side during this 4 game stretch where Nash was injured (FT only included to see where he got his points from): Jan 14 vs. Pacers - 26 Points, 10-21 FGM-A, .476 FG%, 6-6 FTM-A (Nash played 11 minutes) Jan 15 vs. Wizards - 26 Points, 9-24 FGM-A, .375 FG%, 8-11 FTM-A Jan 17 vs Pistons - 16 Points, 5-18 FGM-A, .278 FG%, 5-7 FTM-A Jan 19 vs Grizzlies - 8 Points, 4-11 FGM-A, .364 FG%, 0-2 FTM-A Compared to his season averages: 26.1 Points, 9.5-16.6 FGM-A (per game), .574 FG%. And as soon as Nash was back: Jan 21 vs Spurs - 35 Points, 15-19 FGM-A, .789FG%, 5-10 FTM-A Jan 23 vs Nets - 33 Points, 13-16 FGM-A, .813 FG%, 7-11 FTM-A Also during this four game stretch the Suns dropped from averaging 110 Points per game to 86.3 and only recorded an average of 12 Assists per game. I like both players, Nash and LeBron, the same, but I think considering this and other already mentioned arguments, Nash deserves the MVP this year so far over other players.
I'd have a hard time voting for a player who isn't even considered to be the best player at his position. Or is there someone who wants to claim that Nash is the best point in the league? He's exchangable, put another point guard into this team who is fast, knows how to pass the basketball and can make open shots and the Suns will still be that good. Take Duncan, Garnett and James off their respective teams and you won't find any players in this league who could do the same thing for them these guys are doing. Bryants value to the Lakers becomes clearer with every new game right now, teams have figured the Kobe-less Lakers out by now. But he's just not shooting the ball well enough to be considered. Wade has Shaq on his team, that takes him out of contention. Every good player who plays besides Shaq will become a star in this league, Shaq is just that dominating. Shaq himself will not win it because this f'in zone defense and his atrocious free throw shooting hurt him. Right now I'd vote for James, Garnett, Duncan, Shaq and Nash in this order...
Welcome to JBB. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Cypher:</div><div class="quote_post"> I'd have a hard time voting for a player who isn't even considered to be the best player at his position. Or is there someone who wants to claim that Nash is the best point in the league? He's exchangable, put another point guard into this team who is fast, knows how to pass the basketball and can make open shots and the Suns will still be that good. Take Duncan, Garnett and James off their respective teams and you won't find any players in this league who could do the same thing for them these guys are doing. Bryants value to the Lakers becomes clearer with every new game right now, teams have figured the Kobe-less Lakers out by now. But he's just not shooting the ball well enough to be considered. Wade has Shaq on his team, that takes him out of contention. Every good player who plays besides Shaq will become a star in this league, Shaq is just that dominating. Shaq himself will not win it because this f'in zone defense and his atrocious free throw shooting hurt him. Right now I'd vote for James, Garnett, Duncan, Shaq and Nash in this order..</div> I guess Steve might not be the best PG in the league, and even the best PG in the league didn't get the MVP when he really deserved it. But I think, when you talk about the MVP you shouldn't talk about the best player, you should talk about the player who is the most important for his team together with a high winning percentage. And personally, I don't like your idea about changing a player with another similar. Why? Because that's not how it works. Your example with Kobe is the same as mine with Nash. Also I'm sure you could swap Kobe with at least T-Mac and the team would be nearly as good/bad as they are. But I guess LeBron gets the trophy, anyway.
i'd go: 1. Steve Nash: the team with nearly the same core players last year only managed to get 29 wins. This year with Nash, every player has become better and they already have 7 wins more than last season with 36 games to go. Just look at how they did without Steve. 2. Tim Duncan: him and Steve are neck to neck. As long as Tim Duncan is playing, he will always become a candidate for MVP. There are so much players growing around him and becoming better, it is unbelievable. 3. Lebron James: His numbers are phenomenal, and his team is winning. --this is actually the first time in 3 years i never had KG in my top 3. This season was supposed to be the year of the T'Wolves. Right now, KG is coming on to me as someone who cares about his numbers too much--
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting authentiq:</div><div class="quote_post"> --this is actually the first time in 3 years i never had KG in my top 3. This season was supposed to be the year of the T'Wolves. Right now, KG is coming on to me as someone who cares about his numbers too much--</div> I can't agree with you on that. He is as unselfish as he's always been. He seldom tooks the most shots in a game and his 6 ApG are the highest in his career (in 02-02 he also had 6.0 ApG). Show me just one other PF with comparable ApG. He also has been always criticized for being so unselfish and now you come and say he is all of a sudden too selfish. I really don't see why you can say something like that?
Honestly, there really isn't much of a debate (in my eyes) concerning the mvp this season. As we all know, mvp, although an acroymn for most valuable player, is a fusion of most valuable AND most outstanding. The award cannot go to a player (nash)who many feel isn't even the best on his own team. Granted, he's a great player having a career year, and has sparked a remarkable turnaround with his team, but he wasn't the only notable addition from a year ago, and is probably one of the ten worst defensive starting pg's in the league. Never in the leagues history has a player who was considered to be an absolute liability on defense won a mvp. Although Garnett is having his usual fantasy basketball mvp season, his team is doing much worse than it was the year before, taking him out of consideration. Even though he's on the best team in the league and probably the best player in the league, Duncan's having the worst year of his career stat-wise (excluding his rookie season, and even that is debatable) which takes his name out the hat. True, you cannot use only stats, or historical perspectives, or team records as your basis for choosing an mvp, but when you have a candidate that raises the level of play on everyone on their team, has a winning record, isnt a liability in any facet of the game, and is having a career season with an outside possibility of end season averages that only two players EVER have accomplished (25, 8, and 8...mj and the big o) there really is no debate about who is the nba's most valuable player this season. (if that argument didnt sway you:...ira newble and jeff mcginnis are starting on this team and they're still playing above 600 ball...they replaced a dream-teamer with a player thats already been traded 3 times in 4 nba seasons, and theyre still playing above 600 ball)
Lbj <div class="quote_poster">Quoting JKiDD05NeTs:</div><div class="quote_post">Either between Tim Duncan or Steve Nash. No way Amare gets it because Steve Nash is really that team. Without him they don't run. If the Suns can't run they can't win. I'm leaning towards Tim Duncan just because Steve Nash is basically having the same season JKidd had his first year with the Nets and Duncan still got the MVP.</div> How can you not even mention LeBron?
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I can't agree with you on that. He is as unselfish as he's always been. He seldom tooks the most shots in a game and his 6 ApG are the highest in his career (in 02-02 he also had 6.0 ApG). Show me just one other PF with comparable ApG. He also has been always criticized for being so unselfish and now you come and say he is all of a sudden too selfish. I really don't see why you can say something like that?</div> i don't mean just his PPG though. I mean his overall numbers like his rebounding and his assist numbers, there's no way i'm saying he's too selfish. [/QUOTE]I'm going to keep it short: it's Nash and it's not even close.
^Then give me an example or anything which made you think that? He wants to win a championship as desperately as last year. And why should he play only for his numbers? He's got a long-term contract, he won an MVP last year and without a winning team you don't get it anyway. Hm, no I don't see any other reason than that. You might mistake him for Sprewell, I think he is the one on that team who plays for his numbers rather than for the team because he is in his contract year
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting authentiq:</div><div class="quote_post">not even close? so guys like Lebron and Duncan haven't done squat? pshh..</div>When I look at MVP, I look to see who has turned around a team and has been the heart and soul behind it. That's why I have Nash first, Shaq second, and Duncan third.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Coranor:</div><div class="quote_post">Welcome to JBB. I guess Steve might not be the best PG in the league, and even the best PG in the league didn't get the MVP when he really deserved it. But I think, when you talk about the MVP you shouldn't talk about the best player, you should talk about the player who is the most important for his team together with a high winning percentage. And personally, I don't like your idea about changing a player with another similar. Why? Because that's not how it works. Your example with Kobe is the same as mine with Nash. Also I'm sure you could swap Kobe with at least T-Mac and the team would be nearly as good/bad as they are. But I guess LeBron gets the trophy, anyway.</div> Let me make a (maybe stupid) comparison. Look at the Phoenix lineup without Nash. Johnson, Richardson, Marion and Stoudemire. That's like a 500hp car with no tyres. Now consider Nash to be the tyres. A 500hp car will be damn fast no matter what tyres you're going to equip it with. Of course it's going to be even faster with a good set of wheels, but it'll run well with cheap ones too. That's how I see the Suns now. This team is pure dynamite, even without Nash. He's just the sparkplug it needed to get these guys going. And that's why I think he can't be MVP. I guess a lot of players could have been that sparkplug. Take a good point guard who can lead a running team and you get a very similar result. The key here is the quantity of players who are available who could have done that for the Suns. And you're right. Put McGrady on the Lakers team and they'll still be as good or bad as they are. But how many players besided McGrady are there who would fit into that scheme. Maybe Lebron, but that's it (at least for this positon). Take Nash out of Phoenix' lineup and you could probably exchange him with at least seven or eight players and the outcome would have been nearly the same. Marbury, Bibby, maybe even guys like Parker or Jason Williams could have delivered similar things for them.
