Okay, the season is half way thru, and we've had a good look at these new Lakers. Lets for a minute take our minds off the current struggles and look towards the future. Some questions have been answered (not all favorably), and decisions will have to be made accordingly .... This topic will discuss the future of the Small Foward position. Butler currently holds the position, and he appears to be bonding with Kobe. He's only 24 years old and his future looks promising. Next season will be his contract season, so the Lakers may have to make a decision on him after this season (extension or trade). However, Odom appears as though he's not the answer at the 4. He may be better suited at the 3 in the West. He's got a long-term deal, so the Lakers would have to trade him if they feel he's not a fit (and take back another large contract). He's argubly more talented than Butler, and definitely more versatile. So the dilemma is presented. Long-term, do the Lakers go with Butler or Odom at the 3? If they go with one, what should they do with the other? Or should they stay persistent with Odom at the 4? Should this issue be addressed this off-season or put off?
This is a great question NMG, but I don't think the Lakers need to choose keeping one over the other. It's going to take more than half a season for the team to come together and work effectively. So far Caron Butler has been a better mix with Kobe Bryant, but there were also less expectations for him when he joined the team. The Lakers have yet to play with a healthy roster and it has set them back with their plans. When Butler becomes a free agent, I expect him to be re-signed for Manu Ginobili type money. They will have the cap room because Devean George, Vlade Divac, and Chucky Atkins all have expiring contracts the same year. The big question mark at this point is Lamar Odom. He's taken a step backward from last year with the Heat, but he's shown flashes of what he's capable of. I think the trio of Kobe-Butler-Odom is enough for the Lakers to compete at a high level. The key is going to be filling the team with role players to fill the holes. The Lakers are a soft team and have no defensive stoppers. They could also use an enforcer in the paint, because Brian Grant cannot bring it in back to back games. Coming into this blockbuster trade with Shaq, I told myself as a Laker fan, it's going to be a 3 year building process before they become contenders again. So far they are playing about where everyone expected them to be, which is a little above .500 basketball. In all fairness it's really to early to judge the Lakers and to think about any drastic changes, especially trading Odom. Both Kobe and Odom have long term deals, so the Lakers should be in no rush to give up on Odom already.
Well, I bring it up because I have my doubts with Odom at the 4. I don't question whether Odom can adjust to playing with Kobe on the offensive end. I think that will come in time. What I'm concerned about is on the defensive end, where the Lakers are lacking any sort of inside presense. Odom does a nice job of getting on the defensive glass. However, he poses no threat in the paint, and he's been picking up fouls in bunches lately. I think inevitably, the Lakers will have to pick one over the other. Maybe not yet, but I think the time will come eventually IMO
Its a tough one, But the way Kobe mixes with bout iwould have to go with Caron they fit together Caron has great D so does Kobe. Caron and Kobe would be a great tandem. We should trade Lamar for a PF or a C.
I would rather have Caron. Kobe and Caron have bonded, they have a great friendship. Kobe has taken Caron under his wing and is teaching him the game, as for Odom...he doesn't seem to get along well with Kobe. He has regressed from last season, he isn't what we thought we traded for. If this is a sign of what the future will be like, I would much rather have Caron.
Regressed? If he had the ball more often, than maybe he would be able to put it into the hoop. Last year in Miami, Odom was the man. He controled the action, and had the ball in his hands a lot more (D-Wade was the only one who also handled the ball much). Kobe overdominates the ball, that makes it hard for him to show much of his game. His shot attempts a game this year are way down. Lamar was close to breaking out this year, and I think if he was still in Miami he would have been an all-star for sure. Now, he is destined to rot in Kobe's enormous ego...err...I mean shadow.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheMegaGreg:</div><div class="quote_post">Regressed? If he had the ball more often, than maybe he would be able to put it into the hoop. Last year in Miami, Odom was the man. He controled the action, and had the ball in his hands a lot more (D-Wade was the only one who also handled the ball much). Kobe overdominates the ball, that makes it hard for him to show much of his game. His shot attempts a game this year are way down. Lamar was close to breaking out this year, and I think if he was still in Miami he would have been an all-star for sure. Now, he is destined to rot in Kobe's enormous ego...err...I mean shadow.</div> Well he sure hasn't been "the Man" since Kobe got injured and Odom became the primary option. In fact he's been terrible in these games, against some of the weaker teams in the league. Kobe over dominates the ball? Nothing could be further from the truth. Kobe tries to get his teammates involved early in games and he kicks out of double and triple teams. He's averaging 6.6 APG and is only attempting 2 more shots per game than last year. Quite often his teammates miss those wide open looks, so Kobe isn't credited with more assists. Kobe's role on the team is to score and close games out, and he's great at it. In fact I'd argue he's the best in the game at it. Kobe was able to play alongside Shaq, and both thrived. Shaq averaged around 27ppg with Kobe, so the argument that Odom is getting less opportunity is no fault, but his own. Odom hasn't adjusted to his new teammates, and he's also playing in a tougher Conference this season. Odom was devestated when he was traded back to the city he had so many problems with early in his career. I don't think he's gotten over that yet, and hasn't acclamated to his new environment and role. You cannot pin any of this on Kobe, in fact, Butler, Odom, and Mihm were all shooting better from the field from last year when they played with Kobe.
You know who would work good with Kobe, their contract is up next season. I'd hate to say it but i dont know if we'll be able to keep him. Josh Howard. He can be the Pippen, that you want, he play's great defense and he goes for every board he can score and he doesnt demand the ball like Crybaby Odom and Butler. If they dont get the ball their not affective.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting samoan-maverick:</div><div class="quote_post">You know who would work good with Kobe, their contract is up next season. I'd hate to say it but i dont know if we'll be able to keep him. Josh Howard. He can be the Pippen, that you want, he play's great defense and he goes for every board he can score and he doesnt demand the ball like Crybaby Odom and Butler. If they dont get the ball their not affective.</div> What are you talking about cry baby Caron? He hasn't complained once about not getting the ball..get your facts straight...and how 14 points per game not effective when you are the third option on a team?
Lamar Odom is pretty obviously overmatched at the 4 in the West. He gets himself into foul trouble too much, he can't contain other power forwards around here and he needs to dominate the ball to be effective on offense. Given the right situation I think that Odom will be the far superior player to Caron. Odom is more versatile, gives other teams mismatches when he plays the 3. But that all requires him to play small forward, not power forward. But the Lakers can't play him at small forward, we got no other good players who could handle the 4 and too many good 3's. So switching him to small forward won't be possible, even when we trade Caron we'd still have George, JJ and Walton behind him. And letting these players sit for 40 minutes would be wasted talent. Now, can the Lakers get a good power forward either in trade for Caron Butler or via free agency? I seriously doubt that. Can they get one for Lamar Odom? Yes, I think so. I think the Lakers will be better off with trading Lamar to another team in exchange for a solid power forward who crashes the boards and defends well. That player doesn't even need to be a great offensive player, we got enough firepower on offense with Kobe. And with Odom not on that team Caron could easily evolve as the 2nd option on offense.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Kobe 8 Ball:</div><div class="quote_post">What are you talking about cry baby Caron? He hasn't complained once about not getting the ball..get your facts straight...and how 14 points per game not effective when you are the third option on a team?</div> I said "Crybaby Odom". I can see when he plays that he'll give up the ball just to give it up some time's w/ Kobe. I never said anything about Caron crying, but he just needs the ball more to be affective. All he does is watch Kobe do his thing and then wait for the ball, that sucks for a player with Caron's capability. He's my favorite Laker player Kobe8ball. So calm down.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Zoltar:</div><div class="quote_post">How bout this PG:Kobe SG:Caron SF:Odom get a good PF and C</div> Negative. We have already seen Kobe's shot struggles and he tires when he runs the point, he has been doing that basically all year because Atkins hasn't been a true pg. If Atkins can be a true pg then we would win more games and Kobe's would be more efficient and his FG% would go up.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Kobe 8 Ball:</div><div class="quote_post">Negative. We have already seen Kobe's shot struggles and he tires when he runs the point, he has been doing that basically all year because Atkins hasn't been a true pg. If Atkins can be a true pg then we would win more games and Kobe's would be more efficient and his FG% would go up.</div> how about this How bout this PG:Odom SG:Bryant SF:Caron get a good PF and C
Kobe has stated that he wants Lamar to run the ball handling, I think the Lakers could try a couple of games with Lamar at the point, see how things work out...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting micchy_boy:</div><div class="quote_post">how about this How bout this PG:Odom SG:Bryant SF:Caron get a good PF and C </div> The problem with Odom at the 4 is more of a defensive problem than anything. If we shift Odom to the 3, he'll be able to defend his position better. However, that would mean Butler would be the odd man out. If we play all three guys at 1-2-3 positions (like yours and Zoltar's suggestion), then that would mean either Butler or Kobe would have to guard the opposing point guards. While that may work on certain stretches of games, asking them to chase around little guards for 40 minutes a night may not be ideal. Additionally, neither Kobe or Butler can guard the Tony Parker's and Steve Nash's of the West . The point is the Lakers would essientially be shifting their front court defensive problems into the backcourt. Either way, there are still defensive problems.
