<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">But Martynas is probably gone before we choose, too. Wow, I didn't realize you didn't like Green that much! Why would we draft another PG? Green can be a lock down defender in the NBA and can turn out to be a superstar and "the next big thing."</div> Martynas wont be gone before Splitter unless the Blazers(or Jazz) decide to draft him. He's more raw than people thought. He is about five or even six years away from making a big impact in the NBA. I dont want to draft a high school kid especially if it's a guard or small forward. Green is years away from contributing and it's very likely he could be a miserable failure. In addition we need some size badly!! No wait, we need quality size. And the best way to get it is through the lottery. Green could very well be a great small forward but great big men are much harder to find. There are other small forwards in this draft that are less of a risk and will be good players. Danny Granger, Mikael Gelabale are my two favorite small fowards in this draft. Both play defense, athletic and versatile. I dont know where this obsession over Green came from. I said it before and I'll say it again: There is no need for Mr. Green! I said trade our draft pick for a midrange first rounder and their 2006 first rounder. We draft Roko so we can trade Marbury. And the 2006 pick is to give us a chance at Uros Tripokovich. Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.
Thanks, H20. I actually think Martynas will slip for some reason, much like Pavel Podkolzine slipped last draft. Zyldrunas Illgauskus was taken at #20 back in 96, so he might be taken slightly higher than that given that the projected depth of the upcoming draft so far is kind of mediocre, especially for big men. The 96 draft had tons of stars or players with potential, especially big men, and guess who the Warriors drafted? Todd F-ing Fuller! Anyway, at least New York doesn't have GM Dave Twardzick and the guy who got choked by Spreewell as GMs. Your starting 5 would then have been: pg: Moochie Norris sg: Shanden Anderson sf: Tim Thomas pf: Kurt Thomas c: Mengke Bateer or Bruno Sundov
Martynas will slip because teams are tired of using their lottery picks on young, unproven international players who are years from contributing. But he's not dropping out of the lottery. That is certain. You think this draft is mediocre?? I disagree. Granted there doesnt appear to be any Tim Duncans in it or Garnetts but it's full of guys who will be very solid in the future. Very deep draft if you ask me. As for the Warriors drafting Fuller...at the time it looked like a solid move. It's easy to look back and say how terrible it was. But I wasnt paying attention to that draft to be honest. The Knicks were a playoff team so there was no need for me to care who we drafted. Be happy that your team isnt making 100 million dollars and in the lottery. Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">Martynas will slip because teams are tired of using their lottery picks on young, unproven international players who are years from contributing. But he's not dropping out of the lottery. That is certain.</div> Yeah, there is an outside chance that we can pick him up. But he's years from contributing. We'd have to do the Darko thing with him. I don't know if I'm willing to wait till I get my masters degree before he gets minutes (I'm not done with high schoo yetl!). <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You think this draft is mediocre?? I disagree. Granted there doesnt appear to be any Tim Duncans in it or Garnetts but it's full of guys who will be very solid in the future. Very deep draft if you ask me. As for the Warriors drafting Fuller...at the time it looked like a solid move. It's easy to look back and say how terrible it was. But I wasnt paying attention to that draft to be honest. The Knicks were a playoff team so there was no need for me to care who we drafted.</div> It's a pretty bad year for us to suck though. No sure fire big men in the draft. Splitter is cool, but I don't know if we can put him at center right away. Splitter gets backed down too easily by guys in Europe, so imagine in the NBA! The good thing is he is a 7 footer with outstanding athleticism, but can playing him out of position at an early age stunt his growth?
Tribute, there's a chance that Splitter might take his name out if he doesn't think he's a sure fire top 5 pick. You'd trade down?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah, there is an outside chance that we can pick him up. But he's years from contributing. We'd have to do the Darko thing with him. I don't know if I'm willing to wait till I get my masters degree before he gets minutes (I'm not done with high schoo yetl!). It's a pretty bad year for us to suck though. No sure fire big men in the draft. Splitter is cool, but I don't know if we can put him at center right away. Splitter gets backed down too easily by guys in Europe, so imagine in the NBA! The good thing is he is a 7 footer with outstanding athleticism, but can playing him out of position at an early age stunt his growth?</div> If we do pick up Martynas we wont Darko him. We'll leave him with Sabonis so he can develop in Europe(Sabonis is the man). I'm not about to pay that kid just so he can sit at the end of the bench and do nothing. And you wont have to wait until you get you master's before he makes an impact. You'll only have to wait until your bachelor's and believe me that's sooner than you think. No it cant stunt his growth. If anything it'll force him to play with more aggression and encourage him to get stronger. He's a little weak for the position right now but what about next year and the year after that when he gets stronger? You cant just think about next year, you have to think three to four years down the line when you're drafting someone. Splitter needs to get drafted high so he can buyout his contract. As long as he goes in the top eight I think he'll stay. And yes if I cant pick up Splitter I'd trade down. Maybe for a mid first rounder and a second rounder or a mid first rounder and a young developing player. Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">If we do pick up Martynas we wont Darko him. We'll leave him with Sabonis so he can develop in Europe(Sabonis is the man). I'm not about to pay that kid just so he can sit at the end of the bench and do nothing. And you wont have to wait until you get you master's before he makes an impact. You'll only have to wait until your bachelor's and believe me that's sooner than you think.</div> That will definitely help him because he?s working out with Sabonis. He can also work with Aguirre too which is a plus. But what if he turns out to be a bust? We would have wasted our pick and waited for many years to see that. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">No it cant stunt his growth. If anything it'll force him to play with more aggression and encourage him to get stronger. He's a little weak for the position right now but what about next year and the year after that when he gets stronger? You cant just think about next year, you have to think three to four years down the line when you're drafting someone. Splitter needs to get drafted high so he can buyout his contract. As long as he goes in the top eight I think he'll stay. And yes if I cant pick up Splitter I'd trade down. Maybe for a mid first rounder and a second rounder or a mid first rounder and a young developing player.</div> But Splitter is really skinny and very weak for the center position. Bosh is also athletic and skinny and he got murdered playing center. In other news, the Knicks worked out Julius Hodge and Hakim Warrick today: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">GREENBURGH, NY, May 5, 2005 -- Time after time, Knicks President, Basketball Operations Isiah Thomas expresses an open admiration for versatility. And the first thing that comes into hoop insiders? minds when thinking of Julius Hodge and Hakim Warrick -- the duo of topnotch talents who worked out for the team on Thursday at the Knicks? Madison Square Garden Training Center -- has to be ?versatile?. ?I think I am mainly a point guard in the NBA,? the 6-8 Hodge, who played FOUR positions regularly at N.C. State, said. ?Or maybe a ?two?. Either way, I know how to run a team. Let?s put it this way, I want to be known as a guy who does whatever it takes -- and plays whatever position -- to help his team win.? </div> Knicks.com
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">That will definitely help him because he?s working out with Sabonis. He can also work with Aguirre too which is a plus. But what if he turns out to be a bust? We would have wasted our pick and waited for many years to see that. But Splitter is really skinny and very weak for the center position. Bosh is also athletic and skinny and he got murdered playing center. In other news, the Knicks worked out Julius Hodge and Hakim Warrick today: Knicks.com</div> Well you cant live the dream if you dont play the game. The difference between Splitter and Bosh is that Splitter has the body to put add on more weight and muscle without it having a negative impact on his game. He'll just add on muscle in the offseason. And why am I not surprised that Isiah worked out Hodge and Warrick? Hodge is another guard that we dont need unless he'll play behind Marbury. But I'd still rather have Frank Williams or even keep Jermaine Jackson. Then there's the athletic freak Warrick who is going to play small forward in the NBA but has no real small forward skills to speak of. Whenever I think of Warrick I think of Swift. Does anyone else get that impression? Why are we wasting our time with these two guys? I want to work out Lucas Tischer. That's somebody we need to take a good long look at. Not another guard or skill lacking athlete. Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">Well you cant live the dream if you dont play the game.</div> The thing about Martynas is he is incredibly raw and perhaps the rawest player in the entire draft. He is struggling to get minutes overseas due to his rawness so imagine here. I know, we can leave him overseas and he can practice with Sabonis, but there?s no telling what he can turn out to be. The only reason he?s in the lottery is because he is drenched with the ?P? word, but just like most players, he has the capability of being a huge bust. Even if he does reach his full potential, will it really be worth the wait? I mean if he does turn into a decent player, would it be worth all the wait? I mean calling him the next Sabonis is a stretch and Sabonis was better at his age. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The difference between Splitter and Bosh is that Splitter has the body to put add on more weight and muscle without it having a negative impact on his game. He'll just add on muscle in the offseason.</div> Yes, but the same was said about Gasol. He has been working intensely on weights, but he still hasn?t had great results. What if Splitter?s body just doesn?t hold on to weight? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And why am I not surprised that Isiah worked out Hodge and Warrick? Hodge is another guard that we dont need unless he'll play behind Marbury. But I'd still rather have Frank Williams or even keep Jermaine Jackson. Then there's the athletic freak Warrick who is going to play small forward in the NBA but has no real small forward skills to speak of. Whenever I think of Warrick I think of Swift. Does anyone else get that impression? Why are we wasting our time with these two guys? I want to work out Lucas Tischer. That's somebody we need to take a good long look at. Not another guard or skill lacking athlete.</div> I think Isiah is looking at those players with our later picks. Hodge is like Penny Hardaway in the way they can play point forward. He is a good player and can play behind Marbury too. Warrick is a player I agree with you on. He does remind me of Swift. I wouldn?t draft him with our lottery pick, but with our later pick I would. For some reason he has been looking impressive in the workouts and word has it he could sneak his way into the lottery.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">The thing about Martynas is he is incredibly raw and perhaps the rawest player in the entire draft. He is struggling to get minutes overseas due to his rawness so imagine here. I know, we can leave him overseas and he can practice with Sabonis, but there?s no telling what he can turn out to be. The only reason he?s in the lottery is because he is drenched with the ?P? word, but just like most players, he has the capability of being a huge bust. Even if he does reach his full potential, will it really be worth the wait? I mean if he does turn into a decent player, would it be worth all the wait? I mean calling him the next Sabonis is a stretch and Sabonis was better at his age. Yes, but the same was said about Gasol. He has been working intensely on weights, but he still hasn?t had great results. What if Splitter?s body just doesn?t hold on to weight? I think Isiah is looking at those players with our later picks. Hodge is like Penny Hardaway in the way they can play point forward. He is a good player and can play behind Marbury too. Warrick is a player I agree with you on. He does remind me of Swift. I wouldn?t draft him with our lottery pick, but with our later pick I would. For some reason he has been looking impressive in the workouts and word has it he could sneak his way into the lottery.</div> Martynas is extremely raw without question. And you're right the only reason why he's projected so high is because of the P word. And you're right that he might not even live up to his full potential. But like I said, "You cant live the dream if you dont play the game." He could be the jackpot or a waste of time. But make no mistake if he is the jackpot he will certainly be worth the wait. By the way Sabonis was old by the time he came over to the States(at least I think he was). He was not nearly as young as Martynas Pau Gasol is an All Star calibur powerforward. He already has the muscle to bang with powerforwards. What more do you want? And I dont know if people were saying the same thing about Pau Gasol(cool name isnt it?) All I know is every report I read on him says he can easily put on pounds. I dont care too much for Hodge. I'd rather use our later pick on Ryan Gomes or a whole bunch of other players like Katelynas(think that's how you spell it). As for Warrick...there's always at least one player every single draft who works his way into the lottery because of good workouts even though he has no business being there. Again I say there's a whole bunch of players I'd rather use the pick on than Warrick. Ronny Turiaf comes to mind. Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.
Relax Guys! <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Chris Taft has been holding numerous private workouts over the past week in a gym in New York City, taking advantage of the fact that many of the NBA decision makers were in town for the draft lottery. DraftCity has spoken to a couple of people who watched him in those workouts, and the feedback has been almost unanimous: he?s incredibly overrated. </div> Draftcity
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">Yup. His stock is going straight to Hell. Think we should use the 30th pick to grab him?</div> Yeah, I'd take him. Hopefully being drafted so low can stir up some motivation in him.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">Yup. His stock is going straight to Hell. Think we should use the 30th pick to grab him?</div> SCREW LAZYBONES
The latest word has it that Antoine Wright's stock is skyrocketing, potentially to the Raptors at #7. How would you guys feel about getting Wright at #8? And what would you do if Wright went #7 and you had Granger, Webster, Vazquez, Splitter, Andriuskevicius (if he stays), Warrick, Graham, and Villanueva all left in the field?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">The latest word has it that Antoine Wright's stock is skyrocketing, potentially to the Raptors at #7. How would you guys feel about getting Wright at #8? And what would you do if Wright went #7 and you had Granger, Webster, Vazquez, Splitter, Andriuskevicius (if he stays), Warrick, Graham, and Villanueva all left in the field?</div> I've been hearing the same thing, but I thought Toronto was sold on Granger. If Toronto took Wright, it would be tough choosing between Webster and Granger, but ultimately on draft night, I see myself taking Granger because he's simply a solid all-around ready to contribute more and is the less risky player. Those big guys are too risky for me.
What the hell is up with you and Granger MrJ??? You do realize any good big man is worth a lot more than a good small forward dont you??? I dont understand how you can want to draft Granger! It makes no sense!! The only thing Granger will do is siphon off minutes from Ariza and potentially slow down his development. Tiago Splitter is a legitimate seven footer and we all know size is at a premium these days. He has a very promising future and even addresses our present needs. The first thing a person would say about the Knicks after they finished watching them is "damn they need some size, 6'9" centers just arent going to cut it". They would also say "hmm they could really use some shot blocking in the paint...". You cant get far in this league without a good big man and they are simply too hard to find. Good small forwards are everywhere. Then there's the fact that Kurt Thomas is very good trade bait and we will need someone to replace him if/when we trade him. Mikael Gelabale is very similar to Granger, has played at a higher level of competition(if you cant realize that the Euroleague is superior to the NCAA...I simply dont know what to say, it's as obvious as the color of the sky), and comes cheaper to boot(30th pick as opposed to the 8th pick). You say you like Granger because he's ready to contribute now so is Splitter and Splitter will contribute where we need contributing the most. Splitter is the answer to a good deal of our problems and Granger isnt. We can get a small forward that can rebound, defend and hit the open jumper anywhere like at the 30th pick. And there is absolutely nothing that hints that Granger is less risky than Tiago Splitter. Nothing! You're just making stuff up to try to bolster your argument. By the way Martell Webster has no business being in the lottery. None whatsoever. Period. Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.
Euroleague better than NCAA? Name me one Euroleague team that could have beaten North Carolina, Michigan State, Duke, or Illinois this year. You can't. Gelabale isn't that hot in Euroleague play either. He only averages 8.1 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 1.1 apg, and less than 1 bpg and spg in 24 mpg. In fact, the two leading scorers on Real Madrid are two former mid-rate college players, Elmer Bennett and Louis Bullock. Not exactly comparable to North Carolina with Raymond Felton and Marvin Williams or Michigan State with Maurice Ager and Shannon Brown. On the other hand you have Danny Granger, who recorded 18.8 ppg, 8.9 rpg, 2.4 apg, 2.1 spg, and 2.0 bpg with a 43% 3pt shot in 30 mpg. I want you to specifically notice his spg and bpg, possibly the two most underrated stats in all of basketball. I may be wrong, but I believe Granger was the only player in the nation to average over 2+ spg and 2+ bpg. If not the only one, he was one of only two or three. That's a testament to what a great defensive player he is. I mean, just look at those stats. What is he not good at? He's the well-rounded Small Forward scouts dream of; scoring in every way possible, a good rebounder, a nice passing game, world-class defense. Don't bring up the fact that he played on New Mexico either, because his best games of the year came against Wake Forest (24 pts, 9 rbs, 3 rbs, 3 stl), a top 5 team, and Utah (28 pts, 11 rbs), a top 15 team. I just don't see where anyone would think Gelabale is on Granger's level, nor the Euroleague on the NCAA's for that matter. By the way, it looks likely that Tiago Splitter is pulling out, so this is all a mood point.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">Euroleague better than NCAA? Name me one Euroleague team that could have beaten North Carolina, Michigan State, Duke, or Illinois this year. You can't. Gelabale isn't that hot in Euroleague play either. He only averages 8.1 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 1.1 apg, and less than 1 bpg and spg in 24 mpg. In fact, the two leading scorers on Real Madrid are two former mid-rate college players, Elmer Bennett and Louis Bullock. Not exactly comparable to North Carolina with Raymond Felton and Marvin Williams or Michigan State with Maurice Ager and Shannon Brown. On the other hand you have Danny Granger, who recorded 18.8 ppg, 8.9 rpg, 2.4 apg, 2.1 spg, and 2.0 bpg with a 43% 3pt shot in 30 mpg. I want you to specifically notice his spg and bpg, possibly the two most underrated stats in all of basketball. I may be wrong, but I believe Granger was the only player in the nation to average over 2+ spg and 2+ bpg. If not the only one, he was one of only two or three. That's a testament to what a great defensive player he is. I mean, just look at those stats. What is he not good at? He's the well-rounded Small Forward scouts dream of; scoring in every way possible, a good rebounder, a nice passing game, world-class defense. Don't bring up the fact that he played on New Mexico either, because his best games of the year came against Wake Forest (24 pts, 9 rbs, 3 rbs, 3 stl), a top 5 team, and Utah (28 pts, 11 rbs), a top 15 team. I just don't see where anyone would think Gelabale is on Granger's level, nor the Euroleague on the NCAA's for that matter. By the way, it looks likely that Tiago Splitter is pulling out, so this is all a mood point.</div> I responded to this post and something happened and my post didnt show. I'm very angry right now. I'll just give you the gist of what I said since it's kind of late. Macabbi Tel Aviv would beat all of those teams you just named. And it probably wouldnt even be close. Stats dont mean much when talking about International prospects. Tiago Splitter is probably the best powerforward prospect in the draft and his stats arent hot either. Who cares if the leading scorers for Real Madrid were former mid-rate college players. There have been players who went undrafted and became quite good(Ben Wallace, Brad Miller). I had this nice, long, detailed response to those stats you brought up...Granger's stats are impressive compared to Gelabale's but that is misleading. Gelabale wasnt the main offensive reference on his team unlike Granger. So he didnt have as many chances to score. Who knows how well Gelabale would have done if he had the green light like Granger had? I simply think Gelabale at the 30th pick is more reasonable than Granger at the 8th pick especially considering we have more serious issues in our frontline. Gelabale looks like he's capable of doing everything Granger can do minus the passing with a little worse defense. Euroleague is definetely better than NCAA. Think of it this way: Tiago Splitter and Fran Vazquez are widely considered to be the best powerforwards in this draft. Equal to or better than the NCAA big men who are the best big men the NCAA had to offer this year and their just role players on their respective teams(although Splitter could do much more he's being used as a role player for now). Hope that helps. Tiago Splitter will probably pull out if he doesnt get a top ten guarantee and I'm pretty sure someone will give it to him. If he does indeed pull out I'd probably like to have Johan Petro. We need a center. He's a little risky(not Taft risky but he's no sure thing like Splitter or Vazquez) but he's oozing with potential. Now I hope this gets posted... Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.
